Well its official Blizzard finally decided to take action to Leeroy Jenkins as well as the most abused draw combo in the game. Both of these changes came for a very good reason. Speaking from experience, I abused both mechanics so often it was disgusting. So lets review and see what exactly these changes will do.
Now I start with this one as it is only a half nerf. When Blizzard changed the original Starving buzzard almost 10 months ago, they turned it from a 2/2 drawing engine to a 2/1 drawing engine for 2 mana. What this meant was you had no way of getting any value from it post the turn it came out, unlike Northshire Cleric. So the change from 2 mana to 5 mana is a tad extreme and may have to be adjusted later, however its not a bad thing. As a 3/2 it has a little more survivable, however with only 2 life its still pretty vunerable to every 1 drop spell thus taunting to protect it is not an option. Now the draw combo we all know and love has also gone to crap by this. Before turn 4(coin) turn 5 you could clear the board and get card draw. Because of this no one played explosive shot, and players facing against hunters would keep their minion count on the board around 3. Now however Hunters are going to have to find other ways of getting what they need, this will not be as big of a problem as many seem to think. Hunters already have flare one of the most over powered abilities in the game. 1 mana kill a secret, expose stealth, draw a card. This card is beyond value. Next is Tracking. draw three pick 1 toss away 2. This is a pretty powerful ability when you think about.
Now hunters will have to change up how they do things 180 degrees. I predict the return of face rush type decks or possibly even secret control based decks. Another option is pet tanking. By this I mean a ton of taunts or taunt givers to deny all minion attacks and relying on secrets, weapon and hero power to slow burn them down, though this one is very unlikely as hunters lack and burst spell damage with out beast.
If you thought this guy was never gonna change you have not been paying attention. Miracle rogue depended on this guy for so much and now it seems he will be retired from that build as the combo most are use to now cost 10 mana to do 20 damage. While 2 damage for 1 mana is still pretty good, its still probably going to fade away from play some what especially when arcane golem is now 2 mana cheaper. Handlocks are probably going to take Arcane golems. using 2x Power overwhelming they can rack out 24 damage using a faceless manipulator. Now this change may end up retiring Leeroy for a bit, do not be shocked when he comes out of no where in a Shaman deck. For 9 mana he can hit for 24 damage. Throw in a flame tongue already in play and your looking at 28 damage. So at least in Shaman he still has some play. Other option I see for Leeroy is to use him as a primer for Sea giants, however this only works if you have some stuff on the board already, and even then its not gonna be any where as effective 5 mana to reduce by 3.
So is the the end of Leeroy Jenkins? No. While his use is going to retreat somewhat I think people are still going to try and make this guy work, more as a utility removal option. I mean he is a one card solution to some of the more annoying minions in the game, Druid of the Claw, Water elemental, Baron Gedon. Depending on the class he is in he can still be used as a super fireball, just not as broken as he use to be. Really that 1 mana change will do alot. Hell even Warlocks will still use them in zoo designs simply cause its still a possible pyroblast but now costing 6 mana.
Conclusion
The changes were long over due, and I think we are going to see yet another shift in play style. However with these changes it makes you wonder if they are looking at some other draw and burst mechanics. Priest and druid, get ready for it. You know your next on that list. With out these two cards effecting the meta as much as it has been I see a rise in heavy minion tempo decks...AKA zoo. Some more face rush decks, and priest pretty much stay the same and keep on trolling as they have been. Where do you think the meta will shift once these changes go through.
Even as an occasional Hunter player, I'm glad to see Buzzard nerfed hard. It was gone beyond boring either facing, or performing the same old trick on turn 5 [imagine, it used to be 4!] - no deck should rely on one OP mechanic. I'm also delighted, if not more so, to see Leeroy hit. Now they should hit the auctioneer so miracle players actually have to start thinking.
So is the the end of Leeroy Jenkins? No. While his use is going to retreat somewhat I think people are still going to try and make this guy work, more as a utility removal option. I mean he is a one card solution to some of the more annoying minions in the game, Druid of the Claw, Water elemental, Baron Gedon. Depending on the class he is in he can still be used as a super fireball, just not as broken as he use to be. Really that 1 mana change will do alot. Hell even Warlocks will still use them in zoo designs simply cause its still a possible pyroblast but now costing 6 mana.
Leeroy Jenkins as a removal? The only time I saw him used as removal, it was an absoulte desperation and together with Shadowflame. The reason? 2 whelps for your opponent to buff next turn, think of token druid or zoo... He does not even kill the minions you mentioned mana efficiently, compare him Big Game Hunter and The Black Knight. I think you are completely off there.
delete the hunter as class hero,just do it ,focktards at blizzard,its not needed anymore nerfing card from 2 to 5 , the idiotism in this decision can not be expressed! first the UTH then the weapon bow now the buzzard just go fock yourselfs
The only good thing these hunter crazes has done, is keeping zoo at check, as both are equally annoying to play against.
Try another class, there are some good ones out there! If you feel sad, then look up how mage fell from the top-class-to-beat-everyone-complained-about in early december last year to near extinct in february due to nerfs...
I find it interesting that Buzzard was nerfed harder than Leeroy. Blizzard must have considered that draw combo MORE of a gamer breaker than the Leeroy combo. Leeroy outright won games, Buzzard plus UTH and Timber Wolf was often a board clear at 6 mana, and usually gave massive card draw too. Not a game WINNER, but definitely set up the Hunter with a lot more options.
I think we'll see way more secrets-based hunters....which will increase the cries for a Neutral secret removal.
The Hunter deck will HAVE to change. Instead of depending on that one mechanic for card draw (face it, how many Hunter decks were running a Loot Hoarder or Auctioneer?) Hunters are going to have to change.
Leeroy on the other hand, while a staple in many decks built SPECIFICALLY around burst face damage, has not had his MECHANIC changed. He still does what he does, just for one more mana. The Coin takes care of that, but it definitely slows the tempo down. If you see a Rogue holding onto the Coin into late game, you can suspect a Leeroy combo in the future.
That being said, it makes it too situational to use effectively. You can't guarantee you're going to GET that coin, so basing a deck around it is going to guarantee you're going to lose 50% of your games, if you depended solely on that for your win. Leeroy is still a powerful card...he'll still see use, but his utility has been decreased and people are going to need to discover new ways to use him.
the thing is this game is getting boring day by day,hunter was fun to play seriously fun it had high win rate but i dont care about wining the fun factor was important for me,nerfing a card from 2 to 5 is outrageous,it does not matter if its hunter or any class,basically now hunter can be deleted as class hero
Buzzards are weak and die easily against any small spell or minion. They aren't great by themselves: they need not only the UTH, but also the enemy field full of minions. Considering that the only mass removal that hunters have is fire trap, I do not think it's that much OP for hunters - personally, I think that Hyenas are worse than both.
That's what usually happens when people play agains hunters: they keep 1-2 minions in the board and save removals for turn 5 or when the bird hits the table, whatever comes first. Ok, might be hard for an aggro deck, but many combo or control decks take care of that without any problems.
The problem has more to do with lack of other strategies being used by hunters than by card drawing, IMO. Nobody would ever consider taking those birds from the deck.
I think 5 mana for a 3/2 its a bit overpriced for a minion that can be killed by a 2 damage spell. Maybe 4 mana, a cantrip a 2/3 or even 1/4 would make it worth to play - hard to put in the table, but once it hits, it would stay there for a while.
There is no fun factor for an opponent that cant play his minions though. I must agree that 5 mana is too drastic, even though i hate hunters with all my heart. 4 mana 3/3 is what they should have done in my opinion.
I'm sitting at rank 14 just now and on my climb this season I've never faced 2 hunters in a row, and I find myself playing (and losing) to interesting decks designed to counter the aggro Hunters and Warlocks. I lost on turn 5 yesterday to a super aggressive mage who dominated the board by turn 3 and finished me off with reduced cost spells.
The Buzzard nerf was needed but I feel the stats for the cost are a bit too poor, 3 health would help keep it alive, playing a 5 mana card that will only last 1 turn is really quite steep!
However you feel, it'll be interesting to see how these changes affect the game.
I think making bussard a 4 mana with 3/2 or if 5 mana is really necessary 5 mana with 2/3 would be far better; but 5 mana for a 3/2 is really underwhelming. But yes, the card-draw-mechanic with bussard was far too overpowered: when i play against a hunter, my deck had still 15 cards while the other one already was fatigued. And this was far stronger than anything, even more than Northshire-cleric that requires a lot of cards (far more than buzzard+uth) and a lot of preperation for an insane card draw.
But i can understand the nerf: The tactic against a hunter was: never set more than 2 cards at the same time on the board. This was not really fun.
But TheChiv, if you think that the card draw of Priests will be nerfed, then you are really wrong: Priest have some insane card draw yes, but compared to hunter this is nothing. Also priest are not so extreme dominating any meta that a change there is really necessary for now. To pull of an insane card draw as a Priest, you need far more cards than any hunter needed: Hunter can draw insame amounts in turn 4-5, 6-7 they even get an high buffed hyena as a real bonus. To pull this off as a priest, you need either a full board or some combos together with wild pyromancer, and then don't forget that circle of healing even heals the enemies; while you pull and pull and do damage with the hounds that can together with a hunters mark can destroy solo big minions or do insane amounts of damage together with a Timber wolf.
actually nerfing buzzard hard was the correct decision and a game winner, you must be really new to tcgs if you don't understand it, i'll explain you the basic tcg equation.
Synergy+draw engine=cheap card draw= drawing cards faster= going through your deck faster= drawing your win condition faster= deck consistency
with that said Buzzard was way too consistent so it deserved the nerf
I think making bussard a 4 mana with 3/2 or if 5 mana is really necessary 5 mana with 2/3 would be far better; but 5 mana for a 3/2 is really underwhelming. But yes, the card-draw-mechanic with bussard was far too overpowered: when i play against a hunter, my deck had still 15 cards while the other one already was fatigued. And this was far stronger than anything, even more than Northshire-cleric that requires a lot of cards (far more than buzzard+uth) and a lot of preperation for an insane card draw.
But i can understand the nerf: The tactic against a hunter was: never set more than 2 cards at the same time on the board. This was not really fun.
But TheChiv, if you think that the card draw of Priests will be nerfed, then you are really wrong: Priest have some insane card draw yes, but compared to hunter this is nothing. Also priest are not so extreme dominating any meta that a change there is really necessary for now. To pull of an insane card draw as a Priest, you need far more cards than any hunter needed: Hunter can draw insame amounts in turn 4-5, 6-7 they even get an high buffed hyena as a real bonus. To pull this off as a priest, you need either a full board or some combos together with wild pyromancer, and then don't forget that circle of healing even heals the enemies; while you pull and pull and do damage with the hounds that can together with a hunters mark can destroy solo big minions or do insane amounts of damage together with a Timber wolf.
Oh I know but one thing I have learned from blizzard is in other games when they change one aspect of something they have been known to apply this to others...We say it with the buff trio, so its something im not overly expecting, however all it takes is a million complaints about it to cause issues.
The buzzard I understand due to domination of the meta by hunters, but Leroy can't understand the timing.
Wondered that too. Quite possible they were finding it difficult to design some of the new cards they wanted to add in the "100 card expansion" knowing they had to design around a card like Leeroy. It's always been right on the edge, and if some new incoming spell makes it a bit better it's time to summon the nerf bat.
Still a fantastic card, btw, just gotta last a little longer before finishing the other guy off.
Oh I know but one thing I have learned from blizzard is in other games when they change one aspect of something they have been known to apply this to others...We say it with the buff trio, so its something im not overly expecting, however all it takes is a million complaints about it to cause issues.
That's true, but the card draw mechanic of priests is totally different from Hunters: Hunter does not need board control to get a bazillion of cards, while priests need it. Because even if Priest does not have board control and draw some crazy shenanigan with Northshire and Wild Pyromancer, does this not change the problem that even with many cards priests cannot gain board control as fast as a Hunter. Also to get off some crazy hunter-combos does use only a few cards, while priests need specific and much more cards to pull it off.
Does it mean that maybe in the long future Northshire might get the same threatment? No, but compared to Hunter i don't see them in this place in the near future. For this Priests would need as many useful class cards as Hunter have (looking at Lightwell, Lightspawn, Temple Enforcer, Divine Spirit, Inner Fire)
Especially when Handlocks might get much more popular since Hunters are declining and they really are a real PITA for priests.
Well its official Blizzard finally decided to take action to Leeroy Jenkins as well as the most abused draw combo in the game. Both of these changes came for a very good reason. Speaking from experience, I abused both mechanics so often it was disgusting. So lets review and see what exactly these changes will do.
Starving Buzzard
Now I start with this one as it is only a half nerf. When Blizzard changed the original Starving buzzard almost 10 months ago, they turned it from a 2/2 drawing engine to a 2/1 drawing engine for 2 mana. What this meant was you had no way of getting any value from it post the turn it came out, unlike Northshire Cleric. So the change from 2 mana to 5 mana is a tad extreme and may have to be adjusted later, however its not a bad thing. As a 3/2 it has a little more survivable, however with only 2 life its still pretty vunerable to every 1 drop spell thus taunting to protect it is not an option. Now the draw combo we all know and love has also gone to crap by this. Before turn 4(coin) turn 5 you could clear the board and get card draw. Because of this no one played explosive shot, and players facing against hunters would keep their minion count on the board around 3. Now however Hunters are going to have to find other ways of getting what they need, this will not be as big of a problem as many seem to think. Hunters already have flare one of the most over powered abilities in the game. 1 mana kill a secret, expose stealth, draw a card. This card is beyond value. Next is Tracking. draw three pick 1 toss away 2. This is a pretty powerful ability when you think about.
Now hunters will have to change up how they do things 180 degrees. I predict the return of face rush type decks or possibly even secret control based decks. Another option is pet tanking. By this I mean a ton of taunts or taunt givers to deny all minion attacks and relying on secrets, weapon and hero power to slow burn them down, though this one is very unlikely as hunters lack and burst spell damage with out beast.
Leeroy Jenkins
If you thought this guy was never gonna change you have not been paying attention. Miracle rogue depended on this guy for so much and now it seems he will be retired from that build as the combo most are use to now cost 10 mana to do 20 damage. While 2 damage for 1 mana is still pretty good, its still probably going to fade away from play some what especially when arcane golem is now 2 mana cheaper. Handlocks are probably going to take Arcane golems. using 2x Power overwhelming they can rack out 24 damage using a faceless manipulator. Now this change may end up retiring Leeroy for a bit, do not be shocked when he comes out of no where in a Shaman deck. For 9 mana he can hit for 24 damage. Throw in a flame tongue already in play and your looking at 28 damage. So at least in Shaman he still has some play. Other option I see for Leeroy is to use him as a primer for Sea giants, however this only works if you have some stuff on the board already, and even then its not gonna be any where as effective 5 mana to reduce by 3.
So is the the end of Leeroy Jenkins? No. While his use is going to retreat somewhat I think people are still going to try and make this guy work, more as a utility removal option. I mean he is a one card solution to some of the more annoying minions in the game, Druid of the Claw, Water elemental, Baron Gedon. Depending on the class he is in he can still be used as a super fireball, just not as broken as he use to be. Really that 1 mana change will do alot. Hell even Warlocks will still use them in zoo designs simply cause its still a possible pyroblast but now costing 6 mana.
Conclusion
The changes were long over due, and I think we are going to see yet another shift in play style. However with these changes it makes you wonder if they are looking at some other draw and burst mechanics. Priest and druid, get ready for it. You know your next on that list. With out these two cards effecting the meta as much as it has been I see a rise in heavy minion tempo decks...AKA zoo. Some more face rush decks, and priest pretty much stay the same and keep on trolling as they have been. Where do you think the meta will shift once these changes go through.
Even as an occasional Hunter player, I'm glad to see Buzzard nerfed hard. It was gone beyond boring either facing, or performing the same old trick on turn 5 [imagine, it used to be 4!] - no deck should rely on one OP mechanic. I'm also delighted, if not more so, to see Leeroy hit. Now they should hit the auctioneer so miracle players actually have to start thinking.
I still see many miracle rogues, and they still depend on that broken mechanic. I'm delighted!
Leeroy Jenkins as a removal? The only time I saw him used as removal, it was an absoulte desperation and together with Shadowflame. The reason? 2 whelps for your opponent to buff next turn, think of token druid or zoo... He does not even kill the minions you mentioned mana efficiently, compare him Big Game Hunter and The Black Knight. I think you are completely off there.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Triple leeroy is actually 11 mana, not 10, which makes the play impossible unless you're holding the coin.
shamans dont need leeroy we got alkir ;)
The only good thing these hunter crazes has done, is keeping zoo at check, as both are equally annoying to play against.
Try another class, there are some good ones out there! If you feel sad, then look up how mage fell from the top-class-to-beat-everyone-complained-about in early december last year to near extinct in february due to nerfs...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I find it interesting that Buzzard was nerfed harder than Leeroy. Blizzard must have considered that draw combo MORE of a gamer breaker than the Leeroy combo. Leeroy outright won games, Buzzard plus UTH and Timber Wolf was often a board clear at 6 mana, and usually gave massive card draw too. Not a game WINNER, but definitely set up the Hunter with a lot more options.
I think we'll see way more secrets-based hunters....which will increase the cries for a Neutral secret removal.
The Hunter deck will HAVE to change. Instead of depending on that one mechanic for card draw (face it, how many Hunter decks were running a Loot Hoarder or Auctioneer?) Hunters are going to have to change.
Leeroy on the other hand, while a staple in many decks built SPECIFICALLY around burst face damage, has not had his MECHANIC changed. He still does what he does, just for one more mana. The Coin takes care of that, but it definitely slows the tempo down. If you see a Rogue holding onto the Coin into late game, you can suspect a Leeroy combo in the future.
That being said, it makes it too situational to use effectively. You can't guarantee you're going to GET that coin, so basing a deck around it is going to guarantee you're going to lose 50% of your games, if you depended solely on that for your win. Leeroy is still a powerful card...he'll still see use, but his utility has been decreased and people are going to need to discover new ways to use him.
the thing is this game is getting boring day by day,hunter was fun to play seriously fun it had high win rate but i dont care about wining the fun factor was important for me,nerfing a card from 2 to 5 is outrageous,it does not matter if its hunter or any class,basically now hunter can be deleted as class hero
Buzzards are weak and die easily against any small spell or minion. They aren't great by themselves: they need not only the UTH, but also the enemy field full of minions. Considering that the only mass removal that hunters have is fire trap, I do not think it's that much OP for hunters - personally, I think that Hyenas are worse than both.
That's what usually happens when people play agains hunters: they keep 1-2 minions in the board and save removals for turn 5 or when the bird hits the table, whatever comes first. Ok, might be hard for an aggro deck, but many combo or control decks take care of that without any problems.
The problem has more to do with lack of other strategies being used by hunters than by card drawing, IMO. Nobody would ever consider taking those birds from the deck.
I think 5 mana for a 3/2 its a bit overpriced for a minion that can be killed by a 2 damage spell. Maybe 4 mana, a cantrip a 2/3 or even 1/4 would make it worth to play - hard to put in the table, but once it hits, it would stay there for a while.
There is no fun factor for an opponent that cant play his minions though. I must agree that 5 mana is too drastic, even though i hate hunters with all my heart. 4 mana 3/3 is what they should have done in my opinion.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
I'm sitting at rank 14 just now and on my climb this season I've never faced 2 hunters in a row, and I find myself playing (and losing) to interesting decks designed to counter the aggro Hunters and Warlocks. I lost on turn 5 yesterday to a super aggressive mage who dominated the board by turn 3 and finished me off with reduced cost spells.
The Buzzard nerf was needed but I feel the stats for the cost are a bit too poor, 3 health would help keep it alive, playing a 5 mana card that will only last 1 turn is really quite steep!
However you feel, it'll be interesting to see how these changes affect the game.
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
I unpacked my second Leeroy not long ago... I am not complaining.
I think making bussard a 4 mana with 3/2 or if 5 mana is really necessary 5 mana with 2/3 would be far better; but 5 mana for a 3/2 is really underwhelming. But yes, the card-draw-mechanic with bussard was far too overpowered: when i play against a hunter, my deck had still 15 cards while the other one already was fatigued. And this was far stronger than anything, even more than Northshire-cleric that requires a lot of cards (far more than buzzard+uth) and a lot of preperation for an insane card draw.
But i can understand the nerf: The tactic against a hunter was: never set more than 2 cards at the same time on the board. This was not really fun.
But TheChiv, if you think that the card draw of Priests will be nerfed, then you are really wrong: Priest have some insane card draw yes, but compared to hunter this is nothing. Also priest are not so extreme dominating any meta that a change there is really necessary for now. To pull of an insane card draw as a Priest, you need far more cards than any hunter needed: Hunter can draw insame amounts in turn 4-5, 6-7 they even get an high buffed hyena as a real bonus. To pull this off as a priest, you need either a full board or some combos together with wild pyromancer, and then don't forget that circle of healing even heals the enemies; while you pull and pull and do damage with the hounds that can together with a hunters mark can destroy solo big minions or do insane amounts of damage together with a Timber wolf.
actually nerfing buzzard hard was the correct decision and a game winner, you must be really new to tcgs if you don't understand it, i'll explain you the basic tcg equation.
Synergy+draw engine=cheap card draw= drawing cards faster= going through your deck faster= drawing your win condition faster= deck consistency
with that said Buzzard was way too consistent so it deserved the nerf
I was talking about 2x leeroy 2x cold blood. 10 mana.
Leeroy still is better value over Alkir :)
Oh I know but one thing I have learned from blizzard is in other games when they change one aspect of something they have been known to apply this to others...We say it with the buff trio, so its something im not overly expecting, however all it takes is a million complaints about it to cause issues.
Wondered that too. Quite possible they were finding it difficult to design some of the new cards they wanted to add in the "100 card expansion" knowing they had to design around a card like Leeroy. It's always been right on the edge, and if some new incoming spell makes it a bit better it's time to summon the nerf bat.
Still a fantastic card, btw, just gotta last a little longer before finishing the other guy off.
That's true, but the card draw mechanic of priests is totally different from Hunters: Hunter does not need board control to get a bazillion of cards, while priests need it. Because even if Priest does not have board control and draw some crazy shenanigan with Northshire and Wild Pyromancer, does this not change the problem that even with many cards priests cannot gain board control as fast as a Hunter. Also to get off some crazy hunter-combos does use only a few cards, while priests need specific and much more cards to pull it off.
Does it mean that maybe in the long future Northshire might get the same threatment? No, but compared to Hunter i don't see them in this place in the near future. For this Priests would need as many useful class cards as Hunter have (looking at Lightwell, Lightspawn, Temple Enforcer, Divine Spirit, Inner Fire)
Especially when Handlocks might get much more popular since Hunters are declining and they really are a real PITA for priests.