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I seriously called this. People knocked this card so much when it was released and I knew it was going to be brutal as all hell. I seriously cannot beat demonlock right now with my mage. Too much removal, too many big minions. I even try to save my board control and still can't do anything. No point in trying Frost Nova into doomsayer, they'll just blast crystal potion or siphon soul. Can't maintain any board presence because of Dread Infernal and Abyssal Enforcer.
To clarify this isn't a salt post. This is an "I told you so" post. I actually really like the class, I just didn't pull Gul'Dan.
Yeah it's a pretty cheap deck dust wise. I could craft Gul'Dan but I already have 2 decks to tinker with, I don't need something else eating up my ladder time. Mage is my favorite class and i love the deathknight but she doesn't have the support to be dominant. Might make tier 2 but likely just top tier 3 because of the late game survival power.
play quest rogue, problem solved
also works with druids for now
Grim Patron is not viable, they said. 3/3 is an insignificant body size, they said. The card requires too much setup to work, they said. The multiples can be easily cleaned up, they said.
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
" TGT 2.0 " they said
It's always the same....most(or many, if you will) predictions are wrong. That is true for streamers/youtubers, for the forums and for myself.
Seductive Nerd
It has been only 3 days.
Skelemancer is good against all the board clears warlock has. If they ignore it and go face, buff it with Spikeridged Steed/Blessing of Kings or taunt it with Defender of Argus. SMorc Paladin is pretty good atm (Divine Favour is also great against warlocks).
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/199008-warlock-hero-reveal-bloodreaver-guldan
45% meta-defining
34% very good
What are you talking about? Everyone thought this would be good.
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Card Design ChampionAs a warlock main I'm still skeptical about how long this deck will live. Just because now it is seing a lot of play, it doesn't necessarily mean it will stay that way. Handlock (plantlock) was played in the first 2 weeks of Un'goro, but it was soon replaced by better control decks.
Since you started it, I will join the discussion and I will also give my opinion about Bloodreaver Gul'dan.
{I'm just going to copy/paste J4CKIE's deck, so that we can discuss more easily}
If you look at the MsoG Renolock and see what made the deck strong, you will see it isn't present in the current standard demonlock.
- Reno Jackson, Refreshment Vendor - most importantly the first pick, but those cards sustained the deck, when it needed the heal. Because if you recall how much damage the popular Un'goro decks can do in the first few turns, let's not forget the mage decks with their burn, you'll need the heal ASAP. If it's the late-game we are talking about, then the healing should be reasonable (Forbidden Healing, Ragnaros, Lightlord, Kalimos, Primal Lord, Greater Healing Potion). Siphon Life, although a great HP, isn't going to revive warlock, when the meta settles. Why? Because:
- Siphon Life - doesn't fully recover you once you start using it. It needs time, aka some turns before you restore the damage. Not only that, but because Bloodreaver Gul'dan costs 10 mana, the HP needs to wait a turn, before you can use it.
- DIE, INSECT! The winning strategy of TW: building a great wall, having a big chunk of armor and then (from a safe distance) hurling fireballs onto the opponent's face. For me Siphon Life is kinda a strange HP in terms of a late-game one. It sustains, but in the late game I want to start winning. I have survived the early and the mid-game, just to follow the same attritive strategy? And we all know, that this can't win us the game anymore, we need something more proactive. That's why I would prefer the battlecry of Lord Jaraxxus over Gul'dan's.
- Speaking of winning, let's mention the battlecry. Imo there aren't many good demons in standard, for the DK to be worth. Because in order for us to get rewarded from it, we need to make a set-up, to have the "dream hand" of always playing those demons on curve and then to play Bloodreaver Gul'dan. But when 2/3 of your deck is something other than that, making the DK big isn't an easy task. While in wild Bloodreaver Gul'dan is going to form new types of control decks, because we have strong demons like Mal'Ganis and most importantly Voidcaller, in standard we can't profit from the demons that much. They are nice bodies, but some are expensive and when you revive them, they remain as plain 6/6 bodies. This is good in terms of rewarding the player for playing them, BUT this won't be good enough to rely on this strategy. Think of the board clears and how you are better off, when playing N'Zoth, because the minions will leave value after they die. MsoG Anyfin Paladin had more ways to deal with aggro, had better minions and Anyfin Can Happen was a game winning strategy.
In standard if you revive your minions, only Despicable Dreadlord and Voidwalker have an immediate impact on the board. 2 small taunts and a 2 damage Whirlwind. This can't be compared to the example I gave above.
- Kazakus (with the help of Brann Bronzebeard) + Lord Jaraxxus: Gaining value. In addition to the strong removals and sustain tools, you will need a way to always get ahead over your opponent. Kazakus' potions had an immediate impact on the board. Not always reliable, but very, very strong. From burst, to AoE and more board presence. In J4CKIE's deck warlocks have a finite number of threats. Kill them and they are out of steam. How to do it? Just keep a Brawl or an Equality combo, deal with the LK and poof, they can't threaten you anymore.
The Lich King is a value generating minion, but it can't compensate the effect of the two above mentioned cards. And he is weak to single-target removals.
- Ragnaros the Firelord, Sylvanas Windrunner, Emperor Thaurissan - the first two mentions were design limiting cards, but overall this is what is missing. Something strong to play in the mid-game. Something to compete with the mid-game plays of other decks - dragon priest, mid-range pally, shaman's evolve combo, Jade dudu etc. If we had similar strong mid-game options, then Bloodreaver Gul'dan would replace the need of Lord Jaraxxus' effect.
Tl; DR: If you ask me, OP, this is just temporary. People will see the flaws of this deck and will realize, that it's not so strong versus the popular un'goro ones.
Warlock power comes from meta not so much from Bloodreaver Gul'dan.I love the card no doubt,but it's not the reason i can play my favourite class again.The main reason warlock sees play is the death of pirate warrior by shamans, paladins and now even druids.So the 3 top classes buttf*ck face and burn decks.The moment a burn/face deck becomes tier 1 again,warlock will be back to dumpster as long as we don't have an instant huge heal.
2.) For quite a while Playable was the highest vote total, I'd wager a lot of votes were changed once the expansion dropped
the meta today is about: can a deck beat druid ? if yes: it is viable and if not: it is shit.
now think about Gul'dan again
This is when I have to ask... are we playing the same game? I just got to legend today. I faced almost no warlocks. When I have faced warlocks, I have never had any problems with the DK. The datareaper statistics back this up. Warlock is sort of popular at low ranks, but its numbers drop off severely at ranks 5-1, getting all the way down to 2.5%. Over 50% of people at rank 1 are playing druid or paladin, I think we can safely say that is currently the meta. Based on what I've seen, I feel fairly confident in saying that the warlock DK will not be a serious presence in the standard competitive meta.
He's not that good. Dread Infernal sucks and is literally only 1 damage.
Guldan battlecry only work vs Control Mage, but Control Paladin, Control Priest and Control Warrior laugh at it. Once they board gone, you dead, unless you also play Jaraxus. But because you only have 15 helath Priest can nuke you easy and Control Padadin just ram alll their shiny 5/3 weapon at your face maybe.
I am more concern about jade.