I think I know what you're talking about. Somewhat at least. I've always enjoyed making my own decks. I try to see how well I can do with them against the popular decks. The fact that there's so much diversity is great for the state of the game, but it actually does make homebrews even worse than before. During most metas, you can get away with a homebrew simply by adding more tech cards against the most popular deck(s). Pirate warrior brought about a new era though. Teching against pirate warrior meant including weapon destroying effects, which fill a very narrow purpose. When the meta was mostly pirate warrior and jade druid, it was much harder for any non-aggro deck to tech against both of them.
Fast forward to now. While there's definitely ways to take existing decks and give them a unique twist, I would argue that it's much harder to create your own deck that can compete. Now, I live for that challenge, but even I admit it can feel frustrating when you lose 70% of your games because you use interesting, instead of powerful, cards.
That one brawl where you can only use decks made of Common or Rare cards was a refreshing breath of fresh air. If deck filters can be added to search for normal games, then players would have more opportunity to not go against popular powerful constructed decks.
But given the ladder feature of the game, it should be expected that a good population of the players would only be playing constructed decks on-and-off the ladder. We may occasionally come across that unexpected deck in ladder that turns up as consistently reliable, but we should be willing to risk playing those decks in ladder to prove their mettle.
I'm getting to the point where I'm just gonna play aggro decks. I get pitted against so many paladins lately it's ridiculous and they all run Stonehill defender which is pretty much a guaranteed extra Sunkeeper Tarim or Tirion Fordring and it's just not fun anymore to have to deal with that.
Welcome to CCG's. That's how every card game is played. With the exception of if the format makes it otherwise (Drafts and Highlander) or if you're playing with an IRL friend at a table. (Because you can house-rule)
But it is wrong to put FUN and PERFORMANCE in a dichotomy. They are NOT.
Fun is a complex function, made of satisfaction, and the simplest form of satisfaction is victory, performance. Then, you also have the satisfaction of creation and refinement, which is harder to achieve.
You complain about cancer decks exactly because you can hardly defeat them with wacky decks. You wouldn't complain otherwise.
That being said, i am not here to attack you ofc. I am saying that if you truly believe in your "fun" theory, then you shouldn't complain, because you shouldn't care of losing. But you do, and it's normal. What is not normal is pointing the finger towards cancer. Because it is a bad conceptual mistake.
But most importantly, I am just saying that if you really want to homebrew, HS still has plenty of room, imo. At the very least in casual, but also in ladder. Ofc you can't expect to build mindless greedy decks and win.
Homebrew refinement is not an easy task, and often bound to fail. But it has the satisfaction of the creation, which netdecking can't give.
You just have to choose how you prefer to build your own fun.
Fun to me is winning games and getting high Legend every month I enjoy doing so with the best decks you can build. If people don't enjoy the decks they wouldn't be playing this game mate. If you want to play avarage decks and thats more fun to you you can still do so. You claim people only play decks to win games , since you don't seem to care about winning I don't see the issue here?
We have very different ideas of fun, my friend. My goal is to figure out the way to win as many games as possible. Your list of decks you are complaining about isn't even fair, though. According to datareaper, there is no deck with more than 10% representation, and the list of most popular decks is Pirate warrior > Token Shaman > Jade Druid > Token Druid > Control Priest > Midrange Paladin > Secret Mage > Miracle Rogue > Midrange hunter. All of which you should be seeing on average once per 10 to 20 games. That is 9 relatively prevalent decks.
People have also been making the same complaints as you basically since hearthstone was released. And again, the issue will remain that different people find different things fun. What you call a 'fun' deck is likely my least favorite type of deck to go against. Nothing makes me angrier in hearthstone than playing against someone's inconsistent homebrew, and running into that small percentage chance where the stars align and it works out. I like a game where I can make some predictions as to what my opponents will play and try to optimize my decks to beat that.
If you went to Data Reaper, he's literally talking about people like you. Data reaper also doesn't account for pocket Metas, where he may have Queued into 3 decks for 2 hours. Just because its a statistic doesn't mean everyone experiences it.
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I remember the days when Tier 4 was only Shaman decks.
It's not people playing aggro that is the problem, it's Blizzard printing toxic cards and not changing them that is. When classes that don't even have any pirate synergy are running 1/2s and 4 mana 3/3 taunts just to summon patches from their deck, there is clearly a problem.
In this expansion I have seen warlock, shaman, paladin, and druid all play Bloodsail Corsair and summon patches on a regular basis. What happened to all the hoopla about class identity. If it is so important to team 5, why do they let this broken 1 drop stay in the game like it is?
On top of that, it is well known that pirate warrior is easily played and has a good winrate when played by bots. Is that not enough to signal a change is necessary? We never needed a new ooze or a crab that eats pirates. We need a dev team willing to nerf a stupidly easy deck so it wouldn't dominate the meta for the next fucking year. Much diversity Blizzard. For a team that goes on about how they want every game to feel different, why let the most dominant deck reign free for so long?
I have just shown you two huge examples of the hypocrisy of team 5. It is this reason that this community disgusts me when it celebrates a designer making a rap video. We have a team that doesn't follow their own philosophy and constantly spout empty words. This is what we should be talking about, not fucking complaining about each other.
I get the fact that winning could also be fun, but i completely agree with this guy. I've played this game for 3 years now and i've met quite some players by adding them as friends. People who just started playing the game mostly play for the win and net deck a cheap deck like midrange hunter. People like me have already done that stuff, netdecking a meta deck and get to a high rank, but don't find the fun in that anymore. I love control vs control matchups where the games are fun till the last card. But there have always been decks like face hunter, pirate and patron warrior and aggro druid. I don't mind losing if it was a nice game, but it's also a nice feeling to win against pirate warrior :P
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- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
Also, the same person can switch between all of those, depending on time and mood (I know I do).
I like to win, so if I see a powerful deck that looks fun, I won't mind trying it out, even if it is someone elses creation. On the other hand, I love thinking up new decks and trying them out, fully accepting that they might fail miserably until refined, or until I give up on refining them. If I'm in the mood, I'll also play for the memes lol (but it's a bit harder in HS for a newer players, simply due to lack of cards - you can only craft so much, so you will usually craft for power).
Of course, the best and most rewarding scenario is when your homebrew deck actually performs well (even against acknowledged T1/T2 decks), but this is a very hard and rare thing to accomplish (as there really aren't that many cards -> combinations, so if you made a T1 deck on your own, chances are you're not the only one, and it's already out there becoming/being popular).
Some things to keep in mind though: - ladder is, almost by definition, for people playing to win - people doing their quests usually want to do so (a) quickly and (b) not on ladder. This often means taking a T1 deck and taking it to Casual
You can't complain about either of these really, not to the players anyway. It's just the way the game is designed. The only thing that could be done is maybe adding another "fun" mode, in which there are no rewards and quests can't be completed. That one would probably be mostly free of netdecked T1 stuff.
Well tbh nearly always you can find a deck that is both fun and working, a deck that can win games and you have fun playing it. For me it's atm my slightly changed version of miracle rogue with questing adventurers etc. with which i was able to make ranks 14-6 with few looses and was enjoying all the games.
I am a f2p too but I still netdeck absentminded decks, I am just there for reward and rank floors. If you want fun, We can meme them to hell and back with extra funky, mad wonky, WTF-y decks(just check my signature) once we reach the ranks floors, and sometimes the players discover decks that are both fun and competitive, leading to a leak of original decks beyond the rank floors.
The only way I can interpret this and still make sense of it is you asking for every single player in hearthstone, all 70 million of people, to gave up their competitive side just to fulfill your whim of the day.
And I don't think I need to point out how incredibly selfish that is.
I see what you are doing. You are a poor fuck Pirate Warrior trying to make people play fun decks on ladder, so you can be the king... you don't fool me.
Thank most people for answer. Like I said, is my opinion.
I see most people saw the point and a few didnt and troll. I dont mind, I think that at least an adult will understand my point.
Anyway, is good this kind of discussion, this way you can see what is the kind of people behind the "number" or the "user name" that play against you in Hearthstone. I'll take some advises since they're really good.
PS.: Pirate Warrior is the worst that is and I refuse to use it :V
i play for fun, i had a lot of fun roping face hunters during the face huner era, and i have a lot of fun roping pirate warriors nowadays, let the ropes begin!
i play for fun, i had a lot of fun roping face hunters during the face huner era, and i have a lot of fun roping pirate warriors nowadays, let the ropes begin!
Are you still complaining about Pirate Warrior??? HA!! The deck is a joke right now, teaching against it is very easy, it's reign of terror ended a long time ago.
F...k Garrosh and Magni and their stupid pirate friends!!!
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breaking news: people can play what they want
I think I know what you're talking about. Somewhat at least. I've always enjoyed making my own decks. I try to see how well I can do with them against the popular decks. The fact that there's so much diversity is great for the state of the game, but it actually does make homebrews even worse than before. During most metas, you can get away with a homebrew simply by adding more tech cards against the most popular deck(s). Pirate warrior brought about a new era though. Teching against pirate warrior meant including weapon destroying effects, which fill a very narrow purpose. When the meta was mostly pirate warrior and jade druid, it was much harder for any non-aggro deck to tech against both of them.
Fast forward to now. While there's definitely ways to take existing decks and give them a unique twist, I would argue that it's much harder to create your own deck that can compete. Now, I live for that challenge, but even I admit it can feel frustrating when you lose 70% of your games because you use interesting, instead of powerful, cards.
That one brawl where you can only use decks made of Common or Rare cards was a refreshing breath of fresh air. If deck filters can be added to search for normal games, then players would have more opportunity to not go against popular powerful constructed decks.
But given the ladder feature of the game, it should be expected that a good population of the players would only be playing constructed decks on-and-off the ladder. We may occasionally come across that unexpected deck in ladder that turns up as consistently reliable, but we should be willing to risk playing those decks in ladder to prove their mettle.
I'm getting to the point where I'm just gonna play aggro decks. I get pitted against so many paladins lately it's ridiculous and they all run Stonehill defender which is pretty much a guaranteed extra Sunkeeper Tarim or Tirion Fordring and it's just not fun anymore to have to deal with that.
Welcome to CCG's. That's how every card game is played. With the exception of if the format makes it otherwise (Drafts and Highlander) or if you're playing with an IRL friend at a table. (Because you can house-rule)
Sorry, but face is NOT place :P
Maybe.
But it is wrong to put FUN and PERFORMANCE in a dichotomy. They are NOT.
Fun is a complex function, made of satisfaction, and the simplest form of satisfaction is victory, performance. Then, you also have the satisfaction of creation and refinement, which is harder to achieve.
You complain about cancer decks exactly because you can hardly defeat them with wacky decks. You wouldn't complain otherwise.
That being said, i am not here to attack you ofc. I am saying that if you truly believe in your "fun" theory, then you shouldn't complain, because you shouldn't care of losing. But you do, and it's normal. What is not normal is pointing the finger towards cancer. Because it is a bad conceptual mistake.
But most importantly, I am just saying that if you really want to homebrew, HS still has plenty of room, imo. At the very least in casual, but also in ladder. Ofc you can't expect to build mindless greedy decks and win.
Homebrew refinement is not an easy task, and often bound to fail. But it has the satisfaction of the creation, which netdecking can't give.
You just have to choose how you prefer to build your own fun.
Fun to me is winning games and getting high Legend every month I enjoy doing so with the best decks you can build. If people don't enjoy the decks they wouldn't be playing this game mate. If you want to play avarage decks and thats more fun to you you can still do so. You claim people only play decks to win games , since you don't seem to care about winning I don't see the issue here?
99% of homebrew decks i've seen or watched timmys build are just unoptimized variations of net decks anyways.
speed, momentum, violence
I remember the days when Tier 4 was only Shaman decks.
It's not people playing aggro that is the problem, it's Blizzard printing toxic cards and not changing them that is. When classes that don't even have any pirate synergy are running 1/2s and 4 mana 3/3 taunts just to summon patches from their deck, there is clearly a problem.
In this expansion I have seen warlock, shaman, paladin, and druid all play Bloodsail Corsair and summon patches on a regular basis. What happened to all the hoopla about class identity. If it is so important to team 5, why do they let this broken 1 drop stay in the game like it is?
On top of that, it is well known that pirate warrior is easily played and has a good winrate when played by bots. Is that not enough to signal a change is necessary? We never needed a new ooze or a crab that eats pirates. We need a dev team willing to nerf a stupidly easy deck so it wouldn't dominate the meta for the next fucking year. Much diversity Blizzard. For a team that goes on about how they want every game to feel different, why let the most dominant deck reign free for so long?
I have just shown you two huge examples of the hypocrisy of team 5. It is this reason that this community disgusts me when it celebrates a designer making a rap video. We have a team that doesn't follow their own philosophy and constantly spout empty words. This is what we should be talking about, not fucking complaining about each other.
maybe there would be fun if there'd be a true "casual" game mode (where you wouldn't get anything from it)
other than that there is no incentive to play "fun" decks, guess you still have brawl for what that's worth
In this thread: Pirate Warriors, Jade Druids and Murloc Paladins justifying terrible card design.
I get the fact that winning could also be fun, but i completely agree with this guy. I've played this game for 3 years now and i've met quite some players by adding them as friends. People who just started playing the game mostly play for the win and net deck a cheap deck like midrange hunter. People like me have already done that stuff, netdecking a meta deck and get to a high rank, but don't find the fun in that anymore. I love control vs control matchups where the games are fun till the last card. But there have always been decks like face hunter, pirate and patron warrior and aggro druid. I don't mind losing if it was a nice game, but it's also a nice feeling to win against pirate warrior :P
- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
Agreed with the Johnny-Timmy-Spike theory.
Also, the same person can switch between all of those, depending on time and mood (I know I do).
I like to win, so if I see a powerful deck that looks fun, I won't mind trying it out, even if it is someone elses creation.
On the other hand, I love thinking up new decks and trying them out, fully accepting that they might fail miserably until refined, or until I give up on refining them.
If I'm in the mood, I'll also play for the memes lol (but it's a bit harder in HS for a newer players, simply due to lack of cards - you can only craft so much, so you will usually craft for power).
Of course, the best and most rewarding scenario is when your homebrew deck actually performs well (even against acknowledged T1/T2 decks), but this is a very hard and rare thing to accomplish (as there really aren't that many cards -> combinations, so if you made a T1 deck on your own, chances are you're not the only one, and it's already out there becoming/being popular).
Some things to keep in mind though:
- ladder is, almost by definition, for people playing to win
- people doing their quests usually want to do so (a) quickly and (b) not on ladder. This often means taking a T1 deck and taking it to Casual
You can't complain about either of these really, not to the players anyway. It's just the way the game is designed. The only thing that could be done is maybe adding another "fun" mode, in which there are no rewards and quests can't be completed. That one would probably be mostly free of netdecked T1 stuff.
Well tbh nearly always you can find a deck that is both fun and working, a deck that can win games and you have fun playing it. For me it's atm my slightly changed version of miracle rogue with questing adventurers etc. with which i was able to make ranks 14-6 with few looses and was enjoying all the games.
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
I don't get what you are on about, OP.
I am a f2p too but I still netdeck absentminded decks, I am just there for reward and rank floors. If you want fun, We can meme them to hell and back with extra funky, mad wonky, WTF-y decks(just check my signature) once we reach the ranks floors, and sometimes the players discover decks that are both fun and competitive, leading to a leak of original decks beyond the rank floors.
The only way I can interpret this and still make sense of it is you asking for every single player in hearthstone, all 70 million of people, to gave up their competitive side just to fulfill your whim of the day.
And I don't think I need to point out how incredibly selfish that is.
When the weak court death, they find it.
I see what you are doing. You are a poor fuck Pirate Warrior trying to make people play fun decks on ladder, so you can be the king... you don't fool me.
Thank most people for answer. Like I said, is my opinion.
I see most people saw the point and a few didnt and troll. I dont mind, I think that at least an adult will understand my point.
Anyway, is good this kind of discussion, this way you can see what is the kind of people behind the "number" or the "user name" that play against you in Hearthstone. I'll take some advises since they're really good.
PS.: Pirate Warrior is the worst that is and I refuse to use it :V
Thanks guys and girls
i play for fun, i had a lot of fun roping face hunters during the face huner era, and i have a lot of fun roping pirate warriors nowadays, let the ropes begin!