Your answer to that question must be the opposite if your answer to this question:
Do you still play the game?
So your options are:
A: Yes the game has a problem. No I do not still play the game.
B: No the game does not have a problem. Yes I still play the game.
The world isn't black and white only...
There can be problems without making sth totally unusable. When one back light of a car doesn't work there is a problem with the car, yet ppl will still drive with it. When you habe headache, you habe a problem, yet you are still living.
Your answer to that question must be the opposite if your answer to this question:
Do you still play the game?
So your options are:
A: Yes the game has a problem. No I do not still play the game.
B: No the game does not have a problem. Yes I still play the game.
The very fact that the game has its problems doesn't mean one should quit. You name them so the game can be improved as problems don't originate from the game it self but from card design and developers. Therefore: replace Brode and consort with people who can solve problems and bring more balance and fairness to the game.
But I guess you are not from the balance and fairness department. So as you seem to think the game has no problems, is a problem by itself....intellectually and reflection wise. It is people like you part of the large Brode fanclub who make the guy leave problems in place.....
....No problem.
But who cares then? Not Blizzard. If people complain and they still keep playing and still keep buying, then there’s no problem.
The biggest problem isn't the win conditions themselves. It's that there are so few cards that DISRUPT win conditions. Removal has been very scarce in recent expansions, which is particularly a problem for standard and arena, and many of the removal cards we have are not efficient enough, causing aggro to run rampant and making combos very hard to disrupt. Examples of cards that we need to have more similar types of are Counterspell, Flare, Loatheb, Saboteur, Mindbreaker, Nerubar Weblord, Mana Wraith, and so on. (I realize not all of these cards are good, but they have the kinds of effects that we need to see more of) More removals and AoEs in general need to be printed, and at competitive costs. A card like Flame Lance doesn't even make it into a highlander deck, for example, because it's just too expensive.
Valid point I never thought of. If I think about Blizz trys to put in countercards. Like Mindbreaker to counter Razakus maybe. The thing is, it's way to easy to get rid of it and the value of the card overall ist just terrible.
That is the way to "fix" things in Blizz's mind but in the end most of those cards are unplayable. Bad design decision imo.
Its funny, because this post just brought something to mind, that I don't think I have saw discussed in any of the other 9875 "screw priests" posts.
So if we assume Blizzard gave us Mindbreaker to counter Machine Gun Anduin, like they gave us Skulking Geist to counterJade Idol ... why not just apply the mechanics the same way.
Geist "destroys" Jade Idol ... that part of Jade Druid is gone from the game once the card is played. So why not just have Mindbreaker disable hero powers for the rest of the game once it is played? Increase the cost to put it in line with Geist, and give it the same effect ... take out that game condition for the duration of the game.
The other option would be to have Raza effect only be active while the card is in play, just as it is with Mindbreaker. That way the priest would have to protect Raza to keep the machine gun.
Personally, I think either option would possibly make the deck win more, because it would force priest to build a deck that does something other than just stall and hope for a combo auto win.
I see the point of your suggestion but it's a bad idea. There is a difference between disrupting a win condition and removing it entirely. E.g. Jade Druid can still win after geist have been played as they have other cards to produce jades for them. Removing the free hero power from Razakus would destroy the deck. It is impossible to protect Raza for more than 1 turn if he becomes a MVP card.
Counter cards are not made to ensure you win a specific match up; they are just made to help gain an advantage against the specific match ups. You can still lose to pirates even though you've played golakka crawler, the same thing with hungry crab against murlocs. In razakus the entire deck is built around the hero power, and if a single card could disrupt the hero power the entirety of the game the deck is as good as dead.
Highroll has become easier. (Keleseth, Bonemare, Big Priest), while indeed Highroll was a part of the strategy only for Aggro (they are built for that).
And surviving till Wincondition as well, with tons of effective comebacks (Razakus, but also Jade Druid, without even mentioning Reno).
This state of the game is proved by the fact that the good old Miracle Rogue, which used to be the epitome of the combo deck, is nearly out of the meta, while the new Razakus is on top.
Overall, i think that a cheap solution would be in a great cut of surviving tools: You should either go Control (survival) or Combo (easy winconditions). And you either go Aggro (highroll) or Midrange (balance).
It wasnt meant to be competitive, yet you cant really have fun with non meta decks, because it seems like blizzard actually enjoy making broken powerful cards and interactions - WHICH THE ONLY GOAL IS TO WIN - that 90% of people use on both ladder and casual game mode.
Game was meant to be just for fun, which you can clearly see just by looking at some of the cards' text but the idea was lost somewhere or it just doesnt work. Why? Look above - people just netdeck everything from the web just to win because its all that matters for most of them.
The competitve scene mixed with core ideology of this game is ruining it. Add the fact that the only way you can actually DO ANYTHING FUNNY in this game is to spend 200 dollars, as matchmaking doesnt support new players or you can try cheapest aggro decks that you will get bored of after few days. For me, if not the arena, I would have been done with HS long time ago.
Your answer to that question must be the opposite if your answer to this question:
Do you still play the game?
So your options are:
A: Yes the game has a problem. No I do not still play the game.
B: No the game does not have a problem. Yes I still play the game.
The very fact that the game has its problems doesn't mean one should quit. You name them so the game can be improved as problems don't originate from the game it self but from card design and developers. Therefore: replace Brode and consort with people who can solve problems and bring more balance and fairness to the game.
But I guess you are not from the balance and fairness department. So as you seem to think the game has no problems, is a problem by itself....intellectually and reflection wise. It is people like you part of the large Brode fanclub who make the guy leave problems in place.....
....No problem.
But who cares then? Not Blizzard. If people complain and they still keep playing and still keep buying, then there’s no problem.
That is partly true as you agree that the problem is not the game, but Blizzard. So keep playing has nothing to do with the game but with Blizzard. If all the fanboys stop cheering and start thinking how to improve the game Blizzard will look at the problems.
Blizzard is very good in devide and rule just to keep injustices and imblances as they are. They even try to justify it (things like skill, balance, diversity). The OP is trying to the best of his ability to discribe those problems but that doesn't mean he should stop playing. Instead you should think with him how to better the game.
Assuming the game is perfect because it is such a succes is not a good idea.
Assuming this game is close to being shit is far more precise than describing it as perfect LMAO
Your answer to that question must be the opposite if your answer to this question:
Do you still play the game?
So your options are:
A: Yes the game has a problem. No I do not still play the game.
B: No the game does not have a problem. Yes I still play the game.
The very fact that the game has its problems doesn't mean one should quit. You name them so the game can be improved as problems don't originate from the game it self but from card design and developers. Therefore: replace Brode and consort with people who can solve problems and bring more balance and fairness to the game.
But I guess you are not from the balance and fairness department. So as you seem to think the game has no problems, is a problem by itself....intellectually and reflection wise. It is people like you part of the large Brode fanclub who make the guy leave problems in place.....
....No problem.
But who cares then? Not Blizzard. If people complain and they still keep playing and still keep buying, then there’s no problem.
That is partly true as you agree that the problem is not the game, but Blizzard. So keep playing has nothing to do with the game but with Blizzard. If all the fanboys stop cheering and start thinking how to improve the game Blizzard will look at the problems.
Blizzard is very good in devide and rule just to keep injustices and imblances as they are. They even try to justify it (things like skill, balance, diversity). The OP is trying to the best of his ability to discribe those problems but that doesn't mean he should stop playing. Instead you should think with him how to better the game.
Assuming the game is perfect because it is such a succes is not a good idea.
Nobody said the game was perfect ;) Please read.
There is no problem (by definition) if people keep playing.
If you think there is a problem, please stop playing. Otherwise you have no power.
You read for yourself with understanding. I didnt say somebody meant it was perfect. I just stated its closer to being shit than perfect.
No problem by definition if people keep playing? If people with mental disease keep on living does it mean everything is fine with them? I think youre from some imagined world.
You read for yourself with understanding. I didnt say somebody meant it was perfect. I just stated its closer to being shit than perfect.
No problem by definition if people keep playing? If people with mental disease keep on living does it mean everything is fine with them? I think youre from some imagined world.
Go play your games blizz fan boi.
Could you please stop with the name-calling. Just because you do not understand how economics function and therefore Blizzard, doesn’t give you the right to call me something I am not.
I am neither a fan of Ben Brode or Blizzard as you mentioned.
I simply explained a key element of how business works and I either encourage you to listen or to read some books about it.
You can also choose to ignore what I’m telling you and keep on living a lie. I honestly don’t care but I gave you the chance to learn economics from schools you have never attended.
Hahahahahaha yeye now throw some smart things and job is done. Sure. Look at me Im studying things, Im so smart. Gonna change the subject and educate this little moron.
What a guy... You got some things wrong, tried to manipulate some1 else to think what he didnt and now youre a poor guy thinking he knows how the world works. Please...
The biggest problem isn't the win conditions themselves. It's that there are so few cards that DISRUPT win conditions. Removal has been very scarce in recent expansions, which is particularly a problem for standard and arena, and many of the removal cards we have are not efficient enough, causing aggro to run rampant and making combos very hard to disrupt. Examples of cards that we need to have more similar types of are Counterspell, Flare, Loatheb, Saboteur, Mindbreaker, Nerubar Weblord, Mana Wraith, and so on. (I realize not all of these cards are good, but they have the kinds of effects that we need to see more of) More removals and AoEs in general need to be printed, and at competitive costs. A card like Flame Lance doesn't even make it into a highlander deck, for example, because it's just too expensive.
Valid point I never thought of. If I think about Blizz trys to put in countercards. Like Mindbreaker to counter Razakus maybe. The thing is, it's way to easy to get rid of it and the value of the card overall ist just terrible.
That is the way to "fix" things in Blizz's mind but in the end most of those cards are unplayable. Bad design decision imo.
Its funny, because this post just brought something to mind, that I don't think I have saw discussed in any of the other 9875 "screw priests" posts.
So if we assume Blizzard gave us Mindbreaker to counter Machine Gun Anduin, like they gave us Skulking Geist to counterJade Idol ... why not just apply the mechanics the same way.
Geist "destroys" Jade Idol ... that part of Jade Druid is gone from the game once the card is played. So why not just have Mindbreaker disable hero powers for the rest of the game once it is played? Increase the cost to put it in line with Geist, and give it the same effect ... take out that game condition for the duration of the game.
The other option would be to have Raza effect only be active while the card is in play, just as it is with Mindbreaker. That way the priest would have to protect Raza to keep the machine gun.
Personally, I think either option would possibly make the deck win more, because it would force priest to build a deck that does something other than just stall and hope for a combo auto win.
I like that idea about mindbreaker but afraid it is too much even though i hate gun priest. I think the correct way is to make mindbreaker battlecry: increase your opponent's hero power to cost (1) more (for the rest of the game) and can take away stats...make it like 3 mana 3/3. And the battlecry needs to stick before or after Raza is played or in order words should be not overwritten by Raza.
Its funny, because this post just brought something to mind, that I don't think I have saw discussed in any of the other 9875 "screw priests" posts.
So if we assume Blizzard gave us Mindbreaker to counter Machine Gun Anduin, like they gave us Skulking Geist to counterJade Idol ... why not just apply the mechanics the same way.
Geist "destroys" Jade Idol ... that part of Jade Druid is gone from the game once the card is played. So why not just have Mindbreaker disable hero powers for the rest of the game once it is played? Increase the cost to put it in line with Geist, and give it the same effect ... take out that game condition for the duration of the game.
The other option would be to have Raza effect only be active while the card is in play, just as it is with Mindbreaker. That way the priest would have to protect Raza to keep the machine gun.
Personally, I think either option would possibly make the deck win more, because it would force priest to build a deck that does something other than just stall and hope for a combo auto win.
So I think the solution is much simpler. Raza discounts your current hero power to zero. Very simple idea, but very efficient an quite versatile. First I think Razakus Priest is a very balanced Tier 1 combo deck. It has a cool dynamic and a very skill dependent way of playing. Therefore I would like for the deck to stay in the meta and be viable. Else priest is left with Big Priest (a simple high roll deck) and Dragon Priest (a low tier deck). When finally some light has been shed on priest, we shouldn't destroy it. So if you want to reduce its power it should be subtle in order to not bring it on to fringe.
Being able to drop Raza on 5 is a huge tempo swing. I am sure that is what they intended when they created it. Back then it was still not worth playing singleton for the value, but now it is broken. So by forcing to play Raza after Anduin, you take away that tempo swing early on. No more heal 2 every turn for free. No more big 5/5 on turn 5. This even makes Raza a dead draw until you get Anduin. The tempo loss is huge. It makes the deck way weaker to early aggression. But it leaves the combo and fun part for the end of the game in those control/combo match ups. It reduces the overall power level of the deck, without breaking what people enjoy about the deck. Also it brings some versatility. When playing against aggro, priest doesn't care about the combo. It can drop Raza on 5, and have the free healing in order to play defensively. But will then have a much harder time killing its opponent off, when it has to pay 2 mana for voidform, which we can all agree is not broken.
It weakens priest in the early game against control, and in the late game against aggro. To me it feels way more natural than including a broken card which will stay for a year and a half, and takes hero powers away from the game, making all DK useless cards.
This is just a salt post. I would have taken it seriously, but then you started by insulting people.
Salt post? No, as i play the same decks I complain about. I have the same win conditions as the others. But I see the decks I play and are able to compare those to decks in expansions before. And I can say how laughable it is when I win because I mulligan Keleseth and two shadowsteps. It's practically impossible to lose then.
Are you a person that is proud about such a win? I am not. Because the design behind that is just terrible.
And as I said, there is a reason Hearthstone lost pro players and big streamers. Not because I am salty (which I am often enough if I lose to crap playing people, yes)
Hahahahahaha yeye now throw some smart things and job is done. Sure. Look at me Im studying things, Im so smart. Gonna change the subject and educate this little moron.
What a guy... You got some things wrong, tried to manipulate some1 else to think what he didnt and now youre a poor guy thinking he knows how the world works. Please...
If anything, the archetype polarization has gone down quite a bit in this meta (60/40 or 70/30s for across the board), but has been replaced with the draw importance of the swingy "I win" cards, that really limit the impact of decisions for both players. The Raza-Anduin, Keleseth-Shadowstep, Barnes-whatever, ramp-UI just take the game out of one player's hands completely, without the other having earned anything through their play.
The main "problem" with this game is that things like "complexity" and "skill" which many wannabe pro players like to allude to, have never been the design goal from day one.
Yes, in a fairy tale world where decks like miracle rogue, patron warrior, freeze mage or handlock were the only things you could play then Hearthstone could be a very competitive-friendly game. But Blizzard has made it crystal clear that that is NOT what they are going for with HS, as shown by the fact that all the aforementioned decks were eventually nerfed due to being "unfun" to play against.
And there is more than enough reason for that being so, considering that around 95% of the total player base are people who treat Hearthstone as a casual game that they play in the toilet or bus.
If you want to play a game for the competition, you have many alternatives for that: CS,LoL, FGC games, Starcraft and many, many more to choose from. Hearthstone is simply a terrible choice for that and it's about time people get off their high horse and admit it.
When smurfing on NA on low rank I feel confirmed about my topic.
You see a lot of crappy decks. But if they manage to pull out their win condition it's over in almost all cases. Even though you win a lot of those games it just feels wrong to lose to people playing bullshit. That try to build around missing cards with cards that make no sense in the archetype they are playing.
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I see the point of your suggestion but it's a bad idea. There is a difference between disrupting a win condition and removing it entirely. E.g. Jade Druid can still win after geist have been played as they have other cards to produce jades for them. Removing the free hero power from Razakus would destroy the deck. It is impossible to protect Raza for more than 1 turn if he becomes a MVP card.
Counter cards are not made to ensure you win a specific match up; they are just made to help gain an advantage against the specific match ups. You can still lose to pirates even though you've played golakka crawler, the same thing with hungry crab against murlocs. In razakus the entire deck is built around the hero power, and if a single card could disrupt the hero power the entirety of the game the deck is as good as dead.
Just look at Miracle Rogue compared Razakus.
Highroll has become easier. (Keleseth, Bonemare, Big Priest), while indeed Highroll was a part of the strategy only for Aggro (they are built for that).
And surviving till Wincondition as well, with tons of effective comebacks (Razakus, but also Jade Druid, without even mentioning Reno).
This state of the game is proved by the fact that the good old Miracle Rogue, which used to be the epitome of the combo deck, is nearly out of the meta, while the new Razakus is on top.
Overall, i think that a cheap solution would be in a great cut of surviving tools: You should either go Control (survival) or Combo (easy winconditions). And you either go Aggro (highroll) or Midrange (balance).
You know what is the real problem with this game?
It wasnt meant to be competitive, yet you cant really have fun with non meta decks, because it seems like blizzard actually enjoy making broken powerful cards and interactions - WHICH THE ONLY GOAL IS TO WIN - that 90% of people use on both ladder and casual game mode.
Game was meant to be just for fun, which you can clearly see just by looking at some of the cards' text but the idea was lost somewhere or it just doesnt work. Why? Look above - people just netdeck everything from the web just to win because its all that matters for most of them.
The competitve scene mixed with core ideology of this game is ruining it. Add the fact that the only way you can actually DO ANYTHING FUNNY in this game is to spend 200 dollars, as matchmaking doesnt support new players or you can try cheapest aggro decks that you will get bored of after few days. For me, if not the arena, I would have been done with HS long time ago.
SO MUCH FUN.
You read for yourself with understanding. I didnt say somebody meant it was perfect. I just stated its closer to being shit than perfect.
No problem by definition if people keep playing? If people with mental disease keep on living does it mean everything is fine with them? I think youre from some imagined world.
Go play your games blizz fan boi.
This is just a salt post. I would have taken it seriously, but then you started by insulting people.
Hahahahahaha yeye now throw some smart things and job is done. Sure. Look at me Im studying things, Im so smart. Gonna change the subject and educate this little moron.
What a guy... You got some things wrong, tried to manipulate some1 else to think what he didnt and now youre a poor guy thinking he knows how the world works. Please...
A lot of people hating on priest like they hatin on shamans and mages era before. Oh well.
But I see the decks I play and are able to compare those to decks in expansions before. And I can say how laughable it is when I win because I mulligan Keleseth and two shadowsteps. It's practically impossible to lose then.
Are you a person that is proud about such a win? I am not. Because the design behind that is just terrible.
And as I said, there is a reason Hearthstone lost pro players and big streamers. Not because I am salty (which I am often enough if I lose to crap playing people, yes)
If anything, the archetype polarization has gone down quite a bit in this meta (60/40 or 70/30s for across the board), but has been replaced with the draw importance of the swingy "I win" cards, that really limit the impact of decisions for both players. The Raza-Anduin, Keleseth-Shadowstep, Barnes-whatever, ramp-UI just take the game out of one player's hands completely, without the other having earned anything through their play.
CCGing since '98.
The main "problem" with this game is that things like "complexity" and "skill" which many wannabe pro players like to allude to, have never been the design goal from day one.
Yes, in a fairy tale world where decks like miracle rogue, patron warrior, freeze mage or handlock were the only things you could play then Hearthstone could be a very competitive-friendly game. But Blizzard has made it crystal clear that that is NOT what they are going for with HS, as shown by the fact that all the aforementioned decks were eventually nerfed due to being "unfun" to play against.
And there is more than enough reason for that being so, considering that around 95% of the total player base are people who treat Hearthstone as a casual game that they play in the toilet or bus.
If you want to play a game for the competition, you have many alternatives for that: CS,LoL, FGC games, Starcraft and many, many more to choose from. Hearthstone is simply a terrible choice for that and it's about time people get off their high horse and admit it.
When smurfing on NA on low rank I feel confirmed about my topic.
You see a lot of crappy decks. But if they manage to pull out their win condition it's over in almost all cases.
Even though you win a lot of those games it just feels wrong to lose to people playing bullshit. That try to build around missing cards with cards that make no sense in the archetype they are playing.