The Shudderwock otk deck won't have an insane wr, but just like quest rogue, its far too polarizing and requires a change
Shudderwock himself is an interesting card and would be fair if you had to play him for 9 mana as intended, but grumble ruins that.
Change grumble to something like: "Battlecry: return all friendly minions to your hand, elementals returned this way cost (1)"
This way, the deck can no longer otk through non interactive burn. Also, Grumble would still have applications in elemental decks AND the shudderwock deck.
Thing is Grumble is absurdly strong in combo with Shudderwock, but otherwise, it's not used often at all. The card itself is good, but aside from this new absurdly strong shudderwock shaman, it doesn't work in any tier 1 shaman deck. Seems a little tough to nerf this card, risking to make it useless, while it's the combination itself that is broken.
Dude have you seen ANY Grumble see play in the last 4 months? How can you say he is the problem?
Nobody is saying that Grumble is this absurdly broken card that needs to be nerfed. What they're saying is that it enables a very strong/annoying combo. Nobody ever played Master of Disguise yet it was preemptively nerfed because it could enable frustrating situations. Same thing with Dreadsteed when Defile came out due to that immune minion on Knife Juggler with Dreadsteed down + Defile for OTK.
Personally, I'd rather see a change to Saronite Chain Gang. Change it to "battlecry: Summon another Saronite Chain Gang" (Like the Hunter 1/1 cat) That's how 99% of players already thought it worked anyway. Then you don't need to touch anyone's legendaries.
Uh, because the problem is Grumble in application with Shudderwock. The point of this thread is to acknowledge the Shudderwock OTK is broken, but consider that it's not the Shudderwock part. And I agree.
It would be a really neat card if the player's hand wasn't being spammed with (1) copies of a minion with the same impact as a card they just played for (9). The Saronite-copy effect would be bearable. I could live with a 9 mana legendary that makes 3 6/6's and runs through a round (or two with Murmuring Elemental) of battlecries. But a card that does that same effect, plus returns those generated copies to your hand for 1 mana? No way.
Shudderwock isn't broken. What's broken is being able to play 10 copies of a 9-cost minion in one turn. So changing Grumble really is the best way to address this brokenness
Grumble is one of the many, many, MANY problems in that shitfest of a deck. They need to either change him in some way (OP's suggestion barely affects the decks he's intended for and hammers home the Elemental synergy), change Chain Gang to only summon another Chain Gang and not a clone of the minion (or make it so it summons another Chain Gang but give it whatever buffs the original card had to basically not change the card on its own at all but still break the combo) or completely change Shudderwock, which would ruin the Yogg-equivalent of the set.
The Shudderwock deck might not have 90% winrate across the board but neither had Quest Rogue. The deck is a complete fucking pain to play against in every turn and unless you're either ME GO FACE-levels of brainless aggro with a perfect turn (because god be with you to kill them through turn 3 Tar Creeper, turn 4 Chain Gang, turn 5/6 double Lifedrinker) or play dumb shit like Cubelock that just OTKs itself. The deck doesn't have to be absolutely devastatingly dominant on ladder to be hit with the hammer. I don't think I've seen a single person so far that got out of a Shudderwock game thinking "Man, this sure was a close, interactive and fun gaming experience!", no matter if they won or lost.
Well...Grumble, Worldshaker both is and isn't the problem. On the one hand the Shudderwock OTK literally would not be possible without it. However, on the other hand, the thing about Shudderwock is it's the type of legendary that turns otherwise niche or awkward battlecries into powerful combos. So it's not really fair to say Shudderwock is free from blame.
But this all assumes that the deck is a problem in the first place, and you need more than one day of an expansion to figure that out for sure.
There is no problem. The deck sucks. It's not even hard to win against.
I do think Grumble might be a problem though. His effect is so asking for ridiculous combos. I fooled around with him a bit last expansion, but Shaman didn't have anything powerful to go with him. He is obviously part of a bunch of OTK combos pretty much waiting to happen. This one is more annoying than good, but it might be worth catching him before something really bad happens.
The Shudderwock otk deck won't have an insane wr, but just like quest rogue, its far too polarizing and requires a change
Shudderwock himself is an interesting card and would be fair if you had to play him for 9 mana as intended, but grumble ruins that.
Change grumble to something like: "Battlecry: return all friendly minions to your hand, elementals returned this way cost (1)"
This way, the deck can no longer otk through non interactive burn. Also, Grumble would still have applications in elemental decks AND the shudderwock deck.
Ez fix
I wouldnt mind this change.
I think a better solution would be to change Grumble's battlecry to "end of turn"effect.
Also an excellent suggestion
Grumble is NOT the problem. Grumble has been in play for quite a while and no one complained before.
Dude have you seen ANY Grumble see play in the last 4 months? How can you say he is the problem?
Thing is Grumble is absurdly strong in combo with Shudderwock, but otherwise, it's not used often at all. The card itself is good, but aside from this new absurdly strong shudderwock shaman, it doesn't work in any tier 1 shaman deck. Seems a little tough to nerf this card, risking to make it useless, while it's the combination itself that is broken.
"My life... for Aiùr."
Personally, I'd rather see a change to Saronite Chain Gang. Change it to "battlecry: Summon another Saronite Chain Gang" (Like the Hunter 1/1 cat) That's how 99% of players already thought it worked anyway. Then you don't need to touch anyone's legendaries.
Anybody who is saying that Grumble is not the problem because he hasn't seen play in the last few months doesn't remember the Raza nerf
Uh, because the problem is Grumble in application with Shudderwock. The point of this thread is to acknowledge the Shudderwock OTK is broken, but consider that it's not the Shudderwock part. And I agree.
It would be a really neat card if the player's hand wasn't being spammed with (1) copies of a minion with the same impact as a card they just played for (9). The Saronite-copy effect would be bearable. I could live with a 9 mana legendary that makes 3 6/6's and runs through a round (or two with Murmuring Elemental) of battlecries. But a card that does that same effect, plus returns those generated copies to your hand for 1 mana? No way.
Shudderwock isn't broken. What's broken is being able to play 10 copies of a 9-cost minion in one turn. So changing Grumble really is the best way to address this brokenness
Grumble is one of the many, many, MANY problems in that shitfest of a deck. They need to either change him in some way (OP's suggestion barely affects the decks he's intended for and hammers home the Elemental synergy), change Chain Gang to only summon another Chain Gang and not a clone of the minion (or make it so it summons another Chain Gang but give it whatever buffs the original card had to basically not change the card on its own at all but still break the combo) or completely change Shudderwock, which would ruin the Yogg-equivalent of the set.
The Shudderwock deck might not have 90% winrate across the board but neither had Quest Rogue. The deck is a complete fucking pain to play against in every turn and unless you're either ME GO FACE-levels of brainless aggro with a perfect turn (because god be with you to kill them through turn 3 Tar Creeper, turn 4 Chain Gang, turn 5/6 double Lifedrinker) or play dumb shit like Cubelock that just OTKs itself. The deck doesn't have to be absolutely devastatingly dominant on ladder to be hit with the hammer. I don't think I've seen a single person so far that got out of a Shudderwock game thinking "Man, this sure was a close, interactive and fun gaming experience!", no matter if they won or lost.
Please watch this and tell me that you're fine if Hearthstone is left in this state: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Zjj-3iN6E
Anyone Who is suggesting anything other than changing the text of Saronite Chain Gang, just stop
Well...Grumble, Worldshaker both is and isn't the problem. On the one hand the Shudderwock OTK literally would not be possible without it. However, on the other hand, the thing about Shudderwock is it's the type of legendary that turns otherwise niche or awkward battlecries into powerful combos. So it's not really fair to say Shudderwock is free from blame.
But this all assumes that the deck is a problem in the first place, and you need more than one day of an expansion to figure that out for sure.
No dont change Grumble. The ORIGINAL Exodia Shaman is my favorite deck of all time. The one that actually requires a lot of skill to play.
Change SHudderwock as it costs always 9 mana, there, done
Me? Gongaga.
Many cards werent broken before but once new cards are introduced, old cards ebcome opressive.
Grumble should put ALL MINIONS to your hand. The current effect makes Shudderwock still be on board when Grumble effect appears.
Just make him back to the owners hand and end the battlecry effects.
There is no problem. The deck sucks. It's not even hard to win against.
I do think Grumble might be a problem though. His effect is so asking for ridiculous combos. I fooled around with him a bit last expansion, but Shaman didn't have anything powerful to go with him. He is obviously part of a bunch of OTK combos pretty much waiting to happen. This one is more annoying than good, but it might be worth catching him before something really bad happens.
What are you even talking about here? This incosistent garbage deck is sub 50% winrate lol