Hearthpwn

So, let me start with saying that I dont mind there being a very strong deck / class in the meta. When the last set came out, honestly they should have done more testing with quest rogue because it was just a little more oppressive than it needed to be when it launched and it stayed that way for MONTHS. With quest rogue though it still seemed like there was a lot of diversity to the meta though and a lot of the aggro decks popped up because of it and they did sort of manage the problem.

So, now here we are with Druids. I accept that there are counter classes and strategies to druid and I have watched several good streamers pilot them to victory. My issue here is that it feels like druid has left a very small piece of the pie left that can be played against it and even the decks that can be played against it require you to include jade hate cards and draw them soon enough in the game to not super die. 

My issue here is kind of a multi issue here I guess:

• Aggro should be good against jade but it seems that Frozen Throne mostly did not give much for new aggro tools. In a lot of cases the new tools for aggro are slower and require snowballing for them to work.
• Druid received a ton of defensive measures and draw in Frozen Throne. 
• Skulking Geist is a card that was designed to hate on Jades and it is almost REQUIRED for any of the control decks. You also have to not draw it in the last few cards of your deck or its too late so really anytime its bottom 1/4 of your deck you probably lose right there.
• Combo is / should be good against Jade Druid but unfortunately its mostly not in standard after last rotation. We have Exodia mage as one of very few combo decks now.

Overall, my issues is that Jade druid seems to be very strong against a very very large percent of the meta. My issue is that there should be sort of a rock / papper / scissors to the meta and it feels too much like Jade Druid is the meta and those not playing it have to create decks specifically to counter that. Honestly, I don't much for picking and playing THE deck of the meta nor am I interested in playing the counter to THE deck. My issue is 100% that 50 - 80% of games I play are Jade Druid because too few feel they can beat the damn deck. The few decks that are not druid seem to be decks attempting to beat Druid.

TLDR: I don't care what the in deck is, I just want to play against a diversity of decks dammit.

The problem is if your not playing jade druid, your just getting mercilessly beat down by aggro decks. I decided to try and change it up and go quest mage around rank 8 and instantly queued into nothing but murloc pally, pirate warrior and token jade. Until those cancerous decks are out of the meta people are going to have to play equally cancerous decks like jade druid.

It's also my experience that skulking geist is in last 5 cards of deck everytime except when I play jade druid. I just went 5 straight games of tempo geist turn 6.

Innervate is the problem. People saying it isn't the problem baffle me. Not only does it allow crazy plays like a turn 5-6 infestation, but it's arguably even better in aggro decks, where it allows the druid to vomit out all his minions and then buff them while you're still 2-3 mana away from anything resembling aoe. Or turn 1 bird demon from hell. Or turn 2-3 8/8. 

Guys, Jade Druid is only VIRTUALLY unbeatable, not REAL LIFE unbeatable. Real life beats the game. Please stop with these meaningless fights. 

Quote from Abnell >>

Innervate is the problem. People saying it isn't the problem baffle me. Not only does it allow crazy plays like a turn 5-6 infestation, but it's arguably even better in aggro decks, where it allows the druid to vomit out all his minions and then buff them while you're still 2-3 mana away from anything resembling aoe. Or turn 1 bird demon from hell. Or turn 2-3 8/8. 

It's a combination of things.  I just lost a game to a druid where I was ahead through turn 6, with 2 minions on board to his none.  He's ramped twice, so he's at 8 mana, Innervate into Ultimate Infestation, 5 damage clears one minion, then Innervate again into Wrath to clear my second minion, now he has a 5/5 on board, a full hand, and I have no board.  Game is essentially over at this point. Innervate has become too strong with the other tools Druid has, and Ultimate Infestation is completely broken.  

Yeah fuck it I'm out of standard again, I tried Evolve Shaman at the start of KOFT and was having a lot of fun, started messing around with other decks and classes, winning -50% not giving any fucks, but now it's just druid after druid. Innervate and Infestation fucks you hard and deep in the urethra, didn't think it would have much impact at 10 mana but with 1-2 ramp cards played and then innervates on his turn 8, your turn 5, how are you supposed to ever come back unless you're also playing druid or just a fucking high-roll deck like Raza DK Priest or Quest Mage. If something doesn't get nerfed or put in to HOF then I want my fucking Rag back in standard!!

#rantover

Make Geist cost 1 and always be in your starthand like Quests. ;)

You cry because you can't play pirate warrior and other annoying aggro decks.

Man

Quote from nevr3000 >>

Well, that's some alternative history to me. Even during Karazhan's shamanstone peak, shamans were globally around 15% of the ladder, and similar in the higher ranks/legend.

Quote from Criptfeind >>

Quote from nevr3000 >>

Well, that's some alternative history to me. Even during Karazhan's shamanstone peak, shamans were globally around 15% of the ladder, and similar in the higher ranks/legend.

 According to VS stats on it, in Karazhans shamanstone peak 25% of the meta were shaman, in then they peaked again in MSG at over 30%, with warrior peaking around 20% 15% is closer to what the leadeing decks in un'goro were on whatever day they had their chance in the sun. 

Which is pretty comparable to druids 30% on their stats right now. The difference being that the shaman peaks happened after a period of refinement in the meta, when the truly best and most oppressive deck rose to the top against all challengers and couldn't be moved aside. Right now we're still in a very experimental phase, which means druid might very well get radically better or worse. Which is, you know, almost scary a bit, hah. The idea that druid could get EVEN better.... Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Quote from Criptfeind >>

Quote from nevr3000 >>

Well, that's some alternative history to me. Even during Karazhan's shamanstone peak, shamans were globally around 15% of the ladder, and similar in the higher ranks/legend.

 According to VS stats on it, in Karazhans shamanstone peak 25% of the meta were shaman, in then they peaked again in MSG at over 30%, with warrior peaking around 20% 15% is closer to what the leadeing decks in un'goro were on whatever day they had their chance in the sun. 

Which is pretty comparable to druids 30% on their stats right now. The difference being that the shaman peaks happened after a period of refinement in the meta, when the truly best and most oppressive deck rose to the top against all challengers and couldn't be moved aside. Right now we're still in a very experimental phase, which means druid might very well get radically better or worse. Which is, you know, almost scary a bit, hah. The idea that druid could get EVEN better.... Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Quote from byzants >>

Quote from Criptfeind >>

Quote from nevr3000 >>

Well, that's some alternative history to me. Even during Karazhan's shamanstone peak, shamans were globally around 15% of the ladder, and similar in the higher ranks/legend.

 According to VS stats on it, in Karazhans shamanstone peak 25% of the meta were shaman, in then they peaked again in MSG at over 30%, with warrior peaking around 20% 15% is closer to what the leadeing decks in un'goro were on whatever day they had their chance in the sun. 

Which is pretty comparable to druids 30% on their stats right now. The difference being that the shaman peaks happened after a period of refinement in the meta, when the truly best and most oppressive deck rose to the top against all challengers and couldn't be moved aside. Right now we're still in a very experimental phase, which means druid might very well get radically better or worse. Which is, you know, almost scary a bit, hah. The idea that druid could get EVEN better.... Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Metastats is listing some druid decks at 65% adjusted wr though over 1500 games, which is completely insane in a meta we can assume is heavily trying to counter it. Aggro shaman was so broken it felt like cheating and it was at about 57% on VS.

For comparison, PW was the top dog at legend rank during Un'goro at about 52%.

I am completely stuck at rank 5, I had a 100% WR when I got from rank 15-rank 5.... All I ever play in rank 5 right now is Druid, some type of druid. Does not matter what what hero I try to play, I get rekt by them. 1st it was quest rouges and Shamans (does not matter what kind) now we get Druids of all kinds running around. 
Thought this expansion was supposed to be about control but it just empowered Druids. I just don't understand why Blizzard will not just make everyone equal once and for all and make this game a little more skill base than lets just copy the most cancerous deck. 

Druid is not the problem. The LADDER is the problem. This happens every expansion. We always are quick to blame whatever fotm class is OP at the time and no one seems to question the ladder system -- no sideboard, no best of 3, no incentive to play different decks, etc. The entire ladder system is designed for exploitation and dull deck-building.

Class balance is not the issue here. It's the entire reward systems and design philosophies that make up Hearthstone. If it wasn't rewarding to play Jade Druid or Pirate Warrior or Undertaker Hunter, people wouldn't do it. But it is, so they do.

If I give my kid a candy bar every time he shits in my shoes, I can't really be mad that he keeps shitting in my shoes, right?

Quote from Weikor >>

I think Jade is fucking up the meta even more than people realise. Not only is Jade - easy and frustrating to play agaisnt - it also shuts down the top end of the control decks by itself.

to counter jade druid- the only resonable thing is to play hyper aggressive aggro decks - that flood the board on turn 1-3

Now theres a lot of Jade druid / aggro decks around - which forces control decks that "might" have a chance against jades under normal circumstances - to tech their curve lower and give them a chance vs aggro. Which causes them to lose against jades.

its a loss loss for any deck really

 

Quote from PAH >>

Druid is not the problem. The LADDER is the problem. This happens every expansion. We always are quick to blame whatever fotm class is OP at the time and no one seems to question the ladder system -- no sideboard, no best of 3, no incentive to play different decks, etc. The entire ladder system is designed for exploitation and dull deck-building.

Class balance is not the issue here. It's the entire reward systems and design philosophies that make up Hearthstone. If it wasn't rewarding to play Jade Druid or Pirate Warrior or Undertaker Hunter, people wouldn't do it. But it is, so they do.

If I give my kid a candy bar every time he shits in my shoes, I can't really be mad that he keeps shitting in my shoes, right?

Geist should be 3 mana 1/1 to be balanced.

in turn 6 a god hand jade druid used 5 or 6 Jade Idol

Quote from fat_muradin >>

Geist should be 3 mana 1/1 to be balanced.

in turn 6 a god hand jade druid used 5 or 6 Jade Idol