I'm starting to think that I'm playing a different game o that people is playing a single game, face a rogue and log in the web page to complain.
"Just played six pw, three mages, two quest rogue..back to wild."
"A meta where Quest Rogue is tier 1 can't be considered a good meta."
"Then, 2 or 3 decks to play against into infinity. And when I created a deck to counter that archetype, another custom decks appears for the nothing to screw and can't event test it against the meta dominant ones."
"The variety of viable decks doesn't make up for it. I mean Aggro and Freeze Mage are already frustrating enough, but Quest Rogue is just annoying, dumb and uninnteractive. Taunt Warrior is somewhat silly as well. The overall experience has gone downhill since Karazhan."
And the list goes on.
Now that I finished my final exams and I had more time I played 350 games, that I think is an excellent sample size (Rank 20-Legend 230 games and 120 games in legend). Here are the statistics:
That makes a list of 4 Aggro decks, 5 Midrange decks, 5 Control decks and 3 Combo ones. Of those decks, the only polarized matchups (those where you already lost depending on the enemy deck) are:
Jade Druid-Control Priest
Quest Rogue-Control Priest
From a list of 17 playable decks (even more), only 3 of them are can be considered cancer (because they are uninteractive mainly) and can be countered by:
Now, here's my question: Why are people complaining? I've been playing since the launch of the game, i have 5000 wins in ranked and reached legend almost every season and I've NEVER seen a meta so diverse and healthy. The only class absent from the game is Warlock and expansion is expensive as hell but apart from that what can you say? All the expansion had a deck that ruled them all and had almost no real counters (and if they had been another 1 sided deck)
MSOG: Pirate Warrior/Aggro Shaman (Having Reno in turn six if you were alive)
So with stats in hand and the past in our minds, what do you have to say? How can someone say that that the current meta is wrong or anything similar I would like to hear those players that I quoted and listen to what they have to say?
Thank you for posting this. Im also tired of the bitching every1 is doing about the meta atm. I only have to say u forgot about combo druid with FoN and roar.
Quests being legendary and class cards really hurt the f2p player. They have to craft a specific card to make a specific archetype playable while they are limited to play that single deck in that single class. I think that making the quest cards lower rarity or making them obtainable through alternative ways could have been a better solution. If it were me, I would have made the quest available through specific ways related to the card text, for example:
You can't sum up a subjective thing like players' enjoyment of the game with cold hard stats. I understand that quest rogue isn't as popular as most people say and can be countered statistically but queuing into one still makes me want to stop playing hearthstone for the rest of the day
I wasn't around to experience undertaker hunter but I was totally fine with the ladder being infested with shamans, pirates or patrons. Playing against secret paladins was one of my favorite matches. In fact, before this expansion, I've never spoken out or complained about the meta. The only deck that ever makes me salty to any degree is the quest rogue. I can't definitively explain why. Perhaps it's that the process of losing to quest rogue impacts peoples' emotions harder than any other deck
I rate the meta based on how enjoyable it is to me. Right now, it's unenjoyable to the point where I have trouble doing all my dailies. This is the first season in a long time where I ranked in wild with an emotionless aggro deck for the season chest instead of TriHarding on the real ladder. If people like seeing 20 different kinds of viable decks on ladder, good for them. But it was never something that I cared about when considering my personal enjoyment of the meta
As someone who likes to build their own decks, it feels like the meta netdecks are far less unstoppable than in previous metas, and there's actually a lot of thought going into how you want to build/tech your deck.
See, as much as this is accurate, using statistics to tell people to shut up and be happy because "the decks that aren't fun to play or play against are counterable" is not a logical argument.
All that does is get more people debating about a whole lot of nothing. Quest Rogue is so brainless at times it hurts and is the most unenjoyable experience i've had since last expansion.
It doesn't matter how healthy the meta is if you can constantly run into different decks that upset people as soon as they play against it. It doesn't feel like a challenge, it feels like you are being dominated/dominant.
Bleh. More "stats" pulled out of the proverbial ass to attempt to validate an opinion. Sample sizes dont mean anything to some one that just qued into 4-5 quest rogues in a row. Or quest warrior. The meta isnt that diverse - its OK but its quite obvious that the quest decks are used more than any others and they are getting pretty irritating and OLD now. Yawn. For every interesting game I play there seems to be 5x more quest decks that I just auto concede to. Actually, this meta has caused me more auto-concedes that ever in the history of this game. Its so rocks, paper, scissors that there is no reason to even bother with any matchup thats unfavorable. Just get the fuck out of there with your sanity and hope you que up against a normal deck next time. Thats all you can do.
Aggro is at an all time high too because of the quests so that further mucks up the meta.
So, as much as people are tired of threads about complaining, we are also equally tired of posts trying to "sell" everyone on how wonderful everything is. And stop posting meaningless stats that dont mean shit to a tree. Thanks.
Its funny how people complain about meaningless stats that is like saying "Youre wrong because im right".
How can you say that the game is rock paper scizors if i allready showed that theres only 2 polarized match ups? Have you rode the post or just came to complain? How can you play that you face 4 rogues in a row? It is a 14% Rogue, so why are you wining? Apparently i only faced 14% rogues because everyone else is facing them for me.
i dont like the current state of the game and many factors contribute to it.
1.The more and more RNG factor implemented by blizzard.Mechanics like adapt and discover who can win u the game just by pure luck.
2.The unbalanced Quests.I remember having awesome games in the past playing my handlock vs control warriors/priests/mages.nowadays if i decide to play a control deck and im getting matched against a control warrior,its pretty much gg,not even jaraxus can stand a chance against that heropower...There has never been a unbeatable controldeck in a control matchup,but nowadays thx to that quest in a control matchup warrior will allways win.Same goes for the Rouge Quest,compared to other quests its totaly broken.(and by the way half of the decks u posted as counters for Rougue quest are incorrect,ive been playing a priest deck with 2x dragonfire pots,2x dirty rats,1xshadow vision and 2 pots of madness and its still a complicated game which can be won by both sides.)
And on the other hand we got those complete useless quests from hunter and warlock.
3.And the lack of diversity,i just played a smal sample of 10 games where i got matched 4 times against warrior(1 control warrior/3 pirates) 1 Mage(secret/tempo mage) 3 Quest rougues and 2 beasthunters(there is only 1 hunter deck currently the fact tat some ppl adapt 2 or 3 cards doenst change the deck,the core cards are still the same.Considering that there are acording to u 17 competitive decks out there shoudnt i have more randomized 10 games?
Also we have to take into consideration the point when u reach rank 5/10/15.Me for example my monthly goal is allways rank 5 and when i reach rank 5 i start testing out decks and trying diffrent stuff.I dont know how many ppl do this aswell but im sure it will also impact the diversity of decks.
More RNG factor? This is by far the expansion with less RNG. Adapt and Discover is a calculated RNG, you have a limited number of choices where you can choose which one choose, it will be rng if instead of choosing you only obtained a buff. With complains like that you only prove that you have no idea of the game or have ever played before Heartshtone until this expansion.
Also, if you apparently faced those decks, first of all i would like to see the numbers and real numbers that proves that you faced those decks only. If you faced 4 warriors lucky you mate, i faced only 10% of them, you must be facing all of them for me, like the other one that is facing all the rogues. I hopr that someone also face druids for me :) But it is really impressive that you missed o face fucking Druid and paladins that are by far the most played classes and the ones that domimates the ladder
If you only play 10 games dont come here and bitch about the game. Throwing a coing 10 times and getting 7 face means only that in your limited number of tries the variant is polariced by random factors more, but it doesnt make for a relevant fact. So as i said: I face 3 rogues and come here wining
See, as much as this is accurate, using statistics to tell people to shut up and be happy because "the decks that aren't fun to play or play against are counterable" is not a logical argument.
All that does is get more people debating about a whole lot of nothing. Quest Rogue is so brainless at times it hurts and is the most unenjoyable experience i've had since last expansion.
It doesn't matter how healthy the meta is if you can constantly run into different decks that upset people as soon as they play against it. It doesn't feel like a challenge, it feels like you are being dominated/dominant.
There are 3 decks that can ruin your experience, the rest are in a really healthy spot. Those 3 are 2 warrior decks and 1 rogue deck. There are 10% of warriors and 12% rogue (and 5% of them are miracle rogue) which means youre going to run against 17% of cancer decks. Wow. Again, have you ever played Hearthstone? Where 40% of the match up where shaman and the other 40% warriors? The fuck are you complaining people?
So why do we have quest rogue in tier 1 and midrange paladin as the best deck? Its true that the meta is aggro (because ladder is aggro by nature) but you have 13 freaking decks that are not aggro. Which is your complain? Why you started playing hearthstone so?
Im starting to think that people play games just to suffer and that the enjoyable experience for them is having a bad experience that can show how special they are and how critical their arguments are.
Im simply amazed how people come here with general complaints like "I FACED 4 QUEST ROGUES IN ROW" when i already showed that they are 12% of the ladder only (and they speak like if they were 40-50%)
Finally, the only real complain that you can have is "I dont like the meta" the same way that you may dont like a certain kind of food because of your particular taste. But saying that is in a bad state? Its a joke for me and all the players that already experienced the rest of expansions.
I would like to know why i said nothing. I showed the stats that proves those general complaints are false, the amount of variety that we have and the excellent state of the game that we have compared to the rest of expansions. I think that is a lot of saying for someone able to understand that they might be wrong and that numbers tell the truth, not like their complaints.
I think the main problem is this with the whiners (notice how I said whiners, not the ones who actually give constructive feedback): What the heck do you want Blizzard to do?!
Yes, I agree that things can go under constant improvement and yes, I agree that criticism is valuable.
However, noone here has suggested a suitable nerf. Nobody here has throughly explained the consequences of the nerfs. Nobody here understands that Blizzard can only effect the overall meta. Not 5 small games or a small perspective out of a million.
Sorry, I had to release that rant. I'm getting tired of the blatant, ill-mannered pessimism and lack of useful feedback here.
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I'm starting to think that I'm playing a different game o that people is playing a single game, face a rogue and log in the web page to complain.
"Just played six pw, three mages, two quest rogue..back to wild."
"A meta where Quest Rogue is tier 1 can't be considered a good meta."
22% Druids-10% Priest-10%Warrior-7%Hunter-14% Rogue-12% Mage-8% Shaman-15% Paladin-1% Warlock
Apart from Warlock, where are those numbers? How can you say that there's no diversity? Each class has at least two variants
Aggro Druid/Jade Druid (1 Aggro+1 "Midrange")
Silence Priest/Control Priest/Dragon Priest (1 Combo+1 Control/Midrange+1 Control)
Pirate Warrior/Quest Warrior (1 Aggro+1Control)
Midrange Hunter (1 Midrange or 1 Aggro)
Miracle Rogue/Quest Rogue (2 Combo)
Control Mage/Freeze Mage/Secret Mage (1 Control+1 Aggro/Midrange+1 "combo")
Elemental Shaman/Token Shaman (1 Control+1 Midrange)
Aggro Paladin/Midrange Paladin/Control Paladin (1 Aggro+1 Midrange+1 Control)
That makes a list of 4 Aggro decks, 5 Midrange decks, 5 Control decks and 3 Combo ones. Of those decks, the only polarized matchups (those where you already lost depending on the enemy deck) are:
Jade Druid-Control Priest
Quest Rogue-Control Priest
From a list of 17 playable decks (even more), only 3 of them are can be considered cancer (because they are uninteractive mainly) and can be countered by:
Quest Rogue: Aggro Druid, Pirate Warrior, Midrange Hunter, Midrange Paladin, Aggro Paladin, Control Mage
Pirate Warrior: Quest Warrior, Control Priest, Control Mage, Aggro Druid
Quest Warrior: Miracle Rogue, Dragon Priest, Quest Rogue, Jade Druid, Control Paladin, Midrange Paladin
Now, here's my question: Why are people complaining? I've been playing since the launch of the game, i have 5000 wins in ranked and reached legend almost every season and I've NEVER seen a meta so diverse and healthy. The only class absent from the game is Warlock and expansion is expensive as hell but apart from that what can you say? All the expansion had a deck that ruled them all and had almost no real counters (and if they had been another 1 sided deck)
Naxxramas: Undertaker (No counters)
GVG: Handlock/Face Hunter (Midrange Hunter/Control Warrior)
BRM: Patron Warrior (No counters)
TGT: Secret Paladin (Freeze Mage)
LOE: Secret/Midrange Paladin (Freeze Mage)
WOTOG: Midrange Shaman (No counters)
ONIK: Midrange Shaman (Counted by Maly Druid)
MSOG: Pirate Warrior/Aggro Shaman (Having Reno in turn six if you were alive)
So with stats in hand and the past in our minds, what do you have to say? How can someone say that that the current meta is wrong or anything similar I would like to hear those players that I quoted and listen to what they have to say?
Thank you for posting this. Im also tired of the bitching every1 is doing about the meta atm. I only have to say u forgot about combo druid with FoN and roar.
I never understood the argument of expansions being expensive. Yeah, how dare they make good Epics and Legendaries.
But I agree, this is without a doubt the best meta so far.
Quests being legendary and class cards really hurt the f2p player. They have to craft a specific card to make a specific archetype playable while they are limited to play that single deck in that single class. I think that making the quest cards lower rarity or making them obtainable through alternative ways could have been a better solution. If it were me, I would have made the quest available through specific ways related to the card text, for example:
Hunter: Play 100 one cost minions
Rogue: Play 70 minions with the same name
And the list goes on.
You can't sum up a subjective thing like players' enjoyment of the game with cold hard stats. I understand that quest rogue isn't as popular as most people say and can be countered statistically but queuing into one still makes me want to stop playing hearthstone for the rest of the day
I wasn't around to experience undertaker hunter but I was totally fine with the ladder being infested with shamans, pirates or patrons. Playing against secret paladins was one of my favorite matches. In fact, before this expansion, I've never spoken out or complained about the meta. The only deck that ever makes me salty to any degree is the quest rogue. I can't definitively explain why. Perhaps it's that the process of losing to quest rogue impacts peoples' emotions harder than any other deck
I rate the meta based on how enjoyable it is to me. Right now, it's unenjoyable to the point where I have trouble doing all my dailies. This is the first season in a long time where I ranked in wild with an emotionless aggro deck for the season chest instead of TriHarding on the real ladder. If people like seeing 20 different kinds of viable decks on ladder, good for them. But it was never something that I cared about when considering my personal enjoyment of the meta
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Players gonna' play, and whiners gonna' whine. Same as it ever was.
But I agree. This meta rocks :)
Better to be the hammer than the anvil or the metal shaped between.
This is not the "meta".
The meta is aggro or decks that counter aggro.
Meta is what decks are being played and how popular they are. Not what archtype is most prevalent
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
I've found the meta spectacular so far.
As someone who likes to build their own decks, it feels like the meta netdecks are far less unstoppable than in previous metas, and there's actually a lot of thought going into how you want to build/tech your deck.
See, as much as this is accurate, using statistics to tell people to shut up and be happy because "the decks that aren't fun to play or play against are counterable" is not a logical argument.
All that does is get more people debating about a whole lot of nothing. Quest Rogue is so brainless at times it hurts and is the most unenjoyable experience i've had since last expansion.
It doesn't matter how healthy the meta is if you can constantly run into different decks that upset people as soon as they play against it. It doesn't feel like a challenge, it feels like you are being dominated/dominant.
Let them bitch. If getting frustrated over video games is the worst of their problems, their complaints can't be worth very much.
Bleh. More "stats" pulled out of the proverbial ass to attempt to validate an opinion. Sample sizes dont mean anything to some one that just qued into 4-5 quest rogues in a row. Or quest warrior. The meta isnt that diverse - its OK but its quite obvious that the quest decks are used more than any others and they are getting pretty irritating and OLD now. Yawn. For every interesting game I play there seems to be 5x more quest decks that I just auto concede to. Actually, this meta has caused me more auto-concedes that ever in the history of this game. Its so rocks, paper, scissors that there is no reason to even bother with any matchup thats unfavorable. Just get the fuck out of there with your sanity and hope you que up against a normal deck next time. Thats all you can do.
Aggro is at an all time high too because of the quests so that further mucks up the meta.
So, as much as people are tired of threads about complaining, we are also equally tired of posts trying to "sell" everyone on how wonderful everything is. And stop posting meaningless stats that dont mean shit to a tree. Thanks.
I win due to skill and lose due to bad RNG. :D
Its funny how people complain about meaningless stats that is like saying "Youre wrong because im right".
How can you say that the game is rock paper scizors if i allready showed that theres only 2 polarized match ups? Have you rode the post or just came to complain? How can you play that you face 4 rogues in a row? It is a 14% Rogue, so why are you wining? Apparently i only faced 14% rogues because everyone else is facing them for me.
Im starting to think that people play games just to suffer and that the enjoyable experience for them is having a bad experience that can show how special they are and how critical their arguments are.
Im simply amazed how people come here with general complaints like "I FACED 4 QUEST ROGUES IN ROW" when i already showed that they are 12% of the ladder only (and they speak like if they were 40-50%)
Finally, the only real complain that you can have is "I dont like the meta" the same way that you may dont like a certain kind of food because of your particular taste. But saying that is in a bad state? Its a joke for me and all the players that already experienced the rest of expansions.
Meta is good and fun
AJAX AMSTERDAM
I think the main problem is this with the whiners (notice how I said whiners, not the ones who actually give constructive feedback): What the heck do you want Blizzard to do?!
Yes, I agree that things can go under constant improvement and yes, I agree that criticism is valuable.
However, noone here has suggested a suitable nerf. Nobody here has throughly explained the consequences of the nerfs. Nobody here understands that Blizzard can only effect the overall meta. Not 5 small games or a small perspective out of a million.
Sorry, I had to release that rant. I'm getting tired of the blatant, ill-mannered pessimism and lack of useful feedback here.