Hearthpwn

Quote from Tykaine >>

Quote from richard1234567891011 >>

Because the Naga's discount like it works now is it not a bug?

 Brode said they are aware that Naga Sea Witch decks are seeing higher activity, and it is not a bug.

Sneaky change though. I never saw any mention of it anywhere, why change a random obscure card like this? I'm sure before the change most people didn't know this card even existed, haha. Not that I'm complaining.

it's a meme, it's veeeery rewardng when you pull it off but without tutors or card draw you can easily have your naga seawitch in the bottom of yolour deck while dead drawing into giants

Quote from Infirc >>

it's a meme, it's veeeery rewardng when you pull it off but without tutors or card draw you can easily have your naga seawitch in the bottom of yolour deck while dead drawing into giants

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

Quote from Infirc >>

it's a meme, it's veeeery rewardng when you pull it off but without tutors or card draw you can easily have your naga seawitch in the bottom of yolour deck while dead drawing into giants

 Shouldn't be a problem for warlocks (hero power), hunters (tracking) and druid (ramp / nourish + UI).

 

Quote from Infirc >>

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

Quote from Infirc >>

it's a meme, it's veeeery rewardng when you pull it off but without tutors or card draw you can easily have your naga seawitch in the bottom of yolour deck while dead drawing into giants

 Shouldn't be a problem for warlocks (hero power), hunters (tracking) and druid (ramp / nourish + UI).

 

 you could as easily dead draw the giants long before you play UI allowing opponents to play more aggresively

you could as Easily toss away 1-4 giants when using tracking for the Seawitch,

and you could as easily jsut die as warlock while spending massive amounts of  life tapping to a seawitch and as with Druid this allows your opponent to be more agressive plus you'd also be dead drawing giants.

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

Quote from Infirc >>

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

Quote from Infirc >>

it's a meme, it's veeeery rewardng when you pull it off but without tutors or card draw you can easily have your naga seawitch in the bottom of yolour deck while dead drawing into giants

 Shouldn't be a problem for warlocks (hero power), hunters (tracking) and druid (ramp / nourish + UI).

 

 you could as easily dead draw the giants long before you play UI allowing opponents to play more aggresively

you could as Easily toss away 1-4 giants when using tracking for the Seawitch,

and you could as easily jsut die as warlock while spending massive amounts of  life tapping to a seawitch and as with Druid this allows your opponent to be more agressive plus you'd also be dead drawing giants.

 We can use stat-trek to help us: http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/hypergeometric.aspx

We assume we cycle through 20 cards (which is fairly easy). We assume we need 1 or greater success with naga, from 20 cards:  89% of drawing. That's pretty decent.

But of course we know this, because if your logic was true then decks like freeze mage (or combo decks in general) could never work, but they often do.

Discards from tracking is irrelevant, the hunter version isn't planning on going through the entire deck and rarely needs to. Discards only matter in games that go to fatigue, until then you are discarding unknowns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. you simply don't run enough minion generation to Play Sea Giant
2. Your opponent will never have enough cards on their hand to let you play Clockwork Giant
3. You'll be basically dead when you are able to play Molten Giant
4. there's simply not enough deckspace for enough spells in this kind of deck   to play Arcane Giant, 
5. You'll be long dead before playing Frost Giant
6. You'd need to run too many gimicky overload cards to play Snowfury Giant
7. you can't play Mountain Giant unless you are a warlock lifetapping and basically passing your first 4 turns.

Quote from Infirc >>

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

Quote from Infirc >>

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

Quote from Infirc >>

it's a meme, it's veeeery rewardng when you pull it off but without tutors or card draw you can easily have your naga seawitch in the bottom of yolour deck while dead drawing into giants

 Shouldn't be a problem for warlocks (hero power), hunters (tracking) and druid (ramp / nourish + UI).

 

 you could as easily dead draw the giants long before you play UI allowing opponents to play more aggresively

you could as Easily toss away 1-4 giants when using tracking for the Seawitch,

and you could as easily jsut die as warlock while spending massive amounts of  life tapping to a seawitch and as with Druid this allows your opponent to be more agressive plus you'd also be dead drawing giants.

 We can use stat-trek to help us: http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/hypergeometric.aspx

We assume we cycle through 20 cards (which is fairly easy). We assume we need 1 or greater success with naga, from 20 cards:  89% of drawing. That's pretty decent.

But of course we know this, because if your logic was true then decks like freeze mage (or combo decks in general) could never work, but they often do.

Discards from tracking is irrelevant, the hunter version isn't planning on going through the entire deck and rarely needs to. Discards only matter in games that go to fatigue, until then you are discarding unknowns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 yes but games only go to fatigue if you are not killed first, it''s  a very slow plan with individual pieces that for the msot part can't be summoned or don't work by their own, the reason Freeze mage and the combo decks that have made it into competitive play work is because their pieces work by themselves and are good enough by themselves in case of emergencies, but most giants aren't since most giants require their own sinergy to work, snergies which are completely unexistant in these type of Naga decks because;

Without naga:

1. you simply don't run enough minion generation to Play Sea Giant
2. Your opponent will never have enough cards on their hand to let you play Clockwork Giant
3. You'll be basically dead when you are able to play Molten Giant
4. there's simply not enough deckspace for enough spells in this kind of deck   to play Arcane Giant, 
5. You'll be long dead before playing Frost Giant
6. You'd need to run too many gimicky overload cards to play Snowfury Giant
7. you can't play Mountain Giant unless you are a warlock lifetapping and basically passing your first 4 turns.

 

 

The pros are calling for naga to be reverted back. Wild is broken now and as bad as tavern brawl. Ben Brode himself is "watching" naga and hopefully will revert this buff no one asked for.

I have been playing the Naga Sea Witch, Bright-Eyed Scout & giant package all week with every class other than Druid. The best performing classes were Hunter, Rogue & Priest.

A couple things to note:

• It's not played very much. Most likely due to the deck being half epic cards.
• The meta has two highly represented counters to giant turns with Paladin & Priest.
• Control Warlock is a huge loser in this as they never have an answer to a giant turn before turn-8.
• A few decks can kill you before turn-5.

Overall I do fell the current Naga interaction is bad for the game moving forward. Here are some highlights from the week.

I myself playtesting Demon Giants Handlock that Clickpwn made and it is absolutely nuts. Warlock can use molten and mountain better than any class since you hurt yourself while tapping and you can play mountain even without Naga. 

Also the best answer to giants is shadowflame one of your giants and then it is pretty much gg. I didn't lose any game from rank 10 to 6 and from 6 to 5 with 2 loses.

The demon package and Warlock DK are another win condition. You have better clears than other classes with hellfire, shadowflame and with good setup, defile. Voidcallers are super good with bringing on demons and if you bring malganis it is gg for aggro decks.

Quote from Heeljin >>

I have been playing the Naga Sea Witch, Bright-Eyed Scout & giant package all week with every class other than Druid. The best performing classes were Hunter, Rogue & Priest.

i just can't believe this, this combo is absolute BS, i'm speechless.... so now a turn 5 29/29 on board is fair? yeah sure, you won't pull it off every turn but it's really unfair when you do.

2 classes can counter it yeah, good to know for the rest.

Time to play gwent i guess

Quote from WickedAiken >>

i just can't believe this, this combo is absolute BS, i'm speechless.... so now a turn 5 29/29 on board is fair? yeah sure, you won't pull it off every turn but it's really unfair when you do.

2 classes can counter it yeah, good to know for the rest.

Time to play gwent i guess

I will just add this, as I was pretty negative earlier in the thread - I like that Blizzard revisited an old card and actually buffed something, a card that never really saw any play at all. This is good, but they kinda dove right in deep here and created a single card that created new but similar highly powerful decks across different classes. Maybe start smaller?

Quote from WickedAiken >>

i just can't believe this, this combo is absolute BS, i'm speechless.... so now a turn 5 29/29 on board is fair? yeah sure, you won't pull it off every turn but it's really unfair when you do.

2 classes can counter it yeah, good to know for the rest.

Time to play gwent i guess

I guess it's op and broken but a lot of things in wild are op and broken, so it's fine.

Quote from WickedAiken >>

i just can't believe this, this combo is absolute BS, i'm speechless.... so now a turn 5 29/29 on board is fair? yeah sure, you won't pull it off every turn but it's really unfair when you do.

2 classes can counter it yeah, good to know for the rest.

Time to play gwent i guess

Quote from Wurstfett >>

Quote from WickedAiken >>

i just can't believe this, this combo is absolute BS, i'm speechless.... so now a turn 5 29/29 on board is fair? yeah sure, you won't pull it off every turn but it's really unfair when you do.

2 classes can counter it yeah, good to know for the rest.

Time to play gwent i guess

 Warlock: 8 attack minion + Shadowflame

Pala: Equality + Pyro

Control Warrior: Brawl

Mage: Doomsayer + Frost Nova

Priest: Lightbomb

Any aggro deck: Kill enemy hero

So yes, only two classes can counter this -.- ...

I don't understand why they even did this to Naga Sea Witch.  When they nerfed quest rogue, they said they did it because they didn't like the idea of everyone abusing a decklist for power level and they wanted to see a diverse range of decks.  Basically that quest rogue was forcing out control decks and forcing everyone to play aggro decks because they were better against quest rogue.  Now they change a card like sea witch.  And even when they know everyone is exploiting how it works with giant cards, they to bury their shit when people ask "what the hell were you thinking?".  Now wild is basically a sea of giant decks (no pun intended) from a variety of classes, or decks that are perfect counters to it.  That is not what exploring decklist building is about.  Giant mechanics have always been about meeting a certain requirement to play out (mountain giant if you have enough cards in your hand, for example.  The ability to play 6 giants from your hand on turn 5 just because you have one of two naga sea witches in your hand is hardly a requirement, it's an exploit.  I have both played this deck and played against it, and it just feels cheesy (to quote other replies)  I'm not saying that HS should be perfectly balanced, but this is obviously bad for the game and creates a Red vs. Blue aspect.  They're basically discouraging creativity in deckbuilding with this type of change.

From my experience, Hunter works really well since it has enough "tutor" cards to make it happen. While (IMO, of course), this is not good for the game, it actually gives Hunter another way to play and that's a good thing.