Here is my insight from what I believe is a "standard" Hearthstone player.
I do enjoy deckbuilding, but I enjoy winning as well. (Or more specifically, I don't enjoy losing as much).
I have a couple decks that are pure homebrew ... they are built from scratch, and really don't even fall into any top archetype. I fell like they are about as refined as they can get, without starting to creep into a "modified" netdeck territory. They are pretty consistent in the 45% Win Rate range, and that's about all I think they have in them. They both can streak together some wins, and because of that, they have allowed me to climb into the Rank 10 bracket. But they fall flat right there ... every time.
At that point, I will usually switch to a modified netdeck ... something more of a meta deck, usually with 3 or 4 cards swapped out, either by necessity (I don't have the cards), or preference. (I run Lich King in almost every deck. That card alone has won me several games, and I can't say it has lost me any). I don't think I have a single deck that is outright copy / paste from a list, but I do have plenty that would be considered a "netdeck" by most.
I would say if I had the cards, I would probably spend more time making creative decks in Wild where it is more forgiving, but in Standard ladder, if you wan't to win (or just not lose as much), sticking to a refined and tested deck is about the only way for your everyday HS player to make it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
I think most casual users don't know what net decking is or means. But they do see the most played cards and build decks to match what's working out there.
It does seem, as others have mentioned, that the issue is more with there not being enough powerful cards available. So we are forced to build decks around the same same same same cards, which lacks variety.
But worse, it makes it very difficult for those of us who like to get creative with deck building to do anything different (or at least what feels different).
I'm hopeful that this new expansion will open up even more deck varieties because so many of the cards shown so far are "OP". We need more OP card options. To the point where there are too many to use them all. This will create much more deck variety and cater more to the creative builders and experimenters, while adding more of a freshness factor months into the season.
I am grateful to the community that helps develop decks that I can try and that saves me time.
Netdecking happens for many reasons. To call it bad, cancerous, etc. is just silly, and a sign of immaturity. To think that this glorious community would instantly happen if people stopped netdecking is just idiotic and wishful dreaming.
WELL I play since beta and almost only priest. In the latest expansions I figured out myself what would work with the new priest and neutral cards. In frozen knights i actually build my own raza reaper highlander before the first entdeckt was online. As I saw shadow essence I thought myself that a ‚few minions, much spell‘ deck would work. But i didn’t think of the details because big priest is not the type of gameplay i like. A few days later there were sure refined versions of these ideas. So, why shouldn’t I use the info and refine my deck too? Even after that i sure change a few cards for my personal taste anyway
Firstly, we're not going to fully understand each other. That is a given. I do try my best though, and I am assuming you do as well. We're limited to using language to try to get our points across after all. I see I misunderstood some of what you said, for that I apologize. It was just how I read you.
Still, you keep talking about how people are usually going for the easy way, which is true. I believe it might hold for the "I hate net decking" crowd as well. There are options for this crowd, but it is not on the ladder. One could make homebrew groups, and play friendly games together. It does not have to be limited to only real life friends. Just on this site, there seem to be an abundance of likeminded individuals who wants a more chill game where you can play whatever.
Problem is, like you said, most people want to go for the easy way. If you are one of those who don't always go for the easy way, you could take advantage of that. Do the hard thing and create a community. Make it easy to play homebrew decks for those who don't have the time and commitment to make the infrastructure. Just take a look at the tournament scene. They make their own tools and play the way they want, regardless of what happens on the ladder. Not everyone wants this extra work. Some people do it though, and it paves the way for others to play in a certain way that they enjoy.
If you're a strong believer in non-netdecking, actually do something about it. If you don't want this extra work, I guess you also want it easy.
If you're just an observer though, then this is not directed at you; but instead at anyone else who might be reading this who wants to play in a different world; without the ladder and the net decking that inevitably comes with it.
Firstly, I'm glad to see that kind of constructive answer instead of destructive one. Thanks.
I guess one of the community's mistake is that they don't know what they are discussing.
I've tried a mini-community for homebrew decks but it did not go well for me. Everyone brought competitive decks there even I set some rules. Also I have tried to join a group which uses only common cards and tried to play in them; it did not work too aswell. Everyone uses same decks there too ( Bonemares everywhere) also believe me or not when i speak with some of them, they said me they got their "common" deck from web ! So trying to orginize a little community in an existing one doesn't helps. Same problems there. They could find some way to break your rules. People is people. Humans are humans. In this case, I'm trying to reach people as much as I find from topics like here. It did not help too I know but at least I'm trying to defend what I believe.
You also can see people here who defends their thoughts with wrong ways. There are people who shares their thoughts but They are that kind to answer them like " calling netdecking bad is silly" or "what's worse than netdecking? this threads". People must understand that anyone doesn't judge anyone for using netdecks, They only say they don't like it for some reasons like "it harshs game, it kills diversity of decks, etc." but people who doesn't like netdecking can be rude too I'm aggreeing it. anyways, I'm glad we could understand each other.
In the other hand, Like I already said on my earlier comments;
If you realised that there is always 1 or 2 viable card for its responsible slot so we have to pay attention to that. That's the earning money strategy of blizzard. So we can't do anything about netdecking as long as there are 2 or 3 viable decks. I can enjoy with playing any decks but most of the community enjoys wins like you so it kills the diversity. Blizzard won't change and according to this community won't change.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
A better question is why do people think netdecking deserves criticism in the first place?
All these comments about building a healthy community with a bunch of varying deck types are silly. There are four deck types: Aggro, control, midrange, and combo. Everything is basically one of, or a merge of, those four types. Given that, along with the fact that card game design companies, like Blizzard, inherently create some cards to be better than others, there will always be a limitation on deck design.
Here's an example: A few months back I decided to homebrew a Warlock deck based around heavy removal and demon buffing (and if you say it's already been done, well, my point exactly) - I made it, played it, it did ok, but nothing great. Over the next few days I start to see similar decks pop up, and I go online and see it's the latest thing for Warlocks that people are trying. The optimal decks were better than what I put together with my limited card pool, but the gist of the deck was the same. Now, did I netdeck? No. Was my idea already out there, and in a better fashion? Yes.
The point is, whatever you homebrew, odds are it's been done, and probably done better, by people who are really good at deck building. If it's not out there, then the odds are it's a terrible idea. If your homebrew gets roflstomped by a netdeck, then odds are your homebrew just isn't very good. Face facts.
As a father of two who works full time and enjoys doing things other than HS, I simply don't have the time (or patience) to sit around and homebrew for hours to try to come up with something that might win a few games and allow me to complete my quests. I netdeck (often needing to sub out some cards) and happily do so. I am grateful to the community that helps develop decks that I can try and that saves me time.
Netdecking happens for many reasons. To call it bad, cancerous, etc. is just silly, and a sign of immaturity. To think that this glorious community would instantly happen if people stopped netdecking is just idiotic and wishful dreaming.
It is a card game with 9 classes and you said that there are actually 4 deck archetypes. According to this there must be 9x4 viable decks. When you saw 36 viable decks on ladder? Never! Ok, I will be more generous, 2 archetypes for all classes. Have you ever seen 18 viable decks in ladder? I have not. So I recommend you to see my upper post.
While There should be bunch of every archetype for every class (like 3 combo, 3 control, 3 mid-range, 3 aggro for only hunter), there is never more than 5 viable decks in ladder. Netdecking forces people to play same decks, Blizzard forces community to netdecking (with their engineering and their "Pro" and streamer players which are boosted by them). So you people keep believing netdecking is a growing way to the game. Sweet Dreams.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I am grateful to the community that helps develop decks that I can try and that saves me time.
Netdecking happens for many reasons. To call it bad, cancerous, etc. is just silly, and a sign of immaturity. To think that this glorious community would instantly happen if people stopped netdecking is just idiotic and wishful dreaming.
Your post is odd. The title doesn't match the content. By your title I thought you were going to defend netdecking then you poopoo it basically your whole post.
It is a card game with 9 classes and you said that there are actually 4 deck archetypes. According to this there must be 9x4 viable decks. When you saw 36 viable decks on ladder? Never! Ok, I will be more generous, 2 archetypes for all classes. Have you ever seen 18 viable decks in ladder? I have not. So I recommend you to see my upper post.
While There should be bunch of every archetype for every class (like 3 combo, 3 control, 3 mid-range, 3 aggro for only hunter), there is never more than 5 viable decks in ladder. Netdecking forces people to play same decks, Blizzard forces community to netdecking (with their engineering and their "Pro" and streamer players which are boosted by them). So you people keep believing netdecking is a growing way to the game. Sweet Dreams.
You're quite mistaken in several ways. Allow me to explain:
1. You will never see all 9 classes with each deck archetype be viable. Never. Not just in Hearthstone, but in any card game like this. Why? Because the effectiveness of archetypes and classes will depend on what is printed. Some sets will lean heavier to aggro, for example, which will push out other archetypes. Some classes will get better cards than others, making some weak and some strong. That's just the nature of this style of game.
2. Even taking your generous example, you are flawed because you're still assuming every class has to be strong. As stated, that will not happen. Should it? Maybe, I dunno. Will it? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with netdecking, that has to do with the cards Blizzard chooses to print. There's probably some extreme difficulty in trying to make all 9 classes be viable as well. Disagree? Make your own card game with 9 balanced classes with 2-3 viable decks each. Let me know how that goes.
3. Never more than 5 viable decks on the ladder? Doing some searching for top HS decks, I found an average of 10 viable tier 1/2 decks, and of those decks, each has at least 2-3 variants. There's a lot of options out there.
4. The bottom line that you can't admit to yourself is this: You want to make fun decks and be able to win, but those fun decks lose to netdecks, so you cry foul because you feel forced to play something you don't want to in order to be competitive. I know because I used to think that exact same way. I grew up and realized that you either play to win or play to have fun. if you want to play casually and have fun with weird wacky decks, play with your friends. If you want to be competitive, then you play the best decks. Simple as that. Enough of this netdecking is bad nonsense.
It is a card game with 9 classes and you said that there are actually 4 deck archetypes. According to this there must be 9x4 viable decks. When you saw 36 viable decks on ladder? Never! Ok, I will be more generous, 2 archetypes for all classes. Have you ever seen 18 viable decks in ladder? I have not. So I recommend you to see my upper post.
While There should be bunch of every archetype for every class (like 3 combo, 3 control, 3 mid-range, 3 aggro for only hunter), there is never more than 5 viable decks in ladder. Netdecking forces people to play same decks, Blizzard forces community to netdecking (with their engineering and their "Pro" and streamer players which are boosted by them). So you people keep believing netdecking is a growing way to the game. Sweet Dreams.
You're quite mistaken in several ways. Allow me to explain:
1. You will never see all 9 classes with each deck archetype be viable. Never. Not just in Hearthstone, but in any card game like this. Why? Because the effectiveness of archetypes and classes will depend on what is printed. Some sets will lean heavier to aggro, for example, which will push out other archetypes. Some classes will get better cards than others, making some weak and some strong. That's just the nature of this style of game.
2. Even taking your generous example, you are flawed because you're still assuming every class has to be strong. As stated, that will not happen. Should it? Maybe, I dunno. Will it? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with netdecking, that has to do with the cards Blizzard chooses to print. There's probably some extreme difficulty in trying to make all 9 classes be viable as well. Disagree? Make your own card game with 9 balanced classes with 2-3 viable decks each. Let me know how that goes.
3. Never more than 5 viable decks on the ladder? Doing some searching for top HS decks, I found an average of 10 viable tier 1/2 decks, and of those decks, each has at least 2-3 variants. There's a lot of options out there.
4. The bottom line that you can't admit to yourself is this: You want to make fun decks and be able to win, but those fun decks lose to netdecks, so you cry foul because you feel forced to play something you don't want to in order to be competitive. I know because I used to think that exact same way. I grew up and realized that you either play to win or play to have fun. if you want to play casually and have fun with weird wacky decks, play with your friends. If you want to be competitive, then you play the best decks. Simple as that. Enough of this netdecking is bad nonsense.
If you ve really grew up, u must be the one Who you read all of my comments in Order to blame me for something. How can you blame me about something which you dont know about? I m not defending winning with fun decks, please Just read my earlier comments. I ve even Said that people ruined our little homebrew Group with their mindless netdecks and you call it A miserable cry which is done by A person Who cant win in ladder with his/her homebrew deck. That's not like that. Also i can already win netdecks with my homebrews. My problem is only monotony and the enjoyement which i could achieve more but am achieveing less because of the current state of decks im facing again and again.
The truth is, you don't deserve this explanation with your miserable bias which you think you can have some information about A guy from A short comment and you think you have a right to blame anyone while you dont know anything about him/her. Ok you dont have to aggree what i defend but Who gives you A right to blame me about what I want? So you did not grow as you think. Firstly grow, then come and discuss with me, it is not A fight, Just A discussing. Im also blaming Blizzard more. Firstly observe the guy you discuss with then bring your stuff to react.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
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Here is my insight from what I believe is a "standard" Hearthstone player.
I do enjoy deckbuilding, but I enjoy winning as well. (Or more specifically, I don't enjoy losing as much).
I have a couple decks that are pure homebrew ... they are built from scratch, and really don't even fall into any top archetype. I fell like they are about as refined as they can get, without starting to creep into a "modified" netdeck territory. They are pretty consistent in the 45% Win Rate range, and that's about all I think they have in them. They both can streak together some wins, and because of that, they have allowed me to climb into the Rank 10 bracket. But they fall flat right there ... every time.
At that point, I will usually switch to a modified netdeck ... something more of a meta deck, usually with 3 or 4 cards swapped out, either by necessity (I don't have the cards), or preference. (I run Lich King in almost every deck. That card alone has won me several games, and I can't say it has lost me any). I don't think I have a single deck that is outright copy / paste from a list, but I do have plenty that would be considered a "netdeck" by most.
I would say if I had the cards, I would probably spend more time making creative decks in Wild where it is more forgiving, but in Standard ladder, if you wan't to win (or just not lose as much), sticking to a refined and tested deck is about the only way for your everyday HS player to make it.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
I think most casual users don't know what net decking is or means. But they do see the most played cards and build decks to match what's working out there.
It does seem, as others have mentioned, that the issue is more with there not being enough powerful cards available. So we are forced to build decks around the same same same same cards, which lacks variety.
But worse, it makes it very difficult for those of us who like to get creative with deck building to do anything different (or at least what feels different).
I'm hopeful that this new expansion will open up even more deck varieties because so many of the cards shown so far are "OP". We need more OP card options. To the point where there are too many to use them all. This will create much more deck variety and cater more to the creative builders and experimenters, while adding more of a freshness factor months into the season.
WELL I play since beta and almost only priest. In the latest expansions I figured out myself what would work with the new priest and neutral cards. In frozen knights i actually build my own raza reaper highlander before the first entdeckt was online. As I saw shadow essence I thought myself that a ‚few minions, much spell‘ deck would work. But i didn’t think of the details because big priest is not the type of gameplay i like. A few days later there were sure refined versions of these ideas. So, why shouldn’t I use the info and refine my deck too? Even after that i sure change a few cards for my personal taste anyway
Firstly, I'm glad to see that kind of constructive answer instead of destructive one. Thanks.
I guess one of the community's mistake is that they don't know what they are discussing.
I've tried a mini-community for homebrew decks but it did not go well for me. Everyone brought competitive decks there even I set some rules. Also I have tried to join a group which uses only common cards and tried to play in them; it did not work too aswell. Everyone uses same decks there too ( Bonemares everywhere) also believe me or not when i speak with some of them, they said me they got their "common" deck from web ! So trying to orginize a little community in an existing one doesn't helps. Same problems there. They could find some way to break your rules. People is people. Humans are humans. In this case, I'm trying to reach people as much as I find from topics like here. It did not help too I know but at least I'm trying to defend what I believe.
You also can see people here who defends their thoughts with wrong ways. There are people who shares their thoughts but They are that kind to answer them like " calling netdecking bad is silly" or "what's worse than netdecking? this threads". People must understand that anyone doesn't judge anyone for using netdecks, They only say they don't like it for some reasons like "it harshs game, it kills diversity of decks, etc." but people who doesn't like netdecking can be rude too I'm aggreeing it. anyways, I'm glad we could understand each other.
In the other hand, Like I already said on my earlier comments;
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Your post is odd. The title doesn't match the content. By your title I thought you were going to defend netdecking then you poopoo it basically your whole post.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!