You win some. You lose some. That's how the game, and life, works. There isn't going to be one deck that just CRUSHES everything EVERY game. Sometimes you get outplayed, outdrawn, or simply RNG was on their side and you accept it and move on to the next game.
ideally shudderwock will repeat hagatha and primordial drake's battlecries which will clear the board
edit: oops sorry i didn't see that you said you don't want shudderwock
LOL
Off-topic: I hope you never try Magic: The Gathering Arena. You'd be pulling your hair out and their would be snapped keyboards and holes in your walls.
To me it seems like we found a solution, thanks for helping me out. Feel free to further discuss the situation, if you want.
What I want to add is: The only thing making me angry, is how I have to play around a particular card by not playing anything, while they just slam their shit on the board.
Alanna is not an easy card to charge up, or play. It's difficult to survive long enough to play, and it gives your opponent a turn to answer (and at least prevent lethal), unlike Guldan and doomguards. As a win condition, it's powerful but hardly unblockable or impossible to stop. Especially since it frequently can't be played at turn 9 because you haven't played enough spells. When I play control shaman I keep in mind that Alanna is a possibility (although lots of BSM players don't even run her because she just gets cleared by warlocks or the mirror). Lightning storm and volcano together will just about clear her, and will clear her with highrolls on lightning storm. Kalimos and lightning storm will clear. This is assuming you have nothing to trade into the dragons. With hagatha you often generate the odd damage card too which might help. Hell, the win condition I use with shaman (spellstone, snowfury giant, ancestral healing, ancestral spirit) is far harder to counter, although also as hard to play. Alanna is not nearly as big of a problem as Jaina. But remember, BSM needs an active win condition, and that is what Alanna is - an active win condition. Sindragosa and Jaina are two others. Aside from value, can you say that your deck actually has a win condition? Maybe if you had a closer too, Alanna wouldn't be an issue.
Its one of the current biggest weaknesses of Shaman that it lacks good solid board clears that dont have a downside (in the way that Lightning Storm has the overload etc). Druid suffers a similar problem but makes up for it with big board presence and reloads etc whereas Shaman cant do that as easily.
But what Shaman does do well is pressure and tempo and this may be what you need to consider to beat Jaina (if you really cant hold of your Murmuring combo until Alanna appears).
I believe this pretty much echos what others have said on here so I think thats the answer you may have to consider.
Alternatively there “may” be another answer in the next expansion but we dont know. Wishful thinking etc.
I destroyed a big spell mage and elemental control mage with my battlecry shaman in to fatigue, despite being in Wild I only run lightning storm and had no issues. But it sounds like you need a finisher during these match-ups, maybe try putting in Al'Akir? Also, Dragoncaller needs serious set-up for her to be viable, if you can't handle multiple board clears leading up to her being played you should probably try another deck, or get rid of the slower elemental minions.
Also, desregarding Shudderwock cus you're too cool to run it, is dumb af, especially with multiple battlecry minions in the deck amd will help you clear Dragoncaller...
Yes, I run Grumble in the deck, but he's very unreliable, because control mages tend to destroy everything as soon as they hit the board. Funny how everyone (not just control!) do this with strong battlecry elementals. Grumble was never an actual meta card, yet everyone plays around him.
I'd like to add, please stay away from comments like "I destroy XY deck with my shaman deck" because it's not like i'm being hard-countered. I win reasonable amount of games against these mages. The problem is, when I lose, it's because of the particular card we're talking about, and the solutions we found in this thread are either - keep bigass multiple card aoe combos for this card - or - don't play anything, so they can't take advantage of their op removals and the Frost Lich hero power, which makes it easier to deal with Alanna herself.
Yes, I run Grumble in the deck, but he's very unreliable, because control mages tend to destroy everything as soon as they hit the board. Funny how even midrange players do this with strong battlecry elementals. Grumble was never an actual meta card, yet everyone plays around him.
I'd like to add, please stay away from comments like "I destroy XY deck with my shaman deck" because it's not like i'm being hard-countered. I win reasonable amount of games against these mages. The problem is, when I lose, it's because of the particular card we're talking about, and the solutions we found in this thread are either - keep bigass multiple card aoe combos for this card - or - don't play anything, so they can't take advantage of their op removals and the Frost Lich hero power.
If you win against them, then what is the problem? You can't expect to always win, and Alanna is not a be card that needs to be nerfed, it requires the other player to play six high cost spells for maximum value, play Alanna, and have all the dragons survive. It's powerful but it's supposed to be. You also can't say you've won the game and out controlled them, because you haven't - they held onto Alanna as a win condition and won.
Yes, I run Grumble in the deck, but he's very unreliable, because control mages tend to destroy everything as soon as they hit the board. Funny how everyone (not just control!) do this with strong battlecry elementals. Grumble was never an actual meta card, yet everyone plays around him.
I'd like to add, please stay away from comments like "I destroy XY deck with my shaman deck" because it's not like i'm being hard-countered. I win reasonable amount of games against these mages. The problem is, when I lose, it's because of the particular card we're talking about, and the solutions we found in this thread are either - keep bigass multiple card aoe combos for this card - or - don't play anything, so they can't take advantage of their op removals and the Frost Lich hero power, which makes it easier to deal with Alanna herself.
I think Grumble has only recently become a usable card with the addition of Shudderwock. A d because of this, people are now more wary of him. But prior to that he never saw play. I’d had a Grumble sitting in my deck for months without really being usable.
And I hear / agree with your sentiment about players who just say “Well I am amazing with my Shaman deck; so I dont know why you’re having trouble, so you must just be bad.” That certainly doesnt help you or anyone to resolve the issue.
I think the essence of the solution is as you’ve already surmised: that shaman doesnt have very efficient and easy removal options (in Standard) so we are forced to compensate for that weakness by strengthening other areas.
We likely need to accept that Frost Lich Jaina is going to be one of our anti-matches for this deck and we will always have a tough time to win. Perhaps that is little compensation, for sure, but the best solution seems to be to play to the strengths of your deck here. With Hagatha, you have huge value at you disposal. So I guess the key is to focus on pressure. Get lethal on the board so the opponent is hounded out of playing Alanna and has to focus on trying to keep up.
Hagatha vs Jaina strikes me as a full valu vs value war the whole way. As to which is better, thats a tough call that I’m not quite ready to make! Heh!
Primordial Drake + Hagatha + Shudderwock. If you're control, the Drake is good addition. Also if you only want to to counter Alanna, one would be enough. And if you don't want to run Shudderwock, well, then just accept that big spell mage is an unfavorable match up for you.
I'm not aiming for Legend, so I didn't wanted to cut actual elemental synergy cards, which I like. :( I guess I wait for the nerfs to come, if too many ppl turn to the shaman class, I'll awaken the inner hipster and start playing Ebon Blade Uther decks. If not, I'll consider My jaws doing some biting, and my claws catching.
try primordial drake and shudderwock
ideally shudderwock will repeat hagatha and primordial drake's battlecries which will clear the board
edit: oops sorry i didn't see that you said you don't want to include shudderwock to the list
You win some. You lose some. That's how the game, and life, works. There isn't going to be one deck that just CRUSHES everything EVERY game. Sometimes you get outplayed, outdrawn, or simply RNG was on their side and you accept it and move on to the next game.
Off-topic: I hope you never try Magic: The Gathering Arena. You'd be pulling your hair out and their would be snapped keyboards and holes in your walls.
Speed. Violence. Momentum.
Oh, and my alternate end game threat is Ysera (as a plan b). If you get Ysera awakens (big if) that's a counter.
play a better class
Say "Wow" for RNG!
Its one of the current biggest weaknesses of Shaman that it lacks good solid board clears that dont have a downside (in the way that Lightning Storm has the overload etc). Druid suffers a similar problem but makes up for it with big board presence and reloads etc whereas Shaman cant do that as easily.
But what Shaman does do well is pressure and tempo and this may be what you need to consider to beat Jaina (if you really cant hold of your Murmuring combo until Alanna appears).
I believe this pretty much echos what others have said on here so I think thats the answer you may have to consider.
Alternatively there “may” be another answer in the next expansion but we dont know. Wishful thinking etc.
I destroyed a big spell mage and elemental control mage with my battlecry shaman in to fatigue, despite being in Wild I only run lightning storm and had no issues. But it sounds like you need a finisher during these match-ups, maybe try putting in Al'Akir? Also, Dragoncaller needs serious set-up for her to be viable, if you can't handle multiple board clears leading up to her being played you should probably try another deck, or get rid of the slower elemental minions.
Also, desregarding Shudderwock cus you're too cool to run it, is dumb af, especially with multiple battlecry minions in the deck amd will help you clear Dragoncaller...
गञ्जा गञ्जा
Yes, I run Grumble in the deck, but he's very unreliable, because control mages tend to destroy everything as soon as they hit the board. Funny how everyone (not just control!) do this with strong battlecry elementals. Grumble was never an actual meta card, yet everyone plays around him.
I'd like to add, please stay away from comments like "I destroy XY deck with my shaman deck" because it's not like i'm being hard-countered. I win reasonable amount of games against these mages. The problem is, when I lose, it's because of the particular card we're talking about, and the solutions we found in this thread are either - keep bigass multiple card aoe combos for this card - or - don't play anything, so they can't take advantage of their op removals and the Frost Lich hero power, which makes it easier to deal with Alanna herself.
Primordial Drake + Hagatha + Shudderwock. If you're control, the Drake is good addition. Also if you only want to to counter Alanna, one would be enough. And if you don't want to run Shudderwock, well, then just accept that big spell mage is an unfavorable match up for you.
I'm not aiming for Legend, so I didn't wanted to cut actual elemental synergy cards, which I like. :(
I guess I wait for the nerfs to come, if too many ppl turn to the shaman class, I'll awaken the inner hipster and start playing Ebon Blade Uther decks. If not, I'll consider My jaws doing some biting, and my claws catching.
Deathwing
Anomalus
At least it has elemental synergy 😂 I know its a mage card, but it made me chuckle
Edit:sorry, I know that was little help but I liked the idea.
So try to deicover second kalimos from servant. Or get it back with gorgonzola or brewmater
Kill them quicker.
Deathwing... when you absolutely, positively need to kill every m—- f—— in the room.
Accept no substitutes.... 😎
Play a better deck.
If you play a meme deck, accept what comes with it and expect to lose a lot.