Hearthpwn

The solution I often see and really like is put Doomguard's charge on its battlecry.

Quote from kwikill >>

The solution I often see and really like is put Doomguard's charge on its battlecry.

Quote from Ixoziel >>

 

Quote from kwikill >>

The solution I often see and really like is put Doomguard's charge on its battlecry.

 

 What's the point of nerfing the classic set, especially when that card hasn't really been a problem until now? Furthermore, Control Lock often doesn't even use doomguards yet it's still a t1 deck. The problem is NOT doomguard. It's the mechanics that not only allow you to cheat out doomguards, but voidlords as wel. 

Holy shit guys the answer is so simple doomguard is a fair card and always has been the real problem is cheating out doomguards but we can't nerf every cheat card directly so nerf dark pact. Make it read "Destroy a friendly demon restore 8 health." This way you can't destroy your cubes or your lackeys with dark pact slowing the speed of cubelock considerably. I seriously believe this 1 nerf will make cubelock less oppressive and considerably worse but still playable. 

Cheating doomguard isn't a problem the problem is the infinite amount of doomguards people can create if you nerf dark pact that won't happen

Quote from Sykomyke >>

 

Quote from Ixoziel >>

 

Quote from kwikill >>

The solution I often see and really like is put Doomguard's charge on its battlecry.

 

 What's the point of nerfing the classic set, especially when that card hasn't really been a problem until now? Furthermore, Control Lock often doesn't even use doomguards yet it's still a t1 deck. The problem is NOT doomguard. It's the mechanics that not only allow you to cheat out doomguards, but voidlords as wel. 

 Because many people don't really care if a lock player cheats out Voidlords.  The only stategy that gets screwed over by cloning voidlords is SMorc decks, and maybe a few fringe midrange decks that just don't have enough threats to punch threw.  Everything else has the tools/skill necessary to kill multiple voidlords.

The problem as mentioned multiple times now in this thread is that Charge is a BAD mechanic.  It's consistently been nerfed time and time again because the community constantly proves that it looks for the most OP charge cards at the time and uses it to circumvent counterplay.

Right now the two biggest offenders of this charge non-interactive gameplay are Quest Rogue and Cubelock.  Cubelock's deck allows it a huge flexibility in what it wants to try and dupe/cheat out.

Up against aggro?  Clone voidlords.  Up against control?  Clone doomguards.  They don't really have a bad matchup which is why they are so popular right now, except for maybe against the #2 deck...that's right....QUEST ROGUE!   Hope you like getting OTK'd from 30 health behind taunts!  Maybe you'll survive if your entire deck is taunts, but even then it's unlikely.  Seriously I've seen rogues do 35 damage from hand yesterday in a match.  (I had 2 taunts up).  

The problem IS doomguard.  Cheating out demons was BY DESIGN (See Lackey or Skull).  The problem is that some of those demons are overly powerful when combined with things like Zola, Cube, Dark Pact, Umbra, etc.  

The best way to counter this as mentioned was if the Charge mechanic was tied to the battlecry.  Cheating out a 5/7 isn't bad,  and it would probably still be used considering it's one of the better demons out there, but if they want Charge, they gotta discard.  It's that simple.  

I know you want to fight back and say "nuh uh, if that's the case then they wouldn't have made the cheat out cards!".  And again, wrong.  Doomguard is classic.  It was designed originally with the classic card pool in mind.  Back then there were no "duplicate" or cheating cards.  So it was perfectly balanced.  Now it's not.  Sorry but Blizzard isn't infallible, they make mistakes and make poor balance decisions sometimes.  

 

Quote from b0andlkramer >>

Thread #572

Theres no way a heal spell is the underlying problem with warlock.

The truth is it's a combination of multiple cards that are problematic, but the mana cheating tops the list.

Quote from craigrs84 >>

Theres no way a heal spell is the underlying problem with warlock.

The truth is it's a combination of multiple cards that are problematic, but the mana cheating tops the list.

I suppose that's one way to argue it but it feels like you're treating a symptom and not the root cause.  If you nerf the heal they will still cheat minions with the weapon and lackey so that the deck will still be very problematic even if it's played slightly less.  And warlock aoe will probably still manage to hold aggro mostly in check anyways.

Quote from craigrs84 >>

I suppose that's one way to argue it but it feels like you're treating a symptom and not the root cause.  If you nerf the heal they will still cheat minions with the weapon and lackey so that the deck will still be very problematic even if it's played slightly less.  And warlock aoe will probably still manage to hold aggro mostly in check anyways.

 

Quote from LXimenes >>

The real problem here is the new expansion don't bring really new archetypes
And the new ones use just a couple of the new cards 
Like Odd Paladin using basic set cards WTF :(

Quote from DaStevanThunda >>

And yet nerfing doomguard kills zoo and Disco. The goal isnt to nerf Warlock beyond play is it? Why not nerf the problem that is the cube.

 

I was thinking they should Nerf Dark Pact since without it, Cube does nothing, how ever I was wondering. If players just use Skulking Geist, and Blizzard Nerfs Dark Pact, Warlocks will just use Sanguine Revealer instead of Dark Pact. Sure they won't be getting the health but I still feel it's not the health that wins games(it helps), it is the ability to instantly kill the minion on the same turn you play it, and there are too many substitutes for that in Warlock.

Quote from batanete >>

 

Quote from craigrs84 >>

(...)

 If you nerf the deck's healing, you make it weaker against aggro. By making the best deck in the game weaker to aggro, aggro decks will become more common. This means anti aggro control decks like warrior become better.

People need to start looking more at the bigger picture. (...) In the long run, making cubelock weaker to aggro would actually make other control decks more viable.

Quote from HackFin >>

 

Quote from batanete >>

 

Quote from craigrs84 >>

(...)

 If you nerf the deck's healing, you make it weaker against aggro. By making the best deck in the game weaker to aggro, aggro decks will become more common. This means anti aggro control decks like warrior become better.

People need to start looking more at the bigger picture. (...) In the long run, making cubelock weaker to aggro would actually make other control decks more viable.

 Very much this!
The combos are exactly meant to be that way, but the way the deck works its early heals have to be limited. Nerf to heal 3 or make it 2 mana should do it.
That would make e.g. the tempo mage and baku hunter matchup unfavourable already and stabilise the meta.

Quote from Aspect >>

 

Quote from HackFin >>

  Very much this!
The combos are exactly meant to be that way, but the way the deck works its early heals have to be limited. Nerf to heal 3 or make it 2 mana should do it.
That would make e.g. the tempo mage and baku hunter matchup unfavourable already and stabilise the meta.

  It is already unfavorable against both of those decks. I mean if you draw most of the heal you might survive provided that you establish pressure as well but all in all, you typically die to burn or hunter's hero power.

Quote from HackFin >>

 

Quote from Aspect >>

 

Quote from HackFin >>

  Very much this!
The combos are exactly meant to be that way, but the way the deck works its early heals have to be limited. Nerf to heal 3 or make it 2 mana should do it.
That would make e.g. the tempo mage and baku hunter matchup unfavourable already and stabilise the meta.

  It is already unfavorable against both of those decks. I mean if you draw most of the heal you might survive provided that you establish pressure as well but all in all, you typically die to burn or hunter's hero power.

 Well, in my grind to legend yesterday it didn't feel that way:
https://imgur.com/GOrsl19

Okay, I only faced two hunters but the mages were tempo besides one control mage.

 

dark pact problem ? Ive been playing warlock since WW release. And no, not cubelock. I hate that deck, controlock. And i can tell you, without dark pact as a 1 mana heal for 8. You would be forced to play cubelock all day.

I would die to anything that deals dmg

The overwhelming prevalence of other mana-cheat decks proves that Dark Pact is not the problem.

Mana cheating is a problem, and Cubelock is just one expression of it.

It's just so much more extreme in Cubelock because the mana cheating is tied to deathrattles, and Dark Pact is an easy enabler. There's nothing inherently wrong with enabling deathrattles this way ... unless those deathrattles are insanely OP.