Anyone else feel like the game is turning into one great big coin flip? I understand that there's always going to be variability in which cards are drawn from the deck and which decks do well against one another, but the current state of the game has much more randomness than that. Consider the current decks doing well in the meta. There's bunch which run prince-2. If he appears in the first couple of turns the rest of the game is a struggle. Likewise big priest - did he draw Barnes by turn 4 - if so you probably lost. The highlander decks also fall into this category - do they have the single answer to your threats? No - you win - yes you lose. On top of that the discover mechanic (which I do like in concept even though I think it's kind of broken at the moment) and the ability to generate random cards add an additional level of rng that's near impossible to play around. Then there are cards like dirty rat which can win or lose a game in the blink of an eye.
My question is - should this be the direction the game is heading? Am I wrong to think of these effects as a negative? As a game which already loses a lot of the skill component through net-decking, losing and winning games based on rng just feels a bit meh. Note that this isn't some salty rant by someone who keeps losing - these coin flips sometimes go in my favour.
p.s. there's also a certain pirate who I still can't understand how he made it into the game. A card you never want to draw that plays you a free card, thins your deck and guarantees one damage - that sound like a sensible design...
Yah I wish we could get the Yogg meta back, when the game was completely reliant on skill, and by skill I meant yogg's skill.
The game actually has much less randomness in individual cards, and a lot more randomness on drawing since there are so many instant win draws these days. Pick your poison i guess.
I like RNG in Hearthstone, it ensures that all games you play are different. Sure, you all may be playing the same decks, but at the same time the outcomes you get from certain cards are completely different.
RNG helps keep Hearthstone fresh.
Sure, it's frustrating sometimes when you don't kill the right minion or don't draw the right card, but without RNG every game would feel the same, and Hearthstone would get boring very quickly.
I was just thinking today: Yogg was less painful than these topdeck highroll skill decks.
And ya as a mutli time legendary player getting to R5 this season can feel as big a grind to legendary if RNG card draw isn't in your favour. It's rampant, even watching the tourny today, skill had almost no impact. For example Muzzy won on a high roll with big druid. 1 card or he would've lost and he got it.
I feel worse losing to these shinanigans than I ever did against a last ditch Yogg. Plus every T1 meta deck is first to draw X. At least Yogg wasn't in every deck.
Most of think you say is right. Current meta is boring as f*ck. Almost every game turns into flipping a coin. Most of the game are won or lost based on your opponent’s class, mulligans and/or first four draws. There used to be some difficult decks to play but not anymore.
The main reason I dislike this meta so much is the dominance of highroll decks. This game has become: draw x by turn y and win. Big priest, Keleseth Rogue & Evolve Shaman are serious offenders.
When I win I just think I got a lucky draw that round and my opponent didn't. And when I loose it's vice versa I don't feel like I've been beaten I just feel robbed by bad RNG. It isn't a very satisfying experience at the moment. The decks in my opinion aren't fun because if you don't draw those certain cards your screwed and the game your playing feels crap because your not doing what your deck is supposed so. If you do get lucky and draw those cards I don't get any satisfaction in winning because I didn't do anything. It's like the game choose that I was going to win that round by drawing those cards early for me.
I mean you may as well play a frickin slot machine. The game needs board interaction to be fun. Otherwise what's the point? I really liked Un'goro meta. I hate Frozen Throne so far. First non-stop Jade Druid, now non-stop highroll bs.
People cried about too much rng, this is the result....another example, that you should be careful what you wish, your wishes might come true :)
This is basically easy statistics: We have one RNG element which you can´t eliminate called card draw, because this is freakin card game :)
So you have one switch where you can easily perform good or bad. If you had more RNG decisions the game would be more fresh. You could have for example 2 good and 3 bad outcomes, which can make an average performances.
So in Un´goro we had more discover in the meta, which means more rng, we had legendaries like elise, medivh saw more play and so on. Also we had the adapt mechanic, which is also rng.
Now if you take for example the big 3 (jade, rogue and priest), none of these decks rely really on rng or when was the las time the card of swashburglar decided the game. Do you care which 10-cost minion medivh spawns with ui? At priest there is probably only Glimmerroot where you can have some diffrent outcomes. Shadow visions was never that big rng since it fetches you a card from your deck is more a tactical choice than rng. Kazakus is always a bit of roulette, but more in a bad way for the player who picks it and Lyra is strong because she gives you a card and not really the quality of the card.
So all in all, we could use a bit more rng in the game, so the outcome is not solely dependent on the card shuffle.
Discover and "add a random copy of card from opp. deck" need to be eliminated or adjusted. Again discover and everything is fine, but a 1 mana card should not be able to "discover" or acquire an 8 mana legendary or whatever.
There needs to be a cap like "add a random card from opponents deck that costs 3 or less". For Discover it should be "discover a taunt minion with same mana cost as this minion".
Problem solved. Team 5 are horrific at making "fun" gams though...so I just casual Hs and play ES now. Much more enjoyable
I think the problem with making drawing cards being the only meaningful rng in the game would wind up being a very bad thing. More games would be decided then by just who curved out better.
Making RNG-driven game is what you need to have commercial success, because if any human being can win you will have broadest audience on CCG-market. So HS works as intended and RNG is part of its success. It always was like that.
There are just way too many random card generation effects, effectively making the possibility of a fatigue win condition non-existent!
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Most of your examples just point to the rock,paper, and scissors that card games usually have. Not many top meta decks use rng cards. Discover for example other than dragons is no where to be seen. Yogg is non existant in rhe top meta.
The RNG is not as present as most people cry it is. All thw top decks eschew rng for streamlined power. If you draw your combo pieces early and win then thats lucky, but welcome to topdecking in card games.
People blaming the rng sound like they r the #1 HS player but the rng screwed them,
the RNG isnt random as u think, for example when u play shaman it is kinda a skill to know which mana cost u want to evolve into if u wanna charge or taunt, dont just evolve and hope u get what u want, go and see which mana cost has the most taunts - charge - etc. Think before using RNG , even the Random cards need thinking
Its not just RNG - its that every fucking useable deck is broken and severely overpowered. I dont care what vicious bullshit website says either, Stats are useless. What matters is the player experience and it blows monkey cock right now. Every fucking game is against some unbeatable, high roll bull shit deck. Every. Game.
Its just Jade Druid and their endless heals and 10/10 minions. Oh yeah, Ultimate Infest-I just won the game-station is also sickening. Then, Keleseth Rogue with an endless supply of cheap, powerful minions. Then, Priest - oh my fucking god.... make it stop. There is no custom deckbuilding allowed. You get run over so bad with anything other than a cancer deck that it makes the game unbearable. It did not used to be like this.
To the guy that claimed the game would get repetitive and boring if they didnt have it this way..... ummm..... dude..... the game is fucking rpetitive as hell right now. Cmon?
Its not just RNG - its that every fucking useable deck is broken and severely overpowered. I dont care what vicious bullshit website says either, Stats are useless. What matters is the player experience and it blows monkey cock right now. Every fucking game is against some unbeatable, high roll bull shit deck. Every. Game.
Ok, there are so many things wrong with this statement - I don't even know where to start. xD First of all, if every deck is overpowered and broken, effectively none of them is. Secondly, when you say that stats are useless and player experience matters, I assume that you're specifically talking about your personal player experience and none other because, guess what, everything else would be statistics.^^ For instance, my player experience at the moment is pretty decent, so it's my word against yours ... because I remember someone saying that stats are useless. Whatever should we do now? :O
Its not just RNG - its that every fucking useable deck is broken and severely overpowered. I dont care what vicious bullshit website says either, Stats are useless. What matters is the player experience and it blows monkey cock right now. Every fucking game is against some unbeatable, high roll bull shit deck. Every. Game.
Ok, there are so many things wrong with this statement - I don't even know where to start. xD First of all, if every deck is overpowered and broken, effectively none of them is. Secondly, when you say that stats are useless and player experience matters, I assume that you're specifically talking about your personal player experience and none other because, guess what, everything else would be statistics.^^ For instance, my player experience at the moment is pretty decent, so it's my word against yours ... because I remember someone saying that stats are useless. Whatever should we do now? :O
Anyone else feel like the game is turning into one great big coin flip? I understand that there's always going to be variability in which cards are drawn from the deck and which decks do well against one another, but the current state of the game has much more randomness than that. Consider the current decks doing well in the meta. There's bunch which run prince-2. If he appears in the first couple of turns the rest of the game is a struggle. Likewise big priest - did he draw Barnes by turn 4 - if so you probably lost. The highlander decks also fall into this category - do they have the single answer to your threats? No - you win - yes you lose. On top of that the discover mechanic (which I do like in concept even though I think it's kind of broken at the moment) and the ability to generate random cards add an additional level of rng that's near impossible to play around. Then there are cards like dirty rat which can win or lose a game in the blink of an eye.
My question is - should this be the direction the game is heading? Am I wrong to think of these effects as a negative? As a game which already loses a lot of the skill component through net-decking, losing and winning games based on rng just feels a bit meh. Note that this isn't some salty rant by someone who keeps losing - these coin flips sometimes go in my favour.
p.s. there's also a certain pirate who I still can't understand how he made it into the game. A card you never want to draw that plays you a free card, thins your deck and guarantees one damage - that sound like a sensible design...
Yah I wish we could get the Yogg meta back, when the game was completely reliant on skill, and by skill I meant yogg's skill.
The game actually has much less randomness in individual cards, and a lot more randomness on drawing since there are so many instant win draws these days. Pick your poison i guess.
I like RNG in Hearthstone, it ensures that all games you play are different. Sure, you all may be playing the same decks, but at the same time the outcomes you get from certain cards are completely different.
RNG helps keep Hearthstone fresh.
Sure, it's frustrating sometimes when you don't kill the right minion or don't draw the right card, but without RNG every game would feel the same, and Hearthstone would get boring very quickly.
Ask Yogg, Dr. GG, and the shredder family about randomness. Then complain
I was just thinking today: Yogg was less painful than these topdeck highroll skill decks.
And ya as a mutli time legendary player getting to R5 this season can feel as big a grind to legendary if RNG card draw isn't in your favour. It's rampant, even watching the tourny today, skill had almost no impact. For example Muzzy won on a high roll with big druid. 1 card or he would've lost and he got it.
I feel worse losing to these shinanigans than I ever did against a last ditch Yogg. Plus every T1 meta deck is first to draw X. At least Yogg wasn't in every deck.
Most of think you say is right. Current meta is boring as f*ck. Almost every game turns into flipping a coin. Most of the game are won or lost based on your opponent’s class, mulligans and/or first four draws. There used to be some difficult decks to play but not anymore.
The main reason I dislike this meta so much is the dominance of highroll decks. This game has become: draw x by turn y and win. Big priest, Keleseth Rogue & Evolve Shaman are serious offenders.
When I win I just think I got a lucky draw that round and my opponent didn't. And when I loose it's vice versa I don't feel like I've been beaten I just feel robbed by bad RNG. It isn't a very satisfying experience at the moment. The decks in my opinion aren't fun because if you don't draw those certain cards your screwed and the game your playing feels crap because your not doing what your deck is supposed so. If you do get lucky and draw those cards I don't get any satisfaction in winning because I didn't do anything. It's like the game choose that I was going to win that round by drawing those cards early for me.
I mean you may as well play a frickin slot machine. The game needs board interaction to be fun. Otherwise what's the point? I really liked Un'goro meta. I hate Frozen Throne so far. First non-stop Jade Druid, now non-stop highroll bs.
Dead but dreaming
People cried about too much rng, this is the result....another example, that you should be careful what you wish, your wishes might come true :)
This is basically easy statistics: We have one RNG element which you can´t eliminate called card draw, because this is freakin card game :)
So you have one switch where you can easily perform good or bad. If you had more RNG decisions the game would be more fresh. You could have for example 2 good and 3 bad outcomes, which can make an average performances.
So in Un´goro we had more discover in the meta, which means more rng, we had legendaries like elise, medivh saw more play and so on. Also we had the adapt mechanic, which is also rng.
Now if you take for example the big 3 (jade, rogue and priest), none of these decks rely really on rng or when was the las time the card of swashburglar decided the game. Do you care which 10-cost minion medivh spawns with ui? At priest there is probably only Glimmerroot where you can have some diffrent outcomes. Shadow visions was never that big rng since it fetches you a card from your deck is more a tactical choice than rng. Kazakus is always a bit of roulette, but more in a bad way for the player who picks it and Lyra is strong because she gives you a card and not really the quality of the card.
So all in all, we could use a bit more rng in the game, so the outcome is not solely dependent on the card shuffle.
Discover needs to go.
Aggro needs to go. Now.
Discover and "add a random copy of card from opp. deck" need to be eliminated or adjusted. Again discover and everything is fine, but a 1 mana card should not be able to "discover" or acquire an 8 mana legendary or whatever.
There needs to be a cap like "add a random card from opponents deck that costs 3 or less". For Discover it should be "discover a taunt minion with same mana cost as this minion".
Problem solved. Team 5 are horrific at making "fun" gams though...so I just casual Hs and play ES now. Much more enjoyable
I think the problem with making drawing cards being the only meaningful rng in the game would wind up being a very bad thing. More games would be decided then by just who curved out better.
Rng in other places can balance that out.
Making RNG-driven game is what you need to have commercial success, because if any human being can win you will have broadest audience on CCG-market. So HS works as intended and RNG is part of its success. It always was like that.
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There are just way too many random card generation effects, effectively making the possibility of a fatigue win condition non-existent!
Most of your examples just point to the rock,paper, and scissors that card games usually have. Not many top meta decks use rng cards. Discover for example other than dragons is no where to be seen. Yogg is non existant in rhe top meta.
The RNG is not as present as most people cry it is. All thw top decks eschew rng for streamlined power. If you draw your combo pieces early and win then thats lucky, but welcome to topdecking in card games.
People blaming the rng sound like they r the #1 HS player but the rng screwed them,
the RNG isnt random as u think, for example when u play shaman it is kinda a skill to know which mana cost u want to evolve into if u wanna charge or taunt, dont just evolve and hope u get what u want, go and see which mana cost has the most taunts - charge - etc. Think before using RNG , even the Random cards need thinking
Its not just RNG - its that every fucking useable deck is broken and severely overpowered. I dont care what vicious bullshit website says either, Stats are useless. What matters is the player experience and it blows monkey cock right now. Every fucking game is against some unbeatable, high roll bull shit deck. Every. Game.
Its just Jade Druid and their endless heals and 10/10 minions. Oh yeah, Ultimate Infest-I just won the game-station is also sickening. Then, Keleseth Rogue with an endless supply of cheap, powerful minions. Then, Priest - oh my fucking god.... make it stop. There is no custom deckbuilding allowed. You get run over so bad with anything other than a cancer deck that it makes the game unbearable. It did not used to be like this.
To the guy that claimed the game would get repetitive and boring if they didnt have it this way..... ummm..... dude..... the game is fucking rpetitive as hell right now. Cmon?
I win due to skill and lose due to bad RNG. :D
I win due to skill and lose due to bad RNG. :D
Without RNG game would be boring. Check other card games, they suck. If there is no RNG then I could play chess.
Hearthstone is the second most popular game right now, after LoL.
Blizzard won't change such a badass development.
So you have two options: Quit game or stop crying and enjoy the game.