Rogue should be tempo class and she gains that via using cheap cards in a turn but nowadays you take some much damage and comboing cards getting very hard. You either left with no hand ( and auctioneer is too slow not that useful anymore. usually its one sprint one auctioneer) or you need to reserve cards to combo another turn meanwhile the opponent class gain the same tempo.
druid had flexibility and card draw. now they also have aoe protection which prevents going wide. it would be cool if it was the only thing but now with their superior armor gain you cant pressure them with two minions.
they also lacked ability to destroy big minions but the spellstone and naturalize( normally wouldnt be used but with that armor and not giving a f about opponent kinda makes it non issue)
Yeah, this bothers me too. I'm fine with Druid having armor gain, it's just that its cards allow it to stack insane amounts of armor in a single turn. Ferocious Howl, when played with a full hand, lets a Druid gain 9 armor in a turn. Branching Paths can give you 12 armor should you choose that option twice. Oaken Summons gives you 6 armor AND recruits a minion from your deck to boot. Let's not even talk about Ultimate Infestation. Pairing these cards with a class that already has top-tier tools in ramping and card draw is just criminal, since it allows for an almost unkillable hero. Blizzard just loves pumping up the Druid class for some reason.
Yeah, this bothers me too. I'm fine with Druid having armor gain, it's just that its cards allow it to stack insane amounts of armor in a single turn. Ferocious Howl, when played with a full hand, lets a Druid gain 9 armor in a turn. Branching Paths can give you 12 armor should you choose that option twice. Oaken Summons gives you 6 armor AND recruits a minion from your deck to boot. Let's not even talk about Ultimate Infestation. Pairing these cards with a class that already has top-tier tools in ramping and card draw is just criminal, since it allows for an almost unkillable hero. Blizzard just loves pumping up the Druid class for some reason.
Dude... With Ferocious Howl and a full hand, it gains 10 armour :(
Yeah, this bothers me too. I'm fine with Druid having armor gain, it's just that its cards allow it to stack insane amounts of armor in a single turn. Ferocious Howl, when played with a full hand, lets a Druid gain 9 armor in a turn. Branching Paths can give you 12 armor should you choose that option twice. Oaken Summons gives you 6 armor AND recruits a minion from your deck to boot. Let's not even talk about Ultimate Infestation. Pairing these cards with a class that already has top-tier tools in ramping and card draw is just criminal, since it allows for an almost unkillable hero. Blizzard just loves pumping up the Druid class for some reason.
Dude... With Ferocious Howl and a full hand, it gains 10 armour :(
Ah right, I forgot you draw a card too on top of all that armor gain... /facepalm
Yeah, this bothers me too. I'm fine with Druid having armor gain, it's just that its cards allow it to stack insane amounts of armor in a single turn. Ferocious Howl, when played with a full hand, lets a Druid gain 9 armor in a turn. Branching Paths can give you 12 armor should you choose that option twice. Oaken Summons gives you 6 armor AND recruits a minion from your deck to boot. Let's not even talk about Ultimate Infestation. Pairing these cards with a class that already has top-tier tools in ramping and card draw is just criminal, since it allows for an almost unkillable hero. Blizzard just loves pumping up the Druid class for some reason.
Dude... With Ferocious Howl and a full hand, it gains 10 armour :(
Ah right, I forgot you draw a card too on top of all that armor gain... /facepalm
I just can't understand why Druid is the only Class that doesn't have a downside using their cards...
Yeah, this bothers me too. I'm fine with Druid having armor gain, it's just that its cards allow it to stack insane amounts of armor in a single turn. Ferocious Howl, when played with a full hand, lets a Druid gain 9 armor in a turn. Branching Paths can give you 12 armor should you choose that option twice. Oaken Summons gives you 6 armor AND recruits a minion from your deck to boot. Let's not even talk about Ultimate Infestation. Pairing these cards with a class that already has top-tier tools in ramping and card draw is just criminal, since it allows for an almost unkillable hero. Blizzard just loves pumping up the Druid class for some reason.
Dude... With Ferocious Howl and a full hand, it gains 10 armour :(
Ah right, I forgot you draw a card too on top of all that armor gain... /facepalm
I just can't understand why Druid is the only Class that doesn't have a downside using their cards...
You can say that the "downside" of some Druid cards is the fact that the player can choose between 2-3 options depending on the situation. This design demands certain skill, as the wrong choice could swing the game in your opponent's favor. The problem is, almost all options in Druid cards are pretty good so even with a wrong choice, you'll probably still be in good shape (see Branching Paths and Nourish).
Class identity was excuse to nerf Blade Flurry and not give rogue any healing tools, until they decided to give rogue healing tools. That's it. Anyone who believes Blizzard has any idea or care of identity is a fool. It's just weak justification for design choices the community disagrees with.
Yeah, this bothers me too. I'm fine with Druid having armor gain, it's just that its cards allow it to stack insane amounts of armor in a single turn. Ferocious Howl, when played with a full hand, lets a Druid gain 9 armor in a turn. Branching Paths can give you 12 armor should you choose that option twice. Oaken Summons gives you 6 armor AND recruits a minion from your deck to boot. Let's not even talk about Ultimate Infestation. Pairing these cards with a class that already has top-tier tools in ramping and card draw is just criminal, since it allows for an almost unkillable hero. Blizzard just loves pumping up the Druid class for some reason.
Dude... With Ferocious Howl and a full hand, it gains 10 armour :(
Ah right, I forgot you draw a card too on top of all that armor gain... /facepalm
I just can't understand why Druid is the only Class that doesn't have a downside using their cards...
You can say that the "downside" of some Druid cards is the fact that the player can choose between 2-3 options depending on the situation. This design demands certain skill, as the wrong choice could swing the game in your opponent's favor. The problem is, almost all options in Druid cards are pretty good so even with a wrong choice, you'll probably still be in good shape (see Branching Paths and Nourish).
Is not a downside,
if you are not stupid, with the right (or the a good one) choice you win the game. Discover is better than "you receive a random minion". And druid choice design is like the discover one, but better.
I agree with most of what everyone said, Druid has too much armor gain cards, but it's not gonna be that way forever - so, Warrior is still the "armor" class imo.
The issue I have with class identity is more in the fact I don't like cards that steal other people's cards - like Azalina, Benedictus, various Rogue and Priest spells etc. Now, some of those cards (most) are for the memes only, but I'm not complaining about strength of those cards. The effects of those cards DESTROY class identity and I really don't like facing Priest/Rogue/Druid or whatever using them, that changes through 3 heroes and classes in the course of the game, to the point I barely know what class I was facing originally.
I hope they'll steer away from stealing cards allowing for that, it also makes the game COMPLETELY RNG which is, a bad thing, or at least should be. Some RNG is good, stealing some cards is fine, but when you change like 10 or 20+ cards of your deck, what is the point of different classes -.-'
Priest can copy cards from opponent's deck and hand and can take control of opponent's minions. This goes fine with Priest's identity of using "psychic powers" and using opponent's resources against them.
Rogue can copy cards from opponent's class which, for me, aligns correctly with Rogue's identity of being stealthy thieves.
It has annoyed me too, but I think the problem is that Warrior has a shit DK (compared to most others) and should have bettet armor+tempo cards. Druid is in a decent place in both formats imo.
I think you're right. Heal in general tends to be much cheaper than damage in this game (look at Darkscale Healer, for example, you basically heal your entire board for 2 hp for 1 mana). Armor is basically heal that can go to infinity. And if we compare hero powers, you tend to pay a premium for being able to choose a target (mage can ping anything for 1 damage, hunter can only ping face but for 2). Similarly, if priest can "ping" anything for 2 heal, shouldn't warrior's "heal" that can only target self give him an additional 1 armor or something? With that said, I don't think Odd Warrior needs any more than 4 armor per turn he already gets. Actually, given the current card design (Reckless Flurry, Shield Slam, etc.), even increasing the hero power to 3 armor may be too dangerous without nerfing those cards first.
Class identity was excuse to nerf Blade Flurry and not give rogue any healing tools, until they decided to give rogue healing tools. That's it. Anyone who believes Blizzard has any idea or care of identity is a fool. It's just weak justification for design choices the community disagrees with.
yess i would really love to get 2 mana flurry. without hitting face tho. with kingsbane being a thing, there is no chance
Yeah, this bothers me too. I'm fine with Druid having armor gain, it's just that its cards allow it to stack insane amounts of armor in a single turn. Ferocious Howl, when played with a full hand, lets a Druid gain 9 armor in a turn. Branching Paths can give you 12 armor should you choose that option twice. Oaken Summons gives you 6 armor AND recruits a minion from your deck to boot. Let's not even talk about Ultimate Infestation. Pairing these cards with a class that already has top-tier tools in ramping and card draw is just criminal, since it allows for an almost unkillable hero. Blizzard just loves pumping up the Druid class for some reason.
Dude... With Ferocious Howl and a full hand, it gains 10 armour :(
Ah right, I forgot you draw a card too on top of all that armor gain... /facepalm
I just can't understand why Druid is the only Class that doesn't have a downside using their cards...
You can say that the "downside" of some Druid cards is the fact that the player can choose between 2-3 options depending on the situation. This design demands certain skill, as the wrong choice could swing the game in your opponent's favor. The problem is, almost all options in Druid cards are pretty good so even with a wrong choice, you'll probably still be in good shape (see Branching Paths and Nourish).
Is not a downside,
if you are not stupid, with the right (or the a good one) choice you win the game. Discover is better than "you receive a random minion". And druid choice design is like the discover one, but better.
The downside is that most of the good druid cards are very bad tempo plays that require you to make up for it later. If they don't, and the opponent knows how to play, they lose.
The biggest offender might actually be Oaken Summons as it brings something on the board. UI is another decent tempo card bit let's not go there.
Druid always had armor with his HP and some cards (mostly give +X attack and +X armor at the beginning). Thing is, warrior and druid don't use armor in the same way.
My opinion is:
Warrior deal damage with the amounth of armor he has Shield Slam, Reckless Fury, etc and also use this to go the late game and help him playing late.
Druid mostly gain armor to attack with his hero without taking too much damage, thats why a lot of card that give him armor also allow him to hit the enemy with his face. Everytime druid gain armor he has a way to be offensive by summoning minions, buffing minions, etc where warrior play armor more defensively.
As an old Control Warrior player it feels strange to always be far behind Druid in armor even when I play Odd with 4 armor a turn.
Off topic I would like a little brother to Skulking G for 3 mana that kill all 0-kost cards. Odd Warrior often lose 9-10 cards to Skulking, both Shield slam, the 6 cards from Omega and maybe one Whirlwind.
And warrior has to use up the armor for Reckless fury and with the weapon to survive so getting much armor to counter let's say a Malygos attack isn't easy.
class identity is weird in this game.
Rogue should be tempo class and she gains that via using cheap cards in a turn but nowadays you take some much damage and comboing cards getting very hard. You either left with no hand ( and auctioneer is too slow not that useful anymore. usually its one sprint one auctioneer) or you need to reserve cards to combo another turn meanwhile the opponent class gain the same tempo.
druid had flexibility and card draw. now they also have aoe protection which prevents going wide. it would be cool if it was the only thing but now with their superior armor gain you cant pressure them with two minions.
they also lacked ability to destroy big minions but the spellstone and naturalize( normally wouldnt be used but with that armor and not giving a f about opponent kinda makes it non issue)
so yeah it feels like a mess
Yeah, this bothers me too. I'm fine with Druid having armor gain, it's just that its cards allow it to stack insane amounts of armor in a single turn. Ferocious Howl, when played with a full hand, lets a Druid gain 9 armor in a turn. Branching Paths can give you 12 armor should you choose that option twice. Oaken Summons gives you 6 armor AND recruits a minion from your deck to boot. Let's not even talk about Ultimate Infestation. Pairing these cards with a class that already has top-tier tools in ramping and card draw is just criminal, since it allows for an almost unkillable hero. Blizzard just loves pumping up the Druid class for some reason.
Dude... With Ferocious Howl and a full hand, it gains 10 armour :(
Leper Gnome
Ah right, I forgot you draw a card too on top of all that armor gain... /facepalm
I just can't understand why Druid is the only Class that doesn't have a downside using their cards...
Leper Gnome
No don't.
You can say that the "downside" of some Druid cards is the fact that the player can choose between 2-3 options depending on the situation. This design demands certain skill, as the wrong choice could swing the game in your opponent's favor. The problem is, almost all options in Druid cards are pretty good so even with a wrong choice, you'll probably still be in good shape (see Branching Paths and Nourish).
Class identity was excuse to nerf Blade Flurry and not give rogue any healing tools, until they decided to give rogue healing tools. That's it. Anyone who believes Blizzard has any idea or care of identity is a fool. It's just weak justification for design choices the community disagrees with.
Is not a downside,
if you are not stupid, with the right (or the a good one) choice you win the game.
Discover is better than "you receive a random minion". And druid choice design is like the discover one, but better.
Leper Gnome
Priest can copy cards from opponent's deck and hand and can take control of opponent's minions. This goes fine with Priest's identity of using "psychic powers" and using opponent's resources against them.
Rogue can copy cards from opponent's class which, for me, aligns correctly with Rogue's identity of being stealthy thieves.
IDK, "stealing" cards seems fine to me.
I think you're right. Heal in general tends to be much cheaper than damage in this game (look at Darkscale Healer, for example, you basically heal your entire board for 2 hp for 1 mana). Armor is basically heal that can go to infinity. And if we compare hero powers, you tend to pay a premium for being able to choose a target (mage can ping anything for 1 damage, hunter can only ping face but for 2). Similarly, if priest can "ping" anything for 2 heal, shouldn't warrior's "heal" that can only target self give him an additional 1 armor or something? With that said, I don't think Odd Warrior needs any more than 4 armor per turn he already gets. Actually, given the current card design (Reckless Flurry, Shield Slam, etc.), even increasing the hero power to 3 armor may be too dangerous without nerfing those cards first.
Priest being able to steal people's card is rubbish and is lame for Priest "identity". Imo, each class should strive to be unique.
yess i would really love to get 2 mana flurry. without hitting face tho. with kingsbane being a thing, there is no chance
It's ok,
because priest is a Mind Reader and it can "read" your deck
Leper Gnome
The downside is that most of the good druid cards are very bad tempo plays that require you to make up for it later. If they don't, and the opponent knows how to play, they lose.
The biggest offender might actually be Oaken Summons as it brings something on the board. UI is another decent tempo card bit let's not go there.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Druid always had armor with his HP and some cards (mostly give +X attack and +X armor at the beginning). Thing is, warrior and druid don't use armor in the same way.
My opinion is:
Warrior deal damage with the amounth of armor he has Shield Slam, Reckless Fury, etc and also use this to go the late game and help him playing late.
Druid mostly gain armor to attack with his hero without taking too much damage, thats why a lot of card that give him armor also allow him to hit the enemy with his face. Everytime druid gain armor he has a way to be offensive by summoning minions, buffing minions, etc where warrior play armor more defensively.
Love the tribes.
As an old Control Warrior player it feels strange to always be far behind Druid in armor even when I play Odd with 4 armor a turn.
Off topic I would like a little brother to Skulking G for 3 mana that kill all 0-kost cards. Odd Warrior often lose 9-10 cards to Skulking, both Shield slam, the 6 cards from Omega and maybe one Whirlwind.
True story,
Branching + ferocious + UI + ramp package.
The same everytime
Leper Gnome
And warrior has to use up the armor for Reckless fury and with the weapon to survive so getting much armor to counter let's say a Malygos attack isn't easy.
If you want to talk about class identity try to look maybe 1 year to past...
Warrior - armor class - was better aggro deck than hunter