Hearthpwn

Paladin was never my class so I guess it'll be it.

Quote from Aether_lackey >>

While my first instinct was voting for rogue. Rogues are kinda broken, yeah... but you can't deny there's variety in rogue, they kinda do their own thing. 

Hunter on the other hand is the most plain, boring and one dimensional class. You can choose between aggro or aggressive midrange. You don't do anything fancy, best case scenario you trigger some deathrattles. Sure, you could play lock and load but the RNG novelty has faded out a long time ago, not to mention you're going to be handing out free wins.

Hunter was badly designed. 

Rogue JUST ROGUE

Quote from EquinoxHS >>

Quote from Aether_lackey >>

Hunter was badly designed. 

 For the second time it isn't one-dimensional.  You just need to experiment.

You can play Control Hunter, Dragon Hunter (like I do), Elemental Hunter could possibly work, N'Zoth Hunter, Reno Hunter....  While none of these are high tiers at ALL, or anywhere close, what it takes is innovation.  If you want to play a new and unique deck, you need to make it YOURSELF.  If less people used Netdecks, then we'd have a plethora of awesomely unique decks.  I made my Dragon Hunter.  It started Aggro.  But I managed to make a working Control/Midrange Dragon Hunter.  That's why Hunter doesn't work too often - people only look at one side of the coin.

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from Ensaru64 >>

 This is no longer true, and has been that way for a while now. If you look at it objectively, the best control class is Warrior. Priest used to be great against Warrior when Hearthstone was officially released, but they tend to phase in and out of relevance all the time, and barely ever reaching the likes of Tier 1. It is very easy to beat a Priest as a control deck. You simply play nothing and draw less cards than they do, or play stuff only when you can effectively deal with it. Because the class by nature is reactive and permission-based, the hard truth is that you almost always have the upper hand before a Priest does. The only way you could lose against a Priest would be out of impatience, draw RNG and Drakonid Operative. 

The two most difficult classes to play in Hearthstone are Priest and Rogue. Priest players tend to always get greedy, as it is the nature of the class, but like Kripp often says, sometimes you win a Priest matchup by just waiting for them to mess up, which is very, very easy to do if you're a Priest or Rogue player. The only toxic card Priest has currently is Drakonid Operative, and that card is obscene. The only bad thing about facing Priest is the feeling you get when you lose, because of course it's gonna hurt if the class' entire shtick is using their opponent's tools against them. But all in all, unless you're facing Dragon Priest, you should be very happy to get matched against a Priest player, because it's the class you think is OP when you first play Hearthstone, only to realise it's very inconsistent.

In a Control Mirror Match between Warrior and Priest, the Warrior is naturally favoured due to hero power. Warrior automatically wins in fatigue. The only problems arrive when Priest start Thought Stealing your big bombs and you have to deal with multiple Ragnaros and such. So in theory, yes, Warrior is very much favoured, it is only dependant on how lucky his stealing is. Hence why I really dislike the stealing cards, they can at random turn a bad matchup into a good matchup by luck, not by skill. But this does not apply against other classes that want to play control. Warrior simply has the armour advantage, other classes can't beat Priest in fatigue, so they are forced to win before fatigue, and there is where the issue rises, you have to play cards to win the matchup, which gives them the ability to interact and steal. That ends up giving the advantage to the Priest.

Drakonid Operative is just absurdly broken, when I saw they were printing that card I just thought of how glad I was for not playing against Priest anymore.

I still find Priest to be very OP, I'm a Control player, always will be, and since I like to play more classes than just Warrior, I am always at a disadvantage in a control mirror against a Priest. They are inconsistent and rarely their card steals are useless, but most times I faced them, they always got best cards possible. I once had to deal with 3 Ragnaros and 2 Sylvanas from the Priest, when his deck only had 1 Sylvanas and no Ragnaros. and I was playing as a Hunter. Do you have any idea how hard it is to beat that has a Hunter? (I was playing Control Hunter) And the absurd amount of Ice Blocks that I get Thought Stolen, to the point where I had to change my mulligan to always keep the card, cuz even if it was a 1 in 20 chance, they always got lucky with it. This kind of thing really turns your stance against the class very unfavourable.

The way I see it, Priests should use their own cards. I play each class because I want to use their cards, not to use cards from other classes... In my opinion, Blizzard really fucked up Priests design. Instead of making all the stealing cards, they could have made much more Shadow Priest support cards, giving a much more fun and interesting identity to Priest, and preventing as much frustration as possible that the stealing cards cause. But it's their game, their choice, so I just don't play against them. It's a shame, I would actually play Priest a lot more if they had Shadow Priest support, but no...

Hunter, cause i really can't enjoy the class. Since i start playing it didnt evolve at all, is all about going face, and i don't see it changing all of a sudden. In fact i'm level 30 with hunter. Most boring and one dimensional class

Quote from SharpShooter >>

Why do you guys hate hunter more than mage ?

 

I don't like Druid but Hunter is the least interesting at the moment, so that would be it.

Id rather see Hunter buffed to be a more tactical trappy class that has you guessing or taking risks to play against it, that would be cool, even if face down cards where a Hunter only thing I would like that.

Death Knight I don't know, I mean it should be interesting and Id need to see that before replacing Hunter, what if there is just another boring class after that? Better to buff and then think about another one

Does anyone else find it ironic that the only legendary card we've seen from the new expansion literally replaces Hunter with Death Knight?

So a small plurality of you got your wish. Can we lock the thread now?

Warriors so Pirate Warrior will go away forever

Quote from DiamondDM13>>

I would argue Priests have pretty good control tools with all the stealing and AoE and healing. I'm talking about the class as a whole not simply standard. You are trying to make a comparison that doesn't make much sense. The Mage you are refering to is not a Control Mage but rather a Combo Mage. Freeze Mage is a Combo deck, which yes does play control in many matchups, but plays aggressive in others, since it has to play depending on what the opponent is playing. Control Mages will not burn down Priests, they will try to outvalue the Priests and fail at it since the Priest has more tools to deal with the Mage cards and it also steals more tools from the Mage.

Druids having lots of 4 attack minions is not much since Priest has Mind Control, Entomb, Pint Size Potion. Druids have big minions, so does Priest, and Priest can make them unbelievably big, which the Druid simply can't deal with, while Druids can't do that and even those that get big get Shadow Word Deathed and so on.

You can steal Jaraxxus if you want or get lucky, making it a fairly even matchup, but better since you fatigue later (The warlock taps, you don't, you already win the fatigue game). You also have more tools to take advantage of the Jaraxxus Hero Power than they do, they don't really have ways to increase inferno health for multiple trades and board advantage.

Midrange Shaman has no business in this discussion, I thought we were talking about Control decks. Priest can simply just steal and entomb the powerful cards in the Shaman and GG.

Well personally I think they did. The amount of frustration Priest has given me, compared to the amount of joy I would get from playing Shadow Priest builds if they offered more support, is a clear indicator for ME of how they fucked up. Obviously others might feel differently.

They clearly prefer having people scumbag steal everything from the opponents and win that way, and it's fair, it just goes against everything I enjoy and the way I am...

However, they have had active playstyles for Priest, Dragon Priest being a really annoying example of that.

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from Ensaru64 >>

Freeze Mage can only play control until they get their combo pieces. Only in hearthstone we separate the two, but combo decks are control decks. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The only aggressive combo decks has been Combo Druid, Patron Warrior and Miracle Rogue. Mages also have their own tools in out-valuing a Priest, but if your first thought is trying to out-value a Priest using Mage, then now you know why you have so much trouble against them. A Mage's goal against a Priest would be to burn them down in as little turns as possible, to avoid a Priest the option to recover.

I completely agree. But it was the intention for Priests to have a win condition, as evidenced by Prophet Velen and Divine Spirit, but we all know how that turned out.

 

Mind Control takes an entire turn to play, and can't be played until the late game. It's very obvious why this card is a risk to put into a deck on ladder. If you are worried about Mind Control, then you bait it out, or do not play anything until you can deal with it. Patience is necessary against a Priest. Entomb is not as good as it used to be. Pint Size Potion is yet another card which does nothing proactive, takes up a slot in your deck and must be combo'd with another card. Priest doesn't have much card drawing options, by the way. And since we're talking about cards outside of standard, Druids have Mulch. Other than that, having a Priest spend a lot of buffs on a single card, in addition to putting in cards which requires them to have a board in the first place sounds very risky on the priest's part.

 

This is a very poor argument, and comes down to probability and luck. 

 

At this point, it seems you're just focusing on those times where a Priest stole all your good stuff (which doesn't often happen), than actually looking objectively at it. I mentioned Shaman because the Shaman class used to be very similar to the Priest class, where they're both a reactive class with some crippling downsides, and now, because they were given many proactive cards, they're better for it, but some people believe the strength of the class borders on absurdity sometimes.

I shudder to think how you'd accept stealing mechanics in other card games. In Magic: The Gathering for example, when you steal a card, it's not a copy, you're actually stealing it away. Also stealing doesn't allow a Priest to out-value their opponent unless it's something as ridiculous as Drakonid Operative (don't worry, I HATE this card too), or something like Thoughtsteal which only increases their card amount by 1. Also, the value is heavily dependent on what they actually steal.

Well, there you have it. The problem isn't the class, it's your perception of its flavor.

 

Which is why people have issue with Dragon Priest as it doesn't fit with the usual playstyle of the class, and instead makes it tempo-based.

 Not really, Freeze Mage can actually play the full control game if it wants to in certain matchups. A very famous matchup for this is the Miracle Rogue Matchup. As a Freeze Mage, you can simply play control all game, remove all the Rogues minions and run them out of resources without ever bothering with winning by the damage combo. You can also do that against Zoo sometimes.

Yes it was intended, we can see in those cards. To me it almost felt like they were going to design the Shadow Priest support and then suddenly decided to add also the Stealing cards and that filled up the space.

We started this argument discussing the power of Priest in Control matchups. Mind Control and Entomb and such are bad for ladder because it's Aggro focused. That doesn't really say much. Those cards are extremely powerful in Control Matchups. Yes you can play around them by baiting them or waiting for removal, but you simply don't have enough removal to deal with his threats, your threats that they copy from your deck/hand, and also the threats they mind control/entomb. You don't have enough removal for all of that. They have almost enough removal and big problem, they don't just remove your threats, they generate threats for them. This is extremely powerful in control matchups. Yes Druids have Mulch, want to compare Mulch to the single target removal Priest has at it's disposal?

Yes, it does come down to probability and luck. I happen to be on the sad side of luck, in most aspects of this game. That is one of the reasons I also prefer decks that allow me to come back from behind. I generally always tend to be behind, I am not lucky at drawing perfect curves, so I fall behind early game. By playing control and such, I am already prepared for that so I can come back in the game. This is not very relevant, except for the problem that the stealing cards have a really high tendency to fuck me over with their outcomes, even if their probabilities are low. (Couple days ago I decide to accept facing a Dragon Priest, basically, from 2 Drakonid Operatives, the opponent manage to get burn spells from my deck, when I had 20 cards left and only 3 damage spells left. I find it low probabilities, but still, they get them) So while it's unlikely they will steal Jaraxxus, with the way these cards always play against me, it's the most likely outcome :/

No, I truly wish that the unfavourable outcomes were very rare occurences. You would need to sit through all my games against Priest to realize just how unlucky I get against them. Do you think a long time ago I started keeping Ice Blocks in Freeze Mage starting hand just because I want to? No, it's just because they steal it so frequently that my best chances to beat them is simply keeping it in starting hand. (Which is generally the wrong decision as their chances to steal the Block are very low, in theory)

Shaman has always, since launch, had a sort of viable Midrange style.

I never played Magic. I played Yu-Gi-Oh, but actual cards that allowed to steal were banned from play, so it didn't matter, you couldn't use them.

Mind Control silences and destroys a minion from your opponent while also creating that exact same minion for you. This is usually a 3 for 1, that's outvalueing the opponent really hard. Entomb is basically the same thing, but adds the minion as a card in your deck, still 3 for 1. Cabal Shadow Priest does the same. Another cool example, Potion of Madness. This card easily 4 for 1 your opponent. You generally kill 2 minions with it, while also removing the effect of one of them from your opponent and gaining it for yourself. 4 for 1, with a 1 mana card. Ridiculous value.

Well I don't think it's really my perception alone. From all I've known of Warcraft, Priests identity is about Healing and the Shadow abilities. Stealing is a very tiny portion of the class. In Hearthstone, stealing is a pretty substancial part of the class while Shadow Priest is basically almost nothing. Doesn't make much sense to me. Added to the fact that those stealing cards are extremely infuriating to play against, I find it a problem.

Also the fact that Dragon Priest has some serious problems on the balance side. The majority of it's cards are all very high stated. This paired with their abilities help the Priest snowball extremely hard and to an extent which is almost impossible to counter.

Quote from Ensaru64 >>

 Blizzard just doesn't know how to implement the shadowpriest mechanics without making the class completely broken, or making the cards completely useless. They have tried many times already (Shadowbomber, Shadowboxer, Embrace the Shadow, Excavated Evil, Spawn of Shadows), but they're usually not very flavourful and just end up being removals or stealing stuff. Judging from the cost of Shadowform alone, Blizzard is wary of giving Priest the Shaman treatment. I hope that changes in this upcoming expansion. Priest is my favourite class, so I'm definitely getting his Undead form.

Quote from CypherBenkes >>

Quote from AngryShuckie >>

If one had to go I would remove mage, but I'd much rather just make it so fireball can't target heroes (especially with all the nonsense spell generation they have now).

You would change one of Mage's ONLY burst tools so it can't target heroes? Ice Lance is out. Mage doesn't have strong minions. Antonidas is as revered a Mage minion because it produces one of Mage's most important cards. That's just insulting and pathetic that'd you make an entire class suffer just because of your personal gripes with the card's ability. It's like taking Preparation from Rogue. You just don't do that.