6-health is indeed harder to deal with...............on turn 4. On turn 10 it's laughable. There's a reason you go with 5/10 Taunt and not 10/5 when you play Ancient of War. In the late game, high attack low health minions (THAT ALSO DON'T DO ANYTHING ON THE TURN YOU PLAY THEM) are meaningless in every scenario that isn't two players in topdeck mode. I daresay that Soggoth the Slitherer is a better late game taunt than this. What turn 10 combo are you planning on pulling off with this?
So let's talk about Shudderwock. What card(s) are you taking out to include this in? Why is this card better than some other Taunt that you could run (but currently are not)?
If you're running this card as a valuable 10 drop, you're doing it wrong. The point of the card is that it's a 4 drop Taunt, and it happens to get a huge upgrade if you don't draw it or end up playing it before you have 10 mana. It's not better than any other big card, even an Ultrasaur on turn 10 if you're topdecking, but it's miles better than any one of them on turn 4 since it's playable, and that's why you would run the card. It naturally helps you stall out the game in slow decks, and then rewards you for slowing down the game, giving you an extra bonus for running a combo deck or ramp druid or whatever you're playing that wants to get to 10 mana anyway. It's a Stegodon, but instead of having its possible impact on the board flatline by turn 10, this spikes back up to a 4 mana 12/6 on turn 10, which means you can play it alongside other cards like board clears and removal.
As for Shudderwock deck techs, it depends on the post-expansion meta. I'd say that there's ~25 must have cards in the deck at the moment and ~5 slots for tech options, so it would simply be a tech card you run if you want more insurance in case the combo fails, without having to run an otherwise useless Murmuring Elemental. If there's a highly midrange meta where both stopping early game aggression and having value in the late game are useful in most of your games, that is where Omega Defender, and probably all of the Omega Projects, will shine.
By this reasoning literally every 4-drop ever printed is better than a late game card. No deck is running Stegodon, they won't suddenly start running this. Like I mentioned before, Priest doesn't even run Tortollan Shellraiser which has the exact same stats and has a bonus effect. As for Shudderwock, I'm already seeing (and playing with) lists that don't run Murmuring, and they pretty consistently generate the combo. The scenario you're describing (where you need late game value, AND don't pull off the combo for some reason) is fringe, and this inclusion of Omega Defender to try and reduce a tiny loss percentage just weakens the deck instead.
Feel free to quote me on this, but Omega Defender will see no play whatsoever if there isn't some other amazing synergy in the set.
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If you have found all the pieces of the Shudderwock combo unless you are quite unlucky you have won the game. Omega defender will not increase the chances to win
Exactly. You’re going to need Omega Defender to buy you time to find all the pieces to win the game. Hence he will improve your chanves to win quite nicely. That’s the whole point. Thank you! 👌😎
This is exactly the sort of card that could bump this deck up in tier level quite nicely.
Let’s also not forget that there is always the chance that you could mill a key card (like Shudderwock or Grumble). This card gives you a really good out chance to recover from what is normally a concede-level occurence.
the stretches you're making to rationalize this card. you don't include a card just in case one of your key cards gets milled. in other words, you don't make your deck significantly worse to protect against a very fringe scenario (instead, you simply try to keep your hand from being millable, if possible).
re: including it to delay the game for the shudderwock turn.....again, I ask you - what card(s) are you replacing in a shudderwock list, which a) omega defender is better than, b) omega defender is better than some other taunt/means to delay the game?
6-health is indeed harder to deal with...............on turn 4. On turn 10 it's laughable. There's a reason you go with 5/10 Taunt and not 10/5 when you play Ancient of War. In the late game, high attack low health minions (THAT ALSO DON'T DO ANYTHING ON THE TURN YOU PLAY THEM) are meaningless in every scenario that isn't two players in topdeck mode. I daresay that Soggoth the Slitherer is a better late game taunt than this. What turn 10 combo are you planning on pulling off with this?
So let's talk about Shudderwock. What card(s) are you taking out to include this in? Why is this card better than some other Taunt that you could run (but currently are not)?
If you're running this card as a valuable 10 drop, you're doing it wrong. The point of the card is that it's a 4 drop Taunt, and it happens to get a huge upgrade if you don't draw it or end up playing it before you have 10 mana. It's not better than any other big card, even an Ultrasaur on turn 10 if you're topdecking, but it's miles better than any one of them on turn 4 since it's playable, and that's why you would run the card. It naturally helps you stall out the game in slow decks, and then rewards you for slowing down the game, giving you an extra bonus for running a combo deck or ramp druid or whatever you're playing that wants to get to 10 mana anyway. It's a Stegodon, but instead of having its possible impact on the board flatline by turn 10, this spikes back up to a 4 mana 12/6 on turn 10, which means you can play it alongside other cards like board clears and removal.
As for Shudderwock deck techs, it depends on the post-expansion meta. I'd say that there's ~25 must have cards in the deck at the moment and ~5 slots for tech options, so it would simply be a tech card you run if you want more insurance in case the combo fails, without having to run an otherwise useless Murmuring Elemental. If there's a highly midrange meta where both stopping early game aggression and having value in the late game are useful in most of your games, that is where Omega Defender, and probably all of the Omega Projects, will shine.
By this reasoning literally every 4-drop ever printed is better than a late game card. No deck is running Stegodon, they won't suddenly start running this. Like I mentioned before, Priest doesn't even run Tortollan Shellraiser which has the exact same stats and has a bonus effect. As for Shudderwock, I'm already seeing (and playing with) lists that don't run Murmuring, and they pretty consistently generate the combo. The scenario you're describing (where you need late game value, AND don't pull off the combo for some reason) is fringe, and this inclusion of Omega Defender to try and reduce a tiny loss percentage just weakens the deck instead.
Feel free to quote me on this, but Omega Defender will see no play whatsoever if there isn't some other amazing synergy in the set.
If you can't get to the late game to play your 10 drops then there's not much point in playing them, and this is essentially a 10 drop's worth of stats (18 total) on turn ten, and a 4 drop that protects you until you can get there. Tortollan Shellraiser suffers from the same problem as Stegodon where its ability to affect the board decreases pretty quickly after turn 4, which matters in Priest because it's such a late game oriented class, but Omega Defender gets around the problem other 4 mana 2/6 Taunts have by having 18 stats on turn ten instead of 8. This has potential because it not only functions as a defensive card, but can hold its own in the late game nearly as well as other purely late-game cards. If it gets removed, your opponent just wasted a card that they would want to use on a 7+ drop on your 4 drop "Stegodon," which is insane value.
As for Shudderwock, having the combo fail isn't very likely, but it definitely still happens. With one Saronite Chain Gang and one Grumble, Worldshaker played, you only have a 50% chance to finish off the combo, and in most games you can bump your chance of winning to a little over 80% without a ton of preplanning, (The best odds I've seen in an actual game was 5 SCG's and both Grumble and Zola played, which gives you a 1/21 chance of failing to get a copy of Shudderwock in your hand.) but there's still a good chance that if anything goes wrong, like if you burn a SCG or Zola the Gorgon, or if you run Hemet, Jungle Hunter and destroy Zola, or if you can only play one SGC before you're forced play Shudderwock, you might not get the combo off, and you'd then be stuck with only the Shudderwocks you have on the board, which might be as few as two. If both of those Shudderwocks are 16/6's instead of 6/6's, you have a much better chance of winning the game, and at the negligible cost of running one copy of an alright tech card. Playing Shudderwock is all about maximizing your chances to win the game with the combo, and if you can ensure that even if the combo doesn't work you have an alternate win condition without having to pray to RNGesus that Bewitch gives you a Bloodlust or a Windfury, that's a way to maximize your chances of winning even when you can't go infinite that doesn't require any high level gameplay to pull off.
the stretches you're making to rationalize this card. you don't include a card just in case one of your key cards gets milled. in other words, you don't make your deck significantly worse to protect against a very fringe scenario (instead, you simply try to keep your hand from being millable, if possible).
re: including it to delay the game for the shudderwock turn.....again, I ask you - what card(s) are you replacing in a shudderwock list, which a) omega defender is better than, b) omega defender is better than some other taunt/means to delay the game?
Nobody has made any real ‘stretches’ to provide basis for why this card is good. The fact that you seem to think they have and/or cant see the obvious strength of the card is pretty much the whole problem.
I already listed a couple of cards that this could easily replace and make the deck stronger: Sandbonder and McT. This is the last time I will point them out as I dislike having to repeat myself. Whether you choose to accept the bounty of evidence that quite a few people have put forward to you on this is entirely up to you. Accept it or dont. It doesnt change how good it is.
I’m going to agree to disagree on this one. Enough other people seem to agree that the card is good to continue that discussion. Unless you have actual solid reasoning why it wouldnt be of any use in Shudderwock decks? So far, all you seem to have said is to tell you what cards can be replaced. We’ve done that. Back to you then.
"you could include this in your deck just in case you burn Shudderwock"
that doesn't sound like an insane stretch of logic to you?
I've been trying out this list which doesn't even run Sandbinder, MC Tech, or Murmuring Elemental, and it's been pretty successful.
You're just cherry-picking one particular point of use that was made and trying to argue against it: that's known as straw-manning. This is not the only use that the card has, but one of many. It is also a good taunt minion with excellent stats in late game, as well as a useful taunt for early game against weenie rush decks like Odd Pally. AND it is really good to buff Shudderwock in the case of mirror matches etc. AND it has value that increases as the game goes on (something that is quite rare). Hardly an 'insane stretch' in the slightest...
But wouldn't it just be returned to your hand by Grumble? And think about what you'd be replacing? Saronite Chain gang? losing value against aggro via removing mct? idk
So glad I clicked on your sig, dude. hahaha. awesome.
Maybe Sandbinder. The extra taunt value is extremely useful (especially laye game).
Or can replace McT which sees less use these days.
Taunt isn't a battlecry
I never said it was. o.O Please reread the post. Lol! I said that having a taunt minion (particularly one with such good stats) is extremely useful, especially in the late game.
Omega Defender + Armored Warhorse + Dopplegangster + Shudderwock
By this reasoning literally every 4-drop ever printed is better than a late game card. No deck is running Stegodon, they won't suddenly start running this. Like I mentioned before, Priest doesn't even run Tortollan Shellraiser which has the exact same stats and has a bonus effect. As for Shudderwock, I'm already seeing (and playing with) lists that don't run Murmuring, and they pretty consistently generate the combo. The scenario you're describing (where you need late game value, AND don't pull off the combo for some reason) is fringe, and this inclusion of Omega Defender to try and reduce a tiny loss percentage just weakens the deck instead.
Feel free to quote me on this, but Omega Defender will see no play whatsoever if there isn't some other amazing synergy in the set.
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Exactly. You’re going to need Omega Defender to buy you time to find all the pieces to win the game. Hence he will improve your chanves to win quite nicely. That’s the whole point. Thank you! 👌😎
This is exactly the sort of card that could bump this deck up in tier level quite nicely.
Let’s also not forget that there is always the chance that you could mill a key card (like Shudderwock or Grumble). This card gives you a really good out chance to recover from what is normally a concede-level occurence.
good lord
the stretches you're making to rationalize this card. you don't include a card just in case one of your key cards gets milled. in other words, you don't make your deck significantly worse to protect against a very fringe scenario (instead, you simply try to keep your hand from being millable, if possible).
re: including it to delay the game for the shudderwock turn.....again, I ask you - what card(s) are you replacing in a shudderwock list, which a) omega defender is better than, b) omega defender is better than some other taunt/means to delay the game?
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If you can't get to the late game to play your 10 drops then there's not much point in playing them, and this is essentially a 10 drop's worth of stats (18 total) on turn ten, and a 4 drop that protects you until you can get there. Tortollan Shellraiser suffers from the same problem as Stegodon where its ability to affect the board decreases pretty quickly after turn 4, which matters in Priest because it's such a late game oriented class, but Omega Defender gets around the problem other 4 mana 2/6 Taunts have by having 18 stats on turn ten instead of 8. This has potential because it not only functions as a defensive card, but can hold its own in the late game nearly as well as other purely late-game cards. If it gets removed, your opponent just wasted a card that they would want to use on a 7+ drop on your 4 drop "Stegodon," which is insane value.
As for Shudderwock, having the combo fail isn't very likely, but it definitely still happens. With one Saronite Chain Gang and one Grumble, Worldshaker played, you only have a 50% chance to finish off the combo, and in most games you can bump your chance of winning to a little over 80% without a ton of preplanning, (The best odds I've seen in an actual game was 5 SCG's and both Grumble and Zola played, which gives you a 1/21 chance of failing to get a copy of Shudderwock in your hand.) but there's still a good chance that if anything goes wrong, like if you burn a SCG or Zola the Gorgon, or if you run Hemet, Jungle Hunter and destroy Zola, or if you can only play one SGC before you're forced play Shudderwock, you might not get the combo off, and you'd then be stuck with only the Shudderwocks you have on the board, which might be as few as two. If both of those Shudderwocks are 16/6's instead of 6/6's, you have a much better chance of winning the game, and at the negligible cost of running one copy of an alright tech card. Playing Shudderwock is all about maximizing your chances to win the game with the combo, and if you can ensure that even if the combo doesn't work you have an alternate win condition without having to pray to RNGesus that Bewitch gives you a Bloodlust or a Windfury, that's a way to maximize your chances of winning even when you can't go infinite that doesn't require any high level gameplay to pull off.
Nobody has made any real ‘stretches’ to provide basis for why this card is good. The fact that you seem to think they have and/or cant see the obvious strength of the card is pretty much the whole problem.
I already listed a couple of cards that this could easily replace and make the deck stronger: Sandbonder and McT. This is the last time I will point them out as I dislike having to repeat myself. Whether you choose to accept the bounty of evidence that quite a few people have put forward to you on this is entirely up to you. Accept it or dont. It doesnt change how good it is.
I’m going to agree to disagree on this one. Enough other people seem to agree that the card is good to continue that discussion. Unless you have actual solid reasoning why it wouldnt be of any use in Shudderwock decks? So far, all you seem to have said is to tell you what cards can be replaced. We’ve done that. Back to you then.
"you could include this in your deck just in case you burn Shudderwock"
that doesn't sound like an insane stretch of logic to you?
I've been trying out this list which doesn't even run Sandbinder, MC Tech, or Murmuring Elemental, and it's been pretty successful.
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You're just cherry-picking one particular point of use that was made and trying to argue against it: that's known as straw-manning.
This is not the only use that the card has, but one of many. It is also a good taunt minion with excellent stats in late game, as well as a useful taunt for early game against weenie rush decks like Odd Pally. AND it is really good to buff Shudderwock in the case of mirror matches etc. AND it has value that increases as the game goes on (something that is quite rare).
Hardly an 'insane stretch' in the slightest...
i give up and im willing to 100% concede at this point.
you win.
this card will be tier 1 forever and replace the entire decklist of shudderwock.
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Taunt isn't a battlecry
.
So glad I clicked on your sig, dude. hahaha. awesome.
I never said it was. o.O
Please reread the post. Lol!
I said that having a taunt minion (particularly one with such good stats) is extremely useful, especially in the late game.
jaw dropping more like jaw biting
Omega defender, the giant-ass robot who is not even tagged as 'mech'
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