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Hello everyone, thanks for comming to my little thread. I will explain a situation playing today that I'm not really understanding. The turn is the 13: rep of the match
Today I was playing against a cube and I had Lord Godfrey on my hand and also Voodoo Doll. Enemy board was:
3x Doomguard
3x Voidwalker
1x Voidlord
And my plan was to play Voodoo Doll targeting the Voidlord, so there would be a stairway to the boardclear. But, I found myself with a full board with his minions to 1hp. I explain what I wanted to do and what it really became:
The plan: Voodoo Doll targets Voidlord, they die the first by the Lord Godfrey battlecry. Then, the table has 3 bodies 1/1, 3x5/5 and one 1/3 (the new created by the Voidlord). Then, the procs keep hitting, the 3 1/1 take 2 dmg and die, then the 1/3 dies (because it was damaged to 1hp and the proc get's him), then the 3x5/5 die too.
The income: You can see it on the rep, the second Lord Godfrey's proc activated before Voodoo Doll's or Voidlord's deathrattle, so there was not a stair to board clear.
Am I missing something? It might be my failure, but I can't see it now... I thought their deathrattles would have happen before LG's second proc.
Well i believe because battlecries resolve first, the voidlord did not die immediately as you may have planned.
On the first proc voodoo doll died so it deals damage again
On the second all the voidwalkers are destroyed. This technically happens before the voidlord is killed because voodoo doll's effect is a deathrattle, so it allowed for all 3 of the voidwalkers to spawn from it, and they didn't spawn in time to take more than 2 damage.
On the third the new voidwalkers spawn and they along with the doomguards take damage. Because they all had 3 health, it left them all at 1 and no further damage was dealt.
I believe what you expected at the time was for the voidlord to die immediately spawning only one voidwalker in time for it to take 4 damage and keep the chain going, but that did not happen. Apparently the deathrattle triggered after 2 procs of the battlecry, before the third.
Exactly, I thought that Voodoo Doll and Voidlord would be dead before the second Lord Godfrey's proc happened, because I thought that it was neccesary to resolve all the deathrattles before keep dealing dmg. I thought Lord Godfrey was more respectful and would let everyone do what they have to do before continuing spreading damage over there. Voodoo Doll and Voidlord are busy people, man!
No jokes, that defeat hurt my heart. I thought that would happen the way I told.
I am sure you are not alone! I could see myself thinking the same. It does seem very confusing.
It makes sense that it would continue the battlecry before resolving the deathrattles because it's not a spell like Defile, but it doesn't make sense that the battlecry triggered twice, took a break for deathrattles to resolve, then continued with the next 2 damage.
The way i thought it should work is to completely resolve the battlecry, meaning damaging the voidlord down to 3 health, then triggering voodoo doll which triggers voidlord which should leave 3 voidwalkers with 1/3 not 1/1. Something seems a bit off here.
It should have been a full board clear from what I'm seeing.
this is not a bug, if you had used a 2 damage defile than it would have worked out like this, but because lord godfrey has a battlecry then it works differently, it happens before deathrattles.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
There is a lot of people here! Thank you very much to explain your thoughts and trying to get to something!! It makes me very happy even tho I lost that game
I think the issue is Godfrey uses a battlecry. Even if the battlecry triggers multiple times it all falls under one battlecry rather than multiple separate ones (like you would get with Brann for instance). Because of this deathrattles trigger after it's completely finished and not after each trigger.
Kind of debatable how it should work imo. On the one hand battlecries have always triggered first and this isn't the same as defile which is repeated spell casts. On the other hand it doesn't make any logical sense that minions can die triggering another Godfrey clear without their deathrattles going off.
I look forward to getting clarification (and possibly a fix) from Blizzard in like 4 months.
Have you checked if the problem is Lord Godfrey or the Voodoo Doll?
As i see it there are 2 possible causes to this bug:
1. Like you said, Lord Godfrey's next battlecry tick is queued before deathrattle activations, and we will get the sequence:
Play Lord Godfrey -> execute 1st tick -> queue 2nd tick -> check for deaths -> queue Voodoo Doll -> execute 2nd tick -> execute Voodoo Doll -> queue Voidlord -> execute Voidlord -> check for deaths -> queue 3rd tick -> execute 3rd tick.
2. Lord Godfrey works like Defile but the Voidlord is queued after the 2nd tick, and we will get the sequence:
Play Lord Godfrey -> execute 1st tick -> check for deaths -> queue Voodoo Doll -> queue 2nd tick -> execute Voodoo Doll -> queue Voidlord -> execute 2nd tick -> execute Voidlord -> check for deaths -> queue 3rd tick -> execute 3rd tick.
In both cases we will get the same result, but in the first one Lord Godfrey is bugged, and in the second one it's Voodoo Doll is bugged (or at least has bad interaction with deathrattles).
From my observations this is NOT due to the difference between spell and battlecry. This is testable.
My hypothesis: Voodoo Doll for some reason takes an extra "tick" to kill something. It may be that the delay is the Void Walker spawn, but I believe it is the Voodoo Doll Kill.
The test: Have a player play a Voidlord then end turn. Player 2 casts Voodoo Doll targeting the Voidlord, then plays Defile.
The expected result: Tick 1, Voodoo Doll dies, Voidlord dies, Void Walkers Spawn. Tick 2,Void Walkers go to 1/2. Defile Ends. This could be tested further by setting up a 2 health minion also to test if the Void walkers die or not.
The same test can be repeated but using Godfrey instead if Defile.
Now to be fair I haven't done the actual test, but I have observed it watching streams. If anyone would like to help me test feel free to PM me and we can try to set it up.
Sorry, but as far as i see it, it works correctly.
What people here do wrong is COMPARE Defile WITH Lord Godfrey!
Lord Godfreys effect is a battlecry, so it will happen BEFORE any other effects happen. So yes, he will cast all of his AoE BEFORE the deathrattle of Voodoo Doll happen. That's how it's supposed to be, since battlecrys have a priority over other effects, because of this, Secret-destroying Battlecrys exist. Only after his battlecry completed, effects like Deathrattle will resolve. This was always the case with Battlecry.
Defile is different. It's a spell that replicates itself. It's like playing an echo-card that echo itself automatically without using up any mana. Here it works as it's intended, after each spell, trigger effects like deathrattle, and then cast it again.
Lord Godfrey is NO DEFILE. And Defile is no Lord Godfrey. Same effect, but the execution is fundamentally different.
Then it's a bug with Voodoo-Doll, the deathrattle should only resolve after Lord Godfrey cast everything. Voodoo-Doll is the buggy-card in this expansion as Weasel was it in MSG.
I think my issue is like the second case you describe, it can be seen in the replay. The first Lord Godfrey tick killed Voodoo Doll, but her deathrattle happened just after the second tick.
Maybe the issue is about deathrattles that trigger deathrattles. What if you have a Voodoo Doll that points to another Voodoo Doll (with +2 hp, to let her survive the first tick), which points to something with deathrattle, and you play Lord Godfrey? I say this because the main "bug" (or feature) that I see in my play was that there was only a slot for deathrattle between first and second LG's ticks, but it was executed 1 tick later (what ruined my intentions)
Maybe it's something about the deathrattle itself, and the interaction with Lord Godfrey's battlecry.
First of all, I think LG's battlecry works very likely Defile does. It's a battlecry, but the battlecry itself is "deal 2 dmg to all other minions". There is an add-on to that, like is in Defile. If anyone dies, repeat this battlecry. What means, execute it again like it was a new battlecry "deal 2 dmg to all other minions".
That said, I get to the conclusion that the problem comes with deathrattle effects and when they are popped. It seems like the order was this:
The Voodoo Doll died -> (it would be easy to say that this turn was for her deathrattle but it wasn't!) Lord Godfrey sees that a minion died and repeats his battlecry asap (2nd time) that kills those 1/3-> Voodoo Doll's deathrattle kills Voidlord, that got hit by one wave he wasn't supposed to be hit (he was supposed to be dead 1 tick before) -> Lord Godfrey sees that those 1/3 died and repeats his battlecry, getting all board to be 1 hp.
TL;DR: I think the problem is about priorities.
I tested it with Defile against the innkeeper, looks like the Voodoo Doll is the problem:
3/6 voidlord + 1/1 doll + 3/10 Jaraxsus
Result:
So what really happens is:
1st tick -> Doll dies -> 2nd tick -> Doll's deathrattle triggers and kill the voidlord.
So it's kinda the message I posted above yours, isn't it? I can see that your Voidlord went 3/4 before being killed by Voodoo Doll deathrattle, because the last wave was the one that didn't kill a minion, so the 1/3 are healthy.
And I think we spotted the problem, and Defile is a spell (no fighting for priorities with battlecry) and still not working properly...