I recorded a replay of a turn that confused me. I played Defile into a board that I knew it wouldn't clear just to be silly before I conceded, but it cleared the board. Can someone please explain to me why it cleared the board? I expected the following to happen:
It looks like the Scavenging Hyena should have survived on 1 Health. Unfortunately, without seeing the actual game it's hard to figure out what the bug is, since any inconsistencies could be in the replay.
It looks like the Scavenging Hyena should have survived on 1 Health. Unfortunately, without seeing the actual game it's hard to figure out what the bug is, since any inconsistencies could be in the replay.
Yeah, the way HS Replay shows the Defile damage and Hyena buffs is strange. In game it all happened so fast that I was left confused looking at the event bar on the left trying to piece together why the Hyena died.
This is why the 'cast it again' line was placed. Most spells only occur once and, even if they have multiple parts, they are considered 'one spell'. Thus the 'deathcheck' that actually kills minions can't occur until the spell ends. This is how Vengeful Wrath can do 1 damage to a hound then do 2 damage to the hyena and still kill it: because the hound doesn't die until after all the shots fall.
Defile literally does just 1 damage.. that's it. NOTHING MORE. It casts, the spell resolves. That allows the deathcheck. Note that we KNOW creatures have to die after this point since Defile literally says it will only cast again IF something dies.
Thus if the fledgling didn't die, how can defile cast again to try to kill the hyena? If the fledgling DID die to trigger the next defile, shouldn't the hyena also trigger at the same time?
No worries. The spell is HARD to get just right. A while ago I had an opponent who had a batch of 3 health creatures, so I dropped a Tainted Zealot then a defile because "zealot + defile = 5 damage!" right?
No. Zealot + defile = 2 damage.. and if something dies then it casts again for another 2 damage, which kills the zealot evoking another cast for 5 damage in all.
So yeah, I ended up with a surviving Zealot and 3 opponents with 1 health. Thankfully I had a Despicable Dreadlord I could play next turn to kill everything and played it off as if I meant to do that. (I think he bought it #theliesyoutellyourself)
In paper CCGs games when multiple effects trigger at the same time by different players, which one happens first depends on whose turn it is, that is probably what happened here, the game applied the 2 death triggers based on who was the active player, and the defile occurred before the hyena's death trigger. Villager is a death rattle and would occur before defile finishes checking, but hyena triggers after the death.
In paper CCGs games when multiple effects trigger at the same time by different players, which one happens first depends on whose turn it is, that is probably what happened here, the game applied the 2 death triggers based on who was the active player, and the defile occurred before the hyena's death trigger. Villager is a death rattle and would occur before defile finishes checking, but hyena triggers after the death.
But in the earlier situation - with the fledgling - the Hyena got buffed first. This reeks of bug to me. When Fledgling dieing buffs the hyena before the next defile cast and Leokk dieing does not, seems buggy.
What earlier situation, all that is there is what the poster expected to happen.
If two effects trigger at the same time, the game does not resolve them simultaneously, it orders them and resolves those effects 1 at a time, you can see this any time you have multiple effects trigger at once. This is the way it works in EVERY card game with a decent rules set by the way, and confuses allot of players of paper CCG's .
If whatever prioritizing system the game is using places the hyena to resolve first it gets the health and survives, if it places the defile first the second defile is cast and hyena dies.
The real question is what is the indented ordering (priority scheme) for how the game should decided what to resolve first.
HSreplays didn't give the hyena the second buff. In fact, it the log is going nuts regarding defile, saying that the villager died multiple times and that the hyena was given +1/1 from the defile (huh?)
I think replays isn't handling the defile mechanic very well.
Here's a question.. are you sure the hyena died in game and not just on the replay? It could be that the hyena lived in the game but the replay is listing it as dead.
(just checking to be sure) Otherwise, it's a bug for sure.
Here's a question.. are you sure the hyena died in game and not just on the replay? It could be that the hyena lived in the game but the replay is listing it as dead.
(just checking to be sure) Otherwise, it's a bug for sure.
The Hyena 100% died in the actual game. The replay just shows everything kinda awkwardly.
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https://hsreplay.net/replay/xvq2v3dLkqbJcVaqHTYj7c#turn=6b
I recorded a replay of a turn that confused me. I played Defile into a board that I knew it wouldn't clear just to be silly before I conceded, but it cleared the board. Can someone please explain to me why it cleared the board? I expected the following to happen:
Am I misunderstanding something, or is this a bug? Thanks.
Death effects trigger between each cast of the spell so the buffing of the hyena resolves before the next instance of the spell casts.
It looks like the Scavenging Hyena should have survived on 1 Health. Unfortunately, without seeing the actual game it's hard to figure out what the bug is, since any inconsistencies could be in the replay.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
This is why the 'cast it again' line was placed. Most spells only occur once and, even if they have multiple parts, they are considered 'one spell'. Thus the 'deathcheck' that actually kills minions can't occur until the spell ends. This is how Vengeful Wrath can do 1 damage to a hound then do 2 damage to the hyena and still kill it: because the hound doesn't die until after all the shots fall.
Defile literally does just 1 damage.. that's it. NOTHING MORE. It casts, the spell resolves. That allows the deathcheck. Note that we KNOW creatures have to die after this point since Defile literally says it will only cast again IF something dies.
Thus if the fledgling didn't die, how can defile cast again to try to kill the hyena? If the fledgling DID die to trigger the next defile, shouldn't the hyena also trigger at the same time?
No worries. The spell is HARD to get just right. A while ago I had an opponent who had a batch of 3 health creatures, so I dropped a Tainted Zealot then a defile because "zealot + defile = 5 damage!" right?
No. Zealot + defile = 2 damage.. and if something dies then it casts again for another 2 damage, which kills the zealot evoking another cast for 5 damage in all.
So yeah, I ended up with a surviving Zealot and 3 opponents with 1 health. Thankfully I had a Despicable Dreadlord I could play next turn to kill everything and played it off as if I meant to do that. (I think he bought it #theliesyoutellyourself)
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
In paper CCGs games when multiple effects trigger at the same time by different players, which one happens first depends on whose turn it is, that is probably what happened here, the game applied the 2 death triggers based on who was the active player, and the defile occurred before the hyena's death trigger. Villager is a death rattle and would occur before defile finishes checking, but hyena triggers after the death.
I see it now. Defile casts one extra time in the replay. Looks like a bug. Report it.
WAIT A #)$#( MINUTE!!!
I found the problem.
HSreplays didn't give the hyena the second buff. In fact, it the log is going nuts regarding defile, saying that the villager died multiple times and that the hyena was given +1/1 from the defile (huh?)
I think replays isn't handling the defile mechanic very well.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Seems like a bug to me. Every game is full of them just waiting to be discovered.
"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
Here's a question.. are you sure the hyena died in game and not just on the replay? It could be that the hyena lived in the game but the replay is listing it as dead.
(just checking to be sure) Otherwise, it's a bug for sure.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.