@DiamondDM13; I guess I should clarify, Control's misplay wasn't really due to a lack of information and I'll concede that. However, what I'm stating is that you (as the spectator) have an easier job, full stop. You don't need to deal with pressure because you're not playing, you don't need to deal with stamina because you're not required to play or even pay attention, and you're not required to work through lines with limited information turn after turn. Not knowing anything about the tournaments you've entered or how you've placed, it's not a matter of not focusing more than on ladder as much as having an inordinate amount of pressure and fatigue alongside it.
Maybe you're not on a high-horse, but you've clearly looked at the misplay in a vacuum and judged a player on it. It's simple to you because you took a slice out of a long tournament and held it up as a red flag asking "how could this person possibly ever hit Legend?". People misplay, and even the best players still screw up monumentally; from the rest of what I saw in that tournament, Control actually had stellar play. Outside of the tournament he's been consistently top 10 I believe and produced multiple write ups on the state of the meta and his own tier lists. And to boot, while Freeze is really good in Wild... it's really not all that common in my experience, especially with something like Spellbreaker only just getting back into the meta and Freeze Mage still being relatively rare on ladder.
People like to position how they view the world in a way that makes them feel superior in my experience, and unfortunately that makes for skewed analysis. "Legend = purely a time sink", "Legend = all skill", etc. kind of arguments are flawed because they're basing it on intentionally narrowed examples.
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Yes and no. Yes in the sense that if you improve constantly and learn to play well, you can make it. No in the sense that a bad player can get there without improving or learning to play well just by playing enough games. Some people seem to think if you jump up and down on your keyboard all day, you'll eventually make it. Not the case.
People that say that it's "only time" to get to legend have obviously never done it.
Sure, you need time... but there's a lot more to it than that. You need to understand the meta and certain matchups. Even in Aggro matchups... it's not just "aim at face LUL".
It is simple math that not everyone can get to legend: You need a winrate of above 50% on ranks 5+. If there are people with a 50%+ winrate means that there must be people that have a below 50% winrate which will not get to legend.
I think you suffer from the latter option I gave. Of course People make mistakes on legend, everyone does. But I do not think that you know who the average Player is anymore. The friend who brought me to hearthstone played a LOT, and he never got past rank 12. And that is the majority of the casual hearthstone Players. And These People will never get to rank 5, let alone legend.
Of course, everyone can get to legend if someone else is playing for them. But Joe average does not have the time for 1000 games a month nor the skill to successfully Play with a higher winrate against the competition on rank 5+. There is a reason why only a couple of thousand People out of a few million active Players reach legend. Because it is not as easy as the regular legend Player thinks.
I mean, there are some kind of mistakes you don't make and that I can't imagine someone at legend rank doing. There's the lack of attention errors, like say, playing Reno then using life tap (not talking about full hand scenarios), and then there are errors like the one I posted in another thread. You play Hunter's Mark on my minion then use Ironbeak Owl to silence it and expect your Knife Juggler to Juggle it. I expect any legend player to know that the minion will be back at full health once you silence it, the juggle will never kill it (unless it's a 1 HP minion, wasn't the case...). I mean, what is the excuse a legend player has for that. And it's not like he did that by impulse, he actually thought a few seconds before doing it.
And it doesn't generally take 1000 games to get legend. I mean I can believe some of those players I've faced did take around 1000 games to reach legend, but in general I don't expect players to take more than 300 games, even that is quite a lot... I can assume currently, with a diverse meta, it can take longer since you can't just counterpick the popular decks many times, but still...
I mean, haven't you had those times when after the game you think: "How could I mess this up?". Sometimes if I play when I'm a bit tired, I can make such obvious misplays. Usually when those happen, I'm done with the game for that day. Also sometimes I play when on bus, while in school, when talking to my friends etc, which can draw my attention away from the game and can make me misplay. And I have been on legend, even though I don't play that much. When I feel good and when I am paying attention to my plays, I usually play decent and I usually don't missplay, but in some circumstances I might feel like an idiot after the game,
not everyone can even reach rank 5 not to mention legend. For many people who can do it, it is still a struggle which requires a lot of games and frustration after losing at high ranks. What people dont realise is losses are much more painful at rank 1-3 than 10-5. Also, details matter very much, ones who lose even 1 game in 20 because of lack of knowledge of meta decks, will have to play a lot more, because 52% win ratio, and 55% makes a huge difference. With 52% you need to play over 1200 games, while with 55% little more than 500. and these 3% are these 3 games in a 100 you lost because 'you should have expected this flamestrike'.
I've played hundreds of games and still haven't gotten the dust to rock with most of the top tier meta. "I don't expect players to take more than 300 games" is a very surprising statement. Can you explain further?
I've played hundreds of games and still haven't gotten the dust to rock with most of the top tier meta. "I don't expect players to take more than 300 games" is a very surprising statement. Can you explain further?
That statement isn't referring to how long it will take to collect the necessary cards. It's saying that if you have a tier 1 deck right now, you can achieve Legend in about 300 games in a calendar month if you have the ability to achieve a win rate meaningfully above 50% with it in ranks 5-1.
I've been playing since Beta, started try harding during BRM. I have never hit Legend. Every couple of months I'll take the time out to try hard and play meta decks, and the best I've ever done was Rank 3 playing 10 games a day. While I see some streamers I follow hit Legend in just 180ish games. I've played over 200 in a month and not even gotten close. Most seasons I play 2-3 games a day to knock out quests, and I usually end up around Rank 8-10.
There are 3 things a player needs to hit legend in this game, ill put them in order of least to most importance.
Time : You have to be able to play at least 200 games in the given month you are going for legend, i don't know what the least possible amount of games someone has hit legend in but id imagine somewhere in the ballpark of 150games, If you can't hit the minimum number of games, there isn't really a possibility of legend.
Skill : "skill" in this game really just translates to knowledge of the current meta and knowledge of how to play your deck in the current meta. If you have it, you can get legend. You also have to have knowledge of how the ladder works. Its much harder to grind high at the beginning of months after resets. The majority of those games should be mid-late month unless you're fortunate to not have any time constraints.
Mindset : In my opinion this is the most important. The psychology of some people that play the game is the sole reason they will never hit legend. Many people get terrible anxiety even hitting the queue button on the ladder. Many people over analyze everything and switch decks constantly every 2-3 games never to aquire the skill level they will need with any one deck to get there. Many people make excuses of bad matchups, rng, bad draws, rigged matchmaking and anything to basically make themselves feel like its not them....its "the man" (blizzard) holding them back. The reality is all these things are equal for everyone and their mindset leads to them "giving up" and throwing out the "i don't care" line even though you know damn well they do. They are not mentally strong enough to break through these barriers. Usually to do it involves taking at hit to their pride, which some just can't do.
Anyone who can build the top tier meta decks and devotes enough time to the task can reach legend. There is a skill factor of course but the skill cap is reached relatively quickly once you understand the top tier decks of the meta. The rest is decided by the question whether you want to do a lot of grinding to get from rank 5 to legend.
The most funny people are those who always say : " I would hit legend if I would have the time to play many games because it is just a matter of time" but actually that is just the poorest excuse - those will never hit it :D
This is a fairly tough question to answer, and feels almost like a "yes" and "no" at the same time. But ultimately it comes down to the simple idea that in order for you to make it, you need to win and therefore someone needs to lose. Because you need more than and 50% win-rate, that essentially means your opponent (as a whole, not individual) has a sub-50%.
If you were to ask this question around the early period of this game the answer without a doubt would have been "no." Skill and time (to a lesser extent) were all that you needed. But the one thing that has changed the most since this game was released is "RNG" or "luck."
The amount of RNG that exists in the game now versus then has increased dramatically. And it is exactly that change, that has skewed the belief that almost anyone can reach legend. Skill is still the single greatest determinant for reaching Legend, but collectively I believe "luck" and "time" have an equal if not bigger slice of the pie.
Looking at today's meta, nearly every class uses the Discover mechanic or has some way to generate cards that did not exist in their deck. Some of these are easier to test/play around like Paladin's secrets, but there are other example that make it nearly impossible to know. Rogue's theft mechanic, Mage's random spell generation (sometimes at a discount), Priest with the potential for both. Even Shaman with Evolve and Devolve mechanics can completely influence the outcome of the game. The Adapt mechanic is also something that you can't exactly account for.
Its because there is so much variance now in the game, that it feels like almost anyone can reach Legend given the time. No longer do you necessarily need more skill than your opponent, sometimes you just need better luck.
TL;DR --> The answer is "NO," but there is a gray area that almost makes it feel like a "yes."
No, only about 1 in 200 players will have the patience, discipline, and aptitude to pull it off. There is just a lot that goes into the game and to reach legend, you will need a strong command of many aspects.
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@DiamondDM13; I guess I should clarify, Control's misplay wasn't really due to a lack of information and I'll concede that. However, what I'm stating is that you (as the spectator) have an easier job, full stop. You don't need to deal with pressure because you're not playing, you don't need to deal with stamina because you're not required to play or even pay attention, and you're not required to work through lines with limited information turn after turn. Not knowing anything about the tournaments you've entered or how you've placed, it's not a matter of not focusing more than on ladder as much as having an inordinate amount of pressure and fatigue alongside it.
Maybe you're not on a high-horse, but you've clearly looked at the misplay in a vacuum and judged a player on it. It's simple to you because you took a slice out of a long tournament and held it up as a red flag asking "how could this person possibly ever hit Legend?". People misplay, and even the best players still screw up monumentally; from the rest of what I saw in that tournament, Control actually had stellar play. Outside of the tournament he's been consistently top 10 I believe and produced multiple write ups on the state of the meta and his own tier lists. And to boot, while Freeze is really good in Wild... it's really not all that common in my experience, especially with something like Spellbreaker only just getting back into the meta and Freeze Mage still being relatively rare on ladder.
People like to position how they view the world in a way that makes them feel superior in my experience, and unfortunately that makes for skewed analysis. "Legend = purely a time sink", "Legend = all skill", etc. kind of arguments are flawed because they're basing it on intentionally narrowed examples.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
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Yes and no. Yes in the sense that if you improve constantly and learn to play well, you can make it. No in the sense that a bad player can get there without improving or learning to play well just by playing enough games. Some people seem to think if you jump up and down on your keyboard all day, you'll eventually make it. Not the case.
People that say that it's "only time" to get to legend have obviously never done it.
Sure, you need time... but there's a lot more to it than that. You need to understand the meta and certain matchups. Even in Aggro matchups... it's not just "aim at face LUL".
I think the answer is yes, given that the player is in tryhard mode and willing to spend plenty of time
It is simple math that not everyone can get to legend: You need a winrate of above 50% on ranks 5+. If there are people with a 50%+ winrate means that there must be people that have a below 50% winrate which will not get to legend.
I haven't actively tried, but I am fairly sure it will never happen for me. And that is fine.
not everyone can even reach rank 5 not to mention legend. For many people who can do it, it is still a struggle which requires a lot of games and frustration after losing at high ranks. What people dont realise is losses are much more painful at rank 1-3 than 10-5. Also, details matter very much, ones who lose even 1 game in 20 because of lack of knowledge of meta decks, will have to play a lot more, because 52% win ratio, and 55% makes a huge difference. With 52% you need to play over 1200 games, while with 55% little more than 500. and these 3% are these 3 games in a 100 you lost because 'you should have expected this flamestrike'.
Reaching legend is: 10% luck,20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure and 50% pain.
I've played hundreds of games and still haven't gotten the dust to rock with most of the top tier meta. "I don't expect players to take more than 300 games" is a very surprising statement. Can you explain further?
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Of course not, otherwise it wouldn't be only the top 0.02% of players.
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I've been playing since Beta, started try harding during BRM. I have never hit Legend. Every couple of months I'll take the time out to try hard and play meta decks, and the best I've ever done was Rank 3 playing 10 games a day. While I see some streamers I follow hit Legend in just 180ish games. I've played over 200 in a month and not even gotten close. Most seasons I play 2-3 games a day to knock out quests, and I usually end up around Rank 8-10.
No.
There are 3 things a player needs to hit legend in this game, ill put them in order of least to most importance.
Time : You have to be able to play at least 200 games in the given month you are going for legend, i don't know what the least possible amount of games someone has hit legend in but id imagine somewhere in the ballpark of 150games, If you can't hit the minimum number of games, there isn't really a possibility of legend.
Skill : "skill" in this game really just translates to knowledge of the current meta and knowledge of how to play your deck in the current meta. If you have it, you can get legend. You also have to have knowledge of how the ladder works. Its much harder to grind high at the beginning of months after resets. The majority of those games should be mid-late month unless you're fortunate to not have any time constraints.
Mindset : In my opinion this is the most important. The psychology of some people that play the game is the sole reason they will never hit legend. Many people get terrible anxiety even hitting the queue button on the ladder. Many people over analyze everything and switch decks constantly every 2-3 games never to aquire the skill level they will need with any one deck to get there. Many people make excuses of bad matchups, rng, bad draws, rigged matchmaking and anything to basically make themselves feel like its not them....its "the man" (blizzard) holding them back. The reality is all these things are equal for everyone and their mindset leads to them "giving up" and throwing out the "i don't care" line even though you know damn well they do. They are not mentally strong enough to break through these barriers. Usually to do it involves taking at hit to their pride, which some just can't do.
speed, momentum, violence
Anyone who can build the top tier meta decks and devotes enough time to the task can reach legend. There is a skill factor of course but the skill cap is reached relatively quickly once you understand the top tier decks of the meta. The rest is decided by the question whether you want to do a lot of grinding to get from rank 5 to legend.
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You talk as if there were not anybody who wants to be legend but cannot do it. Just want it and be legend. That easy?
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No, not everyone can hit legend.
The most funny people are those who always say : " I would hit legend if I would have the time to play many games because it is just a matter of time" but actually that is just the poorest excuse - those will never hit it :D
This is a fairly tough question to answer, and feels almost like a "yes" and "no" at the same time. But ultimately it comes down to the simple idea that in order for you to make it, you need to win and therefore someone needs to lose. Because you need more than and 50% win-rate, that essentially means your opponent (as a whole, not individual) has a sub-50%.
If you were to ask this question around the early period of this game the answer without a doubt would have been "no." Skill and time (to a lesser extent) were all that you needed. But the one thing that has changed the most since this game was released is "RNG" or "luck."
The amount of RNG that exists in the game now versus then has increased dramatically. And it is exactly that change, that has skewed the belief that almost anyone can reach legend. Skill is still the single greatest determinant for reaching Legend, but collectively I believe "luck" and "time" have an equal if not bigger slice of the pie.
Looking at today's meta, nearly every class uses the Discover mechanic or has some way to generate cards that did not exist in their deck. Some of these are easier to test/play around like Paladin's secrets, but there are other example that make it nearly impossible to know. Rogue's theft mechanic, Mage's random spell generation (sometimes at a discount), Priest with the potential for both. Even Shaman with Evolve and Devolve mechanics can completely influence the outcome of the game. The Adapt mechanic is also something that you can't exactly account for.
Its because there is so much variance now in the game, that it feels like almost anyone can reach Legend given the time. No longer do you necessarily need more skill than your opponent, sometimes you just need better luck.
TL;DR --> The answer is "NO," but there is a gray area that almost makes it feel like a "yes."
No, only about 1 in 200 players will have the patience, discipline, and aptitude to pull it off. There is just a lot that goes into the game and to reach legend, you will need a strong command of many aspects.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.