Seriously though, a lot of people go face because we had decks that rewarded you for brainless play and it worked - Midrange and Agro Shamans, Pirate Warriors etc., to some extent Tempo Mage, with which you could spell gun your opponent around 7-8 turn. Now those decks went away and a lot of people seem to be really confused :P
Going slightly offtopic, I remember going to much face myself when I started, then switched to (what I thought back then) a controllish approach that consisted of trading everything away. Miracle Rogue straightened me up. I'm playing Tempo Rogue now and I think I've found the way to go - sometimes I wouldn't go as much face as I should.
Thing is, you need a broader game knowledge to play efficiently. For example, if I'm playing vs Pirate Warrior, Aggro Druid, Token Shaman or Midrange Hunter, I'll trade away everything asap, because those decks rely on strong board presence and tend to run out of steam (with Token Shaman actually punishing your for having a big board). On the other hand - Jade Druid and Highlander Priest need a SMOrcfest.
Imho new players treat HS as an arcade game and just curve shit out and go for it. It might be borind for newbies to think about their turns longer than 15 seconds ;)
This is a reasonable question. When I first got in to the game years ago new players were losing games and missing lethal because of too much trading and now it seems to be the opposite. Prehaps bad youtube guides
In the past strength of minions was measured more by the stats then the effect they have on them there for trading was moreappealing to new players . Nowadays you have so much value cards out there that new players do not haveaccess to there for they are forced to push more face damage hoping they finish you off before you overwhelm them with value . It will only get worse with time since we get more and more valuewith each expansion . New players simply do not have adifferent way to win or play .
against your "fun decks" (which I assume are control) a new player with small collection, with a midrange/aggro deck ,SHOULD rush you down. Why? well, they don't stand a chance if the game goes for long as you will outvalue them easily.
if the card quality is low you would want to finish the game ASAP, sadly nowadays the cheapest viable deck contains 2 legendaries at minimum.
I assume you also have a golden hero or an old card back it really affects new players.. I know since I was 3 years ago and that's how I played back then.
also there's the factor that the game goal is to reduce you to 0 life and not anything else someone starting the game will first try to do that before they fail enough to learn how to get your life to 0 more efficiently.
hunter doesnt require a single legendary, zoo can get by without any, though of course keleseth is very useful.
Midrange hunter is tier 3ish ATM it's not very strong against the top dogs
And zoo uses 3 legendaries currently (patches,keleseth and guldan)
sure you can play without them but you will play a sub par list.
and i get to rank 5 every season with hunter. its fast games, can beat priest most of the time, strong vs jade druid unless they have an amazing start. its can beat token shaman and zoolock in maybe 60% of matches, while is struggles vs tempo rogue, but an early golakka can turn the tide in that game. you can use deathknight for AoE and out tempo them in the later stages of the game by playing potentially 2 cards every turn compared to their 1.
well it would just take you more time and some matchups are in the 30% wr but it's viable to play hunter of course.
Like people here said already - new players will make mistakes. Sadly, after loosing most of the time, they might not try to learn but will drop the game instead. Recently I tried to play on different region (new player exp) and It is very hard to stand against any opponent if you own very limited card collection, even as experienced player. There is some serious decision making in terms of trading there and sometimes going face and hoping for no answer is best strategy. New player experience is terrible since they are immedietly thrown in a pit with much more experienced players with far better decks.
A friend of mine recently started HS and he's still playing, but I see him online less and less often. It was hard a year ago, when I jumped in, but all you needed was getting some packs and adventures to keep you going. Now, with 5245245 expansions and deck costs of 9k+ dust, it's just ridiculous. I remember that the most expensive deck I've seen back then was Control Warr (C'Thun and regular) that were around 9-13k and those were called extremally greedy. Miracle Rogue was 7-8k, and after MSoG it suddenly went up to around 10k.
Plus there were Zoolocks, Discardlocks, cheap Tempo Mages and Midrange/Secret Hunters that were still rewarding to ladder with. Atm it's pretty impossible to play a sensible deck without a legendary card and it's going to get worse. Don't know if I'd keep playing if I had to grind a collection now...
A friend of mine recently started HS and he's still playing, but I see him online less and less often. It was hard a year ago, when I jumped in, but all you needed was getting some packs and adventures to keep you going. Now, with 5245245 expansions and deck costs of 9k+ dust, it's just ridiculous.
To be fair, you shouldn't be able to pick up a game like Hearthstone and have a full top tier deck in like a week of playing. It's already way too easy to get legenedaries and uber-cards in the game as it is. And there's only ever a few expansions to worry about at any one time in Standard, so it's hardly the biggest problem to get the cards.
I remember the old halcion days of collecting actual physical cards for a game, leaving for a year then coming back and essentially having to start a whole new collection each time. That was so much more fun - Hearthstone just takes all the challenge away unfortunately. Good times... :-)
"I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames, their denizens fading without as much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart devoid of emotion... of empathy. I. Have. Felt. Nothing. A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?"
I think this is a brilliant question. I remember as a new player just thinking on the objective being "must win." Terms like tempo, value, trades and so on didn't really hit my mind intrinsically. Nor did I see that your own life total could be seen as a resource too.
I wonder if the tutorial that new players need to spin-up needs to be tweaked.
As a new player (and HS was my first virtual card game) I did worse things. E.g., I would play Mirror Image on Turn 1 because playing something is better than not playing anything, right?
Also, another reason why new players make such mistakes is the disastrous AI of the Innkeeper. You learn nothing about the strategy in the tutorial phase or later, battling the AI to unlock the basic cards. No wonder you then Holy Smite face if that's what the mighty Bli$$ard developers suggested to you.
As a new player (and HS was my first virtual card game) I did worse things. E.g., I would play Mirror Image on Turn 1 because playing something is better than not playing anything, right?
Huh? Turn 1 Mirror Image is a solid play! Especially when prefaced by a Mana Wyrm + The Coin....
As a new player (and HS was my first virtual card game) I did worse things. E.g., I would play Mirror Image on Turn 1 because playing something is better than not playing anything, right?
Also, another reason why new players make such mistakes is the disastrous AI of the Innkeeper. You learn nothing about the strategy in the tutorial phase or later, battling the AI to unlock the basic cards. No wonder you then Holy Smite face if that's what the mighty Bli$$ard developers suggested to you.
It could be correct, depending on your hand and opponent class.
As for the OP, you're ignoring the schooling effect. If most new players go face too much, then going face could suddenly become correct (the easiest example would be when you have most damage dealing minions) for one of them.
A typical example of that was when playing freeze mage. Proven bad players might refuse refuse to clear your scientists / hoarders, which would often (but not always) mean that going face was the correct play (for the freeze mage), but versus a better opponent it presumably means he has a better answer in hand. So what's correct at rank 4 might not necessarily be correct at rank 17.
Also damage to face is a directly winning factor, all other win-conditions have to translate themselves into damage. No, this doesn't mean that it is necessarily correct to go face, but it might be the lesser mistake you'd make.
"I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames, their denizens fading without as much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart devoid of emotion... of empathy. I. Have. Felt. Nothing. A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?"
WAIT! Minons don't have to go face? :O
Seriously though, a lot of people go face because we had decks that rewarded you for brainless play and it worked - Midrange and Agro Shamans, Pirate Warriors etc., to some extent Tempo Mage, with which you could spell gun your opponent around 7-8 turn. Now those decks went away and a lot of people seem to be really confused :P
Going slightly offtopic, I remember going to much face myself when I started, then switched to (what I thought back then) a controllish approach that consisted of trading everything away. Miracle Rogue straightened me up. I'm playing Tempo Rogue now and I think I've found the way to go - sometimes I wouldn't go as much face as I should.
Thing is, you need a broader game knowledge to play efficiently. For example, if I'm playing vs Pirate Warrior, Aggro Druid, Token Shaman or Midrange Hunter, I'll trade away everything asap, because those decks rely on strong board presence and tend to run out of steam (with Token Shaman actually punishing your for having a big board). On the other hand - Jade Druid and Highlander Priest need a SMOrcfest.
Imho new players treat HS as an arcade game and just curve shit out and go for it. It might be borind for newbies to think about their turns longer than 15 seconds ;)
I've no clue what I'm doing...
Because going face gets rewarded too often in HS
Fuck cubelock
I've no clue what I'm doing...
It's already way too easy to get legenedaries and uber-cards in the game as it is.
And there's only ever a few expansions to worry about at any one time in Standard, so it's hardly the biggest problem to get the cards.
Good times... :-)
Just because you're used to bullshit doesn't mean it's okay
I think this is a brilliant question. I remember as a new player just thinking on the objective being "must win." Terms like tempo, value, trades and so on didn't really hit my mind intrinsically. Nor did I see that your own life total could be seen as a resource too.
I wonder if the tutorial that new players need to spin-up needs to be tweaked.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
As a new player (and HS was my first virtual card game) I did worse things. E.g., I would play Mirror Image on Turn 1 because playing something is better than not playing anything, right?
Also, another reason why new players make such mistakes is the disastrous AI of the Innkeeper. You learn nothing about the strategy in the tutorial phase or later, battling the AI to unlock the basic cards. No wonder you then Holy Smite face if that's what the mighty Bli$$ard developers suggested to you.
Auto squelch. That's all I'm asking for.
Turn 1 Mirror Image is a solid play!
Especially when prefaced by a Mana Wyrm + The Coin....
Who cares? Just let them SMOrc.
I find they either always value trade or go face myself
Because its intuitive. You win when you reduce your opponent's hp to zero. I was t1 coin-heropowering face as a mage :D
cause face is the place
Dead but dreaming