I think this card that i just made would be a cool tech card to help with these problems :P
"Played" means used from your hand by paying it's mana cost, meaning that anything that's cheated into play or otherwise summoned would get destroyed instantly.
So with Dirty Rat this is completely broken. 5 mana for 4/10 in stats plus taunt and destroy a minion in your opponent's hand.
I think this card that i just made would be a cool tech card to help with these problems :P
"Played" means used from your hand by paying it's mana cost, meaning that anything that's cheated into play or otherwise summoned would get destroyed instantly.
So with Dirty Rat this is completely broken. 5 mana for 4/10 in stats plus taunt and destroy a minion in your opponent's hand.
Is a two card combo to force one discard from your opponent broken? I don't think it is. But the stats on the card might be off by a little, dunno.
They had a card that essentially allowed you to do this but you also gained the card: Entomb. It was one of the most BS, frustrating cards to deal with but people still didn't run it most of the time because 6 mana was too expensive at the time. I'm confident that if it was still in standard, it would be majorly crippling Cubelock right now. Too bad they gave it to the douchiest class though... I agree though that they need more cards like that (Polymorph: Boar is a good example)
I think this card that i just made would be a cool tech card to help with these problems :P
"Played" means used from your hand by paying it's mana cost, meaning that anything that's cheated into play or otherwise summoned would get destroyed instantly.
So with Dirty Rat this is completely broken. 5 mana for 4/10 in stats plus taunt and destroy a minion in your opponent's hand.
Is a two card combo to force one discard from your opponent broken? I don't think it is. But the stats on the card might be off by a little, dunno.
You're right keep making broken cards and then telling me I'm wrong.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
I think this card that i just made would be a cool tech card to help with these problems :P
"Played" means used from your hand by paying it's mana cost, meaning that anything that's cheated into play or otherwise summoned would get destroyed instantly.
So with Dirty Rat this is completely broken. 5 mana for 4/10 in stats plus taunt and destroy a minion in your opponent's hand.
Is a two card combo to force one discard from your opponent broken? I don't think it is. But the stats on the card might be off by a little, dunno.
You're right keep making broken cards and then telling me I'm wrong.
Wow, turn up the saltitude. So much for a friendly discussion, huh?
You caught me at a bad time. But yes, that combo is broken. Aside from that demon (discards whenever it takes damage) and the "give a minion to your opponent" + defile, which is a 3 card combo, nothing else exists like this in the entire game. This is even potentially better than that, since the discard mechanic is random cards, and this two card combo is specifically for minions.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
You caught me at a bad time. But yes, that combo is broken. Aside from that demon (discards whenever it takes damage) and the "give a minion to your opponent" + defile, which is a 3 card combo, nothing else exists like this in the entire game. This is even potentially better than that, since the discard mechanic is random cards, and this two card combo is specifically for minions.
Well you can also dirty rat into vilespine slayer or any number of other destroy effects, thats just part of the game. I agree that the stats on the card i made might be off, but I still think the effect could be fine in the game...
problem would be these cards have to cost a lot of mana or they would dominate too hard. but if the card is expensive you would likely have to let enemy threats up for more than one turn just so you can remove them properly once you can afford the mana cost. which will likely mean you are already at a really big disadvantage until then
What about "banish a card from your opponent's graveyard"-like effect
One easy solution to Demonlock and Big Priest in the long-term is to print a card that reads "Remove target minion from the game" as a hard-kill against a single target which evades revival effects that being back minions like Voidlord and the Lich king off of barnes. This will help balance highroll decks that cheat out giant minions early in the game or which have extremely powerful deathrattles that you want to avoid.
It would have to be expensive and limited so that it acts as a tech card in case these effects become too dangerous in the meta (like in early cube-lock).
It would have to be expensive, to stop the T3/T4 Lich Kings or T4/T5 Voidlords? Yeah, sure :D Whats the point of it then ?:)
Agreed. Hex and Polymorph already see limited play in the classes which can run them - it isn't obvious why more expensive versions of those cards would solve the alleged problems which the OP is attempting to address . . .
Basically, this is what I am looking for--it doesn't transform or kill a minion...it just erases it from the game:
The "remove from play" (Yu-Gi-Oh's equivalent of exile) may work against warlocks, but it wouldn't do any good against Big Priest because by their very nature such an effect in HS would need to be very over costed seeing as how it is silence and an upgraded removal all in one. Big Priests can make game winning plays between turns 4-6. If the exile effect is costed at more mana than what you can use on those turns (which as I explained it should be costed appropriately) than chances are you've lost that particular match-up anyway.
problem would be these cards have to cost a lot of mana or they would dominate too hard. but if the card is expensive you would likely have to let enemy threats up for more than one turn just so you can remove them properly once you can afford the mana cost. which will likely mean you are already at a really big disadvantage until then
What about "banish a card from your opponent's graveyard"-like effect
That could work. Just keep in mind that the value of such a tech card drops drastically when facing anything that isn't Big Priest. Warlocks and N'Zoth decks run a pool of minions that is much wider than that of Big Priest. Plus, in decks that are not benefiting from highroll strategies, deathrattles, or demons than the card becomes one of the worst kind of 'Spend mana, do nothing' tech cards.
I was looking for a card with this sort of effect for my warrior deck after losing a lot to warlocks and priests, it honestly surprises me how little variety there is in card effects in this game..It feels like you have such few options being limited to class cards and standard format.
Agreed. A good thing would even be adding a similar spell to a third class. Paladin, Rogue or Hunter most preferably.
I'm not sure that would keep what balance there is already in the game. Hunters with hard punish removal/banishment effects could be crushingly OP, paladin has proven it's best when it manages board flooding or combo removal plays (Wild Pyromancer + Equality) and thus doesn't really need such a spell, and rogue could find itself equally overpowered if it could completely remove threats from a match (they already have bounce effects like Sap and Vanish).
I would like to see these classes get support for deck builds that aren't their typical every expansion archetypes (Face and midrange hunter, aggro pally, miracle rogue) but Blizzard has been building into exploring these concepts very, very, very slowly (so very slowly...) because of the threat these classes could present to the balance and fun of the game.
We don't want another Undertaker Hunter fiasco. Or midrange shaman. Or Frozen Throne pre-nerf Druid. Or Mean Streets pre-nerf Pirate Warrior. Or pre-nerf Quest Rogue. Or any other obscenely dominant deck.
Maybe there's a way to do this, perhaps in cost of the spell or adding a secondary mechanic to it, but as a straightforward Polymorph or Hex effect for one of those three classes mentioned? Could be bad news for the game.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
But then you have to define two brand new keywords, "empty" and "graveyard," as these technically don't exist in name in Hearthstone. How exactly would you define them?
Empty isn't a key word. It's just English. See Brave Archer. And "Deck" and "Hand" are not bold keywords, so I don't see why "Graveyard" should be. But if you want a definition, it would be
Graveyard: Whenever a friendly minion dies or a spell is cast, a copy of its card is added to your graveyard.
Cards would then read
N'Zoth: "Summon all Deathrattle minions from your Graveyard". Onyx Bishop: "Summon a minion from your Graveyard". Eternal Servitude: "Discover a minion from your Graveyard. Summon it." Yogg Saron: "Cast a random spell for each spell in your Graveyard."
But then you have to define two brand new keywords, "empty" and "graveyard," as these technically don't exist in name in Hearthstone. How exactly would you define them?
Empty isn't a key word. It's just English. See Brave Archer. And "Deck" and "Hand" are not bold keywords, so I don't see why "Graveyard" should be. But if you want a definition, it would be
Graveyard: Whenever a friendly minion dies, a copy of its card is added to your graveyard.
Cards would then read
N'Zoth: "Summon all Deathrattle minions from your Graveyard". Onyx Bishop: "Summon a minion from your Graveyard". Eternal Servitude: "Discover a minion from your Graveyard. Summon it."
etc.
If we made Graveyard a keyword, we'd probably want some representation of it in-game. Elder Scrolls Online uses a graveyard system that shows each player's "dead" minion cards and even has mechanics that base certain card effects and whole deck builds on trading off minions and summoning them back from your graveyard.
I think this would take quite a bit of coding, since Hearthstone doesn't currently have a representation of the graveyard, even though it technically exists. Making cards that utilize graveyards would require changes to every card referencing that, as well as the game board itself. I'm not sure Blizzard is looking to make those kinds of changes without some major money-making event set up that they are confident could offset the costs of reworking some of the base coding. The bugs and interface problems that could arise might be at least two reasons they either haven't or won't consider making a graveyard a more visually represented and mechanically engaged part of the game.
One of the best things Hearthstone has going for it is their UI (at least on the desktop and tablet versions). It's clean, understandable, and uncluttered. Cards, Heroes, and the board are all defined separately and understandably. I have no doubt Blizzard is hesitant to add to the UI. Imagine adding another icon to the mobile interface.
That being said, I'd love to see a mechanic that could nullify or target deathrattle effects outside of Silence. It would have to be severely limited, since that card or cards could effectively kill off N'Zoth, the Corruptor decks (and that's not fair to wild players at all after April, let alone all players running N'Zoth right now). Maybe something similar to Gnomeferatu, where you only get two max in a deck and they only eliminate one minion from the graveyard.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
But then you have to define two brand new keywords, "empty" and "graveyard," as these technically don't exist in name in Hearthstone. How exactly would you define them?
Empty isn't a key word. It's just English. See Brave Archer. And "Deck" and "Hand" are not bold keywords, so I don't see why "Graveyard" should be. But if you want a definition, it would be
Graveyard: Whenever a friendly minion dies or a spell is cast, a copy of its card is added to your graveyard.
Cards would then read
N'Zoth: "Summon all Deathrattle minions from your Graveyard". Onyx Bishop: "Summon a minion from your Graveyard". Eternal Servitude: "Discover a minion from your Graveyard. Summon it." Yogg Saron: "Cast a random spell for each spell in your Graveyard."
etc.
"Empty" would need to be defined in the context of the game. What - exactly - does it mean? If such a thing as 'graveyard' exists, what - exactly - happens when it's 'emptied'? Does the game act like those cards never died? Does it act like those cards never existed in my deck to start with? Can Curious Glimmerroot discover a card that was in my graveyard which was emptied? If my graveyard is emptied, is that effect immune to any new effect which could put it back into my graveyard?
The way you have defined "graveyard" would be contrary to how the game currently works. For example, Lesser Diamond Spellstoneonly resurrects actual minions that died, not copies of minions, unlike N'Zoth, which doesn't care if they're a copy or not. Furthermore, you cannot define a word by using that word in the definition.
I'm not saying I as an English speaking person or I as a Hearthstone player literally do not know what these words mean; I'm saying you need to define them in terms of the game's programming, which is getting pretty complicated already just based on these few posts. There are ways to go about 'solving' the issue you are trying to tackle that don't involve creating new keywords.
edit: Lastly, in asking the game to keep track of a graveyard, you're asking it to track up to two entirely new full decks per game. I doubt that would be a simple or small task.
Diamond Spellstone resurrects two different minions from your graveyard. If the only minions that have died on your side are two Loot Hoarders, it will only give you one minion back. It's exactly like "Resurrect two minions from your graveyard" would be, except with a distinctness criteria. It will resurrect tokens, not just minions created by playing a card, and I believe that if one token has died loads of times you have a higher chance of summoning it.
"Diamond Spellstone will only resurrect a distinct minion, meaning if you have multiple versions of the same minion die, you'll only get one copy of it back. For example, if you have multiple dead Saronite Chain Gangs, it will only resurrect one of them. This also means that minions that summon separate token minions instead of copies, such as Doppelgangster or Big-Time Racketeer will function as you expect with the spellstone, being capable of summoning the base minion as well as its generated minions."
The game already keeps track of the graveyard. It needs to to make all these resurrect spells work.
Also, the game already has a UI stub for dealing with the Graveyard. See the little skull next to your deck? That's where the graveyard UI was going to be before Blizzard decided they didn't want to use it. But just because they didn't want it then doesn't mean it isn't a good idea now.
The graveyard is something that is already in the game, is already how the game is coded, is already well understood by players (whether or not they've ever played MTG https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Graveyard - I haven't), and it currently described circumloquitously as "minions that have died this game" or "spells that have been cast this game". When a minion dies, a copy of it's card: that is, a base, unbuffed, unsilenced version - goes into a "zone" that we keep track of that we currently call "Minions that have died this game" and could easily be called "the Graveyard".
If there were cards that interacted with the Graveyard - buffed cards in it, like handbuff but for dead things, so when you ressed them they'd be stronger, devoured cards from it - remove a card from the graveyard and buff self by the removed card's health and attack, or completely cleared it, then we'd have more interesting tools to play with, and in particular a counter to N'Zoth / Deathknight / Resurrect shenanigans.
You cannot start with a basis of 'well most players know what a graveyard is, so we dont need to define it.' A brand new player who's never played a CCG before should be able to open up Hearthstone and have keywords be intuitive and/or easily explained.
This is also confused by enchantments. What happens when I cast a spell on an enemy minion? Where does the 'copy of the spell' go when the minion dies? Do spells go to the graveyard immediately or only after the minion they buffed dies? Will there/should there be a limit to graveyard size?
edit: I'm never going to win this argument. So i give up completely. Let's make a bad idea a reality.
Basically, this is what I am looking for--it doesn't transform or kill a minion...it just erases it from the game:
Gnomeferatu does that, sort of. I doubt Hearthstone will ever have removal for a minion on board that doesn't destroy it, transform it, shuffle it into a player's deck, or silence it.
Never say never, as design space is filled over time new keywords could be added.
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They had a card that essentially allowed you to do this but you also gained the card: Entomb. It was one of the most BS, frustrating cards to deal with but people still didn't run it most of the time because 6 mana was too expensive at the time. I'm confident that if it was still in standard, it would be majorly crippling Cubelock right now. Too bad they gave it to the douchiest class though... I agree though that they need more cards like that (Polymorph: Boar is a good example)
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You caught me at a bad time. But yes, that combo is broken. Aside from that demon (discards whenever it takes damage) and the "give a minion to your opponent" + defile, which is a 3 card combo, nothing else exists like this in the entire game. This is even potentially better than that, since the discard mechanic is random cards, and this two card combo is specifically for minions.
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I was looking for a card with this sort of effect for my warrior deck after losing a lot to warlocks and priests, it honestly surprises me how little variety there is in card effects in this game..It feels like you have such few options being limited to class cards and standard format.
Un-nerf Tink and make him targetable again!!!!
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Onyx Bishop: "Summon a minion from your Graveyard".
Eternal Servitude: "Discover a minion from your Graveyard. Summon it."
Yogg Saron: "Cast a random spell for each spell in your Graveyard."
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
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Diamond Spellstone resurrects two different minions from your graveyard. If the only minions that have died on your side are two Loot Hoarders, it will only give you one minion back. It's exactly like "Resurrect two minions from your graveyard" would be, except with a distinctness criteria. It will resurrect tokens, not just minions created by playing a card, and I believe that if one token has died loads of times you have a higher chance of summoning it.
"Diamond Spellstone will only resurrect a distinct minion, meaning if you have multiple versions of the same minion die, you'll only get one copy of it back. For example, if you have multiple dead Saronite Chain Gangs, it will only resurrect one of them. This also means that minions that summon separate token minions instead of copies, such as Doppelgangster or Big-Time Racketeer will function as you expect with the spellstone, being capable of summoning the base minion as well as its generated minions."
The game already keeps track of the graveyard. It needs to to make all these resurrect spells work.
Also, the game already has a UI stub for dealing with the Graveyard. See the little skull next to your deck? That's where the graveyard UI was going to be before Blizzard decided they didn't want to use it. But just because they didn't want it then doesn't mean it isn't a good idea now.
See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/291n3h/weve_actually_had_a_graveyard_button_all_along/ and mentions of "Graveyard" in https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Advanced_rulebook
The graveyard is something that is already in the game, is already how the game is coded, is already well understood by players (whether or not they've ever played MTG https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Graveyard - I haven't), and it currently described circumloquitously as "minions that have died this game" or "spells that have been cast this game". When a minion dies, a copy of it's card: that is, a base, unbuffed, unsilenced version - goes into a "zone" that we keep track of that we currently call "Minions that have died this game" and could easily be called "the Graveyard".
If there were cards that interacted with the Graveyard - buffed cards in it, like handbuff but for dead things, so when you ressed them they'd be stronger, devoured cards from it - remove a card from the graveyard and buff self by the removed card's health and attack, or completely cleared it, then we'd have more interesting tools to play with, and in particular a counter to N'Zoth / Deathknight / Resurrect shenanigans.
You cannot start with a basis of 'well most players know what a graveyard is, so we dont need to define it.' A brand new player who's never played a CCG before should be able to open up Hearthstone and have keywords be intuitive and/or easily explained.
This is also confused by enchantments. What happens when I cast a spell on an enemy minion? Where does the 'copy of the spell' go when the minion dies? Do spells go to the graveyard immediately or only after the minion they buffed dies? Will there/should there be a limit to graveyard size?
edit: I'm never going to win this argument. So i give up completely. Let's make a bad idea a reality.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Say "Wow" for RNG!