Hearthpwn

Quote from RAGEdarky >>

What to do when HS just doesn't let you win? I've started my run mid rank3 this morning and now I'm rank5 0 stars, lost 100% of my games with 3 different decks, not a single chance to win.

 There's three methods you can use from here and they aren't exclusive to each other:

1. Improve your skill.  As I said, while you struggle to get out of rank 5 this month, the pro players have LONG since flew up to legend.  That means that skill ceilings aren't holding them back.  It means there's more for you to learn. Otherwise rank 5-1 would be just as easy for you as it is for the folks who grab rank 100 slots on the first few days of the month.  

You said you know the cards and what decks to use.  That's fine but that's a small piece of what the upper tournament folks worry about.  Those people worry more about matchups.  You know cubelock.  But do you know exactly how cubelock vs big spell mage works?  Or cubelock vs Recruit hunter? or vs Odd-Rogue?  And that's a serious question that need a serious answer beyond "well I just win/lose." How cubelock is played against Big Spell is very different from the match against Odd Rogue.  Most players don't see it that way and just focus on "how to play as cubelock."  Most players suck.  Don't play that way.  Even your mulligan should be different depending on your opponent, not just your deck.  

If there's 3 decks that you play and you face about 6 different decks regularly, that's 18 different matchups you should be tracking, with different mulligans, playstyles, things to watch for, and avenues to win.  

Are you thinking ahead on your turns?  How many turns ahead?  How good at you at reading your opponent's cards?  Are you keeping track of the cards they are holding and what they could be?  Do you judge what card they got based on how fast/slow they respond?  Do you track the mulligan to note what cards they held and know what they would be based on the matchup?  If you aren't, it's time to up your game since these are all the basic elements of competitive play, and you've run out of casuals to fight.  Your opponents aren't thinking this way at rank 5.  They are semi-competitive but not taking it seriously.  If you want to get past them, you need to stop thinking like them and think better.

That's not being all "OMG hearthstone is so skillful."  Hearthstone's declaration of being a 'low skill game' is legitimate.  Starcraft and LoL players would LOVE to ONLY have to worry about the above.  Compared to many competitive games, Hearthstone is much easier.  But there's still a ceiling, and 99% of the playerbase can't even get off the skill floor.  

Yes, that's just 1.

2. Pick a deck and stick with it.  You shouldn't be changing decks over and over, trying to 'chase' the meta.  deck changing is a more casual play move to avoid bordom, but it doesn't help your win percentage.  You should be picking your deck based on your OVERALL meta.  You should be tracking your opponents over a period of time, then plopping them down as data so you have a readout of what decks you face the most often.  THEN you can determine which deck, and tech card changes within that deck, to choose.  Find the deck/tech that gives you over 50% against most of your opponents, then SPAM it.  

If you picked right you will grow eventually.  If you face a bad matchup, try to win but don't worry about the loss.  Remember, if you're deck has a 60% win rate against the field it means 4 in 10 WILL be losses.  So long as your opponents remain in the same meta you calculated, that Rogue that got a 12/12 Van at turn 2 won't matter.  Only worry if you start regularly losing the matches you SHOULD be winning.

3. Defeat your Luck.  Luck isn't a stat you're stuck with.  You aren't magically less or more lucky.  We're all playing the same game and seeing the same Druids with perfect ramps and the same paladins that somehow push our removal to the bottom of the deck.  Luck and Variance are factors when you only play a few games just as throwing 10 coins can end up with 9 heads.  The more you play the more those bad luck games get off-set by the games where you came out lucky.  Play enough and coins drop heads ~50.% of the time and dice drop 1s 16%.  If you suffer to luck, just play more and it'll even out.  If you play A LOT and you still can't get ahead, you're done talking about luck and you have other problems so fix them, keep your games played stat high, and leave luck for the casual players and folks looking for excuses.

TL:DR answer, Stop deck switching and go use data to pick the right deck.  Stop playing semi-pro and play like a pro.  Play enough games so that luck doesn't matter and stop caring about luck.

Bunch of netdecking retards in this game

I try every T1 deck and the matchmaking is always against me ! The Law of 50% win I supposed. But, my winrate is worst ! And i Know how to play ! :(

Quote from HYPSO >>

I try every T1 deck and the matchmaking is always against me ! The Law of 50% win I supposed. But, my winrate is worst ! And i Know how to play ! :(

 One of the worst ways to deal with matchmaking is to 'chase' the meta.  That is if you lose to an aggro deck you swap into anti-aggro, then get slammed by control, so you go anti-control.  It almost maximizes your losses this way as, chances are, your opponents will not come in waves but will be more staggered.

If deck is your issue your solution is tracking.  Track you games over time and look at the percentages of each type of opponent.  Then look for a deck that has an advantage with over 50% of the field.  Then stick to that deck and focus more on overall results rather than That Loss or that String of losses.  

Also I meet a lot of different matchups, so it meaning we finally have a diverse meta which is good. Also out of hundreds of thousands of players just somebody will go 0-15. It will happen even to pros at some point because of bad luck.

I went 35-12 from rank 5 on with my main deck (74% winrate), including a 14 game winstreak to rank 1-4 stars then fell to rank 1-2 stars, then another 5 game win streak to legend.  You just heave to learn the meta better and stop tilting. If youre as good as you say you are then you should already know this.

Quote from iandakar >>

Quote from RAGEdarky >>

What to do when HS just doesn't let you win? I've started my run mid rank3 this morning and now I'm rank5 0 stars, lost 100% of my games with 3 different decks, not a single chance to win.

 There's three methods you can use from here and they aren't exclusive to each other:

1. Improve your skill.  As I said, while you struggle to get out of rank 5 this month, the pro players have LONG since flew up to legend.  That means that skill ceilings aren't holding them back.  It means there's more for you to learn. Otherwise rank 5-1 would be just as easy for you as it is for the folks who grab rank 100 slots on the first few days of the month.  

You said you know the cards and what decks to use.  That's fine but that's a small piece of what the upper tournament folks worry about.  Those people worry more about matchups.  You know cubelock.  But do you know exactly how cubelock vs big spell mage works?  Or cubelock vs Recruit hunter? or vs Odd-Rogue?  And that's a serious question that need a serious answer beyond "well I just win/lose." How cubelock is played against Big Spell is very different from the match against Odd Rogue.  Most players don't see it that way and just focus on "how to play as cubelock."  Most players suck.  Don't play that way.  Even your mulligan should be different depending on your opponent, not just your deck.  

If there's 3 decks that you play and you face about 6 different decks regularly, that's 18 different matchups you should be tracking, with different mulligans, playstyles, things to watch for, and avenues to win.  

Are you thinking ahead on your turns?  How many turns ahead?  How good at you at reading your opponent's cards?  Are you keeping track of the cards they are holding and what they could be?  Do you judge what card they got based on how fast/slow they respond?  Do you track the mulligan to note what cards they held and know what they would be based on the matchup?  If you aren't, it's time to up your game since these are all the basic elements of competitive play, and you've run out of casuals to fight.  Your opponents aren't thinking this way at rank 5.  They are semi-competitive but not taking it seriously.  If you want to get past them, you need to stop thinking like them and think better.

That's not being all "OMG hearthstone is so skillful."  Hearthstone's declaration of being a 'low skill game' is legitimate.  Starcraft and LoL players would LOVE to ONLY have to worry about the above.  Compared to many competitive games, Hearthstone is much easier.  But there's still a ceiling, and 99% of the playerbase can't even get off the skill floor.  

 

Yes, that's just 1.

2. Pick a deck and stick with it.  You shouldn't be changing decks over and over, trying to 'chase' the meta.  deck changing is a more casual play move to avoid bordom, but it doesn't help your win percentage.  You should be picking your deck based on your OVERALL meta.  You should be tracking your opponents over a period of time, then plopping them down as data so you have a readout of what decks you face the most often.  THEN you can determine which deck, and tech card changes within that deck, to choose.  Find the deck/tech that gives you over 50% against most of your opponents, then SPAM it.  

If you picked right you will grow eventually.  If you face a bad matchup, try to win but don't worry about the loss.  Remember, if you're deck has a 60% win rate against the field it means 4 in 10 WILL be losses.  So long as your opponents remain in the same meta you calculated, that Rogue that got a 12/12 Van at turn 2 won't matter.  Only worry if you start regularly losing the matches you SHOULD be winning.

3. Defeat your Luck.  Luck isn't a stat you're stuck with.  You aren't magically less or more lucky.  We're all playing the same game and seeing the same Druids with perfect ramps and the same paladins that somehow push our removal to the bottom of the deck.  Luck and Variance are factors when you only play a few games just as throwing 10 coins can end up with 9 heads.  The more you play the more those bad luck games get off-set by the games where you came out lucky.  Play enough and coins drop heads ~50.% of the time and dice drop 1s 16%.  If you suffer to luck, just play more and it'll even out.  If you play A LOT and you still can't get ahead, you're done talking about luck and you have other problems so fix them, keep your games played stat high, and leave luck for the casual players and folks looking for excuses.

 

TL:DR answer, Stop deck switching and go use data to pick the right deck.  Stop playing semi-pro and play like a pro.  Play enough games so that luck doesn't matter and stop caring about luck.

 

I humbly request the mods to close this thread; if this doesn't help OP, nothing will. 

(Very well written @iandakar, the way good players should be able to think about the game)

The problem is that I don't have enough time to play in ladder, I hardly play more than 100-150 ladder matches per month, the rest goes to tournaments. Because tournaments are mostly played in the evening or weekends, I can play ladder only during working hours (I'm allowed to do that coz I'm kinda a small boss), which means I don't use any trackers and sometimes even get distracted from process.

i can't understand what are you guys complain about lol. Hearthstone collectible card game, skill not included. Just relax and make fun

I am having a lot of luck with Tempo Rogue and Baku Pally. People say Zoolock is good...but it is very much a "swing" archetype at the moment where you win like 90% of the time if you draw Prince Keleseth on-curve and lose like 80% of the time if you do not so while the overall winrate is high...the gameplay experience...well take a guess at how it feels to play with board clears flying everywhere.

tl;dr The problem is not the meta. The problem is you seem to suck at playing around the meta and playing decks that are good at a given time.

I'll be honest:

I watch Firebat and on one of his vods someone asked what the best deck to climb the ladder is. He said Taunt Druid. I buckled down, learned the deck, got to 5 and peaked at 4 with 3 stars. Dropped down to 5 and said screw it and built a Mage Elemental deck of my creation, although terribly unoriginal. With it, I've peaked at 3 with 1 star.

TL;DR:

Make a deck you enjoy and play.

Quote from RAGEdarky >>

The problem is that I don't have enough time to play in ladder, I hardly play more than 100-150 ladder matches per month, the rest goes to tournaments. Because tournaments are mostly played in the evening or weekends, I can play ladder only during working hours (I'm allowed to do that coz I'm kinda a small boss), which means I don't use any trackers and sometimes even get distracted from process.

 Firstly, accept then that your ability to climb, in this specific case, has nothing to do with the meta or balance or luck or any of those factors.  

Going from Casual to Semi-Competitive to Competitive requires a time commitment.  You CANNOT.. **CANNOT** understand how a deck operates by just playing dailies even if you stick to the same deck.  It's just not enough games.  If you're the type that must change decks regularly due to entertainment or a fear of matchmaking or any other reason as well, your cause is hopeless.  No amount of fussing about grind or the staleness of the meta will change that.  You will never grow past where you are now this way.

Note that I do not talk about you. I'm talking about myself.  This is the fate of the casual player, and this is my world.  So long as this remains my world I will never EVER learn enough about the game to become semi-competitive or even competitive.  I've accepted this and play accordingly.

As for you, as a semi-competitive player (note that I'm just using the term 'competitive' to refer to folks who push for high end tournaments like HTC and the top 100 of legend, so you could say you are 'competitive' and they are 'professional') you are brushing close to the limits of your playstyle.  You still have avenues you can take though. 

For example, while you can't track your games, you CAN focus on matchups.  Choose a deck and just stick with it.  Then learn how it's meant to be played against each deck type you face.  Worry less about pushing for legend so much and more about this understanding, so a win that didn't teach you anything means less than a loss that causes you to 'get' how, say, Odd Paladin vs Control Warlock plays out.  That you can get in both tournament and ladder play without a tracker.  Same goes for skills like card reading or the mulligan.  

Stop thinking in Luck and think in Probabilities.  No more "I'm lucky/unlucky."  instead more of "My deck shoudl have a 55% chance to win against his."  and asking "Do I have a better chance to win if I go all out now or if I defend and wait for my win condition?"  When you get to the point when your opponent gets that .05% chance draw and wins and you go "I lost, but most times I would've won so I made the right choice." and feel good ok about it (who feels good losing? :P but you can be willing to accept it) then you're on your way.

Just know that you will be limited compared to, say, the pros who can dump 8-12 hours a day into the game and thus get more out of it.  Not as limited as I and I don't think you're to remain stuck at rank 5 forever, but it ain't going to be easy from here on out.

My goal every month is to get Rank 5, I'm a casual player, but I play every day, in average one and half hour a day... So since the new ranked mode I could get rank 5 every season, but this season is specially hard, i fell like you said, "shit" i just cant get there... so much rng, losing stupid games, getting totally wrecked by some decks... I just didn't give it up, and could get there with a Spell Hunter Rank 8 -> 5 , I got something like 8-0, so just dont give up, and play with patience... one time you get there again...

But, oooh man, please, we need the new expansion, because this meta is too boring... now that i got rank 5 stop playing HS... and I will play another game...

Quote from tuliosimoes >>

My goal every month is to get Rank 5, I'm a casual player, but I play every day, in average one and half hour a day... So since the new ranked mode I could get rank 5 every season, but this season is specially hard, i fell like you said, "shit" i just cant get there... so much rng, losing stupid games, getting totally wrecked by some decks... I just didn't give it up, and could get there with a Spell Hunter Rank 8 -> 5 , I got something like 8-0, so just dont give up, and play with patience... one time you get there again...

But, oooh man, please, we need the new expansion, because this meta is too boring... now that i got rank 5 stop playing HS... and I will play another game...

 

 Same problem, but after going from 6 to 10 I just gave up. Next month will be my time to shine.

It´s booring if you copy metadecks.... I had a hard time adapting and optimizing one of my decks and it got frustrating but then i got a version that works (somtimes its unbelivable how impactful exchangign three cards can be ....). My deck has a hard time against the dragon control priests and but otherwise is a blast.... Of course you have to think in win statistics.. I often loose favored matches just by a perfect opponent draw or crappy own. You face good (metacop&paste) decks and you face people that can play so don`t expect high winrates, especially when netdecking ...

So don`t rant about luck it´s part of most card games. I played MTG ver successful in the past and with 60 card decks its even more rng.

So i currently am over 60% with a deck far off any meta. An odd shaman that is actually a challenge to play. It´s quite unvorgiving on even slight miscalculations. You need to think ahead with it which makes it even more enjoyable for me. 

zz

i am guessing you are standard, so maybe put together a evenLock, they have defiles, and hellfires to stop aggro, and large taunts are nice, and you have lots of draw so not getting good draw is less likely

Quote from iandakar >>

Quote from RAGEdarky >>

The problem is that I don't have enough time to play in ladder, I hardly play more than 100-150 ladder matches per month, the rest goes to tournaments. Because tournaments are mostly played in the evening or weekends, I can play ladder only during working hours (I'm allowed to do that coz I'm kinda a small boss), which means I don't use any trackers and sometimes even get distracted from process.

 Firstly, accept then that your ability to climb, in this specific case, has nothing to do with the meta or balance or luck or any of those factors.  

Going from Casual to Semi-Competitive to Competitive requires a time commitment.  You CANNOT.. **CANNOT** understand how a deck operates by just playing dailies even if you stick to the same deck.  It's just not enough games.  If you're the type that must change decks regularly due to entertainment or a fear of matchmaking or any other reason as well, your cause is hopeless.  No amount of fussing about grind or the staleness of the meta will change that.  You will never grow past where you are now this way.

Note that I do not talk about you. I'm talking about myself.  This is the fate of the casual player, and this is my world.  So long as this remains my world I will never EVER learn enough about the game to become semi-competitive or even competitive.  I've accepted this and play accordingly.

 

As for you, as a semi-competitive player (note that I'm just using the term 'competitive' to refer to folks who push for high end tournaments like HTC and the top 100 of legend, so you could say you are 'competitive' and they are 'professional') you are brushing close to the limits of your playstyle.  You still have avenues you can take though. 

For example, while you can't track your games, you CAN focus on matchups.  Choose a deck and just stick with it.  Then learn how it's meant to be played against each deck type you face.  Worry less about pushing for legend so much and more about this understanding, so a win that didn't teach you anything means less than a loss that causes you to 'get' how, say, Odd Paladin vs Control Warlock plays out.  That you can get in both tournament and ladder play without a tracker.  Same goes for skills like card reading or the mulligan.  

Stop thinking in Luck and think in Probabilities.  No more "I'm lucky/unlucky."  instead more of "My deck shoudl have a 55% chance to win against his."  and asking "Do I have a better chance to win if I go all out now or if I defend and wait for my win condition?"  When you get to the point when your opponent gets that .05% chance draw and wins and you go "I lost, but most times I would've won so I made the right choice." and feel good ok about it (who feels good losing? :P but you can be willing to accept it) then you're on your way.

Just know that you will be limited compared to, say, the pros who can dump 8-12 hours a day into the game and thus get more out of it.  Not as limited as I and I don't think you're to remain stuck at rank 5 forever, but it ain't going to be easy from here on out.