If you have a minion that does something beneficial to/for another friendly minion (e.g., Crackling Razormaw or Argent Protector or Plague Scientist), and you have nothing else to do that turn but perhaps use your hero power (say maybe you're out of other cards in your hand and have no minions on the field), what do you do? Do you play that minion and throw away its battlecry? How long do you wait before sucking it up and playing that conditional battlecry minion? (say if you keep drawing spells).
I try not to because the tempo swing when you do draw a minion can be great, It does suck to play these minions for no reason but sometime you just have to. Tech cards aren't too bad to waste if you know your opponent has no weapons or no 1 cost spells ect still feels bad though getting no value.
Yeah this is an eternal dilemma for me too! This is probably one of the things that really separates good players from average ones (and I firmly count myself among the latter!).
Personally it depends on probably 3 things for me - first, what the statline is of the minion (i.e. how much of the mana cost is sunk into the effect); second, how likely I think it is that I'm going to draw a suitable card to use the effect next turn (based on what's left to draw); and how my opponent appears to be playing (i.e. my estimated likelihood that the minion will be immediately killed).
Interested to hear other people's thoughts though!
Depends on your deck and what other options you have, and what deck you are playing against.
As a hunter you generally want to keep up your tempo plays, and if you don't have anything else to play a Crackling Razormaw on t2 is quite okay.
If you play against a very aggressive deck it is unlikely you'll be pulling any specific combos, and you mainly want to play things to contest the board. Of course your conditional battlecry minions shouldnt be your first priority to play but if you can't play anything else just do it. E.g. I play a lot of priest in wild, and I play Brann Bronzebeard (I know he isnt a conditional battlecry but functions as one) on t3 against aggressive decks just to contest whatever they are playing.
Against slower decks you can be more greedy with your battlecrys as they rarely rush you down.
It's a complex answer and you need to think about other plays, what situation you are in, what decks you are playing against and what deck you are playing.
Edit: A last factor, as Horkinger mentions, is to consider what battlecry you are giving up. He mentions Defender of Argus which you never want to give up against aggressive decks - more or less.
Generally it is probably right to play the minion (which is in particular true for hunter since they have difficulties to come back). But it always depends on the matchup and your role in the matchup, as well as on the alternatives you have.
In an aggro matchup, you want your tempo (meaning stuff on the board to either race or defend yourself against the opponent). Damagin the opponent for 2 is not sufficient, if he has stuff on the board. You will die, even if you get a savannah Highmane next turn and can play it with the razormaw. You just don't have the time to wait for value. In a control matchup, it might be the other way around, so that playing the razormaw might be useless and it would be better to wait for another minion to make it more difficult to remove (more hp, Divine shield, Deathrattle). But razormaw is anyway a card playable without the battlecry. With a Defender of Argus for example I might be more inclined to wait since the tempo gain you get from a sole defender is not great anyway and a double taunt a turn later might save you.
But as I said, it really depends on the specific situation what the right play is. I already experienced all 4 outcomes: I lost because I played something too early, I won because I played something in time without extra value, I lost because I didn't play something in time and I won because I waited for the value.
i'd say it depends on a few factors: 1) the board state and your potential draws - do you need to throw something out there that might soak up some damage, and possibly soften up something, in hopes of drawing an AoE or some other game-extending effect, or that might give you lethal if left alone and followed up with a drawn buff, etc; 2) what you can reasonably expect your opponent to have in hand and how that lines up with the minion or how the minion might influence your opponent's play given what he might be holding (are you throwing it away for nothing? could this bait some removal that then is unavailable for a more important card down the line?); and finally 3) a combination of #1 along with how under-statted the minion is for its cost. of the examples you list, Razormaw has vanilla stats with an upside, so its generally fine to play on curve without a target, and often even later in the game without one. Argent Protector loses 1 stat, and in the type of decks that might run it, it can be right to throw it out on curve as well (later in the game you can always combo it with your hero power if nothing else). Plague Scientist loses 2 stats, so its going to hurt more to throw it out for nothing.
It depends on the decks that you and your opponents are playing. I.e. You're playing as hunter. Hunter suffers from a lack of comeback mechanics so you need board presence or you're screwed. Play the Razormaw on 2 and be happy that you had a two drop. But if you're a Rogue, have a sap in hand, and are playing against a slow deck, then hold on to the Plague Scientist until it can neutralize a big threat.
What your question boils down to is: is board presence more valuable than a battlecry? Each decks reliance on board presence is slightly different. Each matchups reliance on board presence is slightly different. The importance of board presence can even vary within a single game based on what resources you've already exhausted from your opponent, the board state, your hand, etc. Maybe it's not worth it to play a naked Plague Scientist on 3 but it is worth it to play on T8 to combo Vilespine Slayer. There are no hard and fast rules. You just have to learn the matchups, read the opponent/situation, and hope for the best.
If you have a minion that does something beneficial to/for another friendly minion (e.g., Crackling Razormaw or Argent Protector or Plague Scientist), and you have nothing else to do that turn but perhaps use your hero power (say maybe you're out of other cards in your hand and have no minions on the field), what do you do? Do you play that minion and throw away its battlecry? How long do you wait before sucking it up and playing that conditional battlecry minion? (say if you keep drawing spells).
This is the basis behind the 'value' and 'tempo' choices that make up the majority of choices in HS games. The 'value' option would be making the most of your cards, such as making sure those battlecries find targets, while the tempo choice prefers focusing on fighting for the board and using your mana efficiently. This also comes into play when it comes to removal tools: Do you use defile to remove that 1/1 or hold it to try to kill more minions.
The answer: it depends on the situation. The overall question you have to ask is: how am I winning this game?
For example, if you are up against a murloc deck, murloc decks typically lose by losing the board as they want to win by snowballing with buffs between each other. Thus you'll want to focus on winning the tempo game sometimes sacrificing value to do so. If that razormaw played alone means you can knock out a murloc board next turn then you probably will win more than way than holding it and trying to drop two minions while your opponent has 3 murlocs and a warleader slamming your face.
OTOH, if you are against a control deck like, say, a shaman, chances are you aren't going to be able to roll that razormaw into an offensive threat. Thus you are probably better off trying to create a strong board slightly later on that may be able to get past their removal.
THat is, unless the murloc deck is a paladin midrange deck without an early murloc push, thus making you think that it has a strong late game you might need to counter with a strong board and that 3/2 won't cut it. Or else that shaman seems to be more control based and, thus, will be able to easily take down your bigger threats so your only hope might be going aggressive early on with tempo pushes.
So, yes, the answer is NOT easy. This is actually the point where you get past "oh the game is easy, just play the best card." and get into why pro players play thousands of games and stop to think about their turns so that they know instinctively when to play that card early and when to wait.
OMG final note!!!!
There's also a possible question of your deck as well. If youare finding yourself regularly in a situation where you can't regularly get value from those cards, it might be the case that your deck isn't giving you the setup to get that value. For example, if you typically don't have that early game card for your razormaw then you might need to:
1. Add more 1-2 drops so that you not only have more cards to have for razormaw setups but also possible alternatives so you have a play that lets you drop something on the board while holding back the razormaw.
2. consider dropping that battlecry minion and opting instead for a card that gives you more tempo. This is actually why many rogues don't play Plague as they tend to play decks that can't reliably use that battlecry properly.
So that's also a consideration. A good card in a deck that can't use it is a bad card.
If you have a minion that does something beneficial to/for another friendly minion (e.g., Crackling Razormaw or Argent Protector or Plague Scientist), and you have nothing else to do that turn but perhaps use your hero power (say maybe you're out of other cards in your hand and have no minions on the field), what do you do? Do you play that minion and throw away its battlecry? How long do you wait before sucking it up and playing that conditional battlecry minion? (say if you keep drawing spells).
I try not to because the tempo swing when you do draw a minion can be great, It does suck to play these minions for no reason but sometime you just have to. Tech cards aren't too bad to waste if you know your opponent has no weapons or no 1 cost spells ect still feels bad though getting no value.
Yeah this is an eternal dilemma for me too! This is probably one of the things that really separates good players from average ones (and I firmly count myself among the latter!).
Personally it depends on probably 3 things for me - first, what the statline is of the minion (i.e. how much of the mana cost is sunk into the effect); second, how likely I think it is that I'm going to draw a suitable card to use the effect next turn (based on what's left to draw); and how my opponent appears to be playing (i.e. my estimated likelihood that the minion will be immediately killed).
Interested to hear other people's thoughts though!
Depends on your deck and what other options you have, and what deck you are playing against.
As a hunter you generally want to keep up your tempo plays, and if you don't have anything else to play a Crackling Razormaw on t2 is quite okay.
If you play against a very aggressive deck it is unlikely you'll be pulling any specific combos, and you mainly want to play things to contest the board. Of course your conditional battlecry minions shouldnt be your first priority to play but if you can't play anything else just do it. E.g. I play a lot of priest in wild, and I play Brann Bronzebeard (I know he isnt a conditional battlecry but functions as one) on t3 against aggressive decks just to contest whatever they are playing.
Against slower decks you can be more greedy with your battlecrys as they rarely rush you down.
It's a complex answer and you need to think about other plays, what situation you are in, what decks you are playing against and what deck you are playing.
Edit: A last factor, as Horkinger mentions, is to consider what battlecry you are giving up. He mentions Defender of Argus which you never want to give up against aggressive decks - more or less.
Generally it is probably right to play the minion (which is in particular true for hunter since they have difficulties to come back). But it always depends on the matchup and your role in the matchup, as well as on the alternatives you have.
In an aggro matchup, you want your tempo (meaning stuff on the board to either race or defend yourself against the opponent). Damagin the opponent for 2 is not sufficient, if he has stuff on the board. You will die, even if you get a savannah Highmane next turn and can play it with the razormaw. You just don't have the time to wait for value. In a control matchup, it might be the other way around, so that playing the razormaw might be useless and it would be better to wait for another minion to make it more difficult to remove (more hp, Divine shield, Deathrattle). But razormaw is anyway a card playable without the battlecry. With a Defender of Argus for example I might be more inclined to wait since the tempo gain you get from a sole defender is not great anyway and a double taunt a turn later might save you.
But as I said, it really depends on the specific situation what the right play is. I already experienced all 4 outcomes: I lost because I played something too early, I won because I played something in time without extra value, I lost because I didn't play something in time and I won because I waited for the value.
i'd say it depends on a few factors: 1) the board state and your potential draws - do you need to throw something out there that might soak up some damage, and possibly soften up something, in hopes of drawing an AoE or some other game-extending effect, or that might give you lethal if left alone and followed up with a drawn buff, etc; 2) what you can reasonably expect your opponent to have in hand and how that lines up with the minion or how the minion might influence your opponent's play given what he might be holding (are you throwing it away for nothing? could this bait some removal that then is unavailable for a more important card down the line?); and finally 3) a combination of #1 along with how under-statted the minion is for its cost. of the examples you list, Razormaw has vanilla stats with an upside, so its generally fine to play on curve without a target, and often even later in the game without one. Argent Protector loses 1 stat, and in the type of decks that might run it, it can be right to throw it out on curve as well (later in the game you can always combo it with your hero power if nothing else). Plague Scientist loses 2 stats, so its going to hurt more to throw it out for nothing.
"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
It depends on the decks that you and your opponents are playing. I.e. You're playing as hunter. Hunter suffers from a lack of comeback mechanics so you need board presence or you're screwed. Play the Razormaw on 2 and be happy that you had a two drop. But if you're a Rogue, have a sap in hand, and are playing against a slow deck, then hold on to the Plague Scientist until it can neutralize a big threat.
What your question boils down to is: is board presence more valuable than a battlecry? Each decks reliance on board presence is slightly different. Each matchups reliance on board presence is slightly different. The importance of board presence can even vary within a single game based on what resources you've already exhausted from your opponent, the board state, your hand, etc. Maybe it's not worth it to play a naked Plague Scientist on 3 but it is worth it to play on T8 to combo Vilespine Slayer. There are no hard and fast rules. You just have to learn the matchups, read the opponent/situation, and hope for the best.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.