I'm sure everyone is sick and tired of seeing this kind of post. I'll probably sound like a broken record at this point; I guarantee if you look up "Cubelock nerf", you'll find thousands of posts complaining about this very topic. With this said, I wanted to put my own two cents in on the subject. Personally, I find Warlock quite frustrating to play against. This will be a long post, so if you're planning on reading the whole thing, grab your popcorn and find a comfy seat. I'm going to try my best to highlight what I believe to be overpowered about Warlock right now and how this makes the game unfun. The main problem is how flexible the archetype is. With cards like Doomguard + Carnivorous Cube, Warlock can set up for super easy lethals (even getting up to 3 doomguards on the board at once in some instances). It has completely insane hero sustain. Warlocks pretty much mitigate the damage their opponent does for the first 5-7 turns as well as the damage they take from their hero power, and set themselves up incredibly well for extremely potent tempo plays in the late game. It's essentially like the warlock gets to block most of the damage coming towards them, and they get to quickly whittle down the opponent while simultaneously building their board and gaining tempo. Something about this seems unfair right? Shouldn't the Warlock have to sacrifice something in order to gain all of these overwhelming advantages? Yes, I agree Warlocks do sacrifice life totals from time to time. However, they can get up to 30 health in healing from just the 2 cards I mentioned above. This means that if Warlock is able to play them at full value, you essentially have to kill that Warlock twice. Considering the additional value they bring, it is very strong (overtuned in my opinion) in tandem with the other parts of this deck.
In the past, control Warlock archetypes have been balanced by limited healing options. Back before Kobolds & Catacombs, Warlock didn't have cards like Dark Pact, Lesser Amethyst Spellstone, or Bloodreaver Gul'dan. Dark Pact is LITERALLY just a better version of Sacrificial Pact, as it heals for 8 and can target any minion. The only drawback is 1 mana, but this is miniscule and its pros heavily outweight the cons. The closest we had to something like Lesser Amethyst Spellstone was Siphon Soul which cost 6 mana compared to Lesser Amethyst Spellstone's 4. Basically, the healing cards from the newer expansions are just better versions of ones from past expansions. This alone does not make Warlock overpowered or anti-fun.
On to the minions. If I had a dollar for every time I've played someone who got a Voidlord on turn 6 or 7, I'd probably have enough preorder every single new expansion for at least 4-5 years. People's answer to Voidlord in particular is always something like "Why didn't you play Spellbreaker", or "GIT GUD". Realistically, if you don't draw those 1 or 2 answers in your deck, your opponent can fish for Voidlord and suddenly you're looking at a 9 health taunt on turn 6 that spawns 3 (3) health taunt bodies. I hate to say it, but if this happens to you, you're pretty much SOL my friend. Now, if this happened every once in a while, I'd be perfectly ok with it. However, Warlock can consistently pull Voidlord turns before 9, and this is a major problem. With cards like Possessed Lackey and Skull of the Man'ari, it's quite likely that Warlock can have a Voidlord out before turn 9. Just in case you haven't had enough of Voidlord or Doomguard, Warlock has Carnivorous Cube to literally multiply their value, and Bloodreaver Gul'dan to bring back those evil purple menaces or multiple Doomguard for smorcing.
Just in case you somehow managed to build a board amidst all of the lifestealing shenaningans and Doomguard or Voidlord, Warlock has about 6-8 "fuck you" removal spells. Good luck trying to play something with threats like Lord Godfrey, Defile, Hellfire, Mortal Coil and Doomsayer around. If you somehow do manage to get a few minions to stick, they'll just pop out a sick Voidlord on turn 6 and then proceed to Carnivorous Cube you into oblivion. I already mentioned this bit before, but figured I'd say it twice for good measure.
To wrap it all up, Warlock as a whole is just too damn consistent. It has a plethora of options that makes it so that anyone who isn't playing a control deck with tons of removal loses a lot more often than not. It's wide variety of healing in combination with rediculous tempo plays on curve and ressurection of major threats makes it oppressive. It's not fun to play against, and it feels real shitty when your opponent has something like 2 Doomguard cards and 3 Voidlord cardson the board. Again; I'm pointing out some of the more extreme situations, but believe it or not they happen more often than you might think. I wanted to mention that I didn't talk about a lot of the tech cards you can add because that stuff is pretty common already in other decks. Feel free to disagree with me or to start a discussion. I put a lot of time into writing this post, I hope you guys found something you thought was worth taking note of in this long post. If you made it this far, congrats. I hope everyone has a fantastic day/evening ;).
TL;DR Warlock is too consistent, flexible, and has too many answers for it to be considered balanced.
I'm sure everyone is tired of seeing this kind of post. I'll probably sound like a broken record at this point; I guarantee if you look up "Cubelock nerf", you'll find thousands of posts. I'm going to try and keep it relatively short. The main problem is how flexible the archetype is. With cards like card]Doomguard[/card] + Carnivorous Cube, warlock can set up for super easy lethals (even getting up to 3 doomguards on the board at once in some instances). It has completely insane hero sustain. Warlocks pretty much mitigate the damage their opponent does for the first 5-7 turns as well as the damage they take from their hero power, and set themselves up incredibly well for extremely potent tempo plays in the late game. It's essentially like the warlock gets to block most of the damage coming towards them, and they get to quickly whittle down the opponent while simultaneously building their board and gaining tempo. Something about this seems unfair right? Shouldn't the warlock have to sacrifice something in order to gain all of these overwhelming advantages?
Yes, so please use them instead of adding to the pool.
I'm sure everyone is sick and tired of seeing this kind of post.
If you find yourself saying this before writing a post, maybe you shouldn't post it because a) you are 100% correct and b) you aren't really adding anything new to the discussion.
I'm sure everyone is sick and tired of seeing this kind of post.
If you find yourself saying this before writing a post, maybe you shouldn't post it because a) you are 100% correct and b) you aren't really adding anything new to the discussion.
I advice you to play cubelock for at least few weeks consistently and then return to your post. Turn 6 voidlord doesn't mean you survived the agro match. Turn 6 voidlord means nothing in compare with turn 6 6 mana 16/16 divided for 2 bodies. 2 x 8hp heal and 2x spellstone doesn't mean you will survive against tempo mage. DK guldan with wall of doomguards doesn't mean you had out value the big spell mage or hadronox druid. Turn 6 whatever do nothing against any kind of polymorph. Think outside the box then yell. If you play brainless shit that can curve 5 first turns and win or not don't expect more. Ooh should I add to my list combo decks? What you want 2x40damage mind blast priest or turn 6 endless 5/5 quest rogue charge?
When youre done with salting, try pepper!
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-let´s negotiate: you concede and I let you live...
I'm sure everyone is tired of seeing this kind of post. I'll probably sound like a broken record at this point; I guarantee if you look up "Cubelock nerf", you'll find thousands of posts
Yes, so please use them instead of adding to the pool.
I advice you to play cubelock for at least few weeks consistently and then return to your post. Turn 6 voidlord doesn't mean you survived the agro match. Turn 6 voidlord means nothing in compare with turn 6 6 mana 16/16 divided for 2 bodies. 2 x 8hp heal and 2x spellstone doesn't mean you will survive against tempo mage. DK guldan with wall of doomguards doesn't mean you had out value the big spell mage or hadronox druid. Turn 6 whatever do nothing against any kind of polymorph. Think outside the box then yell. If you play brainless shit that can curve 5 first turns and win or not don't expect more. Ooh should I add to my list combo decks? What you want 2x40damage mind blast priest or turn 6 endless 5/5 quest rogue charge?
Exactly this. If someone chooses to play fast and easy to play deck, it must not bitch about control tools. You already have time advantage in the stupid ladder, you want everthing mofo.
Lol. I played Rinlock, and while it's fun af and usually eats the Tempo Druids, Hadronox is a huge issue, The Caverns Below is a huge issue, and Control Priest eats Warlock in general. You also have a deck that literally throws burn at your face and Counterspells to fuck your healing... Like, I'm sorry but Warlock isn't difficult to beat. The only people that are bitching are the hyper aggro, board centric decks out there. Take the L with your Baku the Mooneater decks and stfu lol because aggro is, and always has been, absolutely degenerate. Is control Warlock a good deck? Fuck yes. Is it invincible? Fuck no.
I beat a Cubelock today on the ladder. First game I'd won vs. Cubelock in a while. I almost cried. Then I faced another one two games later. Then I really cried.
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I'm sure everyone is sick and tired of seeing this kind of post. I'll probably sound like a broken record at this point; I guarantee if you look up "Cubelock nerf", you'll find thousands of posts complaining about this very topic. With this said, I wanted to put my own two cents in on the subject. Personally, I find Warlock quite frustrating to play against. This will be a long post, so if you're planning on reading the whole thing, grab your popcorn and find a comfy seat. I'm going to try my best to highlight what I believe to be overpowered about Warlock right now and how this makes the game unfun. The main problem is how flexible the archetype is. With cards like Doomguard + Carnivorous Cube, Warlock can set up for super easy lethals (even getting up to 3 doomguards on the board at once in some instances). It has completely insane hero sustain. Warlocks pretty much mitigate the damage their opponent does for the first 5-7 turns as well as the damage they take from their hero power, and set themselves up incredibly well for extremely potent tempo plays in the late game. It's essentially like the warlock gets to block most of the damage coming towards them, and they get to quickly whittle down the opponent while simultaneously building their board and gaining tempo. Something about this seems unfair right? Shouldn't the Warlock have to sacrifice something in order to gain all of these overwhelming advantages? Yes, I agree Warlocks do sacrifice life totals from time to time. However, they can get up to 30 health in healing from just the 2 cards I mentioned above. This means that if Warlock is able to play them at full value, you essentially have to kill that Warlock twice. Considering the additional value they bring, it is very strong (overtuned in my opinion) in tandem with the other parts of this deck.
In the past, control Warlock archetypes have been balanced by limited healing options. Back before Kobolds & Catacombs, Warlock didn't have cards like Dark Pact, Lesser Amethyst Spellstone, or Bloodreaver Gul'dan. Dark Pact is LITERALLY just a better version of Sacrificial Pact, as it heals for 8 and can target any minion. The only drawback is 1 mana, but this is miniscule and its pros heavily outweight the cons. The closest we had to something like Lesser Amethyst Spellstone was Siphon Soul which cost 6 mana compared to Lesser Amethyst Spellstone's 4. Basically, the healing cards from the newer expansions are just better versions of ones from past expansions. This alone does not make Warlock overpowered or anti-fun.
On to the minions. If I had a dollar for every time I've played someone who got a Voidlord on turn 6 or 7, I'd probably have enough preorder every single new expansion for at least 4-5 years. People's answer to Voidlord in particular is always something like "Why didn't you play Spellbreaker", or "GIT GUD". Realistically, if you don't draw those 1 or 2 answers in your deck, your opponent can fish for Voidlord and suddenly you're looking at a 9 health taunt on turn 6 that spawns 3 (3) health taunt bodies. I hate to say it, but if this happens to you, you're pretty much SOL my friend. Now, if this happened every once in a while, I'd be perfectly ok with it. However, Warlock can consistently pull Voidlord turns before 9, and this is a major problem. With cards like Possessed Lackey and Skull of the Man'ari, it's quite likely that Warlock can have a Voidlord out before turn 9. Just in case you haven't had enough of Voidlord or Doomguard, Warlock has Carnivorous Cube to literally multiply their value, and Bloodreaver Gul'dan to bring back those evil purple menaces or multiple Doomguard for smorcing.
Just in case you somehow managed to build a board amidst all of the lifestealing shenaningans and Doomguard or Voidlord, Warlock has about 6-8 "fuck you" removal spells. Good luck trying to play something with threats like Lord Godfrey, Defile, Hellfire, Mortal Coil and Doomsayer around. If you somehow do manage to get a few minions to stick, they'll just pop out a sick Voidlord on turn 6 and then proceed to Carnivorous Cube you into oblivion. I already mentioned this bit before, but figured I'd say it twice for good measure.
To wrap it all up, Warlock as a whole is just too damn consistent. It has a plethora of options that makes it so that anyone who isn't playing a control deck with tons of removal loses a lot more often than not. It's wide variety of healing in combination with rediculous tempo plays on curve and ressurection of major threats makes it oppressive. It's not fun to play against, and it feels real shitty when your opponent has something like 2 Doomguard cards and 3 Voidlord cardson the board. Again; I'm pointing out some of the more extreme situations, but believe it or not they happen more often than you might think. I wanted to mention that I didn't talk about a lot of the tech cards you can add because that stuff is pretty common already in other decks. Feel free to disagree with me or to start a discussion. I put a lot of time into writing this post, I hope you guys found something you thought was worth taking note of in this long post. If you made it this far, congrats. I hope everyone has a fantastic day/evening ;).
TL;DR Warlock is too consistent, flexible, and has too many answers for it to be considered balanced.
they do sacrifice, its called lifeforce for power, its just that now we get to replenish the lifeforce to sacrifice again and again and again
We get it...you don't like the current state of warlock. NO need for ANOTHER post.
Just out of curiosity have you played warlock? It’s not nearly as consistent as you let on.
I like em cuz I eat them with my tempomage xD all thoose taunts, who cares - eat my fireballs dude.
-let´s negotiate: you concede and I let you live...
Do or do not. There is no try.
-let´s negotiate: you concede and I let you live...
Warlock is prefectly fine except doomguard with cube combination which will most likely be nerfed soon.
I don't understand why you wasted your time writing a long ass post when we know that balance changes are coming.
Well, having a mage spamming fireballs at my face isn't much fun either. I would dare to say it is even less interactive.
Im sure the other 999 Warlock nerf threads needed another to be complete.
If you are in your first year of playing please read this post.
Dust does not burn a hole in the jar. Be careful what you craft, especially before and right after a rotation.
Just this was enough to see that OP was TL;DR.
Nothing new, passing on.
THIS IS GOATSE!
Lol. I played Rinlock, and while it's fun af and usually eats the Tempo Druids, Hadronox is a huge issue, The Caverns Below is a huge issue, and Control Priest eats Warlock in general. You also have a deck that literally throws burn at your face and Counterspells to fuck your healing... Like, I'm sorry but Warlock isn't difficult to beat. The only people that are bitching are the hyper aggro, board centric decks out there. Take the L with your Baku the Mooneater decks and stfu lol because aggro is, and always has been, absolutely degenerate. Is control Warlock a good deck? Fuck yes. Is it invincible? Fuck no.
Death to Aggro!
I beat a Cubelock today on the ladder. First game I'd won vs. Cubelock in a while. I almost cried. Then I faced another one two games later. Then I really cried.