Hearthpwn

The idea of a card that is either a minion or a minion enchantment is a great one! It offers flexibility like Discover, prevents dead cards in your hand, and generally encourages more in-game decision-making. Therefore, the idea of the Magnetic keyword has a lot going for it!

The problem is that Magnetic is limited to the mech tribe, arbitrarily restricting the design space for use of this keyword mechanic in future expansions. We saw this problem before, after GvG, the mech tribe received little support. If that happens again, this would be Blizzard introducing a new keyword with limited use, and Blizzard has said that they want to limit the number of keyword mechanics to keep the game accessible (I'm looking at you, Enrage).

Here is a simple proposal to improve the mechanic: Call it "Fuse" and have it always specify a tribe (or tribes). For example, this is how the card text of the new card, Spider Bomb would read: 

Fuse: Mech

Deathrattle: Destroy a random enemy minion.

This would allow for many more interesting card interactions. Sure, some could be problematic. Don't print them!

What are your thoughts on Magnetic? Do you have a better idea to improve it?

It has to make sense.

Mech was obvious choice for fusion.

But what can fuse with any beast or stand as a minion on its own?

Or Dragons?

The only possible non-mech target would be Elementals, and even then, it would be weird.

I personally think magnetic is more thematically appropriate than fuse. There is almost nothing that would make sense fusing. Oozes maybe. It is perfectly fine to have keywords contained to a single set. Recruit was contained to one set, echo is probably contained to one set. Magnetic should be no different. You can get a little crazier with expansion keywords than base set keywords too. Aside from that, I am completely in favor of giving each tribe their own unique mechanic. Mechs and murlocs are kind of boring in that way. Dragons have hand mechanics, elementals have played the turn before mechanic. I think having something like that for each tribe makes each tribe cooler.

The way they handled magnetic tells me they are not planning to using it outside of the set. Which is fine, it makes them have to come up with the next cool mechanic.

I like the idea of expanding the design space, but I also believe that limitations breed creativity.  Having this only work for Mechs adds a little unique identity to the Tribe, lends itself to taking a look at old Mechs in Wild, and has a nice Flavor to it: robots that can be grafted together. 

Your idea is a good one, but I believe I prefer Magnetic as it stands. 

I get where your coming from that it should just apply to whatever tribe tag is on the card.

However, it's about the theme of the expansion and if Magnetic cards are overall good or better then they will always have a place in wild after rotation and that's okay because it makes way for new cards in standard. I think its limited to just the mech trove not just for flavour but to keep design space open too.

Personally I love magnetic, it's a great mechanic and I look forward to see the rest of the cards for this Key word.im guessing we'll see quite a few neutral mechanical this expansion to support the class cards.

You are quibbling with the Keyword name, not the concept. We already have Zombeasts, which are essentially all that Magnetic is: fusing two minions together. How about Stitch or Combine? Of course, the minions could be tribe-appropriate, e.g. a minion called "Dragon Rider" that could be played stand-alone or you could mount it to a dragon through Fuse/Combine.

I also like the idea of keeping to a theme of the expansion, Skyi and BrokenCycle. I just don't see that tying a keyword to an expansion is the way to do that (think of how many keywords there would be if every expansion had a new keyword, and recall that calls for more discover cards are basically universal. The fact that the keyword was introduced with LoE should not prevent this. Only releasing Mechs with "Combine" this expansion would do just that, but allow them to return to elementals, dragons, etc. 

Yeah, now *combine* is much better, and the dragon rider example fits very well. Yet, for example, what about a big bad orc rider on a... Dragon whelp? See, it is problematic.

Also, zombeast is a special undead beast. "Born" that way, from two corpses. You can't combine two living beasts, one of which is already on board, because it makes very little sense.

With mechs you have no such worries.

I think the idea of an orc rider on a dragon whelp is hilarious and consistent with the levity of Hearthstone! :)

Quote from BrokenCycle >>

I personally think magnetic is more thematically appropriate than fuse. There is almost nothing that would make sense fusing. Oozes maybe. It is perfectly fine to have keywords contained to a single set. Recruit was contained to one set, echo is probably contained to one set. Magnetic should be no different. You can get a little crazier with expansion keywords than base set keywords too. Aside from that, I am completely in favor of giving each tribe their own unique mechanic. Mechs and murlocs are kind of boring in that way. Dragons have hand mechanics, elementals have played the turn before mechanic. I think having something like that for each tribe makes each tribe cooler.

The way they handled magnetic tells me they are not planning to using it outside of the set. Which is fine, it makes them have to come up with the next cool mechanic.

 I would not assume magnetic will be a this set only key word. I know we have not had a "if an elemental was played the turn before" card since ungoro, but the hand mechanic part of dragons shows up in most sets. I expect to see future elementals with the if u played an elemental mechanic. I also like that mechs get magnetic. There were a number of "if u have a mech in play" cards in gvg and magnetic sticks with that theme. It just seems flavorful and interesting making magnetic a generic keyword dosent feel quite as good and u would have to tone down the power level to prevent major abuse

as a meat wagon fan I love it. I'm hoping my niche archtype becomes a beast... in fact I kind of hope it doesn't, as if another of my favourites becomes "popular" I may just hang myself :D 

"Magnetic" in any other tribe wouldn't make sense. They whole point of the mechanic is that minions stick together through magnetic forces.

If Blizzard ever want to revisit the mechanic, they can just create a new one that is like Magnetic but not tribe-specific like the "Fuse" mechanic you propose. The only downside is all the OCD-type players that will start whining that "magnetic is just fuse:mech so why not change it name?". The answer is simple, every expansion is self-contained in desinging and naming, not taking into account what came before or what comes next, that's why Y'shaarj doesn't recruit and why unstable evolution doesn't have echo, those mechanic came after those cards were conceived so they didn't have that keyword.

I think there are two reasons to keep it how it is.

#1: It's much easier to balance a mechanic when it is limited to a smaller card pool.

#2: They may not plan to continue with magnetic after this expansion, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as it gives the expansion a flavor that makes it more memorable. If the mechanic doesn't live on past this expansion then it makes sense to be themed towards mechs.

Quote from RavenSunHP >>

It has to make sense.

Mech was obvious choice for fusion.

But what can fuse with any beast or stand as a minion on its own?

Or Dragons?

The only possible non-mech target would be Elementals, and even then, it would be weird.

 Parasites.

I don't even think this needs to be approached from the thematic point of view. We've had Dragons, Demons, Murlocs, Beasts, Elementals and Pirates being viable somewhere in 2017 or later. Mechs have been killed off ever since GvG rotated out.

I don't think anyone who doesn't play murlocs or demons wants more synergy for them right now. We literally need an expansion with as few dragons as possible. Elementals get support by gaining new members with every update. It's almost impossible to make any expansion without beasts. The world hasn't forgotten the pirate crisis yet.

That being said, mechs never were much explored besides the formerly broken mage deck, and even then their identity was little more than tempo-friendly, possibly sticky cockroaches. I hope Blizzard manages to breathe some new life into the tribe, and maybe even let older mechs shine for the first time. (Mech-Bear-Cat, for example)

Quote from Ryan_Sechrets >>

The idea of a card that is either a minion or a minion enchantment is a great one! It offers flexibility like Discover, prevents dead cards in your hand, and generally encourages more in-game decision-making. Therefore, the idea of the Magnetic keyword has a lot going for it!

The problem is that Magnetic is limited to the mech tribe, arbitrarily restricting the design space for use of this keyword mechanic in future expansions. We saw this problem before, after GvG, the mech tribe received little support. If that happens again, this would be Blizzard introducing a new keyword with limited use, and Blizzard has said that they want to limit the number of keyword mechanics to keep the game accessible (I'm looking at you, Enrage).

Here is a simple proposal to improve the mechanic: Call it "Fuse" and have it always specify a tribe (or tribes). For example, this is how the card text of the new card, Spider Bomb would read: 

Fuse: Mech

Deathrattle: Destroy a random enemy minion.

This would allow for many more interesting card interactions. Sure, some could be problematic. Don't print them!

What are your thoughts on Magnetic? Do you have a better idea to improve it?

You make a good point.  It's a neat concept that is now overly limited by tribe.  I will hold off on whether or not this is a "bad" thing.  It's not uncommon in magic the gathering for certain key words to be popular for only one rotation and only show up in one expansion or set of expansions.  Perhaps it goes against their original verbiage that they want to limit keywords.  That was never that realistic though.  Over time you can't get away from it. 

Personally I think it's okay.  Firstly if we can further flesh out each faction via keywords, then I think that is a good thing.  Plus we may get similar effects in the future that aren't limited to only mechs but work slightly differently.  So don't count out the possibility something like this may show up in the future.

Quote from Morkimus >>

I don't even think this needs to be approached from the thematic point of view. We've had Dragons, Demons, Murlocs, Beasts, Elementals and Pirates being viable somewhere in 2017 or later. Mechs have been killed off ever since GvG rotated out.

I don't think anyone who doesn't play murlocs or demons wants more synergy for them right now. We literally need an expansion with as few dragons as possible. Elementals get support by gaining new members with every update. It's almost impossible to make any expansion without beasts. The world hasn't forgotten the pirate crisis yet.

That being said, mechs never were much explored besides the formerly broken mage deck, and even then their identity was little more than tempo-friendly, possibly sticky cockroaches. I hope Blizzard manages to breathe some new life into the tribe, and maybe even let older mechs shine for the first time. (Mech-Bear-Cat, for example)

 I'm really looking forward to it mate. 

I remember seeing the GvG trailer and thinking it looked really cool, but I never tried the game till Old Gods came around. So This is the first time I'm getting my hands on Goblin mech's and tech.

So we now get another chance to play with this stuff. The fact they have their own built in synergy, that also has synergy with all our other mech's is really cool... it's going to revamp a ton of un-used or niche cards, and probably breathe new life into the GvG set in wild. 

All in all I am really looking forward to this one, already got a Boomsday screensaver on my computer. ha ha

I'm personally hoping that Meat Wagons will hopefully become even more fun. 

PS:

(I have the mount in WoW that is like a giant metal goblin... I once got people in Ogrimmar to build a giant wall out of them.. in fact I will have screens if you wanna see? haha)

Quote from Ryan_Sechrets >>

The idea of a card that is either a minion or a minion enchantment is a great one! It offers flexibility like Discover, prevents dead cards in your hand, and generally encourages more in-game decision-making. Therefore, the idea of the Magnetic keyword has a lot going for it!

The problem is that Magnetic is limited to the mech tribe, arbitrarily restricting the design space for use of this keyword mechanic in future expansions. We saw this problem before, after GvG, the mech tribe received little support. If that happens again, this would be Blizzard introducing a new keyword with limited use, and Blizzard has said that they want to limit the number of keyword mechanics to keep the game accessible (I'm looking at you, Enrage).

Here is a simple proposal to improve the mechanic: Call it "Fuse" and have it always specify a tribe (or tribes). For example, this is how the card text of the new card, Spider Bomb would read: 

Fuse: Mech

Deathrattle: Destroy a random enemy minion.

This would allow for many more interesting card interactions. Sure, some could be problematic. Don't print them!

What are your thoughts on Magnetic? Do you have a better idea to improve it?

To sum up your argument (keep me honest, please), you believe the "magnetic" mechanic is a good mechanic, but that it should be open to all tribes in Hearthstone so it can stay relevant even if Mechs fall out of favor.

From a design philosophy standpoint, I completely disagree. Giving mechs a unique game mechanic is exactly what Blizzard should be doing to make tribal synergies more interesting. Today, most tribal synergies exist in the form of conditional battlecries - yes the conditions are different ("hold a dragon" vs. "played an elemental last turn," etc.), but in principle there's nothing fundamentally different about those tribes. Maybe they should add unique mechanics for other tribes to better differentiate tribes, but making this mechanic generic to support all tribes ruins the "specialness" of it.

Regarding whether or not the broad support of mechs over the last few expansions highlights a problem, I think the opposite is true. It's great to see that mechs will get a lot of support now, and that at some point that support will rotate out of standard to make room for some other tribe and/or mechanic to be front and center. It's okay for the support of certain aspects of the game to ebb and flow to keep things fresh.

Nightmare Amalgam approves of this mechanic. Personally I love the idea. Especially sense it promotes actually looking where you put your minion on the field.

I imagine Magnetic, outside of a few stray cards, is probably a mechanic we won't see very much of after this set, unless it's thematically appropriate again.