Tempo Rogue - no skill needed - just draw a prince
Just yesterday, I was in a mirror match with Tempo Rogue. He had the coin.
Turn 1, he got double Keleseth with a Shadowstep.
I never drew my Keleseth.
I won that game.
You are incorrect about Tempo Rogue, and probably the other archetypes as well.
exactly. with zoo at least you just play like zoo, keleseth is just a bonus.
also throw a bunch of taunts at tempo rogue and it fails. I've found out recently that a taunt-based agro deck with destroy tempo rogue quite frequently.
Really, I got no problems. The meta is fairly balanced. Most of the classes are seeing representation with each class having, at least, 2 solid/playable decks. Sure certain classes are super strong now... but they weren't before and the crap classes used to be strong (i.e. priest and warrior). And ya there are some really strong decks but not everyone plays them. And as an LCG (b/c I only play standard- I have no opinion on wild, good luck), I expect the meta to fluctuate and for class identity to shift and change from meta to meta... it keeps the game fresh. And I appreciate the balances changes mid expansion if one class or deck is just too oppressive (KFT's Innervate Jade Druid or Un'goro's secret Rogue, Gadgetzan's Pirate Warrior, etc.- even though I played many of those decks and selfishly didn't want the changes). Are there some things I want to change? Well ya, but most of them are little things that only help me win more, not necessarily make the game better. Really this is what I want out of my LCG. You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have... a genuine LCG.
But, if anything, I have to agree with Leaga a bit. My main issue is that at about the 3 month mark I get a bit stir crazy. The meta is settled and predictable right now, and has been for the past month. Game play gets stale and folks get angsty. IDK, maybe 3 expansions and still one adventure would work. 3 months in-between new cards being put out which stirs the meta constantly. But that would be alot of work for Blizzard (though I would be OK with each expansion going back to 1 class legendary and saving those extra 27 legendaries for an amazing year end adventure). I think alot of this post is just angsty-ness b/c the meta has gotten stale. 2 weeks from now these post will be how this new deck is OP and ruined that class or how that one card new card is ruining the game and needs to be nerfed... but what do I know, I'm a crappy F2P account.
ive said this before. blizzard games reward casual play, and punish competitive play. the harder you try the more you will feel like youre getting shafted. you have to play for the memes, the cool interactions, the fun decks. or even something as simple as playing a meta deck with a crazy twist thats somewhat effective.
because at the end of the day no matter how hard we push ladder 99.9% of us arent getting paid for it. so just do whats enjoyable.
you know those feelings when something happens in hearthstone and you cant stop yourself from bursting with laughter with how ridiculous some events were, or how satisfying it was to pull off some insane off meta OTK that no one has thought about. go for that
All this "no skill, all RNG"-nonsense... I wonder if anyone of you guys ever visited a statistics class at university before you make statements like this... They should really do a math test before allowing people to this forum
This -- so much this.
95 percent of the "bad feelings" surrounding Yogg were based on surprise that it performed so well. The vast majority of people were utterly dismissive of it before release, despite the warnings of the more mathematically inclined. Then when it did turn out to be good, that same ignorant majority (perhaps more of a plurality by this point) were all angry because they felt it shouldn't be that good, and that its wins were somehow undeserved, even though it was doing exactly what it was designed to do and exactly what a 10-mana card should do.
So now we have utterly skill-less cards like Ultimate Infestation that get to stick around because at least the masses can understand why it helps you win.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Blizzard doesn't want it to be as skill intensive and competitively awarding as it could be because the game would be too unfriendly to new players and too difficult to get into. Basically, it's not because they don't care, necessarily, but because they want to do good business, and new and casual players are the biggest chunk of their income.
I would say is the community that plays it. People argues how bad HS has become and suddenly the Blizzard Fan Boys show up to defend the all-mighty company against any 'intolerant' comment towards their games.
Not every game is perfect. But making a constructive dialogue* it can surpass its faults.
*Of course, the dialogue is made when both parts listen (do they?). But it seems they just listen to priests and their trauma: Purify and Pirate Warrior.
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"There are bad ways to win-- and good ways to lose. What's interesting and troubling is that it's not always clear which is which. A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all..."
We definitely need one of these topics every single day, don't we.
Hearthstone is not meant to be a rigidly competitive game, everything about it screams that and always has - just look at the artstyle for crying out loud. It's a fun casual game that yes, has some RNG in play. People pretending the meta wasn't always dominate by netdecking and tier 1 decks are having their memories sullied by nostalgia though.
If you don't like it, why do people persist to come here and bitch about it? The game is the same as it always has been.
I hate gerting to fatigue and losing, what a waste of time! On the rare occasion that does happen all the times rollin these foolish aggro decks make up for it =) see you on the battlefield, call me the meta stomper haha
All this "no skill, all RNG"-nonsense... I wonder if anyone of you guys ever visited a statistics class at university before you make statements like this... They should really do a math test before allowing people to this forum
i do, i'm good at math and know how to calculate probabilities, this is exactly that part of the game i used to love
I'm a fun of smart play, i love skill based decks I like to survive first part of the game, to draw big hand to have choice, and to make hard and smart choices, I love to know meta, and to play around opponents deck, and to outsmart my opponents
lets look at current meta Aggro/tempo: Tempo Rogue - no skill needed - just draw a prince Zoo Warlock - no skill needed - just go face Evolve Shaman - no skill needed - just draw evolve Aggro Token Druid - no skill needed - just get good start
OTK: Highlander Priest - a bit of skill is needed - just draw raza Secret Mage - no skill needed - just draw combo
Control: nothing playable
[...]
so looks like the best thing i can do is to quit
I don't like this meta as well. But you actually managed to sort all decks in the wrong categories, except for Aggro Druid. The other decks are deck types on their own (Tempo, Zoo). Razakus is a control deck. Secret Mage is a midrange deck, but you might refer to Quest Mage - which as well is a control deck. Yeah, OTK, but still Control decks. Old Patron was also an OTK deck with Frothing Berserker, but it was more of a midrange deck.
Yeah. Might be best to quit instead of whining about a game most people enjoy. Or do the same as me and take a break. But stop the whine. Your ways to fix are incredibly horrible.
1. There will always be cards considered "OP". It's the same with any other CCG or TCG. That's for example why certain TCGs use banlists (similar to the Hall of Fame in HS).
2. Bullshit. The game and all cards are centered around 30 cards and 30 hp. This way you would absolutely demolish balance - and that is quite easy to figure out.
3. Go ahead. It seems like your taste is the problem, not HS. Yeah, there are issues. But most will fix themselves with the upcoming rotation.
There is always something people cry about (this thread!). This is always happening. Imagine: Priest used to be incredibly terrible until MSoG. Before WoG shaman was incredibly horrible - with WoG (and Karazhan) it was tier 1 for almost a year. Never ending story, decks come and go. Metas come and go.
Ever wondered why so many cry babies still play this game?
the problem is that before, OP cards was like raganaros or alextrasa there was only few so powerful cards, and you had 7 turns to prepare to deal with it, nowdays each players deck contains 15+ cheap or not so cheap OP cards, and the best strategy is not to play around OP cards anymore - best strategy is to play your own OP cards asap and to hope that your opponent didn't have another OP answer.
ive said this before. blizzard games reward casual play, and punish competitive play. the harder you try the more you will feel like youre getting shafted. you have to play for the memes, the cool interactions, the fun decks. or even something as simple as playing a meta deck with a crazy twist thats somewhat effective.
People like me is a minority, and poll proves it target casual players is blizzards strategy - their goal is to make majority stay calm and pay more and more, nothing wrong with it.
I'm not complaining, just thinking loud about reasons why it's becoming less and less fun for me.
There are a big bunch of pro players who have hit top 100 legend in every single season since TFT was released...
pro players play thousands of matches a season, you can grab any deck with a 50%+ winrate and hit legend if you play alot, this proves nothing
Saying skill i mean a players ability to predict opponents moves, to be one step ahead, to be ready to deal with any (or most probable) move. Currently, having this ability is not a main win condition, main win conditions are to play a correct deck, have a good luck, and avoid misplays.
There are a big bunch of pro players who have hit top 100 legend in every single season since TFT was released...
pro players play thousands of matches a season, you can grab any deck with a 50%+ winrate and hit legend if you play alot, this proves nothing
Saying skill i mean a players ability to predict opponents moves, to be one step ahead, to be ready to deal with any (or most probable) move. Currently, having this ability is not a main win condition, main win conditions are to play a correct deck, have a good luck, and avoid misplays.
That is legit the name of the game in every TCG I have ever played. Luck is a MUCH bigger factor in HS obviously, but luck is still a major deciding factor.
It's so fun, seeing a poll made to thrash the state of the game, when most of the votes says otherwise.
i'm absolutley not surprised with poll results
i'm clearly understand that there are lots of people who don't know math and just love to drop a huge Yogg-Saron, Hope's End and laugh watching him killing themselves while drinking a beer.
It's so fun, seeing a poll made to thrash the state of the game, when most of the votes says otherwise.
i'm absolutley not surprised with poll results
i'm clearly understand that there are lots of people who don't know math and just love to drop a huge Yogg-Saron, Hope's End and laugh watching him killing themselves while drinking a beer.
LoL. I played a yogg-trap hunter in old gods, it was a ton of fun. killed me more than it won me games :D
RNG from draws kills me, and the stagnant meta changes due to long gaps in releases (which cant be helped) really suck the last two months of every cycle
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also throw a bunch of taunts at tempo rogue and it fails. I've found out recently that a taunt-based agro deck with destroy tempo rogue quite frequently.
Really, I got no problems. The meta is fairly balanced. Most of the classes are seeing representation with each class having, at least, 2 solid/playable decks. Sure certain classes are super strong now... but they weren't before and the crap classes used to be strong (i.e. priest and warrior). And ya there are some really strong decks but not everyone plays them. And as an LCG (b/c I only play standard- I have no opinion on wild, good luck), I expect the meta to fluctuate and for class identity to shift and change from meta to meta... it keeps the game fresh. And I appreciate the balances changes mid expansion if one class or deck is just too oppressive (KFT's Innervate Jade Druid or Un'goro's secret Rogue, Gadgetzan's Pirate Warrior, etc.- even though I played many of those decks and selfishly didn't want the changes). Are there some things I want to change? Well ya, but most of them are little things that only help me win more, not necessarily make the game better. Really this is what I want out of my LCG. You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have... a genuine LCG.
But, if anything, I have to agree with Leaga a bit. My main issue is that at about the 3 month mark I get a bit stir crazy. The meta is settled and predictable right now, and has been for the past month. Game play gets stale and folks get angsty. IDK, maybe 3 expansions and still one adventure would work. 3 months in-between new cards being put out which stirs the meta constantly. But that would be alot of work for Blizzard (though I would be OK with each expansion going back to 1 class legendary and saving those extra 27 legendaries for an amazing year end adventure). I think alot of this post is just angsty-ness b/c the meta has gotten stale. 2 weeks from now these post will be how this new deck is OP and ruined that class or how that one card new card is ruining the game and needs to be nerfed... but what do I know, I'm a crappy F2P account.
ive said this before. blizzard games reward casual play, and punish competitive play. the harder you try the more you will feel like youre getting shafted. you have to play for the memes, the cool interactions, the fun decks. or even something as simple as playing a meta deck with a crazy twist thats somewhat effective.
because at the end of the day no matter how hard we push ladder 99.9% of us arent getting paid for it. so just do whats enjoyable.
you know those feelings when something happens in hearthstone and you cant stop yourself from bursting with laughter with how ridiculous some events were, or how satisfying it was to pull off some insane off meta OTK that no one has thought about. go for that
Please guys, this game requires 1% skill. And with the upcoming expansion, 0%.
A dumbed down kids game where it's just better to flip a coin to see who wins. Same result.
Too much RNG. Fun if it's in your favor but extremely frustrating when it doesn't.
I'm just going to try a few cards from K&C and after, move on like always I assume.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Blizzard doesn't want it to be as skill intensive and competitively awarding as it could be because the game would be too unfriendly to new players and too difficult to get into. Basically, it's not because they don't care, necessarily, but because they want to do good business, and new and casual players are the biggest chunk of their income.
I would say is the community that plays it. People argues how bad HS has become and suddenly the Blizzard Fan Boys show up to defend the all-mighty company against any 'intolerant' comment towards their games.
Not every game is perfect. But making a constructive dialogue* it can surpass its faults.
*Of course, the dialogue is made when both parts listen (do they?). But it seems they just listen to priests and their trauma: Purify and Pirate Warrior.
"There are bad ways to win-- and good ways to lose. What's interesting and troubling is that it's not always clear which is which. A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all..."
We definitely need one of these topics every single day, don't we.
Hearthstone is not meant to be a rigidly competitive game, everything about it screams that and always has - just look at the artstyle for crying out loud. It's a fun casual game that yes, has some RNG in play. People pretending the meta wasn't always dominate by netdecking and tier 1 decks are having their memories sullied by nostalgia though.
If you don't like it, why do people persist to come here and bitch about it? The game is the same as it always has been.
I hate gerting to fatigue and losing, what a waste of time! On the rare occasion that does happen all the times rollin these foolish aggro decks make up for it =) see you on the battlefield, call me the meta stomper haha
now it is turning to be more an one-armed bandit with a 50% win ratio
target casual players is blizzards strategy - their goal is to make majority stay calm and pay more and more, nothing wrong with it.
pro players play thousands of matches a season, you can grab any deck with a 50%+ winrate and hit legend if you play alot, this proves nothing
Saying skill i mean a players ability to predict opponents moves, to be one step ahead, to be ready to deal with any (or most probable) move.
Currently, having this ability is not a main win condition, main win conditions are to play a correct deck, have a good luck, and avoid misplays.
It's so fun, seeing a poll made to thrash the state of the game, when most of the votes says otherwise.
RNG from draws kills me, and the stagnant meta changes due to long gaps in releases (which cant be helped) really suck the last two months of every cycle