Instead of all of this change to Buzzard, didn't all you need to do is make UTH summon ghost hounds? If UTH didn't summon beasts, card draw would come back into a normal range and not be a problem.
Instead of all of this change to Buzzard, didn't all you need to do is make UTH summon ghost hounds? If UTH didn't summon beasts, card draw would come back into a normal range and not be a problem.
Because they didn't want to admit that the change to UTH was useless, and change a card that they just changed.
In WoW they used to nerf an op class to the ground and leave it that way even if it had become total crap in both pvp and pve. It's their philosophy, they don't backtrack or admit mistakes very easily.
Instead of all of this change to Buzzard, didn't all you need to do is make UTH summon ghost hounds? If UTH didn't summon beasts, card draw would come back into a normal range and not be a problem.
this would not be only nerf to card draw, but to board clear with timber wolf or combo with hound master etc etc ... UTH not being beasts would have soooooooo much more impact on hunter then u think
Instead of all of this change to Buzzard, didn't all you need to do is make UTH summon ghost hounds? If UTH didn't summon beasts, card draw would come back into a normal range and not be a problem.
The problem is when they changed the original UTH from its broken state to the new state they intended for it to be used the way it was being used. What they didnt realize is that people would then have to play less minions in order to negate this draw effect. They didnt like that. Considering they have made it known they want this game to be heavily minion focused. Kinda cant do that with something that gives such a huge advantage for playing the game as intended. As it stands cult master is now a better minion for UTH.
the Leeroy nerf is reasonable and I actually expect to see more mages in the meta as a result of that change. The Buzzard nerf is unreal. 5 mana for a 3/2? I don't care what ability it has, that is an unplayable card. Buzzard was not broken, the Buzzard + UTH combo was. I agree with others who said that the summoned hounds should not be beasts and that would have been a better solution.
I think that the Buzzard nerf would be reasonable if it had better stats, say a 3/3 or a 3/4 or a 2/4? Compare to Gadgetzan, which is a stronger draw engine but requires stricter deckbuilding, is 5 mana and is a 4/4. Alternately, make it a 3 or 4 mana 3/2.
I don't think Hunters are totally dead from this but it does sure hurt them a lot and Buzzard is overnerfed.
Glad I'm not the only one who finds Buzzard unreasonable, even if the hunter meta was horrendous. It should be 2/4, if not 3/4, or it should have been rebalanced to activate on beast death, or it should be 4 mana with the appropriate stats. Buuuuuut, too late now. Everyone's interested to see what happens to the meta, but personally I'm interested to see what sort of hunter decks rise from the dead now. Will it be decks that don't bother with Buzzard, or maybe don't even bother with UTH either? Or will they make the ridiculous 3/2 for 5 actually work out? We shall see...
Leeroy change seems pretty solid, although you gotta wonder where this change was, what, 9 months ago?
Instead of all of this change to Buzzard, didn't all you need to do is make UTH summon ghost hounds? If UTH didn't summon beasts, card draw would come back into a normal range and not be a problem.
As it stands cult master is now a better minion for UTH.
Not strictly better. The buzzard draws immediately so if you use UTH you can draw for your hunter's mark, but if you use the cult master you have to start attacking your doggies into a big taunt minion to try to draw a hunter's mark. The cult master is better with an already developed board, but they function differently. If the playstyle shifts from UTH then the cult master should be better despite the beast synergy with the buzzard.
While I personally think the way to attack the Hunter domination is through nerf of Mad Scientist/Flare, I can at least swallow the Buzzard nerf slightly. I personally think drawing at end of turn, when a beast dies, or increasing from 2 mana to 3 to delay the combo are all better solutions. It is a combo that requires 2 cards, as well as saturated enemy board, as well as drawing Hunters Marks. Blizzard did not at all let the post naxx paint dry long enough to see if there were options around it. Eitherway the real bummer is Leeroy.
Leeroy, which is the win condition of Miracle, is pretty much trashed now. It's more than just changing his combo costs for the SS combo. What you have to realize is that Miracle had been suffering to even stay above 50% win rate against current meta decks post Naxx thanks to Belcher and Loatheb as well as the heavy early game from many decks using deathrattle face synergies.
Miracle NEEDED the ability to dish out a heavy burst past a taunt using SAP with the Leeroy combo. Now the combo for Leeroy sap is no longer 8, it's 10! For 12 damage with a sap! No room is here to toss in CB. Also where you could do 2 SS Leeroy 18 damage with sap before, you now can't even DO a sapless 18 damage burst. Also any other combinations that you could have end game such as an eviscerate with Leeroy Combo, or SS with Leeroy combo is now more expensive.
What Blizzard has effectively done by nerfing Buzzards and Leeroy is nerfing Backspace Rogue, Miracle Rogue, Face Hunter, and Midrange Hunter. While these decks can still be played, the statistical damage done to their win rates will ensure they are sub par in the meta at higher ranked play. In my opinion, it is the existence of these decks that "set the tone" by smashing through the front door and saying "I have a shotgun pointed at your face, your move" that makes the game fun. Removing these creates a situation where the only real consistent burst deck is Zoo... and zoo is... well it's zoo. Ugh.
I feel the game will turn to a more minion rumbling board controlly meta game after this patch.... which honestly is completely boring. It's linear gameplay that doesn't allow for creative combos or alternative win conditions with viability. (It's more than being able to put together a combo in a deck, it's having it viable at higher ranked play).
I've been mulling on this for awhile, and I don't think this nerf is as bad as its face value is making it out to be. Sure 5 mana is a lot, but that 1 health and attack matters in a ton of matchups. No longer can priests steal your buzzard, and no longer will it die to hero powers, 1 wild pyromancer aoe, whirlwind, death's bite's deathrattle, or cruel taskmaster. You put that thing behind a taunt later on in the game when some removal has already been used, and it could be effective, in theory. It might also be better with snake trap now. I think the buzzard could be a good one-of in more controlly hunter decks.
I think it'd be better to make leeroy perhaps die right after he attacks (eliminate shadow step nonsense but zoo lock still a problem) or give him veil and +2 attack (still good damage, can still be faceless'd, but can't buff him to OTK status or just about)
The leeroy nerf annoys me because Miracle rogue doesnt feel like a problem on ladder anymore. Those who stil play it is because they like the deck, not because its super OP (Atleast i think thats why) but can still win
The leeroy nerf should have been made when miracle was a problem, not 2 months after it stopped being the top dawg
honestly, how often do we see none hunter Leeroy kills now? and how often does he actual do 20 dmg?
And about using him as removal. If they dont use him as removal at 4 mana, why would they at 5? Even fireball is in decline and its 4 mana, doesnt give whelps and cant get taunted
Miracle rogue was indeed a problem on the ladder. They never went away, in fact... just to somewhere else. They all went to high legend.
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I played Hunter before it was cool.
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I doubt priests will get a nerf any time soon. And if they did they can't nerf it so bad they are unplayable.
Maybe if they weren't in last place for win rates for the past 5 seasons.
http://hearthstats.net/aug
Not sure if hyped yet.
Instead of all of this change to Buzzard, didn't all you need to do is make UTH summon ghost hounds? If UTH didn't summon beasts, card draw would come back into a normal range and not be a problem.
Because they didn't want to admit that the change to UTH was useless, and change a card that they just changed.
In WoW they used to nerf an op class to the ground and leave it that way even if it had become total crap in both pvp and pve. It's their philosophy, they don't backtrack or admit mistakes very easily.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
this would not be only nerf to card draw, but to board clear with timber wolf or combo with hound master etc etc ... UTH not being beasts would have soooooooo much more impact on hunter then u think
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sad that its true
Who needs buzzard? Just take the game late and have three King Krushes ready.
The problem is when they changed the original UTH from its broken state to the new state they intended for it to be used the way it was being used. What they didnt realize is that people would then have to play less minions in order to negate this draw effect. They didnt like that. Considering they have made it known they want this game to be heavily minion focused. Kinda cant do that with something that gives such a huge advantage for playing the game as intended. As it stands cult master is now a better minion for UTH.
the Leeroy nerf is reasonable and I actually expect to see more mages in the meta as a result of that change. The Buzzard nerf is unreal. 5 mana for a 3/2? I don't care what ability it has, that is an unplayable card. Buzzard was not broken, the Buzzard + UTH combo was. I agree with others who said that the summoned hounds should not be beasts and that would have been a better solution.
let me change your mind...
I think that the Buzzard nerf would be reasonable if it had better stats, say a 3/3 or a 3/4 or a 2/4? Compare to Gadgetzan, which is a stronger draw engine but requires stricter deckbuilding, is 5 mana and is a 4/4. Alternately, make it a 3 or 4 mana 3/2.
I don't think Hunters are totally dead from this but it does sure hurt them a lot and Buzzard is overnerfed.
Glad I'm not the only one who finds Buzzard unreasonable, even if the hunter meta was horrendous. It should be 2/4, if not 3/4, or it should have been rebalanced to activate on beast death, or it should be 4 mana with the appropriate stats. Buuuuuut, too late now. Everyone's interested to see what happens to the meta, but personally I'm interested to see what sort of hunter decks rise from the dead now. Will it be decks that don't bother with Buzzard, or maybe don't even bother with UTH either? Or will they make the ridiculous 3/2 for 5 actually work out? We shall see...
Leeroy change seems pretty solid, although you gotta wonder where this change was, what, 9 months ago?
Not strictly better. The buzzard draws immediately so if you use UTH you can draw for your hunter's mark, but if you use the cult master you have to start attacking your doggies into a big taunt minion to try to draw a hunter's mark. The cult master is better with an already developed board, but they function differently. If the playstyle shifts from UTH then the cult master should be better despite the beast synergy with the buzzard.
While I personally think the way to attack the Hunter domination is through nerf of Mad Scientist/Flare, I can at least swallow the Buzzard nerf slightly. I personally think drawing at end of turn, when a beast dies, or increasing from 2 mana to 3 to delay the combo are all better solutions. It is a combo that requires 2 cards, as well as saturated enemy board, as well as drawing Hunters Marks. Blizzard did not at all let the post naxx paint dry long enough to see if there were options around it. Eitherway the real bummer is Leeroy.
Leeroy, which is the win condition of Miracle, is pretty much trashed now. It's more than just changing his combo costs for the SS combo. What you have to realize is that Miracle had been suffering to even stay above 50% win rate against current meta decks post Naxx thanks to Belcher and Loatheb as well as the heavy early game from many decks using deathrattle face synergies.
Miracle NEEDED the ability to dish out a heavy burst past a taunt using SAP with the Leeroy combo. Now the combo for Leeroy sap is no longer 8, it's 10! For 12 damage with a sap! No room is here to toss in CB. Also where you could do 2 SS Leeroy 18 damage with sap before, you now can't even DO a sapless 18 damage burst. Also any other combinations that you could have end game such as an eviscerate with Leeroy Combo, or SS with Leeroy combo is now more expensive.
What Blizzard has effectively done by nerfing Buzzards and Leeroy is nerfing Backspace Rogue, Miracle Rogue, Face Hunter, and Midrange Hunter. While these decks can still be played, the statistical damage done to their win rates will ensure they are sub par in the meta at higher ranked play. In my opinion, it is the existence of these decks that "set the tone" by smashing through the front door and saying "I have a shotgun pointed at your face, your move" that makes the game fun. Removing these creates a situation where the only real consistent burst deck is Zoo... and zoo is... well it's zoo. Ugh.
I feel the game will turn to a more minion rumbling board controlly meta game after this patch.... which honestly is completely boring. It's linear gameplay that doesn't allow for creative combos or alternative win conditions with viability. (It's more than being able to put together a combo in a deck, it's having it viable at higher ranked play).
when does this become effective
The 22nd.
ya i think it was a over nerf on buzzard maybe make it so playing hounds does not effect buzzard and leave it has a 2 mana 2/1
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I've been mulling on this for awhile, and I don't think this nerf is as bad as its face value is making it out to be. Sure 5 mana is a lot, but that 1 health and attack matters in a ton of matchups. No longer can priests steal your buzzard, and no longer will it die to hero powers, 1 wild pyromancer aoe, whirlwind, death's bite's deathrattle, or cruel taskmaster. You put that thing behind a taunt later on in the game when some removal has already been used, and it could be effective, in theory. It might also be better with snake trap now. I think the buzzard could be a good one-of in more controlly hunter decks.
I ki da wish I crafted something else when I made my Leroy... Maybe a rag. Now I will be happy to make that trade. I think rag is better now anyways
Holy crap I just DE'ed an extra Leroy that I pulled 3 days ago..... so pissed!!!
I think it'd be better to make leeroy perhaps die right after he attacks (eliminate shadow step nonsense but zoo lock still a problem) or give him veil and +2 attack (still good damage, can still be faceless'd, but can't buff him to OTK status or just about)
Miracle rogue was indeed a problem on the ladder. They never went away, in fact... just to somewhere else. They all went to high legend.
I played Hunter before it was cool.