You're bored with the meta, not because 2-3 decks are dominating it (we actually have many when you consider 2 different spiteful decks, Quest Rogue, Cubelock, Haddronox Druid, 3 variations for aggro pallies, etc), but because you can't play a game with the same meta for more than a month.
Players are tilted because some off the wall WW decks like Rush Hunter or something never became playable and you want all tier 1 & 2 decks nerfed so an unforeseen clown fiesta meta can completely overhaul the meta before a new expansion releases.
Yes I am slightly annoyed by all the requests for massive pendulum deck killing nerf threads.
Yes I am now adding to the overdone influx of nerf threads.
Yes I am mostly serious about my initial statements, and yes I do think the community in general is easily bored and impatient.
Here me out, everyone wants to enjoy the game and let others enjoy the game. It sucks to lose, especially when we all want to be creative and try wacky combos. I don't think it's a clown fiesta, I think people would just like more room to experiment with wacky (albeit, inconsistent) deck winning conditions.
Rereading your post, I may have just repeated what you said, but I think people's frustrations with a lack of variety is valid.
I've had a lot of fun with dumb Emeriss and Clockwork Automaton hunter decks, because they're just so over the top win instantly things it can't help but be hillarious. But I accept that it'll get aggroed down and outvalued when the slightest kink goes wrong.
Was slightly interested in your opinion of what I really want until you just told me what you really want. Then you lost me at the asterisk microphone drop. Sadly, you are no Chris Rock.
Agreed. People complain too much. How about instead of "I lost to this OP deck, NERF IT!" we see some "How about buff this Witchwood card to help this new deck compete with other good decks."
You're bored with the meta, not because 2-3 decks are dominating it (we actually have many when you consider 2 different spiteful decks, Quest Rogue, Cubelock, Haddronox Druid, 3 variations for aggro pallies, etc), but because you can't play a game with the same meta for more than a month.
You're bored with the meta, not because 2-3 decks are dominating it (we actually have many when you consider 2 different spiteful decks, Quest Rogue, Cubelock, Haddronox Druid, 3 variations for aggro pallies, etc), but because you can't play a game with the same meta for more than a month.
Hadronox Druid is a one-trick pony. Other than overwhelming Cubelocks, it's a meme deck; it utterly fails to Equality or Vanish; Hex and Polymorph also kinda wreck it. If it ever became a real deck Cubelocks would just run Tinkmaster Overspark to counter it. It's low Tier 3 at best.
Kingsbane Rogue is basically Year of the Mammoth's Hadronox: not a real deck.
Control Lock is basically just Cubelock that is worse against combo to be better against aggro and the mirror. Data collectors like HSReplay and Vicious Syndicate can even have trouble differentiating between archetypes because so many cards are shared.
So you basically listed one actual archetype there: Quest Rogue. And yes, I am pleased that Quest Rogue is viable again. But I'm not blind to how Quest Rogue and Cubelock reinforce each other; Cubelock is one of the few control decks capable of pressuring Quest Rogue enough to have only a slightly unfavorable matchup, while Quest Rogue suppresses slower control decks and draws in aggro for Cubelock to prey upon.
what i hate is people complain about losing. it's a game where there is a winner AND a loser. get over it! just make the game all 1/1's with no text so everything is fair and we all tie everytime
Beyond the upcoming balance changes, I'd also like to see a few quality of life changes.
One minor thing I realized is that it displays your hero after each game either with brilliant victory banners or torn and tattered defeat rags. After seeing a crushing defeat, that just rubs it in for me. I'd like to see the winner every time to stay positive in that one small way.
I would also like only two wins required to get 10 gold (or 5 gold per each win). I rarely have enough time in a day to win 30 games, much less PLAY 30 games in order to reach the 100 gold cap and make the most of that day's play time. Keeping the 100 gold cap is fine, I just wish it was a little easier to reach. I've heard/seen others suggest letting the dungeon run and monster hunt game modes offer gold but at a lower rate than PvP modes and I would be open for that as well.
Lastly, can they fix the buggy loading screens? it takes up to 30 seconds for my phone to become unfrozen after tapping the play button on the main screen and my laptop doesn't do much better.
Anyways, I'm glad they're looking to change some of the most, popular we'll say, cards on any forum site. I also find it a bit disturbing to see some classes get extremely efficient and/or powerful cards while other classes are struggling to find a win condition.
A recent post on Hearthstone.com or whatever (there was a thread on here with a link to it earlier) mentioned all the cards they were looking at including Spiteful Summoner and Kobold Librarian. I would like to see these cards changed, but not made to be unplayable as I think they can be powerful without being too powerful at their mana cost.
Spiteful Summoner should either be made a 1/1 so it would be a stronger Big-Time Racketeer OR make the summoned minion a 5/5 so you get a 5/5 and a 4/4 for 6 mana.
Kobold Librarian simply needs to be a 1/1. It already trades evenly with Silver Hand Recruits and the like, but other controlling decks don't have access to the strongest 1 and 2 mana minions, which are easily dealt with the 2/1 already on board. With or without the help of a Mortal Coil.
Quest Rogue is really draw dependent, but if I would see a change, I could imagine Preparation, Shadowstep, or Sonya Shadowdancer would see a change, most likely in the cost reduction area. Just one mana difference on any of those cards, or if Sonya returned an original copy would slow the deck down a little more without breaking it entirely.
The real problem isn't actually diversity or balance, the problem is that we spent 4 months playing against Cubelock and Midrange/Aggro Paladins and after a rotation that deletes like half the fcking cards from standard we're still doing the exact same thing. :P
I am bored with HS because all that is left is either swarm the board or cheat the curve to get 10/10 on 6 or get killed without ans kind of board control from you opponents side. Small minions just give you way to much value while beeig harder to remove entirely when compared to bigger minions which need to be insane in order to see any play at all. Id guess that 95% of minions that cost above 3 mana do not see any play because they do not have a big rnough impact at once and are extremely easy to remove or silence. We need to go to a state in which boardcontrol can swap between opponents a couple of times without one beeing able to just win because he can push dmg on turn 1 and 2. games should not deppend on single broken cards that autowin you matches. Thats what I would have liked to see for a long time now and it consistently got worse over time.
Okay I'll be honest, I don't want nerfs that kill the currently strong decks, I just want the cards that are way above the average powerlevel to be nerfed so that they are about as good as the average powerlevel. If you look at the strongest decks right now there are just some cards that allow those decks to do very unfair and uninteractive things and in my opinion that is not okay. And even some less powerful decks still have some cards that just shouldn't be allowed to exist in their current state (looking at you Mana Wyrm). I don't want nerfs to make decks unplayable, I want nerfs to allow other 'fair' cards to actually see some play.
If you're interested, here are some cards I think are problematic and how I would nerf them:
Just to make something clear, I think the problem with Warlock is the combination of cards that make it so powerful so not everything needs to be nerfed, but possible changes could be:
-Kabal Lackey: change cost to 6 or 7 mana (while maybe buffing his stats). I think at 6 it might still be too strong but we'd have to test it to actually know.
-Doomguard: change it's battlecry to: 'discard two cards and gain charge'
-Dark Pact: Increase its cost to 2 or make the effect restore health equal to the remaining amount of health of the destroyed minion.
-Bloodreaver Gul'dan: Decrease the maximum amount of summoned demons or make it summon only one of each friendly demon that died this game.
-Call to Arms: Change cost to either 5 or 6. Changing it to 5 would mainly nerf even decks and allow odd decks to play it while not being able to use it to its full effect. Changing it to 6 would actually make it the most balanced in general I think.
-Divine Favor: Increase the cost or change the effect to something like 'draw cards until you have four/five cards in your hand'.
-Naga Sea Witch: Increase its cost or even better, change it to the way it worked before because no one ever asked for the effect to be changed.
I know tempo mage isn't that strong right now but to be completely honest, this is actually a deck I want to be nerfed to death. So here we go!
-Explosive Runes: Let's face it, this card is just not fun to play against and can almost never be completely played around in the early turns of the game. I would change the damage dealt to 4 or make the splash damage go to a random enemy minion.
-Mana Wyrm: No idea why this card was never changed, but I'd make it a 1/2 instead of a 1/3 or change it's cost to 2 mana.
-Aluneth: Just why Blizzard? Make it draw 2 cards or increase its cost.
Okay I'll be honest, I don't want nerfs that kill the currently strong decks, I just want the cards that are way above the average powerlevel to be nerfed so that they are about as good as the average powerlevel. If you look at the strongest decks right now there are just some cards that allow those decks to do very unfair and uninteractive things and in my opinion that is not okay. And even some less powerful decks still have some cards that just shouldn't be allowed to exist in their current state (looking at you Mana Wyrm). I don't want nerfs to
[/card]make decks unplayable, I want nerfs to allow other 'fair' cards to actually see some play.
If you're interested, here are some cards I think are problematic and how I would nerf them:
Just to make something clear, I think the problem with Warlock is the combination of cards that make it so powerful so not everything needs to be nerfed, but possible changes could be:
-Kabal Lackey: change cost to 6 or 7 mana (while maybe buffing his stats). I think at 6 it might still be too strong but we'd have to test it to actually know.
-Doomguard: change it's battlecry to: 'discard two cards and gain charge'
-Dark Pact: Increase its cost to 2 or make the effect restore health equal to the remaining amount of health of the destroyed minion.
-Bloodreaver Gul'dan: Decrease the maximum amount of summoned demons or make it summon only one of each friendly demon that died this game.
-Call to Arms: Change cost to either 5 or 6. Changing it to 5 would mainly nerf even decks and allow odd decks to play it while not being able to use it to its full effect. Changing it to 6 would actually make it the most balanced in general I think.
-Divine Favor: Increase the cost or change the effect to something like 'draw cards until you have four/five cards in your hand'.
-Naga Sea Witch: Increase its cost or even better, change it to the way it worked before because no one ever asked for the effect to be changed.
I know tempo mage isn't that strong right now but to be completely honest, this is actually a deck I want to be nerfed to death. So here we go!
-Explosive Runes: Let's face it, this card is just not fun to play against and can almost never be completely played around in the early turns of the game. I would change the damage dealt to 4 or make the splash damage go to a random enemy minion.
-Mana Wyrm: No idea why this card was never changed, but I'd make it a 1/2 instead of a 1/3 or change it's cost to 2 mana.
-Aluneth: Just why Blizzard? Make it draw 2 cards or increase its cost.
I think these are some good ideas. It's unlikely that any Classic cards will be nerfed - my guess is that Doomguard and Mana Wyrm will be relegated to Hall of Fame next year, and a handful of old cards will be "promoted" to the Classic set to replace all the class cards which have been rotated from the set.
I think Bloodreaver Gul'dan will be fine, provided some of the cards which currently make the deck "tick" are nerfed - his effect is comparable to N'Zoth, the Corruptor, and the game is probably better off having big cards with swingy effects at 9+ mana.
You're bored with the meta, not because 2-3 decks are dominating it (we actually have many when you consider 2 different spiteful decks, Quest Rogue, Cubelock, Haddronox Druid, 3 variations for aggro pallies, etc), but because you can't play a game with the same meta for more than a month.
Players are tilted because some off the wall WW decks like Rush Hunter or something never became playable and you want all tier 1 & 2 decks nerfed so an unforeseen clown fiesta meta can completely overhaul the meta before a new expansion releases.
Yes I am slightly annoyed by all the requests for massive pendulum deck killing nerf threads.
Yes I am now adding to the overdone influx of nerf threads.
Yes I am mostly serious about my initial statements, and yes I do think the community in general is easily bored and impatient.
*Mic drop*
I actually have stopped expecting nerfs. I'm playing my weak off meta control deck regardless of the situation and I accept that I will slip to rank 15 at the end of this season since I can't get past rank 8 no matter what.
But expecting people to be excited about the reappearance of quest rogue is a bit rich.
I think these are some good ideas. It's unlikely that any Classic cards will be nerfed - my guess is that Doomguard and Mana Wyrm will be relegated to Hall of Fame next year, and a handful of old cards will be "promoted" to the Classic set to replace all the class cards which have been rotated from the set.
I think Bloodreaver Gul'dan will be fine, provided some of the cards which currently make the deck "tick" are nerfed - his effect is comparable to N'Zoth, the Corruptor, and the game is probably better off having big cards with swingy effects at 9+ mana.
Ah my bad, thanks for pointing that out, For some reason I can't edit my post anymore though so we'll have to live with my mistake :p
Also, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree that Bloodreaver Gul'dan should be impactful as a 10 cost card but I think the amount of value the effect itself gives (especially when summoning doomguards) combined with granting you one of the strongest hero powers in the game is a bit too powerful. As for the other cards, we'll just have to wait and see what Blizzard intends to do and hope they know what's best for the game.
You're bored with the meta, not because 2-3 decks are dominating it (we actually have many when you consider 2 different spiteful decks, Quest Rogue, Cubelock, Haddronox Druid, 3 variations for aggro pallies, etc), but because you can't play a game with the same meta for more than a month.
Players are tilted because some off the wall WW decks like Rush Hunter or something never became playable and you want all tier 1 & 2 decks nerfed so an unforeseen clown fiesta meta can completely overhaul the meta before a new expansion releases.
Yes I am slightly annoyed by all the requests for massive pendulum deck killing nerf threads.
Yes I am now adding to the overdone influx of nerf threads.
Yes I am mostly serious about my initial statements, and yes I do think the community in general is easily bored and impatient.
*Mic drop*
Here me out, everyone wants to enjoy the game and let others enjoy the game. It sucks to lose, especially when we all want to be creative and try wacky combos. I don't think it's a clown fiesta, I think people would just like more room to experiment with wacky (albeit, inconsistent) deck winning conditions.
Rereading your post, I may have just repeated what you said, but I think people's frustrations with a lack of variety is valid.
I've had a lot of fun with dumb Emeriss and Clockwork Automaton hunter decks, because they're just so over the top win instantly things it can't help but be hillarious. But I accept that it'll get aggroed down and outvalued when the slightest kink goes wrong.
ehhrrr only one thing wrong with your post...pendulums literally died when links were introduced into the game.
Was slightly interested in your opinion of what I really want until you just told me what you really want. Then you lost me at the asterisk microphone drop. Sadly, you are no Chris Rock.
I enjoy.
Agreed. People complain too much. How about instead of "I lost to this OP deck, NERF IT!" we see some "How about buff this Witchwood card to help this new deck compete with other good decks."
The man, the myth, the Legend.
(wait, I've only gotten rank 2, not legend)
Hadronox Druid is a one-trick pony. Other than overwhelming Cubelocks, it's a meme deck; it utterly fails to Equality or Vanish; Hex and Polymorph also kinda wreck it. If it ever became a real deck Cubelocks would just run Tinkmaster Overspark to counter it. It's low Tier 3 at best.
Kingsbane Rogue is basically Year of the Mammoth's Hadronox: not a real deck.
Control Lock is basically just Cubelock that is worse against combo to be better against aggro and the mirror. Data collectors like HSReplay and Vicious Syndicate can even have trouble differentiating between archetypes because so many cards are shared.
So you basically listed one actual archetype there: Quest Rogue. And yes, I am pleased that Quest Rogue is viable again. But I'm not blind to how Quest Rogue and Cubelock reinforce each other; Cubelock is one of the few control decks capable of pressuring Quest Rogue enough to have only a slightly unfavorable matchup, while Quest Rogue suppresses slower control decks and draws in aggro for Cubelock to prey upon.
what i hate is people complain about losing. it's a game where there is a winner AND a loser. get over it! just make the game all 1/1's with no text so everything is fair and we all tie everytime
Beyond the upcoming balance changes, I'd also like to see a few quality of life changes.
One minor thing I realized is that it displays your hero after each game either with brilliant victory banners or torn and tattered defeat rags. After seeing a crushing defeat, that just rubs it in for me. I'd like to see the winner every time to stay positive in that one small way.
I would also like only two wins required to get 10 gold (or 5 gold per each win). I rarely have enough time in a day to win 30 games, much less PLAY 30 games in order to reach the 100 gold cap and make the most of that day's play time. Keeping the 100 gold cap is fine, I just wish it was a little easier to reach. I've heard/seen others suggest letting the dungeon run and monster hunt game modes offer gold but at a lower rate than PvP modes and I would be open for that as well.
Lastly, can they fix the buggy loading screens? it takes up to 30 seconds for my phone to become unfrozen after tapping the play button on the main screen and my laptop doesn't do much better.
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Anyways, I'm glad they're looking to change some of the most, popular we'll say, cards on any forum site. I also find it a bit disturbing to see some classes get extremely efficient and/or powerful cards while other classes are struggling to find a win condition.
A recent post on Hearthstone.com or whatever (there was a thread on here with a link to it earlier) mentioned all the cards they were looking at including Spiteful Summoner and Kobold Librarian. I would like to see these cards changed, but not made to be unplayable as I think they can be powerful without being too powerful at their mana cost.
Spiteful Summoner should either be made a 1/1 so it would be a stronger Big-Time Racketeer OR make the summoned minion a 5/5 so you get a 5/5 and a 4/4 for 6 mana.
Kobold Librarian simply needs to be a 1/1. It already trades evenly with Silver Hand Recruits and the like, but other controlling decks don't have access to the strongest 1 and 2 mana minions, which are easily dealt with the 2/1 already on board. With or without the help of a Mortal Coil.
Quest Rogue is really draw dependent, but if I would see a change, I could imagine Preparation, Shadowstep, or Sonya Shadowdancer would see a change, most likely in the cost reduction area. Just one mana difference on any of those cards, or if Sonya returned an original copy would slow the deck down a little more without breaking it entirely.
This space is intentionally blank.
The real problem isn't actually diversity or balance, the problem is that we spent 4 months playing against Cubelock and Midrange/Aggro Paladins and after a rotation that deletes like half the fcking cards from standard we're still doing the exact same thing. :P
I am bored with HS because all that is left is either swarm the board or cheat the curve to get 10/10 on 6 or get killed without ans kind of board control from you opponents side. Small minions just give you way to much value while beeig harder to remove entirely when compared to bigger minions which need to be insane in order to see any play at all. Id guess that 95% of minions that cost above 3 mana do not see any play because they do not have a big rnough impact at once and are extremely easy to remove or silence. We need to go to a state in which boardcontrol can swap between opponents a couple of times without one beeing able to just win because he can push dmg on turn 1 and 2. games should not deppend on single broken cards that autowin you matches. Thats what I would have liked to see for a long time now and it consistently got worse over time.
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#JeSuisFieryWarAxe!
Okay I'll be honest, I don't want nerfs that kill the currently strong decks, I just want the cards that are way above the average powerlevel to be nerfed so that they are about as good as the average powerlevel. If you look at the strongest decks right now there are just some cards that allow those decks to do very unfair and uninteractive things and in my opinion that is not okay. And even some less powerful decks still have some cards that just shouldn't be allowed to exist in their current state (looking at you Mana Wyrm). I don't want nerfs to make decks unplayable, I want nerfs to allow other 'fair' cards to actually see some play.
If you're interested, here are some cards I think are problematic and how I would nerf them:
Just to make something clear, I think the problem with Warlock is the combination of cards that make it so powerful so not everything needs to be nerfed, but possible changes could be:
-Kabal Lackey: change cost to 6 or 7 mana (while maybe buffing his stats). I think at 6 it might still be too strong but we'd have to test it to actually know.
-Skull of the Man'ari: Probably change the cost to 6.
-Doomguard: change it's battlecry to: 'discard two cards and gain charge'
-Dark Pact: Increase its cost to 2 or make the effect restore health equal to the remaining amount of health of the destroyed minion.
-Bloodreaver Gul'dan: Decrease the maximum amount of summoned demons or make it summon only one of each friendly demon that died this game.
-Call to Arms: Change cost to either 5 or 6. Changing it to 5 would mainly nerf even decks and allow odd decks to play it while not being able to use it to its full effect. Changing it to 6 would actually make it the most balanced in general I think.
-Divine Favor: Increase the cost or change the effect to something like 'draw cards until you have four/five cards in your hand'.
-Spiteful Summoner: Increase the cost and maybe change its stats.
-The Caverns Below: Make the minions 4/4's I guess?
-Naga Sea Witch: Increase its cost or even better, change it to the way it worked before because no one ever asked for the effect to be changed.
I know tempo mage isn't that strong right now but to be completely honest, this is actually a deck I want to be nerfed to death. So here we go!
-Explosive Runes: Let's face it, this card is just not fun to play against and can almost never be completely played around in the early turns of the game. I would change the damage dealt to 4 or make the splash damage go to a random enemy minion.
-Mana Wyrm: No idea why this card was never changed, but I'd make it a 1/2 instead of a 1/3 or change it's cost to 2 mana.
-Aluneth: Just why Blizzard? Make it draw 2 cards or increase its cost.
It's not just boredom: issue is that THE SAME DECKS actually reached near-immunity to counters (i mean in terms of archetype, not of winrate ofc).
THE SAME DECKS (much older than a month) became too powerful and too well-rounded at the same time.
On top of that, they can resolve some matchups with the single drop of a specific card, aka highroll made consistent.
All that is much more than boredom, which is a thing, granted, but just a part of the issue.
What i want is a more dynamic card balance system instead of "bulk nerfs" every few months.
A little tweak here and there every now and then and voilá, we'd have an everchanging meta where pretty much any deck could be viable.
Question everything.