If you feel frustrated with Hearthstone, you aren't alone.
The following I say with the utmost of respect for the path Hearthstone carved out in the online card game space. This is coming from a person who has spent countless hours playing Hearthstone as well as dollars well into the hundreds and quite possibly approaching the thousand mark. I have also won 300$ from a local tournament.
Compared to other online card games Hearthstone is beginning to show its age, a pack every two days with highly conditional and time consuming quests is damn near archaic when compared to games such as Gwent: The Witcher Card Game, Elder Scrolls: Legends, and Shadowverse. Blizzard has taken only baby steps to resolve this issue. First by introducing tavern brawl for a pack a week as well as rare handouts such as the Lich King solo adventure. Its nice, but not in the hands of the player and not enough.
With how quickly Hearthstone gets old after each expansion the asking price of hearthstone is far too high, not to mention the very self aware fact of just how simplistic it is.
The free to play experience needs to improve significantly. Doubling the gold received from quests or near doubling at least is the clear and simple answer to this issue. With a significantly improved free to play experience all of a sudden the asking price is not nearly as bad, and Hearthstone's shortcomings are forgiven. Given this was Blizzard's first real venture into free to play territory its understandable that there could be some improvements to be had.
It's easy to see Blizzard hopes to be making Hearthstone sets for as long as there are people willing to buy them. I think it's safe to say Blizzard and their enthusiastic player base would be delighted to see Hearthstone survive for decades to come. As things stand right now it's far too easy to grow frustrated and just flat out bored with the game far too quickly. If you don't see what I'm saying then you probably haven't experienced some of Hearthstones more salty players, outspoken Twitch regulars, and the overwhelming sense of monotony that sets in quickly after the meta is figured out. I came to this realization during Ungoro's meta which I felt was actually quite healthy overall.
We as the player base have a vested interest in Hearthstone and the ability to stand up and speak with our wallets. By the time the next expansion comes around and if you are as frustrated with Hearthstone as I am I ask you to please join me in boycott. Thank you.
*EDIT* I wanted to add some number crunching I did. It probably isn't perfect but please check my numbers if you are concerned and I'll update this section accordingly.
Lets talk numbers shall we: Let's assume you need around 75% of the card base to really enjoy the full Hearthstone experience. I think that's a fair number if you want a playable deck for every class, as of course not all cards are playable or worthwhile. In this standard format there are about 636 cards total, and 75% of that is about 477 cards. Approx. 60 of which would be legendaries and approx. 80 of them would be epics. Assuming you get 1 legendary every 17 packs (to account for free packs from tavern brawl+gold per 3 wins) alone that's a whopping 1,020 packs required. That's $1,190 not including free rewards using the $69.99 per 60 packs purchase option. Keep in mind this is only 75%of the full card baseforstandard and at a rate of 1 legendary per 17 packs to account for free packs from tavern brawl and gold per 3 wins. To earn that many packs would take 510 days at the current rate of a pack every two days on average. That's a full year and a half of playing every single day if you are just starting. Lets say you buy the $50 pack deal before an expansion and spend another $50 for 90 packs in total purchased, and that you already have all that you want from the base set taking into account Hall of Fame legendaries. That brings the total amount of packs required to 663 and for the full hearthstone experience if you are earning the rest of the packs on your own to approximately *EDIT* In order to account for dust I'm taking an additional 25% off the amount of time required *EDIT*248 days. Two thirds of a full year. That's absolutely absurd, and you would still be grinding for packs well into the next expansion. I understand this doesn't take into account arena, and some people play only play once every 3 days but its not like the number of days required isn't already abhorrently excessive. Ask yourself, do you really enjoy Hearthstone that much or is it only fair that Blizzard made the free to play experience a little better?
The porblem with f2p experience ia dusting. Gaining 1/4 dust you disencahnt is very bad. I remember my first times, first legendary i opened was milhouse and man i was very sad.
Gwent has a similar 1/4 scrap disenchant value, but - if I remember correctly - the crafting cost on cards is lower, plus they have more free packs in general.
And that's a bad thing. I started Gwent around 3 weeks before the end of closed beta, which didn't last very long, and I was completely overwhelmed with beefy and greedy decks, that you can't really counter. The real issue with making a game more f2p friendly will result in more people having ultragreedy decks which will lower new player entry experience.
I happily drop $100 on each expansion and feel like I get my money for it. So I can't relate.
Except for the druid problem, but it isn't as bad in Wild where I spend most of my time.
Likewise, hope they fix druid soon and hope quest mage doesn't dominate after that. Other than that, Un'goro was loads of fun. I have made almost 3k gold since expansion release, you can grind your 100 gold in casual mode with really aggressive decks, it doesn't take long at all, I actually did it with 100% win rate yesterday. That's 30 next expansion packs in just over 2 weeks with minimal effort. Imo F2P players should have to spend a long, long time getting most of the cards they want, it shouldn't just be handed to you on a plate, that would be a huge kick in the teeth to those who pay.
Gwent has a similar 1/4 scrap disenchant value, but - if I remember correctly - the crafting cost on cards is lower, plus they have more free packs in general.
And that's a bad thing. I started Gwent around 3 weeks before the end of closed beta, which didn't last very long, and I was completely overwhelmed with beefy and greedy decks, that you can't really counter. The real issue with making a game more f2p friendly will result in more people having ultragreedy decks which will lower new player entry experience.
Thats really not the case at all, Ultra greedy decks just isnt the case at all, Look at the meta and all previous metas, None of them were dominated by "ultra greedy" decks or super expensive decks, Sure there we some and still is some that contain and ton of legendaries but to say people having access to cards will result in ultra greedy decks isnt true at all, The simple truth is if the best decks in hearthstone cost 100 dust to craft those will be the decks you see flooding the ladder and that doesnt matter if you have every single legendary in the game its not the most expensive deck that is played its simply the best decks regardless of dust cost.
Jade druid isnt the most expensive to craft, Evolve shaman, Pirate warrior, Not overly expensive decks but i see more of those decks than i do for example highlander priest that runs anything from 3 to 6 legendaries or big priest again running alot of legendaries or even paladin decks again running alot of legendaries, This will always remain the case where deck power is more important than deck cost so you'll never see ultra greedy decks when cheaper decks simply dominate them.
I dont know anything about Gwent never played it maybe in that game ultra greedy decks are a thing but in hearthstone they simply arent a thing, Sometimes yes you have decks that cost alot of dust to craft that are viable and strong like highlander priest is this meta but then you'll have cheaper decks that are as good and better like pirate warrior and jade druid, Or the old days of face hunters or zoolocks very cheap decks but super affective in what they did, Maybe in Gwent the more expensive cards are actually the best cards so are needed but in hearthstone i dont remember a single meta where that was the case, Correct me if im wrong but has there ever been a meta where a cheaper deck hasnt been atleast top end tier 2 or tier 1 because i really dont recall one.
I spend a lot of money on this game, and I've only felt disappointed after karazhan and mean streets, which is when I switched to wild. Jade isn't as good there, and decks don't dominate so aggressively. Go have fun in wild, it's a great time. There are multiple options for a reason
Oh please stop whining. I'm completely f2p and I have more than 90% on the Wild collection. I have all adventures bought for gold, all essential legendaries. As for KFT expansion - since release I played only arenas - now I have 10 legendaries and a bit of epics, all commons, and missing 10 rares, and about 7k of dust for crafting. I played about 100 arenas since KFT release bought only for gold and now I have 7900 gold remaining.
So please, better address issue regarding balance, "synergy picks" in arena or unfair card distribution among classes.
Problem is that game is already stale, druids and stupid ass priests, so who cares. Until they introduce more game mods, achievement system and more changes, game will become boring few weeks after expansion.
Sometimes it feels like people don't understand that Blizzard is a company. They need to earn money for this to work around, and boycotting will probaly make the issue worse, since Blizzard is already making less money, since more people are leaving.
It's a troubling topic, as we have few ways of actually acting towards Blizzard. And most of the common ideas include boycotting.
What would make more sense, and probaly more realistic, would be making changes to the dust system, and pack types.
The arcane Dust system is currently undervalued. One fourth for Epics and Legendaries, a fifth for Rares and a whopping eigth for commons are a problem. Blizzard should severly consider rearranging these numbers. Maybe making it a fourth baseline for Rares and Commons aswell. Meaning you would get 25 dust for rares, 200 dust for Golden Rares, 10 dust for commons, and 100 dust for Golden Commons.
Another possible change, that isen't suicide for Blizzard, would be making the option to buy different quality of packs. Like a 100 coin pack, that gives you 15 commons. Or a 1000 Coin pack that gives you 4 Epics and a Legendary baseline, with the option to roll more legendaries.
I argee ,you cant disargee with one thing even with pre purchasing the 50 pack that cost Triple A game only earn you like 20% of cards to play with and to think a new player only gets like 20 packs to play with is painful and grindy
And to people who say that f2p player and have alot of cards almost full collection i have to ask you how much time have you spent non stop grinding? its a painful experience especially for in ranked. the problem is that if you were to grind you way up these deck and pack and actually invest time into this you would bored at least in slightest even for the long term hardcore player.Not even comparing this new players when they pick up this game imagine wanting to build some fun deck but was told to invest lots of money just to be able or have to grind days and weeks, it will just make them leave.
And for people who say other card games are expensive like mtg . i say at least the resell value hearthstone doesn't
Im not asking for just to straight up give us a free packs and gold. however as of now the quest system for gold need to be check on because nowadays deck are expensive and budget deck dont feel budget but a shittier ver of the average deck
EDIT: however recently there been free adventure and no dup legendary Hurray to that
I argee ,you cant disargee with one thing even with pre purchasing the 50 pack that cost Triple A game only earn you like 20% of cards to play with and to think a new player only gets like 20 packs to play with is painful and grindy
And to people who say that f2p player and have alot of cards almost full collection i have to ask you how much time have you spent non stop grinding? its a painful experience especially for in ranked. the problem is that if you were to grind you way up these deck and pack and actually invest time into this you would bored at least in slightest even for the long term hardcore player.Not even comparing this new players when they pick up this game imagine wanting to build some fun deck but was told to invest lots of money just to be able or have to grind days and weeks, it will just make them leave.
And for people who say other card games are expensive like mtg . i say at least the resell value hearthstone doesn't
Im not asking for just to straight up give us a free packs and gold. however as of now the quest system for gold need to be check on because nowadays deck are expensive and budget deck dont feel budget but a shittier ver of the average deck
Absolutely fantastic points, I felt like this post needed to be stressed.
IMO the meta is bad and stale precisely b/c of the cost of HS. When most players just save 5-10 k for the upcoming expansion they get enough dust for maybe 1-2 new meta decks . They wait 2 weeks, craft the top meta cancers and play it for half year. How do we expect versatility when most players don't have big collections? OFC they'll play the most powerful decks over and over and over....just b/c the majority can't / don't wanna spend real money or can't / don't wanna play HS for 6+ hours a day. Can we really blame the players on that ?
Oh please stop whining. I'm completely f2p and I have more than 90% on the Wild collection. I have all adventures bought for gold, all essential legendaries. As for KFT expansion - since release I played only arenas - now I have 10 legendaries and a bit of epics, all commons, and missing 10 rares, and about 7k of dust for crafting. I played about 100 arenas since KFT release bought only for gold and now I have 7900 gold remaining.
So please, better address issue regarding balance, "synergy picks" in arena or unfair card distribution among classes.
People that have obviously been playing from day one like yourself are not the ones that are being mentioned here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm here to kick ass and play cards, and I'm all out of ass.
Sometimes it feels like people don't understand that Blizzard is a company. They need to earn money for this to work around, and boycotting will probaly make the issue worse, since Blizzard is already making less money, since more people are leaving.
It's a troubling topic, as we have few ways of actually acting towards Blizzard. And most of the common ideas include boycotting.
What would make more sense, and probaly more realistic, would be making changes to the dust system, and pack types.
The arcane Dust system is currently undervalued. One fourth for Epics and Legendaries, a fifth for Rares and a whopping eigth for commons are a problem. Blizzard should severly consider rearranging these numbers. Maybe making it a fourth baseline for Rares and Commons aswell. Meaning you would get 25 dust for rares, 200 dust for Golden Rares, 10 dust for commons, and 100 dust for Golden Commons.
Another possible change, that isen't suicide for Blizzard, would be making the option to buy different quality of packs. Like a 100 coin pack, that gives you 15 commons. Or a 1000 Coin pack that gives you 4 Epics and a Legendary baseline, with the option to roll more legendaries.
Sounds pretty solid. Another possibility is just adding a 6th card to each pack and maybe bumping it up to 2 rares per pack. Minimum pack value increases from 40 to 60, better rarity cards drop 20% more often. Problem should be solved at that point. OR, they could just do everything you said and what I mentioned because they keep fucking printing mandatory legendaries and tons of people are leaving because they can't afford to play anything other than pirate warrior. I've been playing Hearthstone since a day before wing 2 of blackrock came out and I have gotten just a little over 30 legendaries from my packs, 6 of them dropped in the past 3 weeks. I've been playing Shadowverse for 4 months and I've gotten over 40 legendaries. There's something wrong with this picture.
It would be wise of blizzard to lessen the pack greed. Making it so no duplicate legendaries drop was a great change, but it doesn't help when you still need to wait 20-40 days between getting each one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm here to kick ass and play cards, and I'm all out of ass.
First by introducing tavern brawl for a pack a week as well as rare handouts such as the Lich King solo adventure. Its nice, but not in the hands of the player and not enough.
Just came here to give you some friendly information. The above is not true. This is what happened since the beginning:
First they introduced the "10 gold for 3 wins"
Then they introduced quests that were 40 gold each except one that was 100 gold.
Then Tavern Brawls = Cirka 1 pack/week
Then the "End of month reward"
Then they improved the quests to 40-100 gold while also including "Spectate a friendly win 1 pack quest" and the "Challenge a friend 80 gold quest."
Then they started introducing free packs by guessing the winner of global Hearthstone tournaments.
Then they started giving away the Adventures for each of the coming expansions for free while also giving away free packs when defeating the foes in the adventures.
The end! (Or to be continued maybe?) There could be more permanent changes coming. Over the years there have also been quite many free things that happened once and then never again like the Ragneros-week or the C'thun log-in rewards.
Oh please stop whining. I'm completely f2p and I have more than 90% on the Wild collection. I have all adventures bought for gold, all essential legendaries. As for KFT expansion - since release I played only arenas - now I have 10 legendaries and a bit of epics, all commons, and missing 10 rares, and about 7k of dust for crafting. I played about 100 arenas since KFT release bought only for gold and now I have 7900 gold remaining.
So please, better address issue regarding balance, "synergy picks" in arena or unfair card distribution among classes.
Okay but you are a hardcore player that at least started playing from naxx its unfair to say it totally possible for some average joe to get this far.Sure its possible but it will take very long and i dont think new player has the time to wait for the good stuff of the game (also arena is invalid here since it take a good player to get wins and dont think new player can comprehend that)
If you feel frustrated with Hearthstone, you aren't alone.
The following I say with the utmost of respect for the path Hearthstone carved out in the online card game space. This is coming from a person who has spent countless hours playing Hearthstone as well as dollars well into the hundreds and quite possibly approaching the thousand mark. I have also won 300$ from a local tournament.
Compared to other online card games Hearthstone is beginning to show its age, a pack every two days with highly conditional and time consuming quests is damn near archaic when compared to games such as Gwent: The Witcher Card Game, Elder Scrolls: Legends, and Shadowverse. Blizzard has taken only baby steps to resolve this issue. First by introducing tavern brawl for a pack a week as well as rare handouts such as the Lich King solo adventure. Its nice, but not in the hands of the player and not enough.
With how quickly Hearthstone gets old after each expansion the asking price of hearthstone is far too high, not to mention the very self aware fact of just how simplistic it is.
The free to play experience needs to improve significantly. Doubling the gold received from quests or near doubling at least is the clear and simple answer to this issue. With a significantly improved free to play experience all of a sudden the asking price is not nearly as bad, and Hearthstone's shortcomings are forgiven. Given this was Blizzard's first real venture into free to play territory its understandable that there could be some improvements to be had.
It's easy to see Blizzard hopes to be making Hearthstone sets for as long as there are people willing to buy them. I think it's safe to say Blizzard and their enthusiastic player base would be delighted to see Hearthstone survive for decades to come. As things stand right now it's far too easy to grow frustrated and just flat out bored with the game far too quickly. If you don't see what I'm saying then you probably haven't experienced some of Hearthstones more salty players, outspoken Twitch regulars, and the overwhelming sense of monotony that sets in quickly after the meta is figured out. I came to this realization during Ungoro's meta which I felt was actually quite healthy overall.
We as the player base have a vested interest in Hearthstone and the ability to stand up and speak with our wallets. By the time the next expansion comes around and if you are as frustrated with Hearthstone as I am I ask you to please join me in boycott. Thank you.
*EDIT* I wanted to add some number crunching I did. It probably isn't perfect but please check my numbers if you are concerned and I'll update this section accordingly.
Lets talk numbers shall we:
Let's assume you need around 75% of the card base to really enjoy the full Hearthstone experience. I think that's a fair number if you want a playable deck for every class, as of course not all cards are playable or worthwhile. In this standard format there are about 636 cards total, and 75% of that is about 477 cards. Approx. 60 of which would be legendaries and approx. 80 of them would be epics. Assuming you get 1 legendary every 17 packs (to account for free packs from tavern brawl+gold per 3 wins) alone that's a whopping 1,020 packs required. That's $1,190 not including free rewards using the $69.99 per 60 packs purchase option. Keep in mind this is only 75% of the full card base for standard and at a rate of 1 legendary per 17 packs to account for free packs from tavern brawl and gold per 3 wins. To earn that many packs would take 510 days at the current rate of a pack every two days on average. That's a full year and a half of playing every single day if you are just starting. Lets say you buy the $50 pack deal before an expansion and spend another $50 for 90 packs in total purchased, and that you already have all that you want from the base set taking into account Hall of Fame legendaries. That brings the total amount of packs required to 663 and for the full hearthstone experience if you are earning the rest of the packs on your own to approximately *EDIT* In order to account for dust I'm taking an additional 25% off the amount of time required *EDIT* 248 days. Two thirds of a full year. That's absolutely absurd, and you would still be grinding for packs well into the next expansion. I understand this doesn't take into account arena, and some people play only play once every 3 days but its not like the number of days required isn't already abhorrently excessive. Ask yourself, do you really enjoy Hearthstone that much or is it only fair that Blizzard made the free to play experience a little better?
The porblem with f2p experience ia dusting. Gaining 1/4 dust you disencahnt is very bad. I remember my first times, first legendary i opened was milhouse and man i was very sad.
Gwent has a similar 1/4 scrap disenchant value, but - if I remember correctly - the crafting cost on cards is lower, plus they have more free packs in general.
And that's a bad thing. I started Gwent around 3 weeks before the end of closed beta, which didn't last very long, and I was completely overwhelmed with beefy and greedy decks, that you can't really counter. The real issue with making a game more f2p friendly will result in more people having ultragreedy decks which will lower new player entry experience.
I've no clue what I'm doing...
What is wrong with greedy decks?
I happily drop $100 on each expansion and feel like I get my money for it. So I can't relate.
Except for the druid problem, but it isn't as bad in Wild where I spend most of my time.
Silly player!
Making this thread assuming Blizzard gives two shits or even a single fuck what the players think.
MTG says hello.
I spend a lot of money on this game, and I've only felt disappointed after karazhan and mean streets, which is when I switched to wild. Jade isn't as good there, and decks don't dominate so aggressively. Go have fun in wild, it's a great time. There are multiple options for a reason
Oh please stop whining. I'm completely f2p and I have more than 90% on the Wild collection. I have all adventures bought for gold, all essential legendaries. As for KFT expansion - since release I played only arenas - now I have 10 legendaries and a bit of epics, all commons, and missing 10 rares, and about 7k of dust for crafting. I played about 100 arenas since KFT release bought only for gold and now I have 7900 gold remaining.
So please, better address issue regarding balance, "synergy picks" in arena or unfair card distribution among classes.
My arena stats!
Problem is that game is already stale, druids and stupid ass priests, so who cares. Until they introduce more game mods, achievement system and more changes, game will become boring few weeks after expansion.
Sometimes it feels like people don't understand that Blizzard is a company. They need to earn money for this to work around, and boycotting will probaly make the issue worse, since Blizzard is already making less money, since more people are leaving.
It's a troubling topic, as we have few ways of actually acting towards Blizzard. And most of the common ideas include boycotting.
What would make more sense, and probaly more realistic, would be making changes to the dust system, and pack types.
The arcane Dust system is currently undervalued. One fourth for Epics and Legendaries, a fifth for Rares and a whopping eigth for commons are a problem. Blizzard should severly consider rearranging these numbers. Maybe making it a fourth baseline for Rares and Commons aswell. Meaning you would get 25 dust for rares, 200 dust for Golden Rares, 10 dust for commons, and 100 dust for Golden Commons.
Another possible change, that isen't suicide for Blizzard, would be making the option to buy different quality of packs. Like a 100 coin pack, that gives you 15 commons. Or a 1000 Coin pack that gives you 4 Epics and a Legendary baseline, with the option to roll more legendaries.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
I argee ,you cant disargee with one thing even with pre purchasing the 50 pack that cost Triple A game only earn you like 20% of cards to play with and to think a new player only gets like 20 packs to play with is painful and grindy
And to people who say that f2p player and have alot of cards almost full collection i have to ask you how much time have you spent non stop grinding? its a painful experience especially for in ranked. the problem is that if you were to grind you way up these deck and pack and actually invest time into this you would bored at least in slightest even for the long term hardcore player.Not even comparing this new players when they pick up this game imagine wanting to build some fun deck but was told to invest lots of money just to be able or have to grind days and weeks, it will just make them leave.
And for people who say other card games are expensive like mtg . i say at least the resell value hearthstone doesn't
Im not asking for just to straight up give us a free packs and gold. however as of now the quest system for gold need to be check on because nowadays deck are expensive and budget deck dont feel budget but a shittier ver of the average deck
EDIT: however recently there been free adventure and no dup legendary Hurray to that
IMO the meta is bad and stale precisely b/c of the cost of HS. When most players just save 5-10 k for the upcoming expansion they get enough dust for maybe 1-2 new meta decks . They wait 2 weeks, craft the top meta cancers and play it for half year. How do we expect versatility when most players don't have big collections? OFC they'll play the most powerful decks over and over and over....just b/c the majority can't / don't wanna spend real money or can't / don't wanna play HS for 6+ hours a day. Can we really blame the players on that ?
I'm here to kick ass and play cards, and I'm all out of ass.
I'm here to kick ass and play cards, and I'm all out of ass.
Just came here to give you some friendly information. The above is not true. This is what happened since the beginning:
First they introduced the "10 gold for 3 wins"
Then they introduced quests that were 40 gold each except one that was 100 gold.
Then Tavern Brawls = Cirka 1 pack/week
Then the "End of month reward"
Then they improved the quests to 40-100 gold while also including "Spectate a friendly win 1 pack quest" and the "Challenge a friend 80 gold quest."
Then they started introducing free packs by guessing the winner of global Hearthstone tournaments.
Then they started giving away the Adventures for each of the coming expansions for free while also giving away free packs when defeating the foes in the adventures.
The end! (Or to be continued maybe?) There could be more permanent changes coming. Over the years there have also been quite many free things that happened once and then never again like the Ragneros-week or the C'thun log-in rewards.