Ok you guys have explained why it's a good addition, but you all missed my main point of the thread, why is he the one taking all the blame for aggro decks. He is a good addition to aggro decks, but not the reason for them, or OP a deck?
That sounds like a control perspective. In those matchups he isn't as bad. Where he is a really dumb card or OP is in those tempo board based matchups
Have you played hunter before? That alone should tell you why patches is so powerful. Do you know why hunter was unplayable for the last few expansions? It has to do with a certain pirate. Do you know why hunter is playable now? Maybe they got a weapon to synergize with deckhand to....summon a certain pirate?
I disagree with this, hunter, suffers, from lack of healing and removal, not because of a certain pirate. With last few being more control focus.
Hunter....isn't a control class. It didn't need any healing and removal when it was dominating. What are you talking about,
What I am saying is that the last couple expansions, control decks got alot more tools, and without healing or more removal options, hunter is more minion based, which would suffer as a result of. Secret hunter was good for a time, because it had a little more staying power. Hunter needs to stop being only 2 dimensional, it needs to have a control option, to not to struggle during those times.
Ok you guys have explained why it's a good addition, but you all missed my main point of the thread, why is he the one taking all the blame for aggro decks. He is a good addition to aggro decks, but not the reason for them, or OP a deck?
That sounds like a control perspective. In those matchups he isn't as bad. Where he is a really dumb card or OP is in those tempo board based matchups
Have you played hunter before? That alone should tell you why patches is so powerful. Do you know why hunter was unplayable for the last few expansions? It has to do with a certain pirate. Do you know why hunter is playable now? Maybe they got a weapon to synergize with deckhand to....summon a certain pirate?
I disagree with this, hunter, suffers, from lack of healing and removal, not because of a certain pirate. With last few being more control focus.
Hunter....isn't a control class. It didn't need any healing and removal when it was dominating. What are you talking about,
What I am saying is that the last couple expansions, control decks got alot more tools, and without healing or more removal options, hunter is more minion based, which would suffer as a result of. Secret hunter was good for a time, because it had a little more staying power. Hunter needs to stop being only 2 dimensional, it needs to have a control option, to not to struggle during those times.
Do you remember when secret hunter stopped being good?
I'll give you a hint, it was when an expansion launched featuring a legendary pirate.
You can argue all day about your hopes for hunter, but patches is a big reason that hunter was unplayable. What made hunter good was to take advantage of it's early board game to damage the opponent enough to make the hero power insane. WHen you lose the early game on turn 1 that doesn't work very well.
Patches gets the blame for the most part because he's the earliest snowball card in the game. Look at the winrates of decks running Patches and compare games where they drew him in the opening hand vs. pulled from the deck. If you hate aggro decks like I do, and hear "I'm in charge now!" in the first minute of every match, it starts to get really old and fast. I hate cards like Scavenging Hyena, Mana Worm, Prince Keleseth, Vicious Fledgling, and Frothing Berserker for the same reason. Knowing that the game can be over because they pulled Patches, and/or got a powerful opener from low cost minions (which is ridiculous), while you have a hand full of cards that cost 4+ Mana and no answer is incredibly frustrating.
Because the more reliable the first 3-turns of tempo plays are for aggro, the more likely it will win and the more reliant other decks will be on drawing a clear in time. It guarantees that the other player can make no pro-active decisions against the aggressive deck, they can only react even from turn 1.
It removes any chance that you can even call it a "game" as the player with the slow deck can't actually make any decisions. The only choices are the one that keeps them alive another turn and the one's that don't. The last thing we need is a strong, cheap, reliable way to immediately attack the board. Shaman needed Tunnel Trogg and cheap overload, Mage needs mana wyrm and some cheapo spells, pirate just needs one pirate and other one will fly out of the deck for 0 mana, thinning the deck and improving later draws.
The universality also makes it toxic to the game as you start to mulligan strictly for aggro decks regardless of your opponents class because the patches/keleseth crap fits in every deck. This further automates the game and removes even more of the interesting choices we could have had without it. That's why people target it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
Ok you guys have explained why it's a good addition, but you all missed my main point of the thread, why is he the one taking all the blame for aggro decks. He is a good addition to aggro decks, but not the reason for them, or OP a deck?
That sounds like a control perspective. In those matchups he isn't as bad. Where he is a really dumb card or OP is in those tempo board based matchups
Have you played hunter before? That alone should tell you why patches is so powerful. Do you know why hunter was unplayable for the last few expansions? It has to do with a certain pirate. Do you know why hunter is playable now? Maybe they got a weapon to synergize with deckhand to....summon a certain pirate?
I disagree with this, hunter, suffers, from lack of healing and removal, not because of a certain pirate. With last few being more control focus.
Hunter....isn't a control class. It didn't need any healing and removal when it was dominating. What are you talking about,
What I am saying is that the last couple expansions, control decks got alot more tools, and without healing or more removal options, hunter is more minion based, which would suffer as a result of. Secret hunter was good for a time, because it had a little more staying power. Hunter needs to stop being only 2 dimensional, it needs to have a control option, to not to struggle during those times.
Do you remember when secret hunter stopped being good?
I'll give you a hint, it was when an expansion launched featuring a legendary pirate.
Again another person putting the sole blame on a certain pirate, which is why I made this thread?. Lol.
I'll try to explain it as simple as possible, i'm no expert , but i would say it's something like this:
1-Patches is used as a tempo card, it's a ---"Draw a Card"-- zero mana 1/1 with Charge (when not drawn to your hand). And charge is known as a powerfull mechanism. And Tempo while "going face" is the thing that all aggro deck wants, winning by dropping very powerfull cards on curve (curvestone), overwhelming your opponent when they don't have answer to aggro cards.
2-This means that patches helps to make really strong turns, creating opressive board presence as early as turn 1 against your opponent, or a really powerfull burst with pirate synergy Southsea Captain, for example.
3-This could be not so obvious at first sight, but patches can "reduce" your deck size from 30 to 29 cards. Not a big deal, you say ? well, with a smaller deck, as aggro, you can find your answers quicker, maybe that weapon to smorc the enemy face, or that burst damage that was one card away from your lethal, patches is a free "draw a card", you paid no mana to draw patches from your deck and you found that card that you needed faster, thanks to him.
4-There's statistics that shows that people that draw patches have a way worst winrate. while people that pulled patches from the deck, usually have a really good positive winrate in the proper deck.
5- I know that it's hard to see a 1/1 as a big threat, but patches does his job pretty well, as some people said, it's the most used legendary card ever, this can explain a lot of things on how powerfull a "free card" from your deck with charge and pirate synergy can be.
Ok you guys have explained why it's a good addition, but you all missed my main point of the thread, why is he the one taking all the blame for aggro decks. He is a good addition to aggro decks, but not the reason for them, or OP a deck?
That sounds like a control perspective. In those matchups he isn't as bad. Where he is a really dumb card or OP is in those tempo board based matchups
Have you played hunter before? That alone should tell you why patches is so powerful. Do you know why hunter was unplayable for the last few expansions? It has to do with a certain pirate. Do you know why hunter is playable now? Maybe they got a weapon to synergize with deckhand to....summon a certain pirate?
I disagree with this, hunter, suffers, from lack of healing and removal, not because of a certain pirate. With last few being more control focus.
Hunter....isn't a control class. It didn't need any healing and removal when it was dominating. What are you talking about,
What I am saying is that the last couple expansions, control decks got alot more tools, and without healing or more removal options, hunter is more minion based, which would suffer as a result of. Secret hunter was good for a time, because it had a little more staying power. Hunter needs to stop being only 2 dimensional, it needs to have a control option, to not to struggle during those times.
Do you remember when secret hunter stopped being good?
I'll give you a hint, it was when an expansion launched featuring a legendary pirate.
Again another person putting the sole blame on a certain pirate, which is why I made this thread?. Lol.
It's actually true.
Look at hunter now. It's actually playable. Which version of hunter is the best? Oh look, the version that plays minions with a pirate activator weapon.
Do you think these are just massive coincidences?
If you're going to just ignore my points then you might as well be a troll. You asked for explanations and you go "haha its cause patches right".
This is very simple. Hunter NEEDS to win early board. Patches makes them unable to win the early board. That makes hunter bad. You can try to refute that argument if you want, but im not sure how hunter getting healing is going to solve this. 1/1 of stats is more than 0/0 of stats. Do I need to go deeper down the rabbit hole with you and explain how another early game with patches would beat any hunter opener? Because you need to stick beasts to land razormaw and houndmaster?
Patches is exceptional in those matchups. Hunter use to DESTROY rogue because they had to take so much face damage. Now with patches they can contest the early game combined with backstab and SI to never be in danger.
I have explained this to you enough now, you wanted my "opinion" and you have it.
As others have said... patches is the earliest snowball card.
Put another way, patches gives you early board control. Board control is super important in Hearthstone because the attacker gets to chose what minions "block" during an attack (if any). This is different than other games like magic where the defender gets to chose. You want to be the attacker in Hearthstone (have board control) especially if you're running an aggro deck.
The first few turns are really important. They decide a lot of games. And patches is the best early game card because he gives board presence and tempo.
Plus he thins your deck, has pirate synergy, and has charge (at worst 1 free damage to face). For free most of the time.
Hunter was viable with alley cat addition, at least every time I came across one that started that way usually dominated the board, just because patches joined the party, didn't make it better. Just another option. Plus hunter took alot of people to legend over the last few expansions, maybe not teir 1 decks but very viable.
Patches the Pirate is one of the best cards in the game and that's why it's played so much. Unless you draw it (which is the only downside of the card) it gives the first pirates that you play in the game the effect "draw a 1/1 with charge from your deck and put it into play", which is really a big deal, not much for the fact that your deck is 1 card thinner (which is actually relevant sometimes, but not that much), but because you actually play a 1/1 with charge for free (no cards or mana used). Having the board early is what every aggro deck wants and this guy allows you to ping off a minion without using anything or it's just a 1/1 for FREE. What I'm trying to say basically is that free board presence is really strong, patches would be strong even if had not charge (actually a lot less, since it would be even more awful to draw, but probably strong enough to see play) cause it's a FREE. If you play aggro you'd better have it in your deck with some pirates or you will get stomped by other aggro decks playing pirates. All aggro decks are based on that card and will be based on that card until it rotates out. Aggro will look a lot diffrent without patches.
Maybe it's not the point of this topic, but I actually think there's no reason to nerf it anymore at this point. It will rotate in 3 months and aggro decks are not even the best decks on the ladder, highlander priest and control warlock are actually a lot better then any aggro deck.
Hunter was viable with alley cat addition, at least every time I came across one that started that way usually dominated the board, just because patches joined the party, didn't make it better. Just another option. Plus hunter took alot of people to legend over the last few expansions, maybe not teir 1 decks but very visible.
Woah WOAH WAIT. Someone got legend with hunter?
Damn, fuck me. I guess all the meta breakdowns for the past year were meaningless. I guess all the tournaments people didn't bring hunter to...they just messed up, they could of had easy wins.
Hunter was viable with alley cat addition, at least every time I came across one that started that way usually dominated the board, just because patches joined the party, didn't make it better. Just another option. Plus hunter took alot of people to legend over the last few expansions, maybe not teir 1 decks but very visible.
Woah WOAH WAIT. Someone got legend with hunter?
Damn, fuck me. I guess all the meta breakdowns for the past year were meaningless.
Hunter was viable with alley cat addition, at least every time I came across one that started that way usually dominated the board, just because patches joined the party, didn't make it better. Just another option. Plus hunter took alot of people to legend over the last few expansions, maybe not teir 1 decks but very visible.
Woah WOAH WAIT. Someone got legend with hunter?
Damn, fuck me. I guess all the meta breakdowns for the past year were meaningless.
Obviously I'm sarcastic. Someone getting legend with a deck is meaningless. Fibonacci gets legend with control warrior every expansion and that hasn't been legit for a long time. Hunter was practically nowhere in the competitive scene during un goro and mean streets. You can't just use anecdotal evidence to declare what deck is good. If I win 5 games in a row with murloc priest that doesn't mean it's the top meta deck.
Obviously I'm sarcastic. Someone getting legend with a deck is meaningless. Fibonacci gets legend with control warrior every expansion and that hasn't been legit for a long time. Hunter was practically nowhere in the competitive scene during un goro and mean streets.
Fibonacci is a highly skilled player that has topped Legend. He could probably beat any sub-Legend player with most decks. He's not a relevant example. Thanks to Toast popularizing the idea, MANY people got to Legend with Hunter. No one's going to argue Hunter is at the top of the meta but if plebs get to Legend with a class then it's not trash. Maybe not viable -- that depends on your meaning of the word though -- but good enough to win some serious games with if you know how to play it.
Incidentally I knew you were being sarcastic; it's part of why I replied to you. Obviously. ;)
So can someone please explain why patches is taking the blame for aggro decks.
I mean every time I see a thread these days it's someone complaining about patches.
It's a dam 1/1 .......
It comes out and dies just as quick....ping and it's gone most of the time.
Yes it can get buffed, but so could any minion played.
Yes people tried pirates because of it, and guess what tribes decks can be strong. Look at murloc, demons, and Dragons.
Yet no one single out any of those tribes.
But a 1/1 is the downfall of all control decks, which is a mystery to me.
Can anyone really explain this logic.
If you honestly can't understand the reason patches is such an insane card you are probably a rank 26 player, aggro decks are not good because of patches but they are so insanely good as they are because of patches, after the rotation aggro decks will still be played and will still be good, they were before patches was a thing but they won't be as insane for sure.
The problem with patches is, among other things, the fact that it has made the pirate package essential in almost every deck. PRIESTS are even running southsea captain and patches for Christs sake. If you don't have an answer on turn 2 or 3, it can easily deal 7 damage for 3 mana with 5/5 stats across 2 minions, which stops your turn-in-respone cold and puts you off tempo, on the defensive, during the following turn. I think its objectively problematic and the hs devs even spent time, well after they crafted the card, ruminating over its release for this exact reason if my memory serves me.
I actually have fun playing it, but id give that fun up for a slightly slower meta.
I would say Patches is taking a lot of the blame for aggro decks because Pirate Warrior was a thing for so long so people need to place the blame for their frustration on the most frequently seen card of that deck, even though the deck received a big nerf with FWA. Another reason I would say is that the pirate package was easy to add to any aggro deck, and patches gave those aggro decks even more of a tempo play, which pressured many ping classes to waste a turn pinging him down instead of establishing the board. Before Patches this was somewhat less of an issue.
Patches is a free 1/1, or even more with buffs from Keleseth or Southsea Captain. It can help control the board, it thins out your deck so you draw things you actually want, and Corridor Creeper. I feel like Patches is like Bloodmage Thalnos; it might look bad because it is a 1/1 legendary, but it actually has a lot of things rolled into one card.
Thalnos is one of best card in the game, useful but far from broken.
Patches is a terrible designed card who ruined this game and Blizzard never have the balls to accept they made a terrible mistake with this abomination and refuses to fix it, no, he will be a eternal play in Wild in any agressive or semi-agressive deck forever.
Patches is a free 1/1, or even more with buffs from Keleseth or Southsea Captain. It can help control the board, it thins out your deck so you draw things you actually want, and Corridor Creeper. I feel like Patches is like Bloodmage Thalnos; it might look bad because it is a 1/1 legendary, but it actually has a lot of things rolled into one card.
Thalnos is one of best card in the game, useful but far from broken.
Patches is a terrible designed card who ruined this game and Blizzard never have the balls to accept they made a terrible mistake with this abomination and refuses to fix it, no, he will be a eternal play in Wild in any agressive or semi-agressive deck forever.
To be fair you can't really "fix" Patches in a way that won't destroy the card and almost literally turn it into a legendary restricted Stonetusk Board.
Patches gets the blame for the most part because he's the earliest snowball card in the game. Look at the winrates of decks running Patches and compare games where they drew him in the opening hand vs. pulled from the deck. If you hate aggro decks like I do, and hear "I'm in charge now!" in the first minute of every match, it starts to get really old and fast. I hate cards like Scavenging Hyena, Mana Worm, Prince Keleseth, Vicious Fledgling, and Frothing Berserker for the same reason. Knowing that the game can be over because they pulled Patches, and/or got a powerful opener from low cost minions (which is ridiculous), while you have a hand full of cards that cost 4+ Mana and no answer is incredibly frustrating.
Because the more reliable the first 3-turns of tempo plays are for aggro, the more likely it will win and the more reliant other decks will be on drawing a clear in time. It guarantees that the other player can make no pro-active decisions against the aggressive deck, they can only react even from turn 1.
It removes any chance that you can even call it a "game" as the player with the slow deck can't actually make any decisions. The only choices are the one that keeps them alive another turn and the one's that don't. The last thing we need is a strong, cheap, reliable way to immediately attack the board. Shaman needed Tunnel Trogg and cheap overload, Mage needs mana wyrm and some cheapo spells, pirate just needs one pirate and other one will fly out of the deck for 0 mana, thinning the deck and improving later draws.
The universality also makes it toxic to the game as you start to mulligan strictly for aggro decks regardless of your opponents class because the patches/keleseth crap fits in every deck. This further automates the game and removes even more of the interesting choices we could have had without it. That's why people target it.
Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
I enjoy.
I'll try to explain it as simple as possible, i'm no expert , but i would say it's something like this:
1-Patches is used as a tempo card, it's a ---"Draw a Card"-- zero mana 1/1 with Charge (when not drawn to your hand). And charge is known as a powerfull mechanism. And Tempo while "going face" is the thing that all aggro deck wants, winning by dropping very powerfull cards on curve (curvestone), overwhelming your opponent when they don't have answer to aggro cards.
2-This means that patches helps to make really strong turns, creating opressive board presence as early as turn 1 against your opponent, or a really powerfull burst with pirate synergy Southsea Captain, for example.
3-This could be not so obvious at first sight, but patches can "reduce" your deck size from 30 to 29 cards. Not a big deal, you say ? well, with a smaller deck, as aggro, you can find your answers quicker, maybe that weapon to smorc the enemy face, or that burst damage that was one card away from your lethal, patches is a free "draw a card", you paid no mana to draw patches from your deck and you found that card that you needed faster, thanks to him.
4-There's statistics that shows that people that draw patches have a way worst winrate. while people that pulled patches from the deck, usually have a really good positive winrate in the proper deck.
5- I know that it's hard to see a 1/1 as a big threat, but patches does his job pretty well, as some people said, it's the most used legendary card ever, this can explain a lot of things on how powerfull a "free card" from your deck with charge and pirate synergy can be.
As others have said... patches is the earliest snowball card.
Put another way, patches gives you early board control. Board control is super important in Hearthstone because the attacker gets to chose what minions "block" during an attack (if any). This is different than other games like magic where the defender gets to chose. You want to be the attacker in Hearthstone (have board control) especially if you're running an aggro deck.
The first few turns are really important. They decide a lot of games. And patches is the best early game card because he gives board presence and tempo.
Plus he thins your deck, has pirate synergy, and has charge (at worst 1 free damage to face). For free most of the time.
Hunter was viable with alley cat addition, at least every time I came across one that started that way usually dominated the board, just because patches joined the party, didn't make it better. Just another option. Plus hunter took alot of people to legend over the last few expansions, maybe not teir 1 decks but very viable.
Patches the Pirate is one of the best cards in the game and that's why it's played so much.
Unless you draw it (which is the only downside of the card) it gives the first pirates that you play in the game the effect "draw a 1/1 with charge from your deck and put it into play", which is really a big deal, not much for the fact that your deck is 1 card thinner (which is actually relevant sometimes, but not that much), but because you actually play a 1/1 with charge for free (no cards or mana used). Having the board early is what every aggro deck wants and this guy allows you to ping off a minion without using anything or it's just a 1/1 for FREE. What I'm trying to say basically is that free board presence is really strong, patches would be strong even if had not charge (actually a lot less, since it would be even more awful to draw, but probably strong enough to see play) cause it's a FREE. If you play aggro you'd better have it in your deck with some pirates or you will get stomped by other aggro decks playing pirates. All aggro decks are based on that card and will be based on that card until it rotates out. Aggro will look a lot diffrent without patches.
Maybe it's not the point of this topic, but I actually think there's no reason to nerf it anymore at this point. It will rotate in 3 months and aggro decks are not even the best decks on the ladder, highlander priest and control warlock are actually a lot better then any aggro deck.
The problem with patches is, among other things, the fact that it has made the pirate package essential in almost every deck. PRIESTS are even running southsea captain and patches for Christs sake. If you don't have an answer on turn 2 or 3, it can easily deal 7 damage for 3 mana with 5/5 stats across 2 minions, which stops your turn-in-respone cold and puts you off tempo, on the defensive, during the following turn. I think its objectively problematic and the hs devs even spent time, well after they crafted the card, ruminating over its release for this exact reason if my memory serves me.
I actually have fun playing it, but id give that fun up for a slightly slower meta.
I would say Patches is taking a lot of the blame for aggro decks because Pirate Warrior was a thing for so long so people need to place the blame for their frustration on the most frequently seen card of that deck, even though the deck received a big nerf with FWA. Another reason I would say is that the pirate package was easy to add to any aggro deck, and patches gave those aggro decks even more of a tempo play, which pressured many ping classes to waste a turn pinging him down instead of establishing the board. Before Patches this was somewhat less of an issue.