Well, thats why it is called cancer. Easy wins, easy ranks. Nothing speshial.
But the joy, that you feel, when achieving high ranks with non-meta deck (elemental shaman for example) is why not everyone is playing the same deck.
Be different, play normal, non-cancer decks. Be a real player.
Yeah I kinda agree here. I mean, people blame Blizzard for bad balancing etc, and they DO have a horrible track record there. But doesnt a healthly meta game start with the mentality of the playerbase? Its the players who choose the "easy" decks, not Blizzard forcing them to. Although, if I was blizzard, Id review the meta every two weeks, and make adjustments accordingly som people would always be on their toes. Sadly, then the issue with cost will probably crop up, which is its own problem entirely.
1. I would love to see the deck you used. Is it a true homebrew deck, or is it a secret/elemental/Jaina deck that you swapped out a few cards? Some archetypes lend themselves to be better at swapping a few cards off a meta list, and still be successful. Others, not so much.
2. "Not one single time", huh? That's the part I really question. I see a LOT of meta decks, but I also see plenty of "modified" meta decks, and I still see an occasional full on homebrew deck. It may seem like every single deck is just a net deck, but if you legit went from 17 to legend, and not ONCE did you face anything other than outright netdecks .. well, the odds were forever in your favor, for sure.
3. From the sounds of it .. you are pretty damn good at this game of chance we play here. Ever consider quitting you day job? If you indeed went 81% WR at legend (and, I have no real reason to doubt you ... streaks happen), you also somehow managed to outpace the standard RNG factor of the game by quite a bit. The best decks with the best players are typically only going to sustain a WR of around 60%, just based on RNG alone.
Myself personally, I have been trying to climb with homebrew decks this season, and my results have been better than expected, but less than stellar. I have been able to streak my way up to Rank 6 a few times now, and have fell back to Rank 10 several times. Both the decks I have been playing (a Hadronox taunt druid, and a mashup silence / dragon priest) both have the potential to steak together wins, but they also have the potential to get wrecked a lot too.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Out of curiosity, what kind of decks do you recommend for laddering that are actually fun? I don't need a decklist, just some recommended archetypes. Hell, just whatever kind of Mage you played or something. If you could please help a brother out with this slog of a climb, that would be awesome.
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"The quickest way to 'think outside the box' is to realize the truth: the only real box is the one you create by limiting your thoughts."
That's HS for ya. If you want to get rewarded for difficult decisionmaking, HS isn't for you.
This^
I started playing MTG this month at local stores and I am loving it so far and on top of that it actually has a social aspect. You can't play everyday so for these days I have HS.
That's why I barely play this game. It doesn't reward skill or originality. It is extremely frustrating to play this game, cause you can easily lose to a less skilled player who just got lucky or is using a better deck than you. And just how many original and strong decks you can build in this game when 80% of cards in each expansion are utter unplayable crap? The game has no space for originality, cause of it's disbalance and the meta is always a battle of 3/4 decks. And what's the fun of netdecking and getting legend? Like it is some achievement, brag to your "HS friends"?
Don't worry about that, we see too many salt threads on this forum to not know how they look.
As for the topic, well tempo rouge dominates ladder much like raza priest and some other decks, because it's strong, polished and most importantly it's an autopilot deck. That's one of the most problematic issues with Hearthstone in general, if deck is too complicated people simply abandon it.
Getting kind of tired of reading about this, why people think we need a new topic on this daily is beyond me. Yes, people netdeck, some of us enjoy winning on ladder and don't get any particular feeling of accomplishment for crafting our own decks - I play arena when I want that, personally. The idea (as some have said in here) that there's no skill involved or it's all RNG etc. is obviously ridiculous, there's many players that'll never even hit rank 10 no matter how much they netdeck.
So while playing Hearthstone, you want me to make things hard for myself.
LoLWut?
What other self imposed handicaps do you want me to do while playing?
Tie my dominant hand behind my back and use my off hand to control the mouse?
Cover one eye while singing songs of your choice?
Do your homework while I'm at it?
Are you my boss? Am I getting paid to do this? Am I professional player now?
Didn't realize there was so many rules to follow. My God!
/jk
or
not
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* Always play aggro crew * Accept all friend request crew * Don't mind/care if they rant crew * Find it funny that they rant crew * Google translate non english rant crew * Most friends on my friends list are people I've beaten crew Join my crew guys
I reached legend this month with a homebrew mage deck, facing the usual ladder issue. From rank 17 to legend, not once did I encounter a deck that wasnt taken directly from the meta snapshots of Tempostorm/Vicious Syndicate, from an active streamer or from the frontpage of this site. Not one single time. Amazing. We are talking more than a hundred games here, not a single original deck. Didnt even experience variations or innovation, at least not from what was played/drawn.
So, upon reaching legend I decided to try out a netdeck as an experiment. More than half of my opponents were playing tempo rogue or some off-shoot of it, (Zoo lock etc), so that was my pick. Totally copied from this site, i used the rogue saronite list which I had encountered most often.
27 games later, I simply couldnt stomach it anymore. My end result was 22 wins and 5 losses. 4 losses in the mirror, 1 loss to a Raza priest. Thats a 81% winrate right there. Thats on legend rank, without any practice beforehand, other than the knowledge I picked up during my climb. I dont even play rogue that often, so I wouldnt consider myself a great rogue player or anything.
The issue was, it was SO easy. It was practically a joke. I never lost a game where I had Keleseth on my starting hand, or if I was able to curve out. I see a lot of players around the forums defending these kind of decks, making comparisons to more broken decks like the old undertaker hunter etc. Cmon guys. Is this seriously what you want the game to be? I mean, there was practically no analytical thought process required for playing this, other than thinking about what options your opponents had on the curve, each turn. If they stumbled, you were almost guaranteed a win if you had the curve play.
Mind you, this is not a salt thread. Im not upset, Im merely baffled. Do people really find enjoyment in getting handed practically free wins? and if so, why? Theres no point in going for high legend ranks anyway, unless youre a streamer who has to make a living of the game. I mean, if you want to compete you have to dedicate tons of hours to even be qualified for the tourneys, unless youre a god tier player. And then, how can you even call yourself a competitive player when the deck practically plays itself? Isnt competitive play supposed to be difficult, making tough decisions etc? The thing is, its so much more satisfying reaching rank 5 or higher with an odd deck, or your own creation. Its like eating a restaurant steak compared to a Mcdonalds cheeseburger. But I guess some people would pick the cheeseburger hehe.
In case youre wondering why I went for legend, I didnt really set out to. Theres really no point. I just enjoyed my deck and got to rank 2 on a streak, then for the hell of it finished the climb. But why not challenge yourself? Youll learn stuff, youll become better. In the end that is important if you truly want to shoot for the stars. Just think about it. Meanwhile, Ill be over here brewing my next weird concoction.
For context, I have played hearthstone almost daily for about 2 1/2 years and I agree completely that it's a serious issue that everybody on ladder is playing net decks that require no skill. However, hearthstone is an expensive game if you want to make your own creative decks. I consider myself a fairly creative deck builder but being almost entirely a free-2-play player, I am unable to craft more than 1 legendary per expansion besides what I open from packs. It's difficult to make a big investment of dust in a deck of your own creation when you aren't sure how well it will perform competitively and you don't want to waste your hard-earned dust... So I simply have to settle for decks that I know will work rather than waste the little dust I have experimenting on my own creations that might not pan out to be as good as I expected.
I don't so much believe the OP at all either. I know the reason for what you explain. It comes in almost always 2 forms, called Jade Druid and Razakus Priest. You can say these are net decks but whatever. It's just a deck in Hearthstone. Net doesn't mean much to these types of deck. The PK rogue deck is similar. Someone found that combo is pretty easy to pull off so it became popular, same as quest rogue. Overall, your deck is no different, it's probably pretty common give 1 or 2 cards. And you think that you are some kind of homebrew special. But you copied someone. I'll bet you lost plenty of games also, spent a lot of time grinding.
That wasnt my point. Its that some decks are practically autoplay, and people still enjoy playing it? Thats what I find fascinating. Doesnt really make for great gameplay, does it? Or am I missing something here?
Play whatever ramp card you have. Summon larger and larger men. Ultimate balance. "hmm, well played"
Raza priest - "Hmm let me take a look at one of the 7 different answers I have to your minion. Potion of madness.. no no maybe shadow wor.. no that's not right oh well let me see what else I have in the deck -> Shadow Visions"
Or the recently deceased pirate warrior which I'm sure I don't need to remind you about.
Are these fun to play? Not in my opinion. But they win a lot, and people prefer winning over fun.
And if anyone thinks the statement I wrote in bold letters is wrong, do you remember the ladder before the innervate and spreading plague nerfs?
^ Here the perfect answer to this topic.
Why a lot of people play exactly the same things? Why the most popular decks are often just "broken" or "unfair" and so unpleasant to play?
Because in pvp games, a lot of people play with only ONE goal: WIN.
And they don't want win anyhow, they want a EASY win and / or a FAST win. Fuck the "fun" or the "fair games between two good players", just WIN.
Just look at another pvp games: remember in Wow, for example, when a classes was totaly broken and suddenly everybody play it? That's why...
Honestly for me it sucks to spend time to throw together a deck you think might work then get rolled, vs copying someone else ideas and getting rolled. First scenario you are more connected to that deck as it is a result purely from you, therefore when it loses its completely on you and personally it doesn't leave much room to learn what went wrong, vs playing a netdeck and you lose, well maybe you didn't play the deck correctly, perhaps you need more practice, or you just didn't pull your win condition.
Tldr; It sucks less to lose with netdecks then your own homebrew imo
This looks like a Keleseth Rogue salt thread in disguise. This game has always been about high-rolling on the draw/mulligan with auto-pilot decks; anyone who says the strategy of this game has ever been any different is in denial. Name every tier 1 deck ever, and I guarantee it's auto-pilot. The reason is HS has 30 card decks with 2-max copies limitations, so it's either you draw your 1 of few win-cons or you lose, pure and simple. Just because your win-con is more than 1 card (raza and anduin, 2 card combo) doesn't mean it takes any more skill to pull off, just takes more draw and board clears, which is the only reason Priest is able to pull of their win-con.
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Nature is the Day. Man is the Sun. Woman is the Moon. The Stone is the Sky. The Art is the Way.
i mean, some people just like to win, and thats that. so for them, netdecking works, especially when the deck is absurdly strong
I think this comment sums it up best. I personally play with mostly homebrew decks because that is my way of the ninja for enjoying this game. For other people, they don't care about creativity or innovation, they care about win rates. If that's your modus operandi then netdecking the absolutely top ranked deck is the most efficient option. Also I notice, that most people who like to innovate their own homebrew decks prefer Wild mode, so you are more likely to have that experience out of Standard.
I believe OP and this is why (hate on me all you want): No matter what deck you use at ANY rank (25-Legend), you would see camping rank 20s using netdecked decklists. I mean, power to them but that's not my problem. The problem I see after reading OP's post is people DEFENDING tempo rogue and comparing it to newly formed Jade Druid, Zoolock, and worst of all, Undertaker Hunter. The Undertaker Hunter meta is worse than this and that is fact, no questions asked. ALL META DECKS in this meta currently are counterable with the use of imagination and creativity. That's the whole point of Hearthstone. I've said this many times and yet I see netdecked decklists in CASUAL. That's when I get tilted and triggered easily as fuck.
Regarding to netdecked decklists, I said in a forum the other day that some people don't go to this website when they make a Legend capable deck. They might have been the first person to make the deck before anyone. Then, an opponent might have asked for the decklist, the person gave it, and the opponent gave it all out posting it on this website for everyone to use in ranked (no attempted critique on the community or website but this is true). And as OP said, using ANY netdecked decklist takes no skill, and this is true. Some people don't have the time to use imagination in this game for once. Imagination should have been current Hearthstone, but yet, people decide to netdeck their way to legend, which is unfortunate.
Well that’s what happens when we get these 80-20 splits each expansion, as in 20% of the cards are strong and playable and 80% are either memes or just so weak they’re clearly unplayable. There becomes very little deck variation because it’s quite obvious what is good and what isn’t.
"There is no spoon"
Well, here are my thoughts on the whole thing:
1. I would love to see the deck you used. Is it a true homebrew deck, or is it a secret/elemental/Jaina deck that you swapped out a few cards? Some archetypes lend themselves to be better at swapping a few cards off a meta list, and still be successful. Others, not so much.
2. "Not one single time", huh? That's the part I really question. I see a LOT of meta decks, but I also see plenty of "modified" meta decks, and I still see an occasional full on homebrew deck. It may seem like every single deck is just a net deck, but if you legit went from 17 to legend, and not ONCE did you face anything other than outright netdecks .. well, the odds were forever in your favor, for sure.
3. From the sounds of it .. you are pretty damn good at this game of chance we play here. Ever consider quitting you day job? If you indeed went 81% WR at legend (and, I have no real reason to doubt you ... streaks happen), you also somehow managed to outpace the standard RNG factor of the game by quite a bit. The best decks with the best players are typically only going to sustain a WR of around 60%, just based on RNG alone.
Myself personally, I have been trying to climb with homebrew decks this season, and my results have been better than expected, but less than stellar. I have been able to streak my way up to Rank 6 a few times now, and have fell back to Rank 10 several times. Both the decks I have been playing (a Hadronox taunt druid, and a mashup silence / dragon priest) both have the potential to steak together wins, but they also have the potential to get wrecked a lot too.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Out of curiosity, what kind of decks do you recommend for laddering that are actually fun? I don't need a decklist, just some recommended archetypes. Hell, just whatever kind of Mage you played or something. If you could please help a brother out with this slog of a climb, that would be awesome.
"The quickest way to 'think outside the box' is to realize the truth: the only real box is the one you create by limiting your thoughts."
Bruce Garrabrandt
That's why I barely play this game. It doesn't reward skill or originality. It is extremely frustrating to play this game, cause you can easily lose to a less skilled player who just got lucky or is using a better deck than you. And just how many original and strong decks you can build in this game when 80% of cards in each expansion are utter unplayable crap? The game has no space for originality, cause of it's disbalance and the meta is always a battle of 3/4 decks. And what's the fun of netdecking and getting legend? Like it is some achievement, brag to your "HS friends"?
Getting kind of tired of reading about this, why people think we need a new topic on this daily is beyond me. Yes, people netdeck, some of us enjoy winning on ladder and don't get any particular feeling of accomplishment for crafting our own decks - I play arena when I want that, personally. The idea (as some have said in here) that there's no skill involved or it's all RNG etc. is obviously ridiculous, there's many players that'll never even hit rank 10 no matter how much they netdeck.
So while playing Hearthstone, you want me to make things hard for myself.
LoLWut?
What other self imposed handicaps do you want me to do while playing?
Tie my dominant hand behind my back and use my off hand to control the mouse?
Cover one eye while singing songs of your choice?
Do your homework while I'm at it?
Are you my boss? Am I getting paid to do this? Am I professional player now?
Didn't realize there was so many rules to follow. My God!
/jk
or
not
* Always play aggro crew
* Accept all friend request crew
* Don't mind/care if they rant crew
* Find it funny that they rant crew
* Google translate non english rant crew
* Most friends on my friends list are people I've beaten crew
Join my crew guys
I don't so much believe the OP at all either. I know the reason for what you explain. It comes in almost always 2 forms, called Jade Druid and Razakus Priest. You can say these are net decks but whatever. It's just a deck in Hearthstone. Net doesn't mean much to these types of deck. The PK rogue deck is similar. Someone found that combo is pretty easy to pull off so it became popular, same as quest rogue. Overall, your deck is no different, it's probably pretty common give 1 or 2 cards. And you think that you are some kind of homebrew special. But you copied someone. I'll bet you lost plenty of games also, spent a lot of time grinding.
Honestly for me it sucks to spend time to throw together a deck you think might work then get rolled, vs copying someone else ideas and getting rolled. First scenario you are more connected to that deck as it is a result purely from you, therefore when it loses its completely on you and personally it doesn't leave much room to learn what went wrong, vs playing a netdeck and you lose, well maybe you didn't play the deck correctly, perhaps you need more practice, or you just didn't pull your win condition.
Tldr; It sucks less to lose with netdecks then your own homebrew imo
OP probably made a "home-brew" deck switching out 1-2 cards in a classic burn or controlmage - wow youre so special bro :)
s/s or it didn't happen
This looks like a Keleseth Rogue salt thread in disguise. This game has always been about high-rolling on the draw/mulligan with auto-pilot decks; anyone who says the strategy of this game has ever been any different is in denial. Name every tier 1 deck ever, and I guarantee it's auto-pilot. The reason is HS has 30 card decks with 2-max copies limitations, so it's either you draw your 1 of few win-cons or you lose, pure and simple. Just because your win-con is more than 1 card (raza and anduin, 2 card combo) doesn't mean it takes any more skill to pull off, just takes more draw and board clears, which is the only reason Priest is able to pull of their win-con.
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
I believe OP and this is why (hate on me all you want): No matter what deck you use at ANY rank (25-Legend), you would see camping rank 20s using netdecked decklists. I mean, power to them but that's not my problem. The problem I see after reading OP's post is people DEFENDING tempo rogue and comparing it to newly formed Jade Druid, Zoolock, and worst of all, Undertaker Hunter. The Undertaker Hunter meta is worse than this and that is fact, no questions asked. ALL META DECKS in this meta currently are counterable with the use of imagination and creativity. That's the whole point of Hearthstone. I've said this many times and yet I see netdecked decklists in CASUAL. That's when I get tilted and triggered easily as fuck.
Regarding to netdecked decklists, I said in a forum the other day that some people don't go to this website when they make a Legend capable deck. They might have been the first person to make the deck before anyone. Then, an opponent might have asked for the decklist, the person gave it, and the opponent gave it all out posting it on this website for everyone to use in ranked (no attempted critique on the community or website but this is true). And as OP said, using ANY netdecked decklist takes no skill, and this is true. Some people don't have the time to use imagination in this game for once. Imagination should have been current Hearthstone, but yet, people decide to netdeck their way to legend, which is unfortunate.
Well that’s what happens when we get these 80-20 splits each expansion, as in 20% of the cards are strong and playable and 80% are either memes or just so weak they’re clearly unplayable. There becomes very little deck variation because it’s quite obvious what is good and what isn’t.
Despite that netdecks are autoplay, easy and brainless as you put but does it not puzzle you that only 2% of the player base can only reach rank 5.
How do you explain that?