Faster to grind with, so a fast deck player will get more wins/gold/ranking faster than a slow deck player even with similar win rates. Also, due to mana costs in Hearthstone, fast decks can overwhelm other decks who are either unable to draw the card they need to counter or don't have the mana to play it.
It feels like the only time slow decks were good was with Reno Jackson. With a single card, a control player could basically negate everything the aggro player had done for multiple turns. If you dumped double kill command and tons of steady shots into face, that's a lot of mana and resources and the Reno player could set himself at 30 again with a single 6 mana card. Reno let players run very slow, greedy decks, especially combined with Brann to potentially discover multiple cards. This was even better in the short meta where Meme Streets and League of Explorers converged, and Reno decks could get huge resources. A smart player would know their outs of a match-up and know what cards to discover. So if Blizzard really wants to bring back slow decks we need a Reno.
Similarly, Cubelock also killed aggro by combining the two things fast players hate; healing and taunts. But the issue was that Reno really only countered fast decks (other slow decks were probably less interested in face and more interested in playing on curve or gaining resources) but Cubelock really messed with everyone. It turns out lots of decks hate taunt and healing, and Cubelock had enough counters to deal with control decks too (such as blowing up their deck!).
RIght now is the biggest control meta since closed beta.
That's the consensus. And it means it can still be punished.
Having watched HCT Seoul, the winner's lineup was Odd Rogue, Odd Paladin, Hybrid Hunter and Malygos Druid. He went 18-2. The runner-up had Odd Rogue, Odd Paladin, Token Druid and Even Shaman.
The 3rd had Miracle Rogue, Even Shaman, Taunt Druid and Odd Paladin. Only the 4th guy had a control lineup with Big Spell Mage, Taunt Druid, Taunt Warrior and Shudderwock Shaman.
Aggressively lineups targeting greedy combo and control decks were the most successful.
Sure, tournament scene is different from ladder, and while we may discuss how effective super greedy decks are actually able to be punished, the players who read the meta right and prepared their decks to punish it were again, very successful.
Most people are casual players. What do casual players like? Fast games. Fast games=aggro. Blizzard needs to pander to casual players for money, cause y'know, it's a business.
In terms of aggro being mindless, it can feel like it, but sometimes you need to figure out when to best make trades. When I've played aggro, I've beaten tons of other aggro players because they couldn't bother to trade, and purely went face.
When I got board control? GG.
Even then, I like control decks more because I like the intensity of surviving against a aggro deck. Living by just a hair, wiping the board, and then stabilizing to pull off a combo.
RIght now is the biggest control meta since closed beta.
as stated previously, 8 out of 11 of the top decks are not control.
Care to provide your data?
In a quick search, I found this and in addition to taunt Druid, Big Spell mage and Taunt warrior, they also list Even Warlock, Control Warlock, Cubelock and Shudderwock as Tier 1 or 2.
On top of that, most of the other decks are also slower decks. Like token Druid starts filling the board on turn 4. The mirror between Zalae and Amesiac went to fatigue (Link).
The quickest decks in Tier 1/2 are probably Odd rogue (which has still five 5 drops) or secret/tempo mage. This doesn't look like a "fast meta".
@topic: But anyway, the OP's statement is just not clear. What are "fast decks"? Just aggro or also midrange decks? How is being "best" defined? Winrate? Laddering speed? And what is meant by "always"? The last really strong aggro deck that I remember was Murloc Paladin in C&C. The other top decks were Control warlock and cubelock (slower decks). Before that Jade Druid, Raza-Priest and tempo rogue (with 7 drops) were Tier 1.
It just seems to me that someone who prefers to play control decks with attrition style perceives the meta as fast just because every deck he meets is faster than his fatigue mage.
RIght now is the biggest control meta since closed beta.
as stated previously, 8 out of 11 of the top decks are not control.
Sure, but these 8 are not aggro either.
From VS of last week (since today's hasn't come out yet):
Tier 1 are Taunt Warrior, Token Druid, Even Warlock, Odd Paladin, Big Spell Mage, Spell Hunter and Odd Rogue
Tier 2 are Cube Warlock, Even Shaman, Kathrena Hunter, Quest Priest and Shudderwock Shaman
Only 2 Aggro with Odd Paladin and Odd Rogue. The Combo decks play very similarly to Control in most matchups which furthers the point that the meta is mostly "controlly". The midrange decks play initially as the control role against those two aggro decks as well.
I'd really not like to go back down this road. Suffice it to say, this is not a control heavy meta. It's slower than previous metas, I'll concede that. But to say this is a control heavy meta is to simply ignore the hard data.
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I'd really not like to go back down this road. Suffice it to say, this is not a control heavy meta. It's slower than previous metas, I'll concede that. But to say this is a control heavy meta is to simply ignore the hard data.
Yea agreed it's slow but not a control heavy. It's a slow combo meta.
I'd really not like to go back down this road. Suffice it to say, this is not a control heavy meta. It's slower than previous metas, I'll concede that. But to say this is a control heavy meta is to simply ignore the hard data.
I think this meta is better for slow decks at the moment, however one of the reasons people play fast deck is that cheap uneventful efficent minions that fast decks like to run are low rarity cards, thus they're affordable, they hardly go past rare otherwise..... well just see the problem when they announced Town Crier people complained about it being epic while slow decks usually rely on a bunch of legendary/epic win conditions or defensive tools to be formed, i mean some have work arounds i played control warrior back in ebta with 2x Boulderfist Ogre because i didn't have Cairne Bloodhoof andYsera so the ogres rounded up rag and grom as threats and still baited removal, but that's not the case with all of the control decks,
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Faster to grind with, so a fast deck player will get more wins/gold/ranking faster than a slow deck player even with similar win rates. Also, due to mana costs in Hearthstone, fast decks can overwhelm other decks who are either unable to draw the card they need to counter or don't have the mana to play it.
It feels like the only time slow decks were good was with Reno Jackson. With a single card, a control player could basically negate everything the aggro player had done for multiple turns. If you dumped double kill command and tons of steady shots into face, that's a lot of mana and resources and the Reno player could set himself at 30 again with a single 6 mana card. Reno let players run very slow, greedy decks, especially combined with Brann to potentially discover multiple cards. This was even better in the short meta where Meme Streets and League of Explorers converged, and Reno decks could get huge resources. A smart player would know their outs of a match-up and know what cards to discover. So if Blizzard really wants to bring back slow decks we need a Reno.
Similarly, Cubelock also killed aggro by combining the two things fast players hate; healing and taunts. But the issue was that Reno really only countered fast decks (other slow decks were probably less interested in face and more interested in playing on curve or gaining resources) but Cubelock really messed with everyone. It turns out lots of decks hate taunt and healing, and Cubelock had enough counters to deal with control decks too (such as blowing up their deck!).
this thread is so wired.
RIght now is the biggest control meta since closed beta.
That's the consensus. And it means it can still be punished.
Having watched HCT Seoul, the winner's lineup was Odd Rogue, Odd Paladin, Hybrid Hunter and Malygos Druid. He went 18-2. The runner-up had Odd Rogue, Odd Paladin, Token Druid and Even Shaman.
The 3rd had Miracle Rogue, Even Shaman, Taunt Druid and Odd Paladin. Only the 4th guy had a control lineup with Big Spell Mage, Taunt Druid, Taunt Warrior and Shudderwock Shaman.
Aggressively lineups targeting greedy combo and control decks were the most successful.
Sure, tournament scene is different from ladder, and while we may discuss how effective super greedy decks are actually able to be punished, the players who read the meta right and prepared their decks to punish it were again, very successful.
as stated previously, 8 out of 11 of the top decks are not control.
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This just feels like a needless QQ thread.
Most people are casual players. What do casual players like? Fast games. Fast games=aggro. Blizzard needs to pander to casual players for money, cause y'know, it's a business.
In terms of aggro being mindless, it can feel like it, but sometimes you need to figure out when to best make trades. When I've played aggro, I've beaten tons of other aggro players because they couldn't bother to trade, and purely went face.
When I got board control? GG.
Even then, I like control decks more because I like the intensity of surviving against a aggro deck. Living by just a hair, wiping the board, and then stabilizing to pull off a combo.
Just fantastic stuff, mate.
Care to provide your data?
In a quick search, I found this and in addition to taunt Druid, Big Spell mage and Taunt warrior, they also list Even Warlock, Control Warlock, Cubelock and Shudderwock as Tier 1 or 2.
On top of that, most of the other decks are also slower decks. Like token Druid starts filling the board on turn 4. The mirror between Zalae and Amesiac went to fatigue (Link).
The quickest decks in Tier 1/2 are probably Odd rogue (which has still five 5 drops) or secret/tempo mage. This doesn't look like a "fast meta".
@topic: But anyway, the OP's statement is just not clear. What are "fast decks"? Just aggro or also midrange decks? How is being "best" defined? Winrate? Laddering speed? And what is meant by "always"? The last really strong aggro deck that I remember was Murloc Paladin in C&C. The other top decks were Control warlock and cubelock (slower decks). Before that Jade Druid, Raza-Priest and tempo rogue (with 7 drops) were Tier 1.
It just seems to me that someone who prefers to play control decks with attrition style perceives the meta as fast just because every deck he meets is faster than his fatigue mage.
Sure, but these 8 are not aggro either.
From VS of last week (since today's hasn't come out yet):
Tier 1 are Taunt Warrior, Token Druid, Even Warlock, Odd Paladin, Big Spell Mage, Spell Hunter and Odd Rogue
Tier 2 are Cube Warlock, Even Shaman, Kathrena Hunter, Quest Priest and Shudderwock Shaman
Only 2 Aggro with Odd Paladin and Odd Rogue. The Combo decks play very similarly to Control in most matchups which furthers the point that the meta is mostly "controlly". The midrange decks play initially as the control role against those two aggro decks as well.
I'd really not like to go back down this road. Suffice it to say, this is not a control heavy meta. It's slower than previous metas, I'll concede that. But to say this is a control heavy meta is to simply ignore the hard data.
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Yea agreed it's slow but not a control heavy. It's a slow combo meta.
agreed
I think this meta is better for slow decks at the moment, however one of the reasons people play fast deck is that cheap uneventful efficent minions that fast decks like to run are low rarity cards, thus they're affordable, they hardly go past rare otherwise..... well just see the problem when they announced Town Crier people complained about it being epic while slow decks usually rely on a bunch of legendary/epic win conditions or defensive tools to be formed, i mean some have work arounds i played control warrior back in ebta with 2x Boulderfist Ogre because i didn't have Cairne Bloodhoof andYsera so the ogres rounded up rag and grom as threats and still baited removal, but that's not the case with all of the control decks,