1. It doesn't need a nerf. Razakus has more than enough counters in the current meta. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
2. All nerfs proposed in this thread will make it unplayable. That's some Blizzard level nerfing, apply for a job with Team 5 while you can.
3. No, I don't even play Razakus.
Raza priest has only two half baked counters ... agrro, and bad luck. And with enough good luck, even aggro doesn't stand a chance. It is one of the most busted decks in recent history. It gives one of the best control decks out there a near guaranteed win condition, that can be drawn by turn 8.
What are you at? Only "aggro" deck which is good against Razakus is teched Tempo Rogue and maybe Pirate Warrior, but PW is like worse Rogue atm. But aggros aren't it's biggest counters. It's worst M/Us are Big Druid, Dragon Priest, Exodia Mage (ofc assuming that both sides are playing M/U correctly) etc.
So please, stop talking things out of your ass if you don't know what you're talking about.
To the nerf 'suggestion': It's just straight away killing Raza, he dies 80% just after being played rn, when he's only 5/5, with this nerf it would happen even more often since people would always just use their removal. You are just dreaming in the perfect world where Raza survives on the board and opponent doesn't do anything, but it wouldn't happen more often that like 1 in 15 games, if not even less. So even if you would make this nerf and delete Highlander effect (since without deleting it the nerf would be just Warsong Commander level) i think it would still be too bad to played.
But there is nothing wrong with Raza or Anduin DK. Why fix a non-issue?
Remember all the Highlander Priests on the ladder before Knights of the Frozen Throne? Me neither.
Remember all the Highlander Priests on the ladder after Knights of the Frozen Throne but before Innervate and Spreading Plague nerf? Me neither.
There will always be a best card or best deck. If we nerf this, then suddenly Murloc Shaman would overrun (or whatever) and you would start writing stuff like “I have found the perfect solution. Nerf Unite the Murlocs so it has to summon 12 Murlocs before compleation”
Have patience, let the meta stay healthy as never before and wait until early 2018 where Raza leaves Standard.
The only nerf I can possibly see is if Raza's cost reduction only affect the current HP. If you change it, it won't cost 0. That way you won't have Razakus playing it on curve on T5 followed by SRA on T8.
That said, I don't think it really needs a nerf now.
1. It doesn't need a nerf. Razakus has more than enough counters in the current meta. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
2. All nerfs proposed in this thread will make it unplayable. That's some Blizzard level nerfing, apply for a job with Team 5 while you can.
3. No, I don't even play Razakus.
Raza priest has only two half baked counters ... agrro, and bad luck. And with enough good luck, even aggro doesn't stand a chance. It is one of the most busted decks in recent history. It gives one of the best control decks out there a near guaranteed win condition, that can be drawn by turn 8.
I have said the exact same thing as the OP before. Either Raza effect should only be active if raza is on the board, or Mindbreaker should eliminate hero powers permanently. This would put Mindbreaker in line with Skulking Geist.
And everyone thinks every nerf will make every deck "unplayable" ... which is exactly why we are constantly playing a busted game, because Team 5 is dammed if they do, and dammed if they don't. Raza priest is far from being the only deck that needs toned down, but chances are, we will be stuck with what we got until at least a month or more into K&C. In your own words, Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. Raza would still be playable ... the deck has more than enough control to keep Raza alive for a turn or two ... and it still has Velen / Mindblast combo. What it couldn't do it sit there like a bump on a log for 8 or 10 turns picking off minions, and then just vomit out every spell they have for 2-4 damage a pop.
I stopped reading after the “two half-baked counters” part. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, so I’d rather not waste time and effort on the rest of the post.
But just to put my money where my mouth is - go and read the latest VS report.
1. It doesn't need a nerf. Razakus has more than enough counters in the current meta. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
2. All nerfs proposed in this thread will make it unplayable. That's some Blizzard level nerfing, apply for a job with Team 5 while you can.
3. No, I don't even play Razakus.
Raza priest has only two half baked counters ... agrro, and bad luck. And with enough good luck, even aggro doesn't stand a chance. It is one of the most busted decks in recent history. It gives one of the best control decks out there a near guaranteed win condition, that can be drawn by turn 8.
What are you at? Only "aggro" deck which is good against Razakus is teched Tempo Rogue and maybe Pirate Warrior, but PW is like worse Rogue atm. But aggros aren't it's biggest counters. It's worst M/Us are Big Druid, Dragon Priest, Exodia Mage (ofc assuming that both sides are playing M/U correctly) etc.
So please, stop talking things out of your ass if you don't know what you're talking about.
To the nerf 'suggestion': It's just straight away killing Raza, he dies 80% just after being played rn, when he's only 5/5, with this nerf it would happen even more often since people would always just use their removal. You are just dreaming in the perfect world where Raza survives on the board and opponent doesn't do anything, but it wouldn't happen more often that like 1 in 15 games, if not even less. So even if you would make this nerf and delete Highlander effect (since without deleting it the nerf would be just Warsong Commander level) i think it would still be too bad to played.
Please stop vomiting VS stats as if they actually represent how the game plays out in actuality.
This season, I have won 42 of 54 matchups against priest, with (estimated) 80%+ of those being Raza. With the very small exception of a handful of games I have played with a demon control warlock, every game has been played with some form of aggro(ish) deck. I put the (ish) there, because the line between what defines aggro and tempo is getting pretty blurry, especially against Raza priest, where with only a couple exceptions, you are just going to go face whenever possible.
As for Raza just dying ... like I said ... err.. like you said ... adapt. Drop something else in the deck that forces removal. Or just use whats already there ... Velen. I kinda find it pretty thick of you to just tell everyone else to adapt to busted decks, but be diametrically opposed to any changes being made to those busted decks. But, just like everyone went berserk because Fiery War Axe got pushed up ONE FREAKING MANA, and instantly proclaimed Pirate Warrior dead, every possible nerf to Raza priest is met the same way. Hell, I suggested just lower his HP down to 1 damage, and that will supposedly make the deck unplayable as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
1. It doesn't need a nerf. Razakus has more than enough counters in the current meta. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
2. All nerfs proposed in this thread will make it unplayable. That's some Blizzard level nerfing, apply for a job with Team 5 while you can.
3. No, I don't even play Razakus.
Raza priest has only two half baked counters ... agrro, and bad luck. And with enough good luck, even aggro doesn't stand a chance. It is one of the most busted decks in recent history. It gives one of the best control decks out there a near guaranteed win condition, that can be drawn by turn 8.
What are you at? Only "aggro" deck which is good against Razakus is teched Tempo Rogue and maybe Pirate Warrior, but PW is like worse Rogue atm. But aggros aren't it's biggest counters. It's worst M/Us are Big Druid, Dragon Priest, Exodia Mage (ofc assuming that both sides are playing M/U correctly) etc.
So please, stop talking things out of your ass if you don't know what you're talking about.
To the nerf 'suggestion': It's just straight away killing Raza, he dies 80% just after being played rn, when he's only 5/5, with this nerf it would happen even more often since people would always just use their removal. You are just dreaming in the perfect world where Raza survives on the board and opponent doesn't do anything, but it wouldn't happen more often that like 1 in 15 games, if not even less. So even if you would make this nerf and delete Highlander effect (since without deleting it the nerf would be just Warsong Commander level) i think it would still be too bad to played.
Please stop vomiting VS stats as if they actually represent how the game plays out in actuality.
This season, I have won 42 of 54 matchups against priest, with (estimated) 80%+ of those being Raza. With the very small exception of a handful of games I have played with a demon control warlock, every game has been played with some form of aggro(ish) deck. I put the (ish) there, because the line between what defines aggro and tempo is getting pretty blurry, especially against Raza priest, where with only a couple exceptions, you are just going to go face whenever possible.
As for Raza just dying ... like I said ... err.. like you said ... adapt. Drop something else in the deck that forces removal. Or just use whats already there ... Velen. I kinda find it pretty thick of you to just tell everyone else to adapt to busted decks, but be diametrically opposed to any changes being made to those busted decks. But, just like everyone went berserk because Fiery War Axe got pushed up ONE FREAKING MANA, and instantly proclaimed Pirate Warrior dead, every possible nerf to Raza priest is met the same way. Hell, I suggested just lower his HP down to 1 damage, and that will supposedly make the deck unplayable as well.
If you don’t understand how huge of a nerf that one freaking mana was for FWA, you’re even more clueless than I thought. And yeah, lets compare you 50 games sample with 75k from VS.
I mean yea razakus is extremely overtuned deck if he draws perfectly. But then again which deck isn't?
But there is also the scenario when Raza or DK is in bottom 5-10 cards. Deck suddenly becomes shitty excuse of a deck. Even the odds of having either raza or dk card in bottom 10 is likely.
People only remember when priest plays 4,5,8 cards and lose but they don't remember when priest actually does not draw well.
80% of times raza or anduin (or both) are on the last 5 cards of the deck.
I personally find mindbreaker to be very effective agtainst both warlock and priest dk. with warlock you can place it on the board in the late game and with anduin after his 2 mana removals has been already used since he just has one copy of it. (if he doesnt discover it 2 times ofc). I would do this to his sp to nerf it a bit: increase the cost of 1 everytime he uses it.
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Best quotes: "Casual is perfectly fine" "warlock is not overpowered" "Playing odd paladin just to test it"
1. It doesn't need a nerf. Razakus has more than enough counters in the current meta. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
2. All nerfs proposed in this thread will make it unplayable. That's some Blizzard level nerfing, apply for a job with Team 5 while you can.
3. No, I don't even play Razakus.
Raza priest has only two half baked counters ... agrro, and bad luck. And with enough good luck, even aggro doesn't stand a chance. It is one of the most busted decks in recent history. It gives one of the best control decks out there a near guaranteed win condition, that can be drawn by turn 8.
What are you at? Only "aggro" deck which is good against Razakus is teched Tempo Rogue and maybe Pirate Warrior, but PW is like worse Rogue atm. But aggros aren't it's biggest counters. It's worst M/Us are Big Druid, Dragon Priest, Exodia Mage (ofc assuming that both sides are playing M/U correctly) etc.
So please, stop talking things out of your ass if you don't know what you're talking about.
To the nerf 'suggestion': It's just straight away killing Raza, he dies 80% just after being played rn, when he's only 5/5, with this nerf it would happen even more often since people would always just use their removal. You are just dreaming in the perfect world where Raza survives on the board and opponent doesn't do anything, but it wouldn't happen more often that like 1 in 15 games, if not even less. So even if you would make this nerf and delete Highlander effect (since without deleting it the nerf would be just Warsong Commander level) i think it would still be too bad to played.
Please stop vomiting VS stats as if they actually represent how the game plays out in actuality.
This season, I have won 42 of 54 matchups against priest, with (estimated) 80%+ of those being Raza. With the very small exception of a handful of games I have played with a demon control warlock, every game has been played with some form of aggro(ish) deck. I put the (ish) there, because the line between what defines aggro and tempo is getting pretty blurry, especially against Raza priest, where with only a couple exceptions, you are just going to go face whenever possible.
As for Raza just dying ... like I said ... err.. like you said ... adapt. Drop something else in the deck that forces removal. Or just use whats already there ... Velen. I kinda find it pretty thick of you to just tell everyone else to adapt to busted decks, but be diametrically opposed to any changes being made to those busted decks. But, just like everyone went berserk because Fiery War Axe got pushed up ONE FREAKING MANA, and instantly proclaimed Pirate Warrior dead, every possible nerf to Raza priest is met the same way. Hell, I suggested just lower his HP down to 1 damage, and that will supposedly make the deck unplayable as well.
1. Stop mixing my messages with the ones from Essavias
2. I was actually taking this MUs from my mid-higherish legend games (ussualy something around 500-200) and the ones i saw on many streams/tournaments, not from VS, but seems like they have similar PoV.
3. Just no comment if you really think that 50 games on the rank noone knows about means something, especially with the fact that lower rank Priests are terrible at the deck.
4. Ya man, it's totally like the best decks will use of the removals on the 7 mana 7/7 and they won't be able to do anything with 5 mana 5/5. Also Velen doesn't seem as good in deck if you wouldn't be able to use him with free HP.
5. ??? FWA nerf pushed out PW from being one of the 2 strongest aggro (alongside Druid) to just worse version of Rogue. Also made already kinda bad Controlish Warriors into terrible archetype (atleast on ladder).
And meta is actually one of the most balanced ones since beta imo, i don't think it needs nerfs
Raza Priest is tier 1. It's not an oppressive/broken deck like Jade Druid was before nerfing. It's powerful, yes, but is it unbeatable? No. Just because a class is strong, does not mean it needs to get nerfed into oblivion. If you are consistently losing to it, then you should change around what you are playing and think about some of the tech choices that you should use. This meta, since the Jade Druid nerf has been incredibly balanced and varied, anything is viable. Even hunter, which sucks is perfectly okay to play although the DK is very over rated. Shadow Reaper Anduin will be one of the worst DKs when Raza rotates out as things stand, so just allow priest to have its first light in tier 1 so just let it be, it deserves it. Oh, and it's a very difficult deck to pilot properly and severely punishes you for playing poorly which a lot of players do, so much so that the deck win rate overall is tier 3 status, obviously anyone can win if you draw the nuts but that very rarely happens despite the generalisations, so if you are consistently losing against the deck then you are doing something seriously wrong, not Blizzard. Just remember, more often than not with decks like this, especially highlander decks then you will rarely have everything you need, it makes it way more difficult to curve out properly and answer problems effectively while still cycling through your deck.
the main reason razakus priest will never be nerfed is that it requires 4 legendaries that aren't useable in any other deck(raza, kazakus, anduin, velen) and 2-3 supporting ones that most people have.
now if they are gonna nerf it low budgets/f2p who are building toward the deck will feel cheated.
it's all the fault of the dust/reward system that decks aren't tackled correctly.
next expansion razakus priest isgonna be tier SS with such abig cardpool and potentially strong cardsin neutral or priest pool.
In standard, Razakus is ok. Powerful, abusable, but bound to many variables.
In wild, you have Reno, which turns Aggro matchups in a coin toss (over drawing Reno or not by turn 6). Crucially, no Aggro deck can push before turn 6 (unless uncontested ofc), and any turn beyond that skyrockets the Highlander chances to win against its worst matchup.
But then again, that is no Razakus problem, just Reno, which is an extreme card for its mana cost.
Razakus is a no-brainer deck and has no real counters in standart. If you try to tech against it , you will lose to all other decks out there.
There's loads of counters to Razakus. Jade Druid Face Hunter Frost Lich Mage Pirate Warrior Tempo Rogue
The list goes on... yuo just need to have a strategy on how to beat him and not panic. It won't always work, but that's the nature of Hearthstone... no deck is infallible.
And what you described is exactly how counter-decks are SUPPOSED to work. They aren't supposed to counter everything! Otherwise they would be OP and pointless.
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It's a tier three deck that rotates out of standard in a couple months. I propose nothing be done. Let it go.
This would make him unusable. Highlander priest doesn't need a nerf
But there is nothing wrong with Raza or Anduin DK. Why fix a non-issue?
Remember all the Highlander Priests on the ladder before Knights of the Frozen Throne? Me neither.
Remember all the Highlander Priests on the ladder after Knights of the Frozen Throne but before Innervate and Spreading Plague nerf? Me neither.
There will always be a best card or best deck. If we nerf this, then suddenly Murloc Shaman would overrun (or whatever) and you would start writing stuff like “I have found the perfect solution. Nerf Unite the Murlocs so it has to summon 12 Murlocs before compleation”
Have patience, let the meta stay healthy as never before and wait until early 2018 where Raza leaves Standard.
@OP - That's a terrible way to nerf Raza. Is that really your best idea? SAD!
The only nerf I can possibly see is if Raza's cost reduction only affect the current HP. If you change it, it won't cost 0. That way you won't have Razakus playing it on curve on T5 followed by SRA on T8.
That said, I don't think it really needs a nerf now.
This season, I have won 42 of 54 matchups against priest, with (estimated) 80%+ of those being Raza. With the very small exception of a handful of games I have played with a demon control warlock, every game has been played with some form of aggro(ish) deck. I put the (ish) there, because the line between what defines aggro and tempo is getting pretty blurry, especially against Raza priest, where with only a couple exceptions, you are just going to go face whenever possible.
As for Raza just dying ... like I said ... err.. like you said ... adapt. Drop something else in the deck that forces removal. Or just use whats already there ... Velen. I kinda find it pretty thick of you to just tell everyone else to adapt to busted decks, but be diametrically opposed to any changes being made to those busted decks. But, just like everyone went berserk because Fiery War Axe got pushed up ONE FREAKING MANA, and instantly proclaimed Pirate Warrior dead, every possible nerf to Raza priest is met the same way. Hell, I suggested just lower his HP down to 1 damage, and that will supposedly make the deck unplayable as well.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Dr7 its back!
I personally find mindbreaker to be very effective agtainst both warlock and priest dk. with warlock you can place it on the board in the late game and with anduin after his 2 mana removals has been already used since he just has one copy of it. (if he doesnt discover it 2 times ofc).
I would do this to his sp to nerf it a bit: increase the cost of 1 everytime he uses it.
Best quotes:
"Casual is perfectly fine"
"warlock is not overpowered"
"Playing odd paladin just to test it"
Lol
1. Stop mixing my messages with the ones from Essavias
2. I was actually taking this MUs from my mid-higherish legend games (ussualy something around 500-200) and the ones i saw on many streams/tournaments, not from VS, but seems like they have similar PoV.
3. Just no comment if you really think that 50 games on the rank noone knows about means something, especially with the fact that lower rank Priests are terrible at the deck.
4. Ya man, it's totally like the best decks will use of the removals on the 7 mana 7/7 and they won't be able to do anything with 5 mana 5/5. Also Velen doesn't seem as good in deck if you wouldn't be able to use him with free HP.
5. ??? FWA nerf pushed out PW from being one of the 2 strongest aggro (alongside Druid) to just worse version of Rogue. Also made already kinda bad Controlish Warriors into terrible archetype (atleast on ladder).
And meta is actually one of the most balanced ones since beta imo, i don't think it needs nerfs
Raza Priest is tier 1. It's not an oppressive/broken deck like Jade Druid was before nerfing. It's powerful, yes, but is it unbeatable? No. Just because a class is strong, does not mean it needs to get nerfed into oblivion. If you are consistently losing to it, then you should change around what you are playing and think about some of the tech choices that you should use. This meta, since the Jade Druid nerf has been incredibly balanced and varied, anything is viable. Even hunter, which sucks is perfectly okay to play although the DK is very over rated. Shadow Reaper Anduin will be one of the worst DKs when Raza rotates out as things stand, so just allow priest to have its first light in tier 1 so just let it be, it deserves it. Oh, and it's a very difficult deck to pilot properly and severely punishes you for playing poorly which a lot of players do, so much so that the deck win rate overall is tier 3 status, obviously anyone can win if you draw the nuts but that very rarely happens despite the generalisations, so if you are consistently losing against the deck then you are doing something seriously wrong, not Blizzard. Just remember, more often than not with decks like this, especially highlander decks then you will rarely have everything you need, it makes it way more difficult to curve out properly and answer problems effectively while still cycling through your deck.
A good nerf would be changing the hero power resets the cost. This means you have to play shadowreaper beforehand.
And sure in standard the deck is tier 3 and shit but its everywhere in wild and dominates the format
That's Incredible!
the main reason razakus priest will never be nerfed is that it requires 4 legendaries that aren't useable in any other deck(raza, kazakus, anduin, velen) and 2-3 supporting ones that most people have.
now if they are gonna nerf it low budgets/f2p who are building toward the deck will feel cheated.
it's all the fault of the dust/reward system that decks aren't tackled correctly.
next expansion razakus priest isgonna be tier SS with such abig cardpool and potentially strong cardsin neutral or priest pool.
Razakus is a no-brainer deck and has no real counters in standart. If you try to tech against it , you will lose to all other decks out there.
In standard, Razakus is ok. Powerful, abusable, but bound to many variables.
In wild, you have Reno, which turns Aggro matchups in a coin toss (over drawing Reno or not by turn 6). Crucially, no Aggro deck can push before turn 6 (unless uncontested ofc), and any turn beyond that skyrockets the Highlander chances to win against its worst matchup.
But then again, that is no Razakus problem, just Reno, which is an extreme card for its mana cost.
Wow...
Jade Druid
Face Hunter
Frost Lich Mage
Pirate Warrior
Tempo Rogue