You kind of shoot yourself in the foot with a thread like this. You obviously created an account and visit this website to see decks that are created and what people are playing. This proves to me that you yourself are a netdecker. If you're not, then you wouldn't care either way, especially to create a thread like this. Here we go again with the "I'm a god because I think that I'm Homebrew". You're not. You follow other peoples ideas. And you also create decks that are no different than what people run if you are trying to rack up wins. Post a deck you think that is a good deck that you created and we'll have a good laugh about it. Until then. Create more creative threads.
Using this portal does not prove that he is a netdecker.
For example I'm using this site for new expansion reveals and news, Sharing my thoughts about cards, fun creations, building decks with new expansion reveals only to keep them for release (because i can't do that in-game or with an additional tracker), helping and advicing people who is trying to build a deck or craft a card.
By this logic, race car drivers don't deserve recognition because they didn't design and build their own cars. HS might be a mess of a game but there's still 10-15% variance in winning that comes down to actually playing well, rather than just adding up the numbers on your cards to see if it's the same as the amount of mana you have that turn.
I guess you got it wrong. It is more like an artist. You cannot be a good artist by painting Mona Lisa. You must create something new. It is the point. Driver example doesn't fit hearthstone in my opinion.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Netdecking is part of learning the game. When I started the game 2 years ago, I was playing only basic decks based on Trump's Teachings. Then I made some changes that I considered to be improvements at the time. After I got a few more resources, I tried to see what's actually being played and what are the best decks in the game. So I netdecked a midrange hunter list but I was missing mad scientists and dr. Boom and I had to think of replacements myself. At the time I didn't know secrets are bad in the list if I don't run scientists so my list was exactly like the one on the internet just without Boom and scientists. Yet I managed to achieve rank 4 that month and I got to see a different world of people that were way better than me. I mean I was pushing my best there and played for days but I just couldn't go past rank 4. That told me that I had a lot more to improve if I want to be good at the game. I stopped netdecking from sites and started copying players like Thijs that had videos on youtube also working on understanding why he's doing what is doing. Discovered twitch later and other better pros with the time and when un'goro was released, I even got ahead of the meta and thought of adding elementals to the quest rogue when everyone was playing moroes and violet teachers.
The conclusion is that it's natural to copy from others that are better than you in order to learn and become better yourself. Now I know that there are some people who netdeck and have no interest in actually learning the game/ the deck choices and I don't like them as much as I don't like people that claim they play for fun with their homebrew decks. Staying in the same condition and not improving at all is no fun and pathetic.
You kind of shoot yourself in the foot with a thread like this. You obviously created an account and visit this website to see decks that are created and what people are playing. This proves to me that you yourself are a netdecker. If you're not, then you wouldn't care either way, especially to create a thread like this. Here we go again with the "I'm a god because I think that I'm Homebrew". You're not. You follow other peoples ideas. And you also create decks that are no different than what people run if you are trying to rack up wins. Post a deck you think that is a good deck that you created and we'll have a good laugh about it. Until then. Create more creative threads.
Using this portal does not prove that he is a netdecker.
For example I'm using this site for new expansion reveals and news, Sharing my thoughts about cards, fun creations, building decks with new expansion reveals only to keep them for release (because i can't do that in-game or with an additional tracker), helping and advicing people who is trying to build a deck or craft a card.
By this logic, race car drivers don't deserve recognition because they didn't design and build their own cars. HS might be a mess of a game but there's still 10-15% variance in winning that comes down to actually playing well, rather than just adding up the numbers on your cards to see if it's the same as the amount of mana you have that turn.
I guess you got it wrong. It is more like an artist. You cannot be a good artist by painting Mona Lisa. You must create something new. It is the point. Driver example doesn't fit hearthstone in my opinion.
Yea, it's like saying I buy cigarettes and have a lighter, but I don't smoke. I only have them in case someone needs a cigarette or wants to know what cigarettes are. I don't actually smoke. If you visit Hearthpwn you are most likely a netdecker. Go ahead and pretend you're not. We believe you.
The point is that you do some form of netdecking. Whether you are playing a deck that you created, or playing the deck that was posted. You are still looking at decks on this site and seeing what's good. What card combinations people are putting together. And, you're using mechanics that someone posted. Whether or not your deck is the exact same as the deck that was posted, you can't sit here and try and make us believe that you visit Hearthpwn but don't look at decks created and try some of them out.
By this logic, race car drivers don't deserve recognition because they didn't design and build their own cars. HS might be a mess of a game but there's still 10-15% variance in winning that comes down to actually playing well, rather than just adding up the numbers on your cards to see if it's the same as the amount of mana you have that turn.
I guess you got it wrong. It is more like an artist. You cannot be a good artist by painting Mona Lisa. You must create something new. It is the point. Driver example doesn't fit hearthstone in my opinion.
I like the artist analogy and think it represents another one of the ways of looking at the game.
Driver analogy: - My goal is to win games and obtain the rewards for doing so. - Winning games is a combination of a good deck and playing well (and getting lucky sometimes) - I can't or don't want to design good decks for whatever reason. - Other people design good decks. If I use one and play well, I'll be more likely to win games.
Artist analogy: - My goal is to make something memorable and use it to win games, and therefore obtain the rewards for doing so. - A memorable deck would be one that my opponent hasn't seen before, so I innovate when I can. - I have the creativity and time to put into designing new decks and I'm not afraid to try new ideas. - Other people design efficient decks, but efficiency isn't my main focus; my main focus is (themeing or a cool combo or using a card people haven't thought about or...)
I'd suggest there's also an inbetween:
The Commercial Artist analogy: - My goal is create good decks for myself and other people to enjoy. - The goal of the game is to win games, so the deck should be able to do that, or my deck won't be popular. - While I have the time to put into the game to design decks, I'm aware certain strategies are usually always powerful, so I'll start there every time. - Other people design good/efficient decks; while I don't want to copy them, I can use them as a gauge for what works and/or what people want to play.
Well, if you want to play in a competitive way, netdecking is a rational way to do it. I mean, look at highjump or whatever sport.. Everyone uses the same technique, because its optimal.
The Commercial Artist analogy: - My goal is create good decks for myself and other people to enjoy. - The goal of the game is to win games, so the deck should be able to do that, or my deck won't be popular. - While I have the time to put into the game to design decks, I'm aware certain strategies are usually always powerful, so I'll start there every time. - Other people design good/efficient decks; while I don't want to copy them, I can use them as a gauge for what works and/or what people want to play.
The only thing that i did not agree here is the goal of the game.
The goal of the game must be enjoyement, not win. What I mentioned starts here. I don't bother anyones enjoyement style as winning, so they should not bother me as playing always same decks. Netdecking brings monotony and it makes me bore while playing against always same decks.
What I am looking for is only deck variety different viable cards but it seems stopping this netdecking situation will not stop that so I guess a big balance which all decks can be viable ingame will satisfy everyone. either netdeckers and non-netdeckers can be happy with a great balance but blizzard earns money from this unbalance stuff which is the real answer the whole netdecking discussions.
If you realised that there is always 1 or 2 viable card for its responsible slot so we have to pay attention to that. That's the earning money strategy of blizzard. So we can't do anything about netdecking as long as there are 2 or 3 viable decks. I can enjoy with playing any decks but most of the community enjoys wins like you so it kills the diversity. Blizzard won't change and according to this community won't change.
So; it is nonsense to discuss netdecking anymore.
Edit: I am inviting you to watch some twitch legend streamer. I've just checked on there yet and what I saw is only razakus priest and midrange rogue. There are no diversity, no enjoyement. It is more like a job instead of being a hobby. It is a game guys, You must acknowledge that firstly !
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Now before You start with how wrong i am, i would like to make my argument and explain to you what netdecking in Cards like hearthstone and other Cards do to either player bases or the meta itself and how it makes Points of view very bias
Let me define what netdecking is before we start. Netdecking is the act of if someone sees a deck on reddit or a deck they see that wins a tournament will copy and paste it card for card based off of what they saw. Now the main motives of doing this is sometimes humans see something that gets good results for someone and they feel like they would want to have that same success, other wise known as "the bandwagon effect". The other motive is probably the fact that some people will admit they dont have the brains to make their own deck ideas and they just feel like they want to make something that will give them a good experience, kinda like the first point i made.
Now, why is netdecking a problem? The problem i see with netdecking nowadays is that players who play what is viewed as "the best deck" often have their points of views in a way where its bias towards the current tier 1 or 2 decks. This brings me to the point of where people tend to have a more jaded point of view when it comes to seeing new ideas or ways to play differently on other decks.
The other thing that gets effected by netdecking is card reviews. right now we are in a time where we will be getting over 100 cards in the meta starting in a few weeks, granted not all the cards will be good enough to be good and thats to be expected. however the problem is the players who play nothing but netdecks or meta decks have their points of view skewed in one direction of if it doesnt counter deck XYZ or build upon Deck XYZ, then its not worth trying. There has been so many sets where ive see this happen its to the point where you can tell where the lack of creative thought is happening because changes are that player only plays decks that they think is an established point of view.
I know this will not be a popular point of View to have considering im sure most of you will say there is nothing wrong with what i mentioned, and to that i would argue that you are either part of the base i was mentioning or you just dont know it. Is there something wrong with trying something based off how cool it looks to play? No, in fact i think it helps to learn what works and what doesnt. there have been a few decklists ive seen that i tried and found were interesting. The point i am making is there is a form of Tribalism in gaming where its weird to try things out for the fact of having fun.
maybe im wrong? maybe its just something to accept and its just the fact i need to "jump on the bandwagon" let me know your thoughts. one last thing, if youre gonna Comment with " people tend to netdeck cause they want to play whats good" 1, thats subjective, 2. you just proved my point.
The problem with this post overall is that you are effectively attempting to squeeze everyone who does thing "X" into box "Y", and "if you don't agree with me, you're just proving you are in box Y". Which doesn't work. You are trying to stifle any discussion contrary to your own points by segregating detractors into narrow margins of your own design. It simply doesn't work that way (and is the sort of style of argument yuo see in social-politics these days with certain negative words thrown around without regard, etc).
People who like to netdeck do not just fall into one of your two categories. You missed out (not exclusively): - People who see a deck that looks fun online and want to try it out - People who want to find a good counter to a current oppressive meta deck - People who love meme decks and will try them even with a 20% winrate - People who want to improve their own deck but are looking for ideas of cards they've not considered. - People who just want a quick way to reach legend - People who want a good deck that will help them complete a quest in the quickest time possible - People who simply like to bathe in the salty tears of netdeck haters
The list goeth on....
The point being that there are likely just as many different reasons that some people dislike netdeckers - be it good or bad reasons (selfishness, poor losers, diversity to the meta, more fun for them, etc) - which is why this whole issue is (and always will be) incredibly complex and more than just a set of binary options.
This is a good topic, but not presented in a constructive manner.
Netdecking is stuck with us, and the only way you can undo this is to go back 25 years to the early 90s when very few people had internet access. The issue is that sharing of information is very easy, and people enjoy doing it because of the fame it brings them
Why do people netdeck?
The reason is simply because no matter how much you may want to create your own decks to play with, ultimately you will come to the same conclusions that the best players or those with plenty of time available have done. If you are not interested in competitive results at all, then there is no need to netdeck (in fact it's counter-productive) But if your objective is to win, and see how well you can do, then you are a fool if you do not netdeck.
You have to separate the two concepts
Seeing how well you can do in competitive play
Seeing if you can come up with a strong deck
The first takes skill, concentration, practice etc.
The second takes creativity, imagination etc.
Both require intelligence, no doubt. But you have to have endless time to do both simultaneously, and this is not practical for a lot of players, who have other commitments for their time.
Yea, it's like saying I buy cigarettes and have a lighter, but I don't smoke. I only have them in case someone needs a cigarette or wants to know what cigarettes are. I don't actually smoke. If you visit Hearthpwn you are most likely a netdecker. Go ahead and pretend you're not. We believe you.
The point is that you do some form of netdecking. Whether you are playing a deck that you created, or playing the deck that was posted. You are still looking at decks on this site and seeing what's good. What card combinations people are putting together. And, you're using mechanics that someone posted. Whether or not your deck is the exact same as the deck that was posted, you can't sit here and try and make us believe that you visit Hearthpwn but don't look at decks created and try some of them out.
You are more like a flamer. Yeah, believe what you want, I can't destroy your blinders by telling you how world is really beautiful, You must effort to do that. I don't need anyones advices about a card game since I am playing them for 15 years. I do what I believe. Also yes, I did not look decks, only just once I have checked some guide becuase I wanted to know what netdeck is.
Also you are free to believe what you want. I am not trying to prove anything to anyone and also I don't have to do that.
so; in your opinion speaking about game with a friend of yours about how rogue is broken or how you like new deathknight heroes are also some form of netdecking ? also seeing some cards which your opponent plays and "Wow! that combination looks funny" is netdecking ? If you say so the netdecking which you mentioned and I mentioned are different.
Do you know the game magazines? If you know, they have single games' entire walkthroughs about how you finish the game. The netdecking I mentioned is truly that. You can finish a game by reading a walkthrough and learn everything about game from those magazines but truth is that you would not finish that game. You've just followed the magazine and it finished the game for you. You're right about me that I saw a netdeck. Because I must know everything about what I don't like, mustn't I ? I had to see some because all of the community were speaking about it and I've just wondered what they are and what I saw was pitifulness. There was a guide about how you "drive" your deck. It is just nonsense. If you don't know how you play a deck, just stop playing and go try some other games please.
Also, yep I've created some guides also, because I wanted to show other people that there are different good cards, some other options etc.
Feel free to believe what you want, my conscience is clear.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I designed most of the meta decks and have no problem with people copying it, so you shouldn't aswell.
That's the attitude !
Well played.
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Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
This discussion has been done to death, but I think it boils down to this: No, it's not fun to play against the same handful of decks that crush more fun or creative decks, but if you want to win consistently and compete at higher ranks, you have to either use an existing meta/net deck or close to one. Even if sites like this didn't exist to post decklists, people would still try and copy the decks that beat them most consistently. It's inherent in any competitive card game.
I would like to see some more fun classes like quest hunter etc be actually viable, but if you buff a deck archetype until it's competitive, all that will do is make things shift so a lot of people will netdeck quest hunter and everyone else who doesn't play will come here and whine about them and how little skill it takes to copy a deck.
The lack of skill thing isn't really true by the way. It still takes skill to play a deck correctly, and even if you get an amazing draw like keleseth+shadow step in your opening hand, there are still ways to screw up your advantage and people do it all the time with mind-boggling misplays.
Netdecking is fine because it saves time for you - you don't have to do what someone already did, and that is hours and hours of extensive testing to see what works. I don't have to "invent" a mirracle rogue since someone already played gazillion games and hence crystalised the structure of the deck.
The thing with netdecking is not just taking someone's card selection, but it helps you to understand the core concepts of the deck. When you go through many versions of a deck, you start to realise the fundamental ideas behind card selection, and how they are replaced and why. Extensive netdecking actually helps you to draft decks yourself, and adapt current decklists to your local meta.
If someone is very smart or has much time, he can spend it on deckbrewing, and it is one of the extremely fun features of the game that people do avoid by netdecking, but some of us don't have that much time. I have around 30-60 minutes for Hearthstone a day, and I can't use that time to try to invent the wheel, especially when I know someone already did it before me and I can use his experience.
To me the problem with net decking is that it is boring to face more or less only a handfull of different decks that are the current meta. It would be fun if there was a possibility to choose specific cards that you don't want to face. For example, if I chose I didn't want to face a deck with Raza cause it's boring, then my experience of the game would be better. Of course this is not appliable in ranked but there could perhaps be a new game mode where this is possible.
You would just create a new meta that way. Most people would draft a strong deck, and then exclude specific arhetypes that counter them, making them extremely consistent. And when someone makes something else that counters it, you would then exclude that etc. making the game extremely boring that way.
I actually find it most satisfying when I win in a match where I'm heavily unfavoured, or on par with my oponent. When I take down something that generally doesen't have a chance against me, it doesen't feel important at all.
To me the problem with net decking is that it is boring to face more or less only a handfull of different decks that are the current meta. It would be fun if there was a possibility to choose specific cards that you don't want to face. For example, if I chose I didn't want to face a deck with Raza cause it's boring, then my experience of the game would be better. Of course this is not appliable in ranked but there could perhaps be a new game mode where this is possible.
No, it wouldn't be better. All you got is a shift in your personal meta, i.e. you meet more Jade Druids, you meet more tempo rogues and if you meet a priest, you know it's Silence or BIG. And if you do not want to meet a priest at all, you ban his deathknight. Gets equally boring after an hourt of gameplay. Then you ban Deathknight malfurion on get the Razakus Priests again...
Banning cards or matchups is surely not a solution that will improve the overall game experience longterm.
Do you know the game magazines? If you know, they have single games' entire walkthroughs about how you finish the game. The netdecking I mentioned is truly that. You can finish a game by reading a walkthrough and learn everything about game from those magazines but trtuh is that you would not finish that game. You just followed the magazine and it finished the game. You're right about me that I saw a netdeck. Because I must know everything about what I don't like, mustn't I ? I had to see some because all of the community were speaking about it and I've just wondered what they are and what I saw was pitifulness. There was a guide about how you "drive" your deck. It is just nonsense. If you don't know how you play a deck, just stop playing and go try some other games please.
Also, yep I've created some guides also, because I wanted to show other people that there are different good cards, some other options etc.
You pity those who follow guides in attempts to learn something, yet you make guides yourself in order to share some of your own knowledge. What a double standard!
You are taking the easy way out and this is the humanity's general problem nowadays.
Also netdecking's problem is also all web's problem. If you can't handle something in real life, you get some help, ok but this help does not transforms you. For example, If you can't repeair sink, there is two options; either trying to learn repairing it yourself or call a repairman. What netdecking is trying to be a repairman in this example. If you can't build a deck yourself, Why are you still playing this game ? If you can't catch a single fish, why are you still fishing ?
(...)
Edit: I wanted to add this because it would harsh me if i did not add it. You might be like painting but painting the Mona Lisa does not make you Leonardo Da Vinci and it does not prove that you are a good artist because it is already created by Leonardo, So people feels they are great players while hitting legend with a net-deck but they are only reflections of the person who created that deck. Also they are puppets. They don't have their own decisions. They mimic their role model. Just doing what community does like a sheep in a sheep herd. They don't know what it feels when their own deck is succesful. It is a tragedy.
A real world analogy to net decking is how we go to school to learn instead of just going at it trial and failure style. If you want to reinvent the wheel, go for it. You might learn something most people don't. Critizising everyone who are using the tried and true seems petty though. Not everyone has to be an inventor. Not everyone tries to be Leonardo Da Vinci either, but trying to replicate a masterpiece could give you insights that are not as apparent on the surface. Not to 'be' Leonardo, but to learn!
You are taking the easy way out and this is the humanity's general problem nowadays.
Yeah, blame your problems on everyone else. It's humanity's fault that you don't find your enjoyment.
Here's another one of 'humanitiy's general problems nowadays': Complaining about anything and everything.
Now this is just my point of view. People can have a variety of valid reasons to net deck. If you don't have to, good for you. I don't understand why you have to critizise everyone who does though.
There is only one answer for that because netdecking is killing the variety of decks and forces me to play against always same decks. It brings monotonous moments to the game. Seeing always same crap bores me. You can't stand against this.
(...)
The only reason that i'm disapproving netdecking is monotony, otherwise I'm not interested in the wins which a newbie player achieved with a net-deck. What annoys me is Someone's enjoyement stops my enjoyement but my enjoyment does not bother anyone. So there is some kind of injustice i guess.
Nobody's forcing you to do anything. If you don't want to compete on the ladder, you have the option of playing with whatever unique deck you want against a likeminded friend. You claim you play for fun; then those measly 10 gold per 3 victories or a star on the e-peen meter cannot be that important that you have to stick to ladder.
"What annoys me is Someone's enjoyement stops my enjoyement but my enjoyment does not bother anyone. So there is some kind of injustice i guess." How would it be any more just for your opponents to have to cater to your fun by playing your special snowflakestone?
The only one that can help you with achieving your fun is yourself. Take some responsibility! If you see too many of the same decks, you probably played too much Hearthstone. Try another game, or make some friends and play some friendly matches. Do something constructive about it, instead of going on the forum shouting at the world to change so you don't have to. It is just not going to happen.
I love how other people need to tell me what is fun for me.
By the way, in art school we studied the classics, recreated them to learn from them. Someone mentioned the Mona Lisa. Let's see who was influenced by Di Venci: Rubens and Correggio to name a few. They studied his work and copied from it to find their own style. Di Vinci studied under Verrocchio.
I think the real problem is casual mode is essentially the same as ranked mode. If there was a place where people with more creative (i.e. bad) decks could be isolated and only play against other bad decks, there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints. At the moment though it's just used as practice grounds for people getting used to their ranked mode deck.
Unfortunately there's no way to stop it without a drastic change that would probably anger more people than it makes happy. It's not as simple as just banning a handful of cards from casual decks. I guess they could try and get the point across by making two unranked modes: practice and casual with an explanation of which each is for, but there's no way to force people to join the right one and the practice one would probably largely be ignored in favor of trolling+stomping on noobs in their safe space.
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For example I'm using this site for new expansion reveals and news, Sharing my thoughts about cards, fun creations, building decks with new expansion reveals only to keep them for release (because i can't do that in-game or with an additional tracker), helping and advicing people who is trying to build a deck or craft a card.
So this site doesn't exist only for netdecking.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Netdecking is part of learning the game. When I started the game 2 years ago, I was playing only basic decks based on Trump's Teachings. Then I made some changes that I considered to be improvements at the time. After I got a few more resources, I tried to see what's actually being played and what are the best decks in the game. So I netdecked a midrange hunter list but I was missing mad scientists and dr. Boom and I had to think of replacements myself. At the time I didn't know secrets are bad in the list if I don't run scientists so my list was exactly like the one on the internet just without Boom and scientists. Yet I managed to achieve rank 4 that month and I got to see a different world of people that were way better than me. I mean I was pushing my best there and played for days but I just couldn't go past rank 4. That told me that I had a lot more to improve if I want to be good at the game. I stopped netdecking from sites and started copying players like Thijs that had videos on youtube also working on understanding why he's doing what is doing. Discovered twitch later and other better pros with the time and when un'goro was released, I even got ahead of the meta and thought of adding elementals to the quest rogue when everyone was playing moroes and violet teachers.
The conclusion is that it's natural to copy from others that are better than you in order to learn and become better yourself. Now I know that there are some people who netdeck and have no interest in actually learning the game/ the deck choices and I don't like them as much as I don't like people that claim they play for fun with their homebrew decks. Staying in the same condition and not improving at all is no fun and pathetic.
Driver analogy:
- My goal is to win games and obtain the rewards for doing so.
- Winning games is a combination of a good deck and playing well (and getting lucky sometimes)
- I can't or don't want to design good decks for whatever reason.
- Other people design good decks. If I use one and play well, I'll be more likely to win games.
Artist analogy:
- My goal is to make something memorable and use it to win games, and therefore obtain the rewards for doing so.
- A memorable deck would be one that my opponent hasn't seen before, so I innovate when I can.
- I have the creativity and time to put into designing new decks and I'm not afraid to try new ideas.
- Other people design efficient decks, but efficiency isn't my main focus; my main focus is (themeing or a cool combo or using a card people haven't thought about or...)
I'd suggest there's also an inbetween:
The Commercial Artist analogy:
- My goal is create good decks for myself and other people to enjoy.
- The goal of the game is to win games, so the deck should be able to do that, or my deck won't be popular.
- While I have the time to put into the game to design decks, I'm aware certain strategies are usually always powerful, so I'll start there every time.
- Other people design good/efficient decks; while I don't want to copy them, I can use them as a gauge for what works and/or what people want to play.
your ePeen's size doesn't matter if you're still a terrible player
Well, if you want to play in a competitive way, netdecking is a rational way to do it. I mean, look at highjump or whatever sport.. Everyone uses the same technique, because its optimal.
Netdecking destroyed my MTG group, and now its destroying my hs fun...
For gods sake... See the cards and think... Think for yourself, don't be sheep!
The goal of the game must be enjoyement, not win. What I mentioned starts here. I don't bother anyones enjoyement style as winning, so they should not bother me as playing always same decks. Netdecking brings monotony and it makes me bore while playing against always same decks.
What I am looking for is only deck variety different viable cards but it seems stopping this netdecking situation will not stop that so I guess a big balance which all decks can be viable ingame will satisfy everyone. either netdeckers and non-netdeckers can be happy with a great balance but blizzard earns money from this unbalance stuff which is the real answer the whole netdecking discussions.
If you realised that there is always 1 or 2 viable card for its responsible slot so we have to pay attention to that. That's the earning money strategy of blizzard. So we can't do anything about netdecking as long as there are 2 or 3 viable decks. I can enjoy with playing any decks but most of the community enjoys wins like you so it kills the diversity. Blizzard won't change and according to this community won't change.
So; it is nonsense to discuss netdecking anymore.
Edit: I am inviting you to watch some twitch legend streamer. I've just checked on there yet and what I saw is only razakus priest and midrange rogue. There are no diversity, no enjoyement. It is more like a job instead of being a hobby. It is a game guys, You must acknowledge that firstly !
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
You missed out (not exclusively):
- People who see a deck that looks fun online and want to try it out
- People who want to find a good counter to a current oppressive meta deck
- People who love meme decks and will try them even with a 20% winrate
- People who want to improve their own deck but are looking for ideas of cards they've not considered.
- People who just want a quick way to reach legend
- People who want a good deck that will help them complete a quest in the quickest time possible
- People who simply like to bathe in the salty tears of netdeck haters
This is a good topic, but not presented in a constructive manner.
Netdecking is stuck with us, and the only way you can undo this is to go back 25 years to the early 90s when very few people had internet access. The issue is that sharing of information is very easy, and people enjoy doing it because of the fame it brings them
Why do people netdeck?
The reason is simply because no matter how much you may want to create your own decks to play with, ultimately you will come to the same conclusions that the best players or those with plenty of time available have done. If you are not interested in competitive results at all, then there is no need to netdeck (in fact it's counter-productive) But if your objective is to win, and see how well you can do, then you are a fool if you do not netdeck.
You have to separate the two concepts
The first takes skill, concentration, practice etc.
The second takes creativity, imagination etc.
Both require intelligence, no doubt. But you have to have endless time to do both simultaneously, and this is not practical for a lot of players, who have other commitments for their time.
How interesting
Also you are free to believe what you want. I am not trying to prove anything to anyone and also I don't have to do that.
so; in your opinion speaking about game with a friend of yours about how rogue is broken or how you like new deathknight heroes are also some form of netdecking ? also seeing some cards which your opponent plays and "Wow! that combination looks funny" is netdecking ? If you say so the netdecking which you mentioned and I mentioned are different.
Do you know the game magazines? If you know, they have single games' entire walkthroughs about how you finish the game. The netdecking I mentioned is truly that. You can finish a game by reading a walkthrough and learn everything about game from those magazines but truth is that you would not finish that game. You've just followed the magazine and it finished the game for you. You're right about me that I saw a netdeck. Because I must know everything about what I don't like, mustn't I ? I had to see some because all of the community were speaking about it and I've just wondered what they are and what I saw was pitifulness. There was a guide about how you "drive" your deck. It is just nonsense. If you don't know how you play a deck, just stop playing and go try some other games please.
Also, yep I've created some guides also, because I wanted to show other people that there are different good cards, some other options etc.
Feel free to believe what you want, my conscience is clear.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Well played.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
This discussion has been done to death, but I think it boils down to this: No, it's not fun to play against the same handful of decks that crush more fun or creative decks, but if you want to win consistently and compete at higher ranks, you have to either use an existing meta/net deck or close to one. Even if sites like this didn't exist to post decklists, people would still try and copy the decks that beat them most consistently. It's inherent in any competitive card game.
I would like to see some more fun classes like quest hunter etc be actually viable, but if you buff a deck archetype until it's competitive, all that will do is make things shift so a lot of people will netdeck quest hunter and everyone else who doesn't play will come here and whine about them and how little skill it takes to copy a deck.
The lack of skill thing isn't really true by the way. It still takes skill to play a deck correctly, and even if you get an amazing draw like keleseth+shadow step in your opening hand, there are still ways to screw up your advantage and people do it all the time with mind-boggling misplays.
Netdecking is fine because it saves time for you - you don't have to do what someone already did, and that is hours and hours of extensive testing to see what works. I don't have to "invent" a mirracle rogue since someone already played gazillion games and hence crystalised the structure of the deck.
The thing with netdecking is not just taking someone's card selection, but it helps you to understand the core concepts of the deck. When you go through many versions of a deck, you start to realise the fundamental ideas behind card selection, and how they are replaced and why. Extensive netdecking actually helps you to draft decks yourself, and adapt current decklists to your local meta.
If someone is very smart or has much time, he can spend it on deckbrewing, and it is one of the extremely fun features of the game that people do avoid by netdecking, but some of us don't have that much time. I have around 30-60 minutes for Hearthstone a day, and I can't use that time to try to invent the wheel, especially when I know someone already did it before me and I can use his experience.
To me the problem with net decking is that it is boring to face more or less only a handfull of different decks that are the current meta. It would be fun if there was a possibility to choose specific cards that you don't want to face. For example, if I chose I didn't want to face a deck with Raza cause it's boring, then my experience of the game would be better. Of course this is not appliable in ranked but there could perhaps be a new game mode where this is possible.
You would just create a new meta that way. Most people would draft a strong deck, and then exclude specific arhetypes that counter them, making them extremely consistent. And when someone makes something else that counters it, you would then exclude that etc. making the game extremely boring that way.
I actually find it most satisfying when I win in a match where I'm heavily unfavoured, or on par with my oponent. When I take down something that generally doesen't have a chance against me, it doesen't feel important at all.
I love how other people need to tell me what is fun for me.
By the way, in art school we studied the classics, recreated them to learn from them. Someone mentioned the Mona Lisa. Let's see who was influenced by Di Venci: Rubens and Correggio to name a few. They studied his work and copied from it to find their own style. Di Vinci studied under Verrocchio.
I think the real problem is casual mode is essentially the same as ranked mode. If there was a place where people with more creative (i.e. bad) decks could be isolated and only play against other bad decks, there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints. At the moment though it's just used as practice grounds for people getting used to their ranked mode deck.
Unfortunately there's no way to stop it without a drastic change that would probably anger more people than it makes happy. It's not as simple as just banning a handful of cards from casual decks. I guess they could try and get the point across by making two unranked modes: practice and casual with an explanation of which each is for, but there's no way to force people to join the right one and the practice one would probably largely be ignored in favor of trolling+stomping on noobs in their safe space.