First of all this is not a "game is dead" thread, but rather a discussion about the direction the game is taking and how some unused ideas could be damaging for the game.
Many times in card games some mechanics are left behind because they aren't as effective as the developers expected them to be or they are unhealthy for the longevity of the game, However many of the mechanics that Hearthstone left behind through his expansions hold a great deal of potential and one can't help but wonder why they were left behind so quickly.
In most cases Blizzard has decided to favour racial card synergies (Dragons, Murloc, Pirates, Elementals, Totems) and some basic deck archetypes that were already popular in the game (Control Warrior Warrior, Zoolock, Control Priest, etc.)
For example does anyone remember how weak Inspire and Joust felt, mostly because these cards didn't have "enablers" such pirates having weapons, Silver Hand Recruits having cards that buff and spawn them, "Holding a Dragon" getting more and more dragons to proc the battlecry effect, etc. In recent expansion we have seen clever and interesting mechanics be forgotten in the next expansion or never expanded upon. For example the "menagerie effect" from cards like the Zoobot and Menagerie Magician. In MGG it seemed like the perfect time to put this kind of synergy with the Hunter class (for example) but instead Blizzard pushed "buff you hand" mechanic and it never went nowhere for Hunter, for example Trogg Beastragger is at most a 4/3 for a specific tribe while Grimestreet Outfitter can be a 4/4 easily. The Trogg could be a 2/2 "Give a random, Beast, Dragon, and Murloc in your hand +1/+1/" and not much about the card power level would change, but it could enable a new archetype for Hunter, same Stealh cards introduced in MGM, they aren't bad cards but It made no sense to release them at that point (When Rogue had many identities unfulfilled (Such as adding cards from a different class, Pirate or Jade Golems). Luckydo Buccaneer is a strong tempo card, but there isn't any reliable support for it and it ends up being a -harder to enable" Drakonid Crusher.
Also what happened to the tri-class cards? Where they mean to be ONLY for MGG? I get that lore wise it makes sense, but what is the point of waisting a HUGE game development possibility just to add more flavor to the game?
I think that each expansion having it's own mechanic is something that makes each expansion feel unique and different. Although some of the mechanics are very fun or felt unused, they still made their specific expansion more unique and different and continuing these mechanics in new expansions makes the expansion and the mechanic feel less special.
It feels like Joust and Inspire were mis-interpreted as bad mechanics, when it was the cards themselves that didn't take advantage of the mechanics. In particular Joust. A mechanic which should benefit decks with a higher curve, gives both players insight into a card still within each other's decks...sounds great. But the cards were so bad if the Joust wasn't won that most were unplayable. Of those playable, King's Elekk was a 2 mana 3/2 in an aggressive class...that's perfectly fine if you don't win the Joust. If more were fairly-statted in every case it would have went over nicely.
Not that some mechanics that didn't pan out shouldn't be left behind. Not a single person will miss Jades when they rotate out: the mechanic was stupid and uninteresting from the start. Quests turned out pretty poor - 7 are unplayable bad, 1 tolerable but disliked by many, 1 abomination that might be the worst thing they've ever released. Maybe worth another look, but missing that badly again would be hard to stomach.
And the opposite of leaving behind underappreciated mechanics: they tend to overdo mechanics that are well received at the start. Discover was great on Dark Peddler and Jeweled Scarab. Then they continued to release more and more Discover cards each set, the power level increased, the variance in effects increased, and now the most dreaded words in Hearthstone are "Created by". Reno would be the other - people loved the highlander mechanic. It was cool when you realized on turn 5 that you've seen two borderline cards and someone might randomly be playing a Reno deck. Then it quickly shifted to unbearable when they decided "People love Reno decks! Let's push it further!" and made Renozakus decks the only viable control decks in the meta for four months.
It feels like Joust and Inspire were mis-interpreted as bad mechanics, when it was the cards themselves that didn't take advantage of the mechanics. In particular Joust. A mechanic which should benefit decks with a higher curve, gives both players insight into a card still within each other's decks...sounds great. But the cards were so bad if the Joust wasn't won that most were unplayable. Of those playable, King's Elekk was a 2 mana 3/2 in an aggressive class...that's perfectly fine if you don't win the Joust. If more were fairly-statted in every case it would have went over nicely.
Not that some mechanics that didn't pan out shouldn't be left behind. Not a single person will miss Jades when they rotate out: the mechanic was stupid and uninteresting from the start. Quests turned out pretty poor - 7 are unplayable bad, 1 tolerable but disliked by many, 1 abomination that might be the worst thing they've ever released. Maybe worth another look, but missing that badly again would be hard to stomach.
And the opposite of leaving behind underappreciated mechanics: they tend to overdo mechanics that are well received at the start. Discover was great on Dark Peddler and Jeweled Scarab. Then they continued to release more and more Discover cards each set, the power level increased, the variance in effects increased, and now the most dreaded words in Hearthstone are "Created by". Reno would be the other - people loved the highlander mechanic. It was cool when you realized on turn 5 that you've seen two borderline cards and someone might randomly be playing a Reno deck. Then it quickly shifted to unbearable when they decided "People love Reno decks! Let's push it further!" and made Renozakus decks the only viable control decks in the meta for four months.
I agree that mechanics that are harmful for the game should be left behind. like you say Inspire and Joust cards stats were so bad that people couldn't afford to take the risk of playing them. On the other hand I feel that not pushing for old mechanics like those wastes the potential of cards with "Brann" type effects, imagine how different if back in TGT was a card that read "Your Inspire effect trigger twice"
I think leaving expansion-themed mechanics like tri-class cards limited to their own expansion is fine. Like Ben Brode said, that makes each expansion feel fresh.
However, I feel that certain class mechanics are under-explored, for example, Warrior's <= 12 hp mechanic (we only have Mortal Strike and Revenge). Why do Warlocks not have more cards that benefit from self-damage, besides Floating Watcher? Expanding more on each class having its own unique mechanics would give each class its own distinct identity.
This is one of the areas that I feel other card games are way superior at. Playing the same archetype with different classes feels different because you have to utilize the different mechanics of each class, whereas in Hearthstone, playing for example aggro, feels pretty much the same across all classes - dump hand, go face.
At least Hearthstone has slightly improved in this area, with the introduction of Quests in Ungoro. However, the Quests are pretty much limited to 1 deck. Class mechanics should be something that can be applied across multiple decks/archetypes.
If there trying to make each expansion feel fresh on top of keeping the game simplified , would they run out of ideas?
What new mechanics can they come up with?
I dunno maybe something with player hand? shuffling hand & deck, exchange card with random enemy card in hand, discard random enemy card from hand/deck. I believe that weapon are underrated, rogue, hunter, paladin, warrior don't get playable new weapon aside from sulfuras which specific to quest warrior.
PS: Enraged are underrated too...
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First of all this is not a "game is dead" thread, but rather a discussion about the direction the game is taking and how some unused ideas could be damaging for the game.
Many times in card games some mechanics are left behind because they aren't as effective as the developers expected them to be or they are unhealthy for the longevity of the game, However many of the mechanics that Hearthstone left behind through his expansions hold a great deal of potential and one can't help but wonder why they were left behind so quickly.
In most cases Blizzard has decided to favour racial card synergies (Dragons, Murloc, Pirates, Elementals, Totems) and some basic deck archetypes that were already popular in the game (Control Warrior Warrior, Zoolock, Control Priest, etc.)
For example does anyone remember how weak Inspire and Joust felt, mostly because these cards didn't have "enablers" such pirates having weapons, Silver Hand Recruits having cards that buff and spawn them, "Holding a Dragon" getting more and more dragons to proc the battlecry effect, etc. In recent expansion we have seen clever and interesting mechanics be forgotten in the next expansion or never expanded upon. For example the "menagerie effect" from cards like the Zoobot and Menagerie Magician. In MGG it seemed like the perfect time to put this kind of synergy with the Hunter class (for example) but instead Blizzard pushed "buff you hand" mechanic and it never went nowhere for Hunter, for example Trogg Beastragger is at most a 4/3 for a specific tribe while Grimestreet Outfitter can be a 4/4 easily. The Trogg could be a 2/2 "Give a random, Beast, Dragon, and Murloc in your hand +1/+1/" and not much about the card power level would change, but it could enable a new archetype for Hunter, same Stealh cards introduced in MGM, they aren't bad cards but It made no sense to release them at that point (When Rogue had many identities unfulfilled (Such as adding cards from a different class, Pirate or Jade Golems). Luckydo Buccaneer is a strong tempo card, but there isn't any reliable support for it and it ends up being a -harder to enable" Drakonid Crusher.
Also what happened to the tri-class cards? Where they mean to be ONLY for MGG? I get that lore wise it makes sense, but what is the point of waisting a HUGE game development possibility just to add more flavor to the game?
How do you all feel about this?
I think that each expansion having it's own mechanic is something that makes each expansion feel unique and different. Although some of the mechanics are very fun or felt unused, they still made their specific expansion more unique and different and continuing these mechanics in new expansions makes the expansion and the mechanic feel less special.
It feels like Joust and Inspire were mis-interpreted as bad mechanics, when it was the cards themselves that didn't take advantage of the mechanics. In particular Joust. A mechanic which should benefit decks with a higher curve, gives both players insight into a card still within each other's decks...sounds great. But the cards were so bad if the Joust wasn't won that most were unplayable. Of those playable, King's Elekk was a 2 mana 3/2 in an aggressive class...that's perfectly fine if you don't win the Joust. If more were fairly-statted in every case it would have went over nicely.
Not that some mechanics that didn't pan out shouldn't be left behind. Not a single person will miss Jades when they rotate out: the mechanic was stupid and uninteresting from the start. Quests turned out pretty poor - 7 are unplayable bad, 1 tolerable but disliked by many, 1 abomination that might be the worst thing they've ever released. Maybe worth another look, but missing that badly again would be hard to stomach.
And the opposite of leaving behind underappreciated mechanics: they tend to overdo mechanics that are well received at the start. Discover was great on Dark Peddler and Jeweled Scarab. Then they continued to release more and more Discover cards each set, the power level increased, the variance in effects increased, and now the most dreaded words in Hearthstone are "Created by". Reno would be the other - people loved the highlander mechanic. It was cool when you realized on turn 5 that you've seen two borderline cards and someone might randomly be playing a Reno deck. Then it quickly shifted to unbearable when they decided "People love Reno decks! Let's push it further!" and made Renozakus decks the only viable control decks in the meta for four months.
CCGing since '98.
I think leaving expansion-themed mechanics like tri-class cards limited to their own expansion is fine. Like Ben Brode said, that makes each expansion feel fresh.
However, I feel that certain class mechanics are under-explored, for example, Warrior's <= 12 hp mechanic (we only have Mortal Strike and Revenge). Why do Warlocks not have more cards that benefit from self-damage, besides Floating Watcher? Expanding more on each class having its own unique mechanics would give each class its own distinct identity.
This is one of the areas that I feel other card games are way superior at. Playing the same archetype with different classes feels different because you have to utilize the different mechanics of each class, whereas in Hearthstone, playing for example aggro, feels pretty much the same across all classes - dump hand, go face.
At least Hearthstone has slightly improved in this area, with the introduction of Quests in Ungoro. However, the Quests are pretty much limited to 1 deck. Class mechanics should be something that can be applied across multiple decks/archetypes.
If there trying to make each expansion feel fresh on top of keeping the game simplified , would they run out of ideas?
What new mechanics can they come up with?