So it's 2018 and in one month or so we get the announcement for the next year standard format, and with it the next HOF list.
So I would like to discuss which cards will get rotated there.
We know team 5 plans on rotating Ice Block that's for sure. and Gadgetzan Auctioneer will also probably rotate as blizzard stated a lot of times they were looking at him as a candidate, so I won't list them in my list if you wanna elaborate and think they won't rotate out it's fine.
Last time they rotated 6 cards it might be less or more this time who knows.. list cards you think will rotate.
they either are too much of an auto include or blocking design space they also are from the classic set, and NOT the basic set.
My list:
1. Nourish - Druid has too much card draw and ramp and this card just lets them do both in the same card, depending on situation and it does a lot of both.
2. Savannah Highmane - I Think they would rotate him to make room for other strong beasts for hunter, We will hate them for that probably.
3. Divine Favor - might be too strong in aggro paladin, every time aggro paladin is a thing this card turns very problematic there.
4. Preparation - HUGE design space for rogue spells here, they need to consider rogue can cheat them with prep..
5. Shadowstep- It's also a candidate I think Blizzard is think about rotating out, cause it also was problematic a number of times.
6. Frothing Berserker - although warrior sucks atm this card was always a problem card in every tempo/aggressive warrior.
7. Leeroy Jenkins - Blizzard doesn't like charge minions that aren't pirates with 1 attack, that are played from the deck.
8. Flame Imp or Doomguard - flagship card in zoo, they might want to kill the deck (?)
9. Doomsayer - Used a lot in control a really strong card will probably see a lot of play against once the rotation kicks off or corridor creeper get the nerf bat.
BTW sorry it seems I am against Rogue, I actually like the class a lot, but it's a prediction which cards might get rotated out not which ones I want to be rotated out.
I honestly don't think they'd ever rotate class legendaries like VanCleef and Tirion, no matter their power (also, Tirion, while strong, was never really oppressive...)
Why is it when suddenly a classic card is being used in a strong deck after not being used for ages, people start suggesting that card should be moved to HoF?
This would be the final nail in the coffin for so many players.
The past Hof rotations did nothing to fix the game. They should carefully consider just throwing more cards out of standard after assuring the playerbase that classic/basic would be evergreen.
Inb4 I won't forget the devs mentioning Gadgetzan Auctioneer, but this was before the nerf to Innervate and before they mentioned the other potential candidate (Preparation).
I just want to say it quickly - back in MSOG I would have loved to see the auctioneer gone, he was really powerful in one of the decks I hated the most (jade dudu), but now, after the nerf to the evergreen cards, is his HOF really needed? What will we really achieve in reality? If druids lose him, then miracle will just be a thing in wild, there won't be a need to put The Coin in your deck anymore. And I expect people to mention big dudu, but that was just an exception.
What will happen to rogue? What other identity will be left? The I steal the cards from other classes one? The weapon one?
I'm not saying, that those classes won't survive without him, but he has always been part of them, now that they both got some hits, I don't really see a reason for the auctioneer to be rotated out, unless the devs are planning new toys for us, where the auctioneer just pops up as a potential design-space limiter.
Of course the next expansion will be as a powerhouse for most of the classes. We will see new themes and support for them.
Inb4 I don't agree with your list. I don't think, that every strong (and in a way auto-include) card should get the HOF treatment.
Not all of them are problematic, some just define the strength if a certain class. I even really got surprised, when I saw in an interview about the considered nerfs the devs mentioning Swipe. Like the hell?! Were they really ready to destroy every good card there is in a certain class? It just seems really stupid to me, the whole reason for HOF and the nerfing part should be to minimize the potential offenders, which hinder the ability for other (and new) cards to see play. Not just pushing away old strong cards for the new power-creeping ones to take their place.
I doubt that Savannah Highmane will be sent to HoF. Why would Blizzard release cards Kathrena Winterwisp and try to push a new Hunter archetype, when they put one of the best Hunter cards and a core card in those decks to the HoF?
I don't think that Preparation is a candidate because you don't even see it that often on the ladder because the most successful Rogue decks are Tempo Rogues. On the contrary, I could imagine Shadowstep being put into HoF.
I'm also not sure if cards you mentioned like Nourish, Divine Favor, Flame Imp or Doomguard are problematic enough to get rotated. Most of these cards, except Doomguard aren't even played in every deck of a class and only fit 1 or 2 archetypes.
But I'm pretty sure that Classic class Legendaries like Edwin VanCleef or Tirion Fordring won't go to HoF. Additionally Tirion Fordring's playrate has gone back because Aggro Paladins usually don't even run him. Furthermore, I also can't imagine Frothing Berserker being sent to HoF since Warrior is in a pretty bad spot right now and needs some good cards.
But I can totally agree with your opinion on Doomsayer and Leeroy Jenkins and in my opinion, there's a high chance we won't see those guys in Standard format anymore with the beginning of the new Hearthstone year in April.
Preparation is a candidate because it has been specifically mentioned in the past by the devs. Gadgetzan Auctioneer has also been specifically mentioned, so I think there is a chance there, too. I believe Ice Block was also mentioned.
I don't like Edwin VanCleef, and I think that the strength of Rogue has been too closely tied to the card for too long, but I'm not sure it's HoF worthy. Notice that the only minions in the HoF are neutral.
I don't think there's any problem with Leeroy Jenkins being a standard finisher in aggro decks. But he's neutral and the best charger, so there's a chance. I still think it's slim, given that the power levels of Sylvanas and Ragnaros the Firelord was much higher.
I think there's a chance Alexstrasza is moved to the HoF. But I think it's slim.
I think all of the rest of the cards you mentioned are no where near candidates.
I really don't think any of these cards are problematic enough to remove, and I even feel like if they wanted auctioneer gone they would have done it earlier as he's been at his most reasonable this last year. I especially think they won't touch any legendaries or zoo, a deck that has a pretty positive impact on their game since it fits what they want their game to be. Divine favor is the most problematic card on your list imo, but I don't think blizzard has ever expressed having an issue with the card. However, Ice Block seems like it won't be able to escape the next rotation as it has continually been a frustrating card that goes against Blizzard's design policy. Although it would be really harmful to quest mage, an archetype they created, the card just creates ridiculous scenarios, with 3rd ice blocks being generated to win games mages had no business winning.
Hey guys, sorry for not having much to add to the conversation, but I just got back to the game after leaving post Mean Streets, and stumbled upon this topic.
Just to educate myself a bit more on yet another aspect of the game I only witnessed remotely - did they confirm that they would keep adding cards to HoF every single standard cycle? Or is it more of a "if we need to, we will" situation?
To me, the only cards which are highly likely are Ice Block and Shadowstep, due to design space concerns. I currently don't think there are any other minions which are causing other cards to not see play at the same cost. Yes, we see a lot of Corridor Creepers and Bonemares out there, but plenty of other 7+ drops see play as well. I doubt anything like Tirion Fordring or Edwin VanCleef will be hall of famed. I don't think either is an auto-include for their class and historically have gone through periods where they didn't see much play at all depending on what style of deck was the best for their class.
I think if they really want to shake things up and also improve balance they should rotate out Classic entirely, or create a new core set of cards from Classic along with others which have rotated out (or will be rotating out soon, in the case of Old Gods, Karazhan, and Mean Streets). By cultivating a new core set they can better control what tools each class has and hopefully balance them better moving forward since the Classic set is clearly not balanced well in terms of what each class is working with as a base.
Those are the cards I think are candidate for rotation I don't think they will rotate all but I predict that if they do rotate cards it's from that list. + ice block + gadgetzan auctioneer which I am quite certain they will be HOF (Blizzard claimed they will rotate ice block and mentioned gadgetzan a few times as a big candidate.)
Hey guys, sorry for not having much to add to the conversation, but I just got back to the game after leaving post Mean Streets, and stumbled upon this topic.
Just to educate myself a bit more on yet another aspect of the game I only witnessed remotely - did they confirm that they would keep adding cards to HoF every single standard cycle? Or is it more of a "if we need to, we will" situation?
Definitely a "if we need to, we will" situation but I think that we will continue to see at least 2-5 cards rotated per year for the next 2-3 years as they continue to shift their design. As the game ages the inexperience in card game design of the team that developed the base set becomes clearer and clearer. The design of the game now is much more nuanced than the original.
As for the topic at hand. One card that has not been mentioned that I think should is Inner Fire. I know it's not a huge problem, and that most people that ask for it to be nerfed are new/bad/scrubs, but I really think it is unhealthy for the game and limiting design space. It probably won't be because that is a deck that a lot of newbs build and can be very meme-y. It's a great build-around trap card. But it severely limits the amount of health-buff that can be given to Priest (an archetype I would like explored more) and promotes exactly the kind of burst finishes that Blizzard has been systematically eliminating from the game.
Hey guys, sorry for not having much to add to the conversation, but I just got back to the game after leaving post Mean Streets, and stumbled upon this topic.
Just to educate myself a bit more on yet another aspect of the game I only witnessed remotely - did they confirm that they would keep adding cards to HoF every single standard cycle? Or is it more of a "if we need to, we will" situation?
Definitely a "if we need to, we will" situation but I think that we will continue to see at least 2-5 cards rotated per year for the next 2-3 years as they continue to shift their design. As the game ages the inexperience in card game design of the team that developed the base set becomes clearer and clearer. The design of the game now is much more nuanced than the original.
As for the topic at hand. One card that has not been mentioned that I think should is Inner Fire. I know it's not a huge problem, and that most people that ask for it to be nerfed are new/bad/scrubs, but I really think it is unhealthy for the game and limiting design space. It probably won't be because that is a deck that a lot of newbs build and can be very meme-y. It's a great build-around trap card. But it severely limits the amount of health-buff that can be given to Priest (an archetype I would like explored more) and promotes exactly the kind of burst finishes that Blizzard has been systematically eliminating from the game.
Inner fire is interesting.. was only a problem in the unguru meta but after that the card isn't used a lot.
Nozdurmo could actually be a contender. Due to the limiting time, there can be some issues with chaining animations. I wouldn't be surprised, if this one gets HoF'ed.
I don't think that Doomguard will rotate, though. It simply doesn't have such a huge impact. To begin with, the very concept of cheating out demons was pushed once a while (Krul and now the Skull), so it rather appears that it was the that their concept simply worked. Neither do I realy thing Cubelock to be oppressiv. A lot of ppl have already said that you can tech against them. It isn't 'uninteractive' per se.
Blizzard rotated neutral cards that were just too strong, or cards that limited design space, which in the original case were all class-specific.
I don't think there are any more neutral cards that are added in most decks anymore. There's, of course, plenty of class-specific cards that are generally auto-include in any deck of that class. The ones that are both auto-include and overly powerful compared to other cards are just two in my book: Savannah Highmane and Tirion Fordring. However, I just don't see them rotating them, and Tirion mainly because he's the only class legendary (nerf him, maybe/please).
So we're down to design space limitations. In my book, I think there's three:
Ice Block: Now, I don't think this is a broken card. However, it's got design issues: First, it's the only secret in the game that is pretty much impossible to break, which limits what you can print related to "having a secret active". Second, with it in existence you pretty much always have to print cards like Eater of Secrets every two years. Most other secrets you can play through, but this one basically means you need to tech this card in if Mages become strong. And third, you can't print any mage/neutral mass-healing card ever again like Reno Jackson (not that we should ever print a 29-heal card ever again).
Tundra Rhino: Again, not necessarily broken, but anything that grants a blanket "charge" to all other minions has to tread carefully. Anything that might cheat this out could break the game, or some way of getting a powerful beast in hand at under 5 mana... basically,anything printed with the Beast tag has to be evaluated with this card. I could also see (or alternatively see) [card]Scavenging Hyena[/card], which has huge snowball potentials. The problem, of course, is that Hunter is so weak currently, but perhaps removing these cards will allow Hunter to get more powerful cards that will work better in the current meta. Who knows, Hunter needs help and a new identity, and perhaps taking a step back will let it go forward.
Malygos: There's no other card remotely like him to give so much spell damage. With the advent of the ability to cheat cards out, this guy is probably one of the reasons the recruit mechanic cost so much mana.
It wouldn't surprise me if rogue lost a card, but not sure which card should be targeted.
Those 5 cards are probably most likely includes in HoF, IMO, since they limit design space or encourage broken archetypes.
I don't think Shadowstep will be sent to HoF; it would make the Quest Rogue much less viable, and it's not even a broken deck anymore. Class minion legendaries are probably safe too...VanCleef and Tirion while powerful, do not define their deck and are not even auto-includes.
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So it's 2018 and in one month or so we get the announcement for the next year standard format, and with it the next HOF list.
So I would like to discuss which cards will get rotated there.
We know team 5 plans on rotating Ice Block that's for sure. and Gadgetzan Auctioneer will also probably rotate as blizzard stated a lot of times they were looking at him as a candidate, so I won't list them in my list if you wanna elaborate and think they won't rotate out it's fine.
Last time they rotated 6 cards it might be less or more this time who knows.. list cards you think will rotate.
they either are too much of an auto include or blocking design space they also are from the classic set, and NOT the basic set.
My list:
1. Nourish - Druid has too much card draw and ramp and this card just lets them do both in the same card, depending on situation and it does a lot of both.
2. Savannah Highmane - I Think they would rotate him to make room for other strong beasts for hunter, We will hate them for that probably.
3. Divine Favor - might be too strong in aggro paladin, every time aggro paladin is a thing this card turns very problematic there.
4. Preparation - HUGE design space for rogue spells here, they need to consider rogue can cheat them with prep..
5. Shadowstep- It's also a candidate I think Blizzard is think about rotating out, cause it also was problematic a number of times.
6. Frothing Berserker - although warrior sucks atm this card was always a problem card in every tempo/aggressive warrior.
7. Leeroy Jenkins - Blizzard doesn't like charge minions that aren't pirates with 1 attack, that are played from the deck.
8. Flame Imp or Doomguard - flagship card in zoo, they might want to kill the deck (?)
9. Doomsayer - Used a lot in control a really strong card will probably see a lot of play against once the rotation kicks off or corridor creeper get the nerf bat.
10. Edwin VanCleef/Tirion Fordring - are almost in every deck of their class MIGHT get rotated.
BTW sorry it seems I am against Rogue, I actually like the class a lot, but it's a prediction which cards might get rotated out not which ones I want to be rotated out.
Wow, that list will just kill so many archetypes...
I honestly don't think they'd ever rotate class legendaries like VanCleef and Tirion, no matter their power (also, Tirion, while strong, was never really oppressive...)
You can't stop the signal.
Why is it when suddenly a classic card is being used in a strong deck after not being used for ages, people start suggesting that card should be moved to HoF?
I doubt even Team 5 is that lazy.
This would be the final nail in the coffin for so many players.
The past Hof rotations did nothing to fix the game. They should carefully consider just throwing more cards out of standard after assuring the playerbase that classic/basic would be evergreen.
Inb4 I won't forget the devs mentioning Gadgetzan Auctioneer, but this was before the nerf to Innervate and before they mentioned the other potential candidate (Preparation).
I just want to say it quickly - back in MSOG I would have loved to see the auctioneer gone, he was really powerful in one of the decks I hated the most (jade dudu), but now, after the nerf to the evergreen cards, is his HOF really needed? What will we really achieve in reality? If druids lose him, then miracle will just be a thing in wild, there won't be a need to put The Coin in your deck anymore. And I expect people to mention big dudu, but that was just an exception.
What will happen to rogue? What other identity will be left? The I steal the cards from other classes one? The weapon one?
I'm not saying, that those classes won't survive without him, but he has always been part of them, now that they both got some hits, I don't really see a reason for the auctioneer to be rotated out, unless the devs are planning new toys for us, where the auctioneer just pops up as a potential design-space limiter.
Of course the next expansion will be as a powerhouse for most of the classes. We will see new themes and support for them.
Inb4 I don't agree with your list. I don't think, that every strong (and in a way auto-include) card should get the HOF treatment.
Not all of them are problematic, some just define the strength if a certain class. I even really got surprised, when I saw in an interview about the considered nerfs the devs mentioning Swipe. Like the hell?! Were they really ready to destroy every good card there is in a certain class? It just seems really stupid to me, the whole reason for HOF and the nerfing part should be to minimize the potential offenders, which hinder the ability for other (and new) cards to see play. Not just pushing away old strong cards for the new power-creeping ones to take their place.
I doubt that Savannah Highmane will be sent to HoF. Why would Blizzard release cards Kathrena Winterwisp and try to push a new Hunter archetype, when they put one of the best Hunter cards and a core card in those decks to the HoF?
I don't think that Preparation is a candidate because you don't even see it that often on the ladder because the most successful Rogue decks are Tempo Rogues. On the contrary, I could imagine Shadowstep being put into HoF.
I'm also not sure if cards you mentioned like Nourish, Divine Favor, Flame Imp or Doomguard are problematic enough to get rotated. Most of these cards, except Doomguard aren't even played in every deck of a class and only fit 1 or 2 archetypes.
But I'm pretty sure that Classic class Legendaries like Edwin VanCleef or Tirion Fordring won't go to HoF. Additionally Tirion Fordring's playrate has gone back because Aggro Paladins usually don't even run him. Furthermore, I also can't imagine Frothing Berserker being sent to HoF since Warrior is in a pretty bad spot right now and needs some good cards.
But I can totally agree with your opinion on Doomsayer and Leeroy Jenkins and in my opinion, there's a high chance we won't see those guys in Standard format anymore with the beginning of the new Hearthstone year in April.
hall of frame for preb and shadowstep? oh u can also delete rogue lol.
Preparation is a candidate because it has been specifically mentioned in the past by the devs.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer has also been specifically mentioned, so I think there is a chance there, too.
I believe Ice Block was also mentioned.
I don't like Edwin VanCleef, and I think that the strength of Rogue has been too closely tied to the card for too long, but I'm not sure it's HoF worthy. Notice that the only minions in the HoF are neutral.
I don't think there's any problem with Leeroy Jenkins being a standard finisher in aggro decks. But he's neutral and the best charger, so there's a chance. I still think it's slim, given that the power levels of Sylvanas and Ragnaros the Firelord was much higher.
I think there's a chance Alexstrasza is moved to the HoF. But I think it's slim.
I think all of the rest of the cards you mentioned are no where near candidates.
I really don't think any of these cards are problematic enough to remove, and I even feel like if they wanted auctioneer gone they would have done it earlier as he's been at his most reasonable this last year. I especially think they won't touch any legendaries or zoo, a deck that has a pretty positive impact on their game since it fits what they want their game to be. Divine favor is the most problematic card on your list imo, but I don't think blizzard has ever expressed having an issue with the card. However, Ice Block seems like it won't be able to escape the next rotation as it has continually been a frustrating card that goes against Blizzard's design policy. Although it would be really harmful to quest mage, an archetype they created, the card just creates ridiculous scenarios, with 3rd ice blocks being generated to win games mages had no business winning.
Hey guys, sorry for not having much to add to the conversation, but I just got back to the game after leaving post Mean Streets, and stumbled upon this topic.
Just to educate myself a bit more on yet another aspect of the game I only witnessed remotely - did they confirm that they would keep adding cards to HoF every single standard cycle? Or is it more of a "if we need to, we will" situation?
So far our only precedent are cards which were rotated due to limiting design space (Conceal, Ice Lance, Sylvanas Windrunner) or due to power level that made it so other cards at the same cost didn't see play (Azure Drake and Ragnaros the Firelord).
To me, the only cards which are highly likely are Ice Block and Shadowstep, due to design space concerns. I currently don't think there are any other minions which are causing other cards to not see play at the same cost. Yes, we see a lot of Corridor Creepers and Bonemares out there, but plenty of other 7+ drops see play as well. I doubt anything like Tirion Fordring or Edwin VanCleef will be hall of famed. I don't think either is an auto-include for their class and historically have gone through periods where they didn't see much play at all depending on what style of deck was the best for their class.
I think if they really want to shake things up and also improve balance they should rotate out Classic entirely, or create a new core set of cards from Classic along with others which have rotated out (or will be rotating out soon, in the case of Old Gods, Karazhan, and Mean Streets). By cultivating a new core set they can better control what tools each class has and hopefully balance them better moving forward since the Classic set is clearly not balanced well in terms of what each class is working with as a base.
Those are the cards I think are candidate for rotation I don't think they will rotate all but I predict that if they do rotate cards it's from that list. + ice block + gadgetzan auctioneer which I am quite certain they will be HOF (Blizzard claimed they will rotate ice block and mentioned gadgetzan a few times as a big candidate.)
Nozdurmo could actually be a contender. Due to the limiting time, there can be some issues with chaining animations. I wouldn't be surprised, if this one gets HoF'ed.
I don't think that Doomguard will rotate, though. It simply doesn't have such a huge impact. To begin with, the very concept of cheating out demons was pushed once a while (Krul and now the Skull), so it rather appears that it was the that their concept simply worked. Neither do I realy thing Cubelock to be oppressiv. A lot of ppl have already said that you can tech against them. It isn't 'uninteractive' per se.
Blizzard rotated neutral cards that were just too strong, or cards that limited design space, which in the original case were all class-specific.
I don't think there are any more neutral cards that are added in most decks anymore. There's, of course, plenty of class-specific cards that are generally auto-include in any deck of that class. The ones that are both auto-include and overly powerful compared to other cards are just two in my book: Savannah Highmane and Tirion Fordring. However, I just don't see them rotating them, and Tirion mainly because he's the only class legendary (nerf him, maybe/please).
So we're down to design space limitations. In my book, I think there's three:
Ice Block: Now, I don't think this is a broken card. However, it's got design issues: First, it's the only secret in the game that is pretty much impossible to break, which limits what you can print related to "having a secret active". Second, with it in existence you pretty much always have to print cards like Eater of Secrets every two years. Most other secrets you can play through, but this one basically means you need to tech this card in if Mages become strong. And third, you can't print any mage/neutral mass-healing card ever again like Reno Jackson (not that we should ever print a 29-heal card ever again).
Tundra Rhino: Again, not necessarily broken, but anything that grants a blanket "charge" to all other minions has to tread carefully. Anything that might cheat this out could break the game, or some way of getting a powerful beast in hand at under 5 mana... basically,anything printed with the Beast tag has to be evaluated with this card. I could also see (or alternatively see) [card]Scavenging Hyena[/card], which has huge snowball potentials. The problem, of course, is that Hunter is so weak currently, but perhaps removing these cards will allow Hunter to get more powerful cards that will work better in the current meta. Who knows, Hunter needs help and a new identity, and perhaps taking a step back will let it go forward.
Malygos: There's no other card remotely like him to give so much spell damage. With the advent of the ability to cheat cards out, this guy is probably one of the reasons the recruit mechanic cost so much mana.
It wouldn't surprise me if rogue lost a card, but not sure which card should be targeted.
Ice Block
Gadgetzan Auctioneer
Malygos
Doomsayer
Leeroy Jenkins
Those 5 cards are probably most likely includes in HoF, IMO, since they limit design space or encourage broken archetypes.
I don't think Shadowstep will be sent to HoF; it would make the Quest Rogue much less viable, and it's not even a broken deck anymore. Class minion legendaries are probably safe too...VanCleef and Tirion while powerful, do not define their deck and are not even auto-includes.