I've not seen that much taunt druids to think that the deck warrants a nerf, but doomguard has been a problem for a long time, especially in zoo. When in the context of Zoo the discard doesn't really matter since the 2 cards won't be of a very high power level and you can tap for your cards back, it has always been a strong finisher, replacing leeroy in many of those decks
In cubelock it's a problem too, as you yourself said.
So you wanna destroy class??? Doomguard is used in many decks and cube in one deck only...you dont nerf class...you nerf deck :)... Same with andui/raza... Razawas used in one deck and anduin DK could be used in many decks...so they nerfed that one OP deck...
Dammm, you nearly managed the keep it all civil and respectful. Just towards the end the bitter discussion came. Such a shame. Still a commendable effort.
So when they nerf a deck like Cubelock, they like to do it with either expensive cards (ie Legendary/Epic) or Basic cards. If they nerf your Cubelock in which you invested a lot of dust, and they refund your Dark Pact, most people would feel cheated. I'm then thinking the weapon Skull of the Man'ari could be a huge nerf to Cubelock, but not control warlock. Having to play from hand a Doomguard is guaranteed discard of gul'dan painful. Maybe it looses a charge per demon summoned. Or just make sure that the battlecries of the the demons trigger (would also mean it does not have the bad synergy it has with Rin).
They will not nerf Divine Favor AND Call to Arms, as that would just wreck Paladin. The existance of Even and Odd Paladin as Tier 1 decks, makes this nerf extremely difficult, because they don't play a single overlapping card. But two card nerfs will nerf Paladin to oblibion. So the smartest guess for me is Sunkeeper Tarim. That card is just amazing. It makes every board a threat. It also works as a defensive tool when you thought you were loosing. The match ups against Paladin when you are winning you just tell yourself "I can only lose to Tarim). And even if it is only in Even Paladin, you can also get him in Odd Paladin from Stonehill Defender. So that would be the best card to Nerf. Maybe it just turns enemy minions to 3/3 would be right nerf. It is a defensive tool. But no longer those boards look so scary.
I'm not sure Spiteful Summoner is such a great bet myself. If they bring some 10 drops next expansion with average stats, they will not nerf it. Else, they could think about it. The best nerf would be the same cost -2 of the spell. Which means 10 cost minions never show up. But that would be too confusing. Increasing the mana cost just seems the straight forward, nerf it to oblivion answer. Which would be a shame. Decks with no early spells and only minions are actually quite fun to play against. Those Tyrantus at turn 5 when you are control, not so much.
Naga, what about just making her interaction as it was before. It cost (5) the card. Full stop. Nothing reduces its mana. Nothing increases it. Just (5).
There are a lot of classic cards in this thread, and Blizzard is not going to nor should they nerf thinks likelike doomguard or divine favor. Those cards get HoF so it will be another year and the cards u are complaining about now will likely be irrelevant by then.
Call too arms needs axed. That card might as well say, Draw 3 cards and then play all cards drawn this way. It should be at least 6 Mana, and might even be playable at 8 Mana.
Possessed lacky is a little problematic, maybe increase the cost to 6 mana, but the real problem is voidlord.
Voidlord, battlecry: gain deatrattle summon 3 void walkers.
sunkeeper tarim is probabaly the single most busted card in the game. Make it a 3/4 or increase it to 8 mana.
Naga seawitch sould be changed to read: your cards always cost (5).
Nerf Doomguard???? Card is in game from begining and never was a problem till CUBE didnt came out so cube is problem.. with nerf on cube you will nerf taunt druid AND cubelock...so dark pact dont need nerf...drawback is huge (destroying your own minion) but yes its only good with cube so CUBE is problem like i said before...
Okay, Naga Sea Witch does not need a mana cost increase, or a stat change. There’s a very simple nerf thry can do: JUST REVERT THE BUFF. Simple as that. She wasn’t OP before, but last year they gave her a shadowbuff to allow cost reductions, so the cards that costed 5 could become zero.
I don’t think carnivorous cube is the problem. It can be easily countered by silence effects. Same with possessed lackey. I think the fact that dark pact is a one cost spell, restores almost a third of your starting health, and gets the powerful death rattles of these minions before your opponent has a chance to respond is the problem.
i like changing dark pact to 1 cost “destroy a demon. Restore 8 health to your hero” this would make it harder to get the 8 health and you can’t kill high value minions like cube with it
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Guldan DK: Resummon all demons you played this game instead of that died. That would stop the cheating out of minions you didn't even pay for in the first place. It does make it stronger against transform effects like poly but only mage and shaman have this anyway. The card would still be good this way but not broken. Might need to be nerfed harder.
Doomguard will get hit: Probably rush instead of charge.
Paladin: Call to arms: Summon 2 minions that cost (2) or less, down from 3.
Spiteful summoner: They will destroy this card, righfully so because it's bullshit. 8 mana, up from 6 mana and destroy the spell in the process.
Guldan DK: Resummon all demons you played this game instead of that died. That would stop the cheating out of minions you didn't even pay for in the first place. It does make it stronger against transform effects like poly but only mage and shaman have this anyway. The card would still be good this way but not broken. Might need to be nerfed harder.
Doomguard will get hit: Probably rush instead of charge.
Paladin: Call to arms: Summon 2 minions that cost (2) or less, down from 3.
Spiteful summoner: They will destroy this card, righfully so because it's bullshit. 8 mana, up from 6 mana and destroy the spell in the process.
Hahahahhahaha no. Why would you nerf DK?? The strongest DK need to stay on top. Period.
And doomguard probably wont be nerfed...they will HoF him rather then nerf him..
But i really dont understand your nerf on DK...whyy the fck he need to be nerfed xd
Guldan DK needs it at most, being a ridiculously powerfull card. You recast all the demons that you rly didnt paid the mana for and have an infinite deal 3 heal 3 hero power. What did they smoked that day? I mean, seriously, one day, you wil laugh at it like we do now looking at some old nerfed cards, being amazed, how would that even happened.
Spitefull to 7.
Call to arms needs a rework, but simply having it mana cost changed to 5 is not that great. Cant tell.
Dark pact would sacrifice a demon only.
Still, pain in the eye is Guldan DK and Spitefull. The most degenerate things that they created in a while.
Guldan DK needs it at most, being a ridiculously powerfull card. You recast all the demons that you rly didnt paid the mana for and have an infinite deal 3 heal 3 hero power. What did they smoked that day? I mean, seriously, one day, you wil laugh at it like we do now looking at some old nerfed cards, being amazed, how would that even happened.
Spitefull to 7.
Call to arms needs a rework, but simply having it mana cost changed to 5 is not that great. Cant tell.
Dark pact would sacrifice a demon only.
Still, pain in the eye is Guldan DK and Spitefull. The most degenerate things that they created in a while.
First of all. Isnt Bloodreaver Gul'dan only 10 mana hero??? Then he needs to be the strongest one...
Second. Isnt the Gul'dan the strongest character of all 9 in HS??? Then he needs to have strongest DK....
Sorry but he cant be nerfed
Edit: jaina have better lifesteal and actually more lifsteal over time with DK then warlock
The people in this thread man. You realize that there is a person among you who just recommended nerfing Naturalize right? Like wow. Some of you just really can't handle losing at all. I hope Blizzard ignores this thread and others like it.
The people in this thread man. You realize that there is a person among you who just recommended nerfing Naturalize right? Like wow. Some of you just really can't handle losing at all. I hope Blizzard ignores this thread and others like it.
Im only for nerf on cube itself :) i play warlock only and never played cubelock...but cube is to good even in taut druid...
Guldan DK: Resummon all demons you played this game instead of that died. That would stop the cheating out of minions you didn't even pay for in the first place. It does make it stronger against transform effects like poly but only mage and shaman have this anyway. The card would still be good this way but not broken. Might need to be nerfed harder.
Doomguard will get hit: Probably rush instead of charge.
Paladin: Call to arms: Summon 2 minions that cost (2) or less, down from 3.
Spiteful summoner: They will destroy this card, righfully so because it's bullshit. 8 mana, up from 6 mana and destroy the spell in the process.
Hahahahhahaha no. Why would you nerf DK?? The strongest DK need to stay on top. Period.
And doomguard probably wont be nerfed...they will HoF him rather then nerf him..
But i really dont understand your nerf on DK...whyy the fck he need to be nerfed xd
"The strongest DK need to stay on top. Period." I see your point.
We all know a set of nerfs is coming during mid-term, it's always been that way. So what about guessing them?
Ofc, we can discuss the guesses, but i will take care to report anything that is not kept quiet and constructive. We can argue without flaming.
Each answer is meant to be divided in 2 parts:
1) what cards do you think will be hit? Please be honest, don't tap into hate only
2) how do you think those cards will be hit?
-----
So for me:
#1 Possessed Lackey: mana cost increased to (6) (it is not just a mana cheat, but also a selective draw cheat. Imo, it would be OP even at (6))
#2 Spiteful Summoner: mana cost to (8). (value would still be there)
#3 Call to Arms: recruit 2 (2) minions. (The card is too dominant and staple, while increasing its mana cost to odd value would probably kill Even Paladin, which is not the point)
#4 Divine Favor: mana cost to (5). (Aggro decks should not be able to have an efficient draw system).
#5 Naga Sea Witch: mana cost increased to (8) (the deck would still be playable, but more vulnerable to burn, as any other combo deck).
-----
All these nerfs should still keep the affected decks as powerful, but more vulnerable to other strategies, namely Midrange variations, without the latter being warped around specific but boring mana cheating strategies.
What do you bet?
Please, keep it easy. I repeat: THIS IS NO SALTY THREAD.
It is meant for discussion about possible nerfs, and above all it is meant to be CONSTRUCTIVE.
After the nerfs kick in, we'll see who was the wisest of us at guessing. :)
Thanks.
I mostly agree with your nerfs but Divine Favor one is a little brutal. Maybe to 4 mana.
Guldan DK: Resummon all demons you played this game instead of that died. That would stop the cheating out of minions you didn't even pay for in the first place. It does make it stronger against transform effects like poly but only mage and shaman have this anyway. The card would still be good this way but not broken. Might need to be nerfed harder.
Doomguard will get hit: Probably rush instead of charge.
Paladin: Call to arms: Summon 2 minions that cost (2) or less, down from 3.
Spiteful summoner: They will destroy this card, righfully so because it's bullshit. 8 mana, up from 6 mana and destroy the spell in the process.
Hahahahhahaha no. Why would you nerf DK?? The strongest DK need to stay on top. Period.
And doomguard probably wont be nerfed...they will HoF him rather then nerf him..
But i really dont understand your nerf on DK...whyy the fck he need to be nerfed xd
reagding a possible Bloodreaver Gul'dan nerf: Check hs replay for cards with the highest "played win rate". Almost all cards with extremly high played win rate are either burst finisher cards like Bloodlust, Leeroy, Pyroblast etc or combo cards like Shudderwock. When a card is just a good standalone play that does not require a board or a great amount of setup and has the same played win rate as bloodlust, you know the card is potentially problematic.
I am open to arguments as to why Bloodreaver Gul'dan is not the real problematic card and why maybe adressing another card could help balance this whole thing out, but just saying "he needs to stay on top" is not an argument that will convince anyone... sorry man.
I get that you love the class and the card, but i am pretty sure blizzard gives more about data than about your personal feelings. (They also didn't care about mine when they nerfed Nat Pagle). This thread was supposed to be about plausible cards to recieve nerfs, what these nerfs could be and why, not about everyone naming their favorite stuff and expressing their hope, that this stuff stays the way it is because they like it so much ^^
Dude they follow wow lore.. They didnt nerf N'zoth....with reason xd he is fcking GOD....he need to be strong and he had huge winratio when played and still no nerf :) im not saying this because i love Gul'dan but because of wow lore. He deserve strong DK..before K&C warlock wast good for 2-3 expansions...
It would be good to nerf spiteful, doomguard, and dark pact nerf. Divine favor nerf and call to arms would be good to nerf. Honestly just this and the game is in a great spot. Actually.. they might need to nerf Druid too.. nerf cube maybe to summon 1 copy that would be good. better yet, increase its cost to 7 and witching hour to 4 so more more op combo with hadronox.
Dammm, you nearly managed the keep it all civil and respectful. Just towards the end the bitter discussion came. Such a shame. Still a commendable effort.
So when they nerf a deck like Cubelock, they like to do it with either expensive cards (ie Legendary/Epic) or Basic cards. If they nerf your Cubelock in which you invested a lot of dust, and they refund your Dark Pact, most people would feel cheated. I'm then thinking the weapon Skull of the Man'ari could be a huge nerf to Cubelock, but not control warlock. Having to play from hand a Doomguard is
guaranteed discard of gul'danpainful. Maybe it looses a charge per demon summoned. Or just make sure that the battlecries of the the demons trigger (would also mean it does not have the bad synergy it has with Rin).They will not nerf Divine Favor AND Call to Arms, as that would just wreck Paladin. The existance of Even and Odd Paladin as Tier 1 decks, makes this nerf extremely difficult, because they don't play a single overlapping card. But two card nerfs will nerf Paladin to oblibion. So the smartest guess for me is Sunkeeper Tarim. That card is just amazing. It makes every board a threat. It also works as a defensive tool when you thought you were loosing. The match ups against Paladin when you are winning you just tell yourself "I can only lose to Tarim). And even if it is only in Even Paladin, you can also get him in Odd Paladin from Stonehill Defender. So that would be the best card to Nerf. Maybe it just turns enemy minions to 3/3 would be right nerf. It is a defensive tool. But no longer those boards look so scary.
I'm not sure Spiteful Summoner is such a great bet myself. If they bring some 10 drops next expansion with average stats, they will not nerf it. Else, they could think about it. The best nerf would be the same cost -2 of the spell. Which means 10 cost minions never show up. But that would be too confusing. Increasing the mana cost just seems the straight forward, nerf it to oblivion answer. Which would be a shame. Decks with no early spells and only minions are actually quite fun to play against. Those Tyrantus at turn 5 when you are control, not so much.
Naga, what about just making her interaction as it was before. It cost (5) the card. Full stop. Nothing reduces its mana. Nothing increases it. Just (5).
There are a lot of classic cards in this thread, and Blizzard is not going to nor should they nerf thinks likelike doomguard or divine favor. Those cards get HoF so it will be another year and the cards u are complaining about now will likely be irrelevant by then.
Call too arms needs axed. That card might as well say, Draw 3 cards and then play all cards drawn this way. It should be at least 6 Mana, and might even be playable at 8 Mana.
Possessed lacky is a little problematic, maybe increase the cost to 6 mana, but the real problem is voidlord.
Voidlord, battlecry: gain deatrattle summon 3 void walkers.
sunkeeper tarim is probabaly the single most busted card in the game. Make it a 3/4 or increase it to 8 mana.
Naga seawitch sould be changed to read: your cards always cost (5).
Battlecry: Destroy a freindly minion
Deathrattle: Put two copies of it into your hand.
--Alfi--
Okay, Naga Sea Witch does not need a mana cost increase, or a stat change. There’s a very simple nerf thry can do: JUST REVERT THE BUFF. Simple as that. She wasn’t OP before, but last year they gave her a shadowbuff to allow cost reductions, so the cards that costed 5 could become zero.
I don’t think carnivorous cube is the problem. It can be easily countered by silence effects. Same with possessed lackey. I think the fact that dark pact is a one cost spell, restores almost a third of your starting health, and gets the powerful death rattles of these minions before your opponent has a chance to respond is the problem.
i like changing dark pact to 1 cost “destroy a demon. Restore 8 health to your hero” this would make it harder to get the 8 health and you can’t kill high value minions like cube with it
Check out my Earth, Wind, and Fire - Elemental Shaman deck!
Guldan DK: Resummon all demons you played this game instead of that died. That would stop the cheating out of minions you didn't even pay for in the first place. It does make it stronger against transform effects like poly but only mage and shaman have this anyway. The card would still be good this way but not broken. Might need to be nerfed harder.
Doomguard will get hit: Probably rush instead of charge.
Paladin: Call to arms: Summon 2 minions that cost (2) or less, down from 3.
Spiteful summoner: They will destroy this card, righfully so because it's bullshit. 8 mana, up from 6 mana and destroy the spell in the process.
Guldan DK needs it at most, being a ridiculously powerfull card. You recast all the demons that you rly didnt paid the mana for and have an infinite deal 3 heal 3 hero power. What did they smoked that day? I mean, seriously, one day, you wil laugh at it like we do now looking at some old nerfed cards, being amazed, how would that even happened.
Spitefull to 7.
Call to arms needs a rework, but simply having it mana cost changed to 5 is not that great. Cant tell.
Dark pact would sacrifice a demon only.
Still, pain in the eye is Guldan DK and Spitefull. The most degenerate things that they created in a while.
The people in this thread man. You realize that there is a person among you who just recommended nerfing Naturalize right? Like wow. Some of you just really can't handle losing at all. I hope Blizzard ignores this thread and others like it.
I don't think anything needs a nerf, I just think we need the next expansion, so there will be new deck types.
I think that the next expansion should not support the currently strong decks much, but come up with new kinds of decks.
The only nerf I might agree with is reducing Guldan's deathknight hero power to 2 damage with life steal instead of 3.
However, I think some people are reacting too much about spiteful summoner and doom guard.
Maybe spiteful summon should be seven, but why make it unplayable at 8 mana, destroy the spell?
The nerfs are there to even-out the power of the class and decks, not destroy them.
I still played Patches after it was nerfed, because it was still good in my Prince Tempo Rogue.
However, Force of Nature and Arcane Golem were changed (because they needed it), but now they are unplayable in any (well, maybe not every)
deck.
Call to Arms: Raise cost to 5. Sorry Even Pally. Not as great in Odd Pally as you get only 1 drops.
Lackey: Raise cost to 6.
And I wouldn't mind
Spell Breaker: Change stats to 2/4.
Galavant Animation
It would be good to nerf spiteful, doomguard, and dark pact nerf. Divine favor nerf and call to arms would be good to nerf. Honestly just this and the game is in a great spot. Actually.. they might need to nerf Druid too.. nerf cube maybe to summon 1 copy that would be good. better yet, increase its cost to 7 and witching hour to 4 so more more op combo with hadronox.