Hearthpwn

I don't know if it was like this before since I'd never hit legend in other metas but this one feels like games are more decided on who gets a better draw rather than who makes better decisions. 

Quote from Hoomans >>

Quote from Tarox_Bladewing >>

Everyone who agrees with this has no memory.

 Or they don't play cancer priest and jade druid...like YOU ROFL..

I don't see why this would be the worst. More than one top tier deck has existed and changed hats, so to speak, in the same expansion (Jade Druid meta shifted to Razakus meta, which soon after also adopted Tempo Rogue as well. 

Many other metas have literally kept the same deck at the top tier status until the next expansion.

Quote from Skyi101 >>

I strongly agree that this is the most diverse meta when comparing t1 decks of this expansions Vs previous expansions.

So what's the problem? All the t1 decks are essentially variants on high roll. Priest, did I draw t4/5/8, rogue, did I draw T2 bounce, Druid, did I mull ramp with UI, etc? I've had numerous opponents just concede by T5 at ranks r10-r5 just to having bad draw, I'm playing control lock.

My point is even though the meta is diverse (Yeah!), It also, feels like crap to get high rolled and be helpless by T5 and just roll your eyes (Boo!). The best comparison is priest mirrors, basically whoever hits raza/anduin dk first wins. That's just poor design. 

We folks, are in a place of uncertainty at best. Fun decks and diverse meta with less sense of skill then ever. I think the problem at its heart is just that the game doesn't currently feel very rewarding for good play, its just blind luck mostly.

Will throw my opinion behind what a lot of people have said...

This is in no way the worst expansion ever. The MSoG and the period of Shaman dominance following Kara were both worse.

That said the mistakes made in Kara are being revisited: Patches vs. Kazakus vs. Jades all over again.

Quote from BGgungame >>

I disagree, MSG is by far the worst, most unneeded, game-breaking piece of shit this game has ever seen, and it needs to be deleted from the game (imo). This expansion (MSG) ruins other expansions by just existing. I took a break after it came out, skipping almost all of Un'Goro - I was that burned out.

This expansion is good, it's MSG that makes the meta bad.

WutFace the worst meta ever was Gadgetzan. Only 3000 legends. Impossible to play meme decks. Too much aggro.

Guys, instead of crying like little kids for something you can't control, why don't you just enjoy the game and move on? Those cards that make you mad will eventually rotate out of Standard. So ask yourself: is it worth complaining about something that won't matter in the near future? Really, you can do better. I believe in you.

Well, I would say, Un'Goro was slightly better but that was caused by the fact that many cards rotated when it it, so the ladder had a bigger change to face than it did when Knights came around. And this time around, we finally saw some bit of "slowing down the meta" (not, the quotation marks because aggro is still relevant on ladder), however, you could survive beyond turn 6 which was almost never possible during Gadgetzan (and if you did, you were stomped by Jades). I still hold on to a theory in one of the other threads that, if Knights came first and Un'Goro in August, everyone would say that Knights was better than Un'Goro due to the impact on ladder.
I like Knights and I think it is unfair to judge this expansion based on cards from a previous one that hasn't rotated out yet which is why I don't get OP's post.
Also, Wild has never been this fun due to the fact that DKs + inspire mechanics (I know, priest is broken there) can lead to some hilarious shenanigans. But hey, at least I am getting closer to my golden warlock thanks to DK Gul'Dan.

How can you enjoy playing a game when you dont like what youre facing? Explain to me please. Because every time I see some1 saying "JUST HAVE FUN" Im wondering if they just like playing meta decks thus they are actually able to still enjoy HS.

Im just asking politely. How do You want people to enjoy something, if they dont like it? They want to keep playing because it used to be better. Some people invested lot of time in this game, some people also a lot of money. And now they can shove it up their asses.

Would You say to your friend or girlfriend to stop whining, that he didnt enjoy a movie and tell him to JUST KEEP WATCHING AND HAVE FUN? Does it make any sense to You?

this expansion made me leave arena and standard

Diverse meta yeah, but if you can't play casual without facing a deck involving either a DK or Kelseth, you get bored and go elsewhere

Same goes for arena. Vicious fledgling was nuts, but it was nothing compared to temporary immunity, +4/+4, +3 attack every turn and add random legendary dragon deathrattles. Those are just the neutrals.

Did you forget MSoG? All arguements against this expansion are arguements against MSoG. It gave us Jades, Raza, Doppelgangster, Dragonfire potion and so much more. All these wonderful cards that are making the game more fun, right? RIGHT? MSoG is one of the worst things of all time. 

I wonder if they print a anti Priest card ( Heropowers can’t target Face or something like that) .

Would be kinda fitting..... Pirates to OP??? Here have a Pirate eating Crab.

Jades to OP ??? Here have a 1 mana eating Geist.

I wonder if Blizzard will come up with another´interactive ´ Legendary next exp....

Until Control Decks look like a Clusterf.. of Techcards.

Are you really joking about MSOG? It had MUCH more diverse metagame compared to current. Here are the pics, one of it is MSOG 2 month before Ungoro and second 1 week before Ungoro.

You see how may decks are here? And I strictly remember that this top10 decks nearly similarly appeared on rank5-1 and they all were viable. And I'm not even saying that Ungoro after rogue nerf gave viable deck for each class, and that was greatest time in standard ever.

And what about KoFT? Only 4 viable decks, jade druid, razakus, keleseth rogue and lock. Current situation is the nearly worst in hearthstone history (worthier was only Karazhan when ladder was flooded with mid-shaman).

So definitely current set is bad in terms of design and balance. I don't know why Blizzard are not testing balance on PTR before release. ANd even if they are making mistakes, why are not they fixing it to adjust balance on fly.  Without only nerfing one-two cards, but buffing some cards too, to make some unplayable archetypes viable. Paladin, warrior, hunter - are really abandoned classes for now, shaman is hardly playable too. Half of game classes are not working and will not be working till next expansion. And this is Team5 mistake which they dont want to recognize and dont want to fix

Quote from s1ayer85 >>

Are you really joking about MSOG? It had MUCH more diverse metagame compared to current. Here are the pics, one of it is MSOG 2 month before expansion and second 1 week before expansion.

 

 

You see how may decks are here? And I strictly remember that this top10 decks nearly similarly appeared on rank5-1 and they all were viable. And I'm not even saying that Ungoro after rogue nerf gave viable deck for each class, and that was greatest time in standard ever.

And what about KoFT? Only 4 viable decks, jade druid, razakus, keleseth rogue and lock. Current situation is the nearly worst in hearthstone history (worthier was only Karazhan when ladder was flooded with mid-shaman).

 

So definitely current set is bad in terms of design and balance. I don't know why Blizzard are not testing balance on PTR before release. ANd even if they are making mistakes, why are not they fixing it to adjust balance on fly.  Without only nerfing one-two cards, but buffing some cards too, to make some unplayable archetypes viable. Paladin, warrior, hunter - are really abandoned classes for now, shaman is hardly playable too. Half of game classes are not working and will not be working till next expansion. And this is Team5 mistake which they dont want to recognize and dont want to fix

Quote from s1ayer85 >>

Are you really joking about MSOG? It had MUCH more diverse metagame compared to current. Here are the pics, one of it is MSOG 2 month before Ungoro and second 1 week before Ungoro.

 

 

You see how may decks are here? And I strictly remember that this top10 decks nearly similarly appeared on rank5-1 and they all were viable. And I'm not even saying that Ungoro after rogue nerf gave viable deck for each class, and that was greatest time in standard ever.

And what about KoFT? Only 4 viable decks, jade druid, razakus, keleseth rogue and lock. Current situation is the nearly worst in hearthstone history (worthier was only Karazhan when ladder was flooded with mid-shaman).

 

So definitely current set is bad in terms of design and balance. I don't know why Blizzard are not testing balance on PTR before release. ANd even if they are making mistakes, why are not they fixing it to adjust balance on fly.  Without only nerfing one-two cards, but buffing some cards too, to make some unplayable archetypes viable. Paladin, warrior, hunter - are really abandoned classes for now, shaman is hardly playable too. Half of game classes are not working and will not be working till next expansion. And this is Team5 mistake which they dont want to recognize and dont want to fix

Oh don't get me wrong meta was diverse. But it was bad. Reno deck's win condition was you either draw Reno by turn 6 or you've lose the game because almost everyone played Aggro decks. 

PW was stupidly overpowered and popular (Pre STB-nerf), almost everyone played. And if Reno was played on turn 6, PW would insta concede. To make things even worse, turn 6 was not always even achieveable. The amount of damage that old PW could produce in first 4 turns was insane. 

Aggro Shaman was similiar to PW, smorc the shit out of your opponent and hope that they don't have Reno.

But if you just change a couple cards / classes around, you just described the current meta. 

Draw Barnes on T4-5, and get Y'Sharrg ... its pretty much over right there. Draw Raza and Anduin on Curve (or close to it), and at least a couple of the basic control cards (out of the seemingly 136 different control cards they have), and it's over. 

I can at least give shaman a little pass, because their win condition does rely on at least building a board, and getting lucky with Dopple > Evolve outcome, AND usually needing a Bloodlust in there too. I am even noticing the pro players are evolving earlier with smaller minions, which is really how I feel the deck 'should' be played, rather than going for the all or nothing condition. 

As for aggro, both of my main Aggro decks are capable of T4 lethal, although T5-6 is more common. (Token Druid, Zoo Warlock). I guess the difference between them and PW (and pre-nerf aggro Druid), is they ramp up to it, although really quickly with the right cards drawn ... but dead is dead. 

This has long been my position in the current nerf/buff debate ... we can take the same arguments that were used to successfully lobby for previous nerfs, and nearly all of them apply to the current offending decks, but yet so many players try to just use the "L2P" or "It's going to cycle 'soon'" arguments. If 'soon' was next month, I would understand, but it's next spring. That means all winter with this. 

IMHO, the game can be balanced, at least better than it is, but Team 5 needs to be willing to make adjustments much, much quicker, and they need to be willing to buff as well as nerf. And players, especially if you ever said anything negative about Jade / Aggro Druid, or Quest Rogue, need to re-examine your own comments about those decks, and realize we have a very similar situation now, which is why we are seeing far too many players saying they are going to start sitting out until next expansion.   

Quote from zzAMBIENzz >>

Oh don't get me wrong meta was diverse. But it was bad. Reno deck's win condition was you either draw Reno by turn 6 or you've lose the game because almost everyone played Aggro decks. 

PW was stupidly overpowered and popular (Pre STB-nerf), almost everyone played. And if Reno was played on turn 6, PW would insta concede. To make things even worse, turn 6 was not always even achieveable. The amount of damage that old PW could produce in first 4 turns was insane. 

Aggro Shaman was similiar to PW, smorc the shit out of your opponent and hope that they don't have Reno.

But if you just change a couple cards / classes around, you just described the current meta. 

Draw Barnes on T4-5, and get Y'Sharrg ... its pretty much over right there. Draw Raza and Anduin on Curve (or close to it), and at least a couple of the basic control cards (out of the seemingly 136 different control cards they have), and it's over. 

I can at least give shaman a little pass, because their win condition does rely on at least building a board, and getting lucky with Dopple > Evolve outcome, AND usually needing a Bloodlust in there too. I am even noticing the pro players are evolving earlier with smaller minions, which is really how I feel the deck 'should' be played, rather than going for the all or nothing condition. 

As for aggro, both of my main Aggro decks are capable of T4 lethal, although T5-6 is more common. (Token Druid, Zoo Warlock). I guess the difference between them and PW (and pre-nerf aggro Druid), is they ramp up to it, although really quickly with the right cards drawn ... but dead is dead. 

This has long been my position in the current nerf/buff debate ... we can take the same arguments that were used to successfully lobby for previous nerfs, and nearly all of them apply to the current offending decks, but yet so many players try to just use the "L2P" or "It's going to cycle 'soon'" arguments. If 'soon' was next month, I would understand, but it's next spring. That means all winter with this. 

IMHO, the game can be balanced, at least better than it is, but Team 5 needs to be willing to make adjustments much, much quicker, and they need to be willing to buff as well as nerf. And players, especially if you ever said anything negative about Jade / Aggro Druid, or Quest Rogue, need to re-examine your own comments about those decks, and realize we have a very similar situation now, which is why we are seeing far too many players saying they are going to start sitting out until next expansion.   

Quote from nigrivon >>

How can you call this meta diverse? Sure, we meet many classess... and most of them play Pirates, Keleseth, Bonemare, Vicious Fledling and Cobalt Scalebane.