Hearthpwn

I wish the OP wasn't so dumb, because he does have some solid points.

Druid current strengths:

Consistent, strong drops. Where other decks have to worry about top-decking a 1 drop minion on 10 mana, Jade Druids never top deck a small minion, as their minions grow as the game progresses.

Amazing card draw. 10 mana to draw a sixth of their deck isn't so bad, when every other effect of the card is amazing at keeping tempo.

Great survivability. Blizzard clearly forgot how good Sludge Belcher used to be. Because Primordial Drake is an insane taunt minion. And on top of that, Druids can summon as many 3/7s as you have minions.

Can't be fatigued. Not unless the enemy runs a Skulking Geist. Which gives some tempo loss, which makes it really hard to deal with the enemy dropping a 6/6, 7/7 and 3/6 on the same turn.

It's not impossible to beat. But Jade Druid definitely lack any real weakness right now.

Quote from LobsterEmperor >>

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Quote from LobsterEmperor >>

Quote from booganzoth >>

Quote from Harmonius >>

Quote from booganzoth >>

For those who are interested in looking at some data, you may be surprised to learn that the deck with the current highest win rate is...not Jade Druid.

It is Murloc Paladin. 

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/)

Not remotely surprised as the deck farms  the ubiquitous Jade Druid. That deck is a whole other can of worms but it feels more fair and that can actually be alot more important than just WR in a casual game where the goal is fun at the end of the day. Seriously though, I think that if Blizz had a mind to rein in Murloc Paladin then all it would take would be setting Tidecaller's hp to 1 and maybe making warleader a 2/3 or 3/2. Deck would still probably even be t1. 

My post was in response to OP's original comment, which specifically referred to the win rate of Druid decks and the fact that they are "unbeatable".

To be clear, I am no fan of Jade decks. But I think the hate directed at Jade Druid is excessive, especially when there doesn't seem to be a single thread calling for balance adjustments to Murloc Paladin - even though it is in fact the more powerful deck, and has been for several seasons.

Fairness and (even more so) "fun" are subjective matters. To me, having a swarm of fish that shout mrglgrl and pound your face in by turn five is no less fair or "unfun" to play against than hordes of green 10+/10+  statues that say grrrr into fatigue. 

Regardless, if you are going to play ranked and you want to win - you either play the most powerful meta decks or you play decks that counter them. If your goal is strictly to have fun, then casual mode is always an option too (especially if you are not interested in winrate).

 

 M8. Tempostorm made the joke S Tier a reality just to shove every Druid in there.

But I do agree with you when it comes to Murlocs, but at least most Murloc games are done quickly. They also hard counter my Priest deck. So I am sad.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the hate is excessive. There is no way that Malygos Druid is even remotely Tier 2, never mind "Tier S" as it is rated on TempoStorm.

A lot of people are taking that seriously, even though it is clearly intended to be tongue-in-cheek.
 

 I can agree that Malygos Druid really doesn't deserve a Tier S. That is where our similarities end.

They said on the actual page that Tier S WAS created as a joke to reveal the Shaman Deathknight. Then they go on to say that they get to keep using it because Druid is broken as shit. 

Because come on, can you really say that the hate for Druid is excessive when shit like Jade Idol and Ultimate Infestation exists? It's the Meta Knight of Hearthstone. The Brawl Meta Knight too...

dont you drag reno priest into this mate. reno priest is fucking awesome.

Quote from Custermurphy >>

Are druids beatable? Yes.

Are they overpowered? Yes, a little. Enough to let the swarms of net-decker's abuse them. It's a strong deck, but, here's the important thing, it's a relatively easy deck to pilot, which is why they're prevalent. If it took a modicum of thought and planning; we wouldn't be where we are. I would like for the new stronger cards to have a jade downside, to keep ramp druid etc. viable, but also negate a year old deck. UI; gain, summon, draw etc. Destroy all remaining jade cards from your deck. But, before this expansion; Druid, both midrange and EZ big was in a bad place. I understand the card thinking. However, still doesn't excuse broken AF card design. 

Are they the most horrid deck you've ever faced? No, not even close. But, ATM, the most annoying by far. 

Why? Because aside from Jade, they have three other strong archetypes, therefore you have no mulligan strategy vs druid. I long for a day when all nine classes have at least two good decks... 

 

Quote from Zkaletus >>

dont you drag reno priest into this mate. reno priest is fucking awesome.

Quote from bny>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

Quote from LobsterEmperor>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

Quote from Harmonius>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

For those who are interested in looking at some data, you may be surprised to learn that the deck with the current highest win rate is...not Jade Druid.

It is Murloc Paladin. 

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/)

Not remotely surprised as the deck farms  the ubiquitous Jade Druid. That deck is a whole other can of worms but it feels more fair and that can actually be alot more important than just WR in a casual game where the goal is fun at the end of the day. Seriously though, I think that if Blizz had a mind to rein in Murloc Paladin then all it would take would be setting Tidecaller's hp to 1 and maybe making warleader a 2/3 or 3/2. Deck would still probably even be t1. 

My post was in response to OP's original comment, which specifically referred to the win rate of Druid decks and the fact that they are "unbeatable".

To be clear, I am no fan of Jade decks. But I think the hate directed at Jade Druid is excessive, especially when there doesn't seem to be a single thread calling for balance adjustments to Murloc Paladin - even though it is in fact the more powerful deck, and has been for several seasons.

Fairness and (even more so) "fun" are subjective matters. To me, having a swarm of fish that shout mrglgrl and pound your face in by turn five is no less fair or "unfun" to play against than hordes of green 10+/10+  statues that say grrrr into fatigue. 

Regardless, if you are going to play ranked and you want to win - you either play the most powerful meta decks or you play decks that counter them. If your goal is strictly to have fun, then casual mode is always an option too (especially if you are not interested in winrate).

 M8. Tempostorm made the joke S Tier a reality just to shove every Druid in there.

But I do agree with you when it comes to Murlocs, but at least most Murloc games are done quickly. They also hard counter my Priest deck. So I am sad.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the hate is excessive. There is no way that Malygos Druid is even remotely Tier 2, never mind "Tier S" as it is rated on TempoStorm.

A lot of people are taking that seriously, even though it is clearly intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

 haha, I highly doubt anyone taking that tier seriously as in druid being unbeatable because clearly it's not. Pretty sure the purpose is to get attention in order to make blizzard address some valid issues with the druid class.

Basically what they want is innervate moved to hall of fame because of how mana is gained in hearthstone (linear unlike many other card games) and the value of it. This put blizzard in an awkward position since they can't really balance the cards for druid with an appropriate value due to the tempo swings and very unique combos innervate introduce as a mechanic. They have to gamble a bit and hope they aren't too far off and that the meta adjust for it (which makes the class either inferior or superior since it plays in it's own little league value wise).

Also what stats are you referring to? Most stats I've seen lately have put druid ahead of any other class stats wise rank 5 to legend. Paladin have higher win % between rank 20-10 if I recall (which is a vast majority of the playerbase) and only differ 1-2% on rank 5 to legend (which is the ranks you want to look at for balance issues). Now keep in mind that almost everyone that isn't playing druid is running decks that targeting druid, strongest contender being murloc paladin, so that the runner up deck would have close to or even higher win % isn't really that odd since you wont see ppl go "Oh let's tech against those pesky murlocs and forget about the jades for a minute!".

All hype was about Infestetion however if there was no Spreading Plague aggro decks would have had much higher wr against druid and metagame would have been so much different.

 I don't know how hard this idea is...

"Innervate is not an overpowered card. It just limits developers' ability to give druid good cards with reasonable cost because they HAVE TO account to Innervate accelerating these cards, and the fact that even with a 10-mana cost they can't guarantee the druid would only be able to cast it and NOTHING ELSE."

MAYBE they should have thought better to give 1/5 for Spreading Plague. MAYBE. That's it. If you are facing an Ultimate Infestation with 8 mana crystal, yes it's still backbreaking, but not the end of the day. But facing UI on turn 5/6, where you would only have 6 mana crystals to respond? That's a problem. And what enables them to do this? Innervate. 

...you called it shitty?

Quote from bny >>

Quote from booganzoth >>

Quote from bny>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

Quote from LobsterEmperor>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

Quote from Harmonius>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

For those who are interested in looking at some data, you may be surprised to learn that the deck with the current highest win rate is...not Jade Druid.

It is Murloc Paladin. 

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/)

Not remotely surprised as the deck farms  the ubiquitous Jade Druid. That deck is a whole other can of worms but it feels more fair and that can actually be alot more important than just WR in a casual game where the goal is fun at the end of the day. Seriously though, I think that if Blizz had a mind to rein in Murloc Paladin then all it would take would be setting Tidecaller's hp to 1 and maybe making warleader a 2/3 or 3/2. Deck would still probably even be t1. 

My post was in response to OP's original comment, which specifically referred to the win rate of Druid decks and the fact that they are "unbeatable".

To be clear, I am no fan of Jade decks. But I think the hate directed at Jade Druid is excessive, especially when there doesn't seem to be a single thread calling for balance adjustments to Murloc Paladin - even though it is in fact the more powerful deck, and has been for several seasons.

Fairness and (even more so) "fun" are subjective matters. To me, having a swarm of fish that shout mrglgrl and pound your face in by turn five is no less fair or "unfun" to play against than hordes of green 10+/10+  statues that say grrrr into fatigue. 

Regardless, if you are going to play ranked and you want to win - you either play the most powerful meta decks or you play decks that counter them. If your goal is strictly to have fun, then casual mode is always an option too (especially if you are not interested in winrate).

 M8. Tempostorm made the joke S Tier a reality just to shove every Druid in there.

But I do agree with you when it comes to Murlocs, but at least most Murloc games are done quickly. They also hard counter my Priest deck. So I am sad.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the hate is excessive. There is no way that Malygos Druid is even remotely Tier 2, never mind "Tier S" as it is rated on TempoStorm.

A lot of people are taking that seriously, even though it is clearly intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

 haha, I highly doubt anyone taking that tier seriously as in druid being unbeatable because clearly it's not. Pretty sure the purpose is to get attention in order to make blizzard address some valid issues with the druid class.

There have been several posts here and elsewhere that have cited the TempoStorm S-tier as something to be taken seriously. See for example: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/201006-new-tempostorm-metasnapshot

Basically what they want is innervate moved to hall of fame because of how mana is gained in hearthstone (linear unlike many other card games) and the value of it. This put blizzard in an awkward position since they can't really balance the cards for druid with an appropriate value due to the tempo swings and very unique combos innervate introduce as a mechanic. They have to gamble a bit and hope they aren't too far off and that the meta adjust for it (which makes the class either inferior or superior since it plays in it's own little league value wise).

Every class has access to cards that allow them to cheat out mana. Counterfeit Coin, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Summoning Portal, Corpse Widow, Thing from Below, Primordial Glyph to name a few - plus neutrals like Dread Corsair, Burgly Bully and the Giants. It may be that Innervate is the best of these but that is part of Druid's identity. You could just as easily say that cheap spells put Rogue in a class of its own,  or armor gain for Warrior.

Also what stats are you referring to? Most stats I've seen lately have put druid ahead of any other class stats wise rank 5 to legend. Paladin have higher win % between rank 20-10 if I recall (which is a vast majority of the playerbase) and only differ 1-2% on rank 5 to legend (which is the ranks you want to look at for balance issues). Now keep in mind that almost everyone that isn't playing druid is running decks that targeting druid, strongest contender being murloc paladin, so that the runner up deck would have close to or even higher win % isn't really that odd since you wont see ppl go "Oh let's tech against those pesky murlocs and forget about the jades for a minute!".

Here again are the sources originally cited:

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

 

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

 

Quote from Zkaletus >>

...you called it shitty?

I don't know why people complain about lots of jade druids on the ladder.  At least then you can build a deck to fight them or tech one at the very least.  They only show up for me to kill my win streaks and it's infuriating.  I'll see 2 in a row.  Throw in some tech, and then not see another one until I take my tech out.  I don't even think the deck is OP really, it's just easy to pilot, but for the love of god an inconsistent appearance rate is really fucking annoying.

Quote from booganzoth >>

Quote from bny >>

Quote from booganzoth >>

Quote from bny>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

Quote from LobsterEmperor>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

Quote from Harmonius>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

For those who are interested in looking at some data, you may be surprised to learn that the deck with the current highest win rate is...not Jade Druid.

It is Murloc Paladin. 

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/)

Not remotely surprised as the deck farms  the ubiquitous Jade Druid. That deck is a whole other can of worms but it feels more fair and that can actually be alot more important than just WR in a casual game where the goal is fun at the end of the day. Seriously though, I think that if Blizz had a mind to rein in Murloc Paladin then all it would take would be setting Tidecaller's hp to 1 and maybe making warleader a 2/3 or 3/2. Deck would still probably even be t1. 

My post was in response to OP's original comment, which specifically referred to the win rate of Druid decks and the fact that they are "unbeatable".

To be clear, I am no fan of Jade decks. But I think the hate directed at Jade Druid is excessive, especially when there doesn't seem to be a single thread calling for balance adjustments to Murloc Paladin - even though it is in fact the more powerful deck, and has been for several seasons.

Fairness and (even more so) "fun" are subjective matters. To me, having a swarm of fish that shout mrglgrl and pound your face in by turn five is no less fair or "unfun" to play against than hordes of green 10+/10+  statues that say grrrr into fatigue. 

Regardless, if you are going to play ranked and you want to win - you either play the most powerful meta decks or you play decks that counter them. If your goal is strictly to have fun, then casual mode is always an option too (especially if you are not interested in winrate).

 M8. Tempostorm made the joke S Tier a reality just to shove every Druid in there.

But I do agree with you when it comes to Murlocs, but at least most Murloc games are done quickly. They also hard counter my Priest deck. So I am sad.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the hate is excessive. There is no way that Malygos Druid is even remotely Tier 2, never mind "Tier S" as it is rated on TempoStorm.

A lot of people are taking that seriously, even though it is clearly intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

 haha, I highly doubt anyone taking that tier seriously as in druid being unbeatable because clearly it's not. Pretty sure the purpose is to get attention in order to make blizzard address some valid issues with the druid class.

There have been several posts here and elsewhere that have cited the TempoStorm S-tier as something to be taken seriously. See for example: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/201006-new-tempostorm-metasnapshot

Basically what they want is innervate moved to hall of fame because of how mana is gained in hearthstone (linear unlike many other card games) and the value of it. This put blizzard in an awkward position since they can't really balance the cards for druid with an appropriate value due to the tempo swings and very unique combos innervate introduce as a mechanic. They have to gamble a bit and hope they aren't too far off and that the meta adjust for it (which makes the class either inferior or superior since it plays in it's own little league value wise).

Every class has access to cards that allow them to cheat out mana. Counterfeit Coin, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Summoning Portal, Corpse Widow, Thing from Below, Primordial Glyph to name a few - plus neutrals like Dread Corsair, Burgly Bully and the Giants. It may be that Innervate is the best of these but that is part of Druid's identity. You could just as easily say that cheap spells put Rogue in a class of its own,  or armor gain for Warrior.

Also what stats are you referring to? Most stats I've seen lately have put druid ahead of any other class stats wise rank 5 to legend. Paladin have higher win % between rank 20-10 if I recall (which is a vast majority of the playerbase) and only differ 1-2% on rank 5 to legend (which is the ranks you want to look at for balance issues). Now keep in mind that almost everyone that isn't playing druid is running decks that targeting druid, strongest contender being murloc paladin, so that the runner up deck would have close to or even higher win % isn't really that odd since you wont see ppl go "Oh let's tech against those pesky murlocs and forget about the jades for a minute!".

Here again are the sources originally cited:

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

 

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

 

The comments from the original poster on page 1 were specifically addressing win rate, and claimed that Druid is "unbeatable". This is what my post was responding to:

"This needs to be addressed by Blizzard because Druid is above a 62% winrate on hsreplay, the highest winrate a deck has ever had in this game"

I'm not saying that Jade Druid and Aggro Token Druid are not Tier 1 decks, and I'm not saying that they are not impactful.

My point is that several of the most reliable data-driven sources have reported Murloc Paladin to be more powerful. It is also a Tier 1 deck, and has been for several seasons now.  Personally I don't think either of them merits a balance adjustment, but in any case I don't see how one is OP and the other is not.

Well until blizz wakes up I rope all druids on the ladder I suggest we all do it!

Quote from Grimlokus >>

Quote from booganzoth >>

Quote from bny >>

Quote from booganzoth >>

Quote from bny>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

Quote from LobsterEmperor>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

Quote from Harmonius>>

Quote from booganzoth>>

For those who are interested in looking at some data, you may be surprised to learn that the deck with the current highest win rate is...not Jade Druid.

It is Murloc Paladin. 

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/)

Not remotely surprised as the deck farms  the ubiquitous Jade Druid. That deck is a whole other can of worms but it feels more fair and that can actually be alot more important than just WR in a casual game where the goal is fun at the end of the day. Seriously though, I think that if Blizz had a mind to rein in Murloc Paladin then all it would take would be setting Tidecaller's hp to 1 and maybe making warleader a 2/3 or 3/2. Deck would still probably even be t1. 

My post was in response to OP's original comment, which specifically referred to the win rate of Druid decks and the fact that they are "unbeatable".

To be clear, I am no fan of Jade decks. But I think the hate directed at Jade Druid is excessive, especially when there doesn't seem to be a single thread calling for balance adjustments to Murloc Paladin - even though it is in fact the more powerful deck, and has been for several seasons.

Fairness and (even more so) "fun" are subjective matters. To me, having a swarm of fish that shout mrglgrl and pound your face in by turn five is no less fair or "unfun" to play against than hordes of green 10+/10+  statues that say grrrr into fatigue. 

Regardless, if you are going to play ranked and you want to win - you either play the most powerful meta decks or you play decks that counter them. If your goal is strictly to have fun, then casual mode is always an option too (especially if you are not interested in winrate).

 M8. Tempostorm made the joke S Tier a reality just to shove every Druid in there.

But I do agree with you when it comes to Murlocs, but at least most Murloc games are done quickly. They also hard counter my Priest deck. So I am sad.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the hate is excessive. There is no way that Malygos Druid is even remotely Tier 2, never mind "Tier S" as it is rated on TempoStorm.

A lot of people are taking that seriously, even though it is clearly intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

 haha, I highly doubt anyone taking that tier seriously as in druid being unbeatable because clearly it's not. Pretty sure the purpose is to get attention in order to make blizzard address some valid issues with the druid class.

There have been several posts here and elsewhere that have cited the TempoStorm S-tier as something to be taken seriously. See for example: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/201006-new-tempostorm-metasnapshot

Basically what they want is innervate moved to hall of fame because of how mana is gained in hearthstone (linear unlike many other card games) and the value of it. This put blizzard in an awkward position since they can't really balance the cards for druid with an appropriate value due to the tempo swings and very unique combos innervate introduce as a mechanic. They have to gamble a bit and hope they aren't too far off and that the meta adjust for it (which makes the class either inferior or superior since it plays in it's own little league value wise).

Every class has access to cards that allow them to cheat out mana. Counterfeit Coin, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Summoning Portal, Corpse Widow, Thing from Below, Primordial Glyph to name a few - plus neutrals like Dread Corsair, Burgly Bully and the Giants. It may be that Innervate is the best of these but that is part of Druid's identity. You could just as easily say that cheap spells put Rogue in a class of its own,  or armor gain for Warrior.

Also what stats are you referring to? Most stats I've seen lately have put druid ahead of any other class stats wise rank 5 to legend. Paladin have higher win % between rank 20-10 if I recall (which is a vast majority of the playerbase) and only differ 1-2% on rank 5 to legend (which is the ranks you want to look at for balance issues). Now keep in mind that almost everyone that isn't playing druid is running decks that targeting druid, strongest contender being murloc paladin, so that the runner up deck would have close to or even higher win % isn't really that odd since you wont see ppl go "Oh let's tech against those pesky murlocs and forget about the jades for a minute!".

Here again are the sources originally cited:

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

 

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

 

The comments from the original poster on page 1 were specifically addressing win rate, and claimed that Druid is "unbeatable". This is what my post was responding to:

"This needs to be addressed by Blizzard because Druid is above a 62% winrate on hsreplay, the highest winrate a deck has ever had in this game"

I'm not saying that Jade Druid and Aggro Token Druid are not Tier 1 decks, and I'm not saying that they are not impactful.

My point is that several of the most reliable data-driven sources have reported Murloc Paladin to be more powerful. It is also a Tier 1 deck, and has been for several seasons now.  Personally I don't think either of them merits a balance adjustment, but in any case I don't see how one is OP and the other is not.

 Murloc Paladins have a counter. Ironically one of those counters is just Token Druid putting crabs back into their decks. Their other counters, such as Token Shaman or Control decks, are being eaten alive by Jade Druid. Murloc Paladin doesn't shut down an entire archetype by simply existing on the ladder. And I wonder if Murloc Paladin has their numbers skewed because they're favoured against Jade Druids while there are tons of Jade Druids out there. Jade Druid still has a good chance against decks that counter it but decks that Jade Druid counters get absolutely wrecked. 

Jade Druid on the other hand have been given tools to which shores up their weaknesses and punishes their counters. Jade Druid has traditionally been weak against wide boards and big minions as well as the risk of having too much ramp leaving them with nothing in hand. 

Now let's look at what tools they have now. Wide board? Spreading Plague. Ramping too fast? 5 card draw with UI (more consistent than the old draw engine of Auctioneer). Big minions? Well that's easy; now that they don't need to worry about synergy with Auctioneer, and only needs one card to draw, they can run tech cards for big minions. BGH? Silence? Even The Black Knight with how common Bonemares and the Lich King are. Want to drop big minions instead of buffing? Good luck with that when they have infinitely growing minions while 4 mana crystals ahead of you. 

Again I take full advantage of the rope! Punish them brain dead decks! And waste their flavor of the month playing time.

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For those who are interested in looking at some data, you may be surprised to learn that the deck with the current highest win rate is...not Jade Druid.

It is Murloc Paladin. 

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/)

Not remotely surprised as the deck farms  the ubiquitous Jade Druid. That deck is a whole other can of worms but it feels more fair and that can actually be alot more important than just WR in a casual game where the goal is fun at the end of the day. Seriously though, I think that if Blizz had a mind to rein in Murloc Paladin then all it would take would be setting Tidecaller's hp to 1 and maybe making warleader a 2/3 or 3/2. Deck would still probably even be t1. 

My post was in response to OP's original comment, which specifically referred to the win rate of Druid decks and the fact that they are "unbeatable".

To be clear, I am no fan of Jade decks. But I think the hate directed at Jade Druid is excessive, especially when there doesn't seem to be a single thread calling for balance adjustments to Murloc Paladin - even though it is in fact the more powerful deck, and has been for several seasons.

Fairness and (even more so) "fun" are subjective matters. To me, having a swarm of fish that shout mrglgrl and pound your face in by turn five is no less fair or "unfun" to play against than hordes of green 10+/10+  statues that say grrrr into fatigue. 

Regardless, if you are going to play ranked and you want to win - you either play the most powerful meta decks or you play decks that counter them. If your goal is strictly to have fun, then casual mode is always an option too (especially if you are not interested in winrate).

 M8. Tempostorm made the joke S Tier a reality just to shove every Druid in there.

But I do agree with you when it comes to Murlocs, but at least most Murloc games are done quickly. They also hard counter my Priest deck. So I am sad.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the hate is excessive. There is no way that Malygos Druid is even remotely Tier 2, never mind "Tier S" as it is rated on TempoStorm.

A lot of people are taking that seriously, even though it is clearly intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

 haha, I highly doubt anyone taking that tier seriously as in druid being unbeatable because clearly it's not. Pretty sure the purpose is to get attention in order to make blizzard address some valid issues with the druid class.

There have been several posts here and elsewhere that have cited the TempoStorm S-tier as something to be taken seriously. See for example: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/201006-new-tempostorm-metasnapshot

Basically what they want is innervate moved to hall of fame because of how mana is gained in hearthstone (linear unlike many other card games) and the value of it. This put blizzard in an awkward position since they can't really balance the cards for druid with an appropriate value due to the tempo swings and very unique combos innervate introduce as a mechanic. They have to gamble a bit and hope they aren't too far off and that the meta adjust for it (which makes the class either inferior or superior since it plays in it's own little league value wise).

Every class has access to cards that allow them to cheat out mana. Counterfeit Coin, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Summoning Portal, Corpse Widow, Thing from Below, Primordial Glyph to name a few - plus neutrals like Dread Corsair, Burgly Bully and the Giants. It may be that Innervate is the best of these but that is part of Druid's identity. You could just as easily say that cheap spells put Rogue in a class of its own,  or armor gain for Warrior.

Also what stats are you referring to? Most stats I've seen lately have put druid ahead of any other class stats wise rank 5 to legend. Paladin have higher win % between rank 20-10 if I recall (which is a vast majority of the playerbase) and only differ 1-2% on rank 5 to legend (which is the ranks you want to look at for balance issues). Now keep in mind that almost everyone that isn't playing druid is running decks that targeting druid, strongest contender being murloc paladin, so that the runner up deck would have close to or even higher win % isn't really that odd since you wont see ppl go "Oh let's tech against those pesky murlocs and forget about the jades for a minute!".

Here again are the sources originally cited:

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

 

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

 

The comments from the original poster on page 1 were specifically addressing win rate, and claimed that Druid is "unbeatable". This is what my post was responding to:

"This needs to be addressed by Blizzard because Druid is above a 62% winrate on hsreplay, the highest winrate a deck has ever had in this game"

I'm not saying that Jade Druid and Aggro Token Druid are not Tier 1 decks, and I'm not saying that they are not impactful.

My point is that several of the most reliable data-driven sources have reported Murloc Paladin to be more powerful. It is also a Tier 1 deck, and has been for several seasons now.  Personally I don't think either of them merits a balance adjustment, but in any case I don't see how one is OP and the other is not.

Murloc Paladins have a counter. Ironically one of those counters is just Token Druid putting crabs back into their decks. Their other counters, such as Token Shaman or Control decks, are being eaten alive by Jade Druid. Murloc Paladin doesn't shut down an entire archetype by simply existing on the ladder. And I wonder if Murloc Paladin has their numbers skewed because they're favoured against Jade Druids while there are tons of Jade Druids out there. Jade Druid still has a good chance against decks that counter it but decks that Jade Druid counters get absolutely wrecked. 

Jade Druid on the other hand have been given tools to which shores up their weaknesses and punishes their counters. Jade Druid has traditionally been weak against wide boards and big minions as well as the risk of having too much ramp leaving them with nothing in hand. 

Now let's look at what tools they have now. Wide board? Spreading Plague. Ramping too fast? 5 card draw with UI (more consistent than the old draw engine of Auctioneer). Big minions? Well that's easy; now that they don't need to worry about synergy with Auctioneer, and only needs one card to draw, they can run tech cards for big minions. BGH? Silence? Even The Black Knight with how common Bonemares and the Lich King are. Want to drop big minions instead of buffing? Good luck with that when they have infinitely growing minions while 4 mana crystals ahead of you. 

Guys, you win, you lose, the Sun still rises. Take a chill pill.

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Guys, you win, you lose, the Sun still rises. Take a chill pill.

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For those who are interested in looking at some data, you may be surprised to learn that the deck with the current highest win rate is...not Jade Druid.

It is Murloc Paladin. 

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/)

Not remotely surprised as the deck farms  the ubiquitous Jade Druid. That deck is a whole other can of worms but it feels more fair and that can actually be alot more important than just WR in a casual game where the goal is fun at the end of the day. Seriously though, I think that if Blizz had a mind to rein in Murloc Paladin then all it would take would be setting Tidecaller's hp to 1 and maybe making warleader a 2/3 or 3/2. Deck would still probably even be t1. 

My post was in response to OP's original comment, which specifically referred to the win rate of Druid decks and the fact that they are "unbeatable".

To be clear, I am no fan of Jade decks. But I think the hate directed at Jade Druid is excessive, especially when there doesn't seem to be a single thread calling for balance adjustments to Murloc Paladin - even though it is in fact the more powerful deck, and has been for several seasons.

Fairness and (even more so) "fun" are subjective matters. To me, having a swarm of fish that shout mrglgrl and pound your face in by turn five is no less fair or "unfun" to play against than hordes of green 10+/10+  statues that say grrrr into fatigue. 

Regardless, if you are going to play ranked and you want to win - you either play the most powerful meta decks or you play decks that counter them. If your goal is strictly to have fun, then casual mode is always an option too (especially if you are not interested in winrate).

 M8. Tempostorm made the joke S Tier a reality just to shove every Druid in there.

But I do agree with you when it comes to Murlocs, but at least most Murloc games are done quickly. They also hard counter my Priest deck. So I am sad.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the hate is excessive. There is no way that Malygos Druid is even remotely Tier 2, never mind "Tier S" as it is rated on TempoStorm.

A lot of people are taking that seriously, even though it is clearly intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

 haha, I highly doubt anyone taking that tier seriously as in druid being unbeatable because clearly it's not. Pretty sure the purpose is to get attention in order to make blizzard address some valid issues with the druid class.

There have been several posts here and elsewhere that have cited the TempoStorm S-tier as something to be taken seriously. See for example: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/201006-new-tempostorm-metasnapshot

Basically what they want is innervate moved to hall of fame because of how mana is gained in hearthstone (linear unlike many other card games) and the value of it. This put blizzard in an awkward position since they can't really balance the cards for druid with an appropriate value due to the tempo swings and very unique combos innervate introduce as a mechanic. They have to gamble a bit and hope they aren't too far off and that the meta adjust for it (which makes the class either inferior or superior since it plays in it's own little league value wise).

Every class has access to cards that allow them to cheat out mana. Counterfeit Coin, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Summoning Portal, Corpse Widow, Thing from Below, Primordial Glyph to name a few - plus neutrals like Dread Corsair, Burgly Bully and the Giants. It may be that Innervate is the best of these but that is part of Druid's identity. You could just as easily say that cheap spells put Rogue in a class of its own,  or armor gain for Warrior.

Also what stats are you referring to? Most stats I've seen lately have put druid ahead of any other class stats wise rank 5 to legend. Paladin have higher win % between rank 20-10 if I recall (which is a vast majority of the playerbase) and only differ 1-2% on rank 5 to legend (which is the ranks you want to look at for balance issues). Now keep in mind that almost everyone that isn't playing druid is running decks that targeting druid, strongest contender being murloc paladin, so that the runner up deck would have close to or even higher win % isn't really that odd since you wont see ppl go "Oh let's tech against those pesky murlocs and forget about the jades for a minute!".

Here again are the sources originally cited:

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

 

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

 

The comments from the original poster on page 1 were specifically addressing win rate, and claimed that Druid is "unbeatable". This is what my post was responding to:

"This needs to be addressed by Blizzard because Druid is above a 62% winrate on hsreplay, the highest winrate a deck has ever had in this game"

I'm not saying that Jade Druid and Aggro Token Druid are not Tier 1 decks, and I'm not saying that they are not impactful.

My point is that several of the most reliable data-driven sources have reported Murloc Paladin to be more powerful. It is also a Tier 1 deck, and has been for several seasons now.  Personally I don't think either of them merits a balance adjustment, but in any case I don't see how one is OP and the other is not.

 Murloc Paladins have a counter. Ironically one of those counters is just Token Druid putting crabs back into their decks. Their other counters, such as Token Shaman or Control decks, are being eaten alive by Jade Druid. Murloc Paladin doesn't shut down an entire archetype by simply existing on the ladder. And I wonder if Murloc Paladin has their numbers skewed because they're favoured against Jade Druids while there are tons of Jade Druids out there. Jade Druid still has a good chance against decks that counter it but decks that Jade Druid counters get absolutely wrecked. 

Jade Druid on the other hand have been given tools to which shores up their weaknesses and punishes their counters. Jade Druid has traditionally been weak against wide boards and big minions as well as the risk of having too much ramp leaving them with nothing in hand. 

Now let's look at what tools they have now. Wide board? Spreading Plague. Ramping too fast? 5 card draw with UI (more consistent than the old draw engine of Auctioneer). Big minions? Well that's easy; now that they don't need to worry about synergy with Auctioneer, and only needs one card to draw, they can run tech cards for big minions. BGH? Silence? Even The Black Knight with how common Bonemares and the Lich King are. Want to drop big minions instead of buffing? Good luck with that when they have infinitely growing minions while 4 mana crystals ahead of you. 

 1.)
Don't play a wide board
2.) 
Run Skulking geist.
3.)
Go face

Seriously they just prey on slow decks.

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For those who are interested in looking at some data, you may be surprised to learn that the deck with the current highest win rate is...not Jade Druid.

It is Murloc Paladin. 

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/)

Not remotely surprised as the deck farms  the ubiquitous Jade Druid. That deck is a whole other can of worms but it feels more fair and that can actually be alot more important than just WR in a casual game where the goal is fun at the end of the day. Seriously though, I think that if Blizz had a mind to rein in Murloc Paladin then all it would take would be setting Tidecaller's hp to 1 and maybe making warleader a 2/3 or 3/2. Deck would still probably even be t1. 

My post was in response to OP's original comment, which specifically referred to the win rate of Druid decks and the fact that they are "unbeatable".

To be clear, I am no fan of Jade decks. But I think the hate directed at Jade Druid is excessive, especially when there doesn't seem to be a single thread calling for balance adjustments to Murloc Paladin - even though it is in fact the more powerful deck, and has been for several seasons.

Fairness and (even more so) "fun" are subjective matters. To me, having a swarm of fish that shout mrglgrl and pound your face in by turn five is no less fair or "unfun" to play against than hordes of green 10+/10+  statues that say grrrr into fatigue. 

Regardless, if you are going to play ranked and you want to win - you either play the most powerful meta decks or you play decks that counter them. If your goal is strictly to have fun, then casual mode is always an option too (especially if you are not interested in winrate).

 M8. Tempostorm made the joke S Tier a reality just to shove every Druid in there.

But I do agree with you when it comes to Murlocs, but at least most Murloc games are done quickly. They also hard counter my Priest deck. So I am sad.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the hate is excessive. There is no way that Malygos Druid is even remotely Tier 2, never mind "Tier S" as it is rated on TempoStorm.

A lot of people are taking that seriously, even though it is clearly intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

 haha, I highly doubt anyone taking that tier seriously as in druid being unbeatable because clearly it's not. Pretty sure the purpose is to get attention in order to make blizzard address some valid issues with the druid class.

There have been several posts here and elsewhere that have cited the TempoStorm S-tier as something to be taken seriously. See for example: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/201006-new-tempostorm-metasnapshot

Basically what they want is innervate moved to hall of fame because of how mana is gained in hearthstone (linear unlike many other card games) and the value of it. This put blizzard in an awkward position since they can't really balance the cards for druid with an appropriate value due to the tempo swings and very unique combos innervate introduce as a mechanic. They have to gamble a bit and hope they aren't too far off and that the meta adjust for it (which makes the class either inferior or superior since it plays in it's own little league value wise).

Every class has access to cards that allow them to cheat out mana. Counterfeit Coin, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Summoning Portal, Corpse Widow, Thing from Below, Primordial Glyph to name a few - plus neutrals like Dread Corsair, Burgly Bully and the Giants. It may be that Innervate is the best of these but that is part of Druid's identity. You could just as easily say that cheap spells put Rogue in a class of its own,  or armor gain for Warrior.

Also what stats are you referring to? Most stats I've seen lately have put druid ahead of any other class stats wise rank 5 to legend. Paladin have higher win % between rank 20-10 if I recall (which is a vast majority of the playerbase) and only differ 1-2% on rank 5 to legend (which is the ranks you want to look at for balance issues). Now keep in mind that almost everyone that isn't playing druid is running decks that targeting druid, strongest contender being murloc paladin, so that the runner up deck would have close to or even higher win % isn't really that odd since you wont see ppl go "Oh let's tech against those pesky murlocs and forget about the jades for a minute!".

Here again are the sources originally cited:

Sixty percent of the top ten decks - including the top spot - at hsreplay.net are Mulococ Paladin. (Hsreplay.net tracks data from hundreds of thousands of games: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#sortBy=winrate)

And Vicious Syndicate reports: "...the archetype that currently boasts the highest win rate in the game is not a Druid deck. Murloc Paladin, simply put, looks unbeatable right now." (https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

 

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

well your own source, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/infographics/frontrunners-frozen-throne-infographic/ have both jade druid and aggro druid ranked before murloc pala when it comes to meta impact. Your own source also acknowledge that you can't take numbers like winratio out of context to determine the true value of a deck.

Different sources will have different data but all seem to have druid as favorite. Here's another one btw. http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

And again, numbers can be very deceiving. Winratio is just one of many variables to determine how good something actually really is in this game.

 

The comments from the original poster on page 1 were specifically addressing win rate, and claimed that Druid is "unbeatable". This is what my post was responding to:

"This needs to be addressed by Blizzard because Druid is above a 62% winrate on hsreplay, the highest winrate a deck has ever had in this game"

I'm not saying that Jade Druid and Aggro Token Druid are not Tier 1 decks, and I'm not saying that they are not impactful.

My point is that several of the most reliable data-driven sources have reported Murloc Paladin to be more powerful. It is also a Tier 1 deck, and has been for several seasons now.  Personally I don't think either of them merits a balance adjustment, but in any case I don't see how one is OP and the other is not.

Murloc Paladins have a counter. Ironically one of those counters is just Token Druid putting crabs back into their decks. Their other counters, such as Token Shaman or Control decks, are being eaten alive by Jade Druid. Murloc Paladin doesn't shut down an entire archetype by simply existing on the ladder. And I wonder if Murloc Paladin has their numbers skewed because they're favoured against Jade Druids while there are tons of Jade Druids out there. Jade Druid still has a good chance against decks that counter it but decks that Jade Druid counters get absolutely wrecked. 

Jade Druid on the other hand have been given tools to which shores up their weaknesses and punishes their counters. Jade Druid has traditionally been weak against wide boards and big minions as well as the risk of having too much ramp leaving them with nothing in hand. 

Now let's look at what tools they have now. Wide board? Spreading Plague. Ramping too fast? 5 card draw with UI (more consistent than the old draw engine of Auctioneer). Big minions? Well that's easy; now that they don't need to worry about synergy with Auctioneer, and only needs one card to draw, they can run tech cards for big minions. BGH? Silence? Even The Black Knight with how common Bonemares and the Lich King are. Want to drop big minions instead of buffing? Good luck with that when they have infinitely growing minions while 4 mana crystals ahead of you. 

 

Are you saying that Jade Druid has shut down an entire archetype by simply existing on the ladder? Which one? Of the two you mentioned, Control (Priest?) is stronger than it has been for quite a while. Evolve Token Shaman may not be the powerhouse it was mid- to late-Un'goro, but it would be a stretch to say it is “shut down”.

And let's remember that Evolve Token Shaman did not even really become a force until several months after Un'goro was released. The reason it did so well in the first place is because innovative players found a way to make it work, while others were calling for nerfs to cards they didn’t like.

The Hearthstone meta is like an ecosystem - certain decks have their moment in the sun and then fade when others overtake them. This happens in one of two ways: rapidly when new expansions or balance adjustments are released, and more gradually as some players figure out ways to exploit new niches. Inevitably the most successful decks are imitated and the cycle continues.

There is no question that Jade Druid is the most commonly encountered deck in ranked at the moment - somewhere around 16% overall. And yes that gets annoying. But the title of this thread is “Druid is virtually unbeatable”, and people are confusing frequency with winrate.

As of today, the most “unbeatable” archetype recorded by Vicious Syndicate’s live data is...Pirate Warrior (55%). Second place is shared by three decks: Murloc Paladin, Aggro Token Druid and Jade Druid which are each tied at 54%.

Like it or not, the nature of the game is that there are always going a handful of archetypes that become temporarily dominant. And there is more than one way to respond:

One is to post on the forums and call for balance adjustments to cards you don’t like. If enough people complain and blame the developers, eventually they will listen. But guess what? Balance adjustments inevitably lead to new niches to exploit, and then what? Let’s remember that the recent re-emergence of Jade Druid happened precisely once the nerf to Crystal Rogue was released. How many people griping about Jade Druid now were calling for a nerf to The Caverns Below three months ago?

Another approach is to experiment and try to find new ways to make archetypes you most enjoy become viable, or to discover new archetypes altogether.

Which is more fun?

For the record, I am no fan of Jade. I don’t even have Aya Blackpaw in my collection.