no, fuck that. i spent a lot of time and money getting classic cards. unless blizzard gives me a refund, fuck them. either spend the time farming classic packs or spend some fucking money. easy as that
You're literally saying you'd rather have a collection than more people to play the game with.....
See, here's the thing; card games are incredibly hard to get into, and adding in an arbitrary gate in the form of Classic just prevents new players coming in and competing. More players will always be better than fewer with money; that's why Legacy is often considered the most *fun* Magic format, but the least played because only people with millions can afford to play it.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't give everyone a Golden Classic set that've played the game since forever, but Classic is the best set to give away to get the new players. Anything else is simply pissing in the problem-wind, as it were.
You've just come across the real problem of the hearthstone community in general.
Most players are so selfish, they'd rather see the game destroyed than sacrifice their win rate etc.
Yeah, the problem with this is that for every one person in this thread who wouldn't mind giving new players something that they've had for years now, there will be five or ten more who agree with Jferr and Malt (let alone the 15 or 20 more people who just want the free stuff and don't care either way about "hard work" or entitlement).
Wish the world worked that way OP, I completely do. But... strokes and folks, I guess.
Eh, the problem isn't with the idea, it's more of the fact that the only people who post on forums are the ones who usually have more time and money than sense (And yes, I do include myself in that category).
So you are saying all my time , effort , money i invested for this game should mean nothing. No, fuck that.
All your time, money and effort you invested in this game actually do mean nothing if they can be striped away from you by handing other players a leg up in the game.
Here's a thing you probably don't realize; if you're not playing the game for the game, what you're doing is worthless.
Your collection? You can't do anything with it, you can't trade it, the moment Activision goes out of business and the servers get shut down it's all going to disappear anyway, Hearthstone 2 comes out? Your perfect collection you've put so much effort into disappears.
And the worst part? Wizards of the Coast or Konami go out of business and stop making the game? You'll still have all the cards available to play. Blizzard goes out of business? Everything goes.
Let's enjoy the game and let everyone enjoy it, and with more people enjoying it, the game lasts longer :D
Well im sure your solution is not the way . Giving them more packs is OK for new experience but giving them full classic cards ? No , that would be just too mean for old players. Also , i didnt like attidute that everything works like you think. You sound like a socialist...
I think a fair alternative to doling out free sets of cards would be allowing players access to free pre-constructed decks. the cards wouldn't be in their collection and they can't modify those decks. Let newbies play with tirion and antonidas for the wow factor and let them be somewhat competitive, but anyone who really wants to play with the big boys will have to grind a collection like anyone else. Eventually they'll want to customise decks and will either pay or grind to get those cards.
The decks obviously can't be top tier because you don't want everyone being able to grind rank 5 by just by playing shit on curve and getting on a couple of win-streaks, but they have to be okay, hopefully with some funky combos and concepts that an inquisitive mind would want to experiment with and expand upon.
I don't think giving out hundreds of cards to a new player will do anything other than confuse them more, particularly if they haven't come from a ccg background. New guys would have no idea what to do with all those free cards when they have no idea what 90% of them do, forcing them to do external research on how to get started. For a casual gamer, having to access external sources is a bigger barrier to entry than not having a full set imo.
I also can see both sides of the argument, though I would lean on the side that allows better introduction for new players. I really believe MANY more people would play this, but just can't afford to catch up. And with every expansion this problem only grows.
Since Blizz (and everyone else) is about the money (oh, rly?), perhaps a compromise instead of giving all new players all Classic cards.
5.99 for 50 packs (classic only), can be bought 5 times max? 9.99. for 50 packs (max 1 from each expansion/adventure)?
I'm just throwing numbers away, but hopefully the point is there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds"
Its a CCG, its supposed to be expensive. If you can't afford to pay for a boat, don't make sailing your hobby. People should be thankful that the posibility to be F2P even exists. Quest rewards should only be card backs and new heroes...
i disenchanted most of the wild legendaries to obtain the classics one because i was a new player and wasn't able to have a decent collection,now u're tellin' me they should give the set for free?
no problem,but i want all the adventures and wild cards i disenchanted back.as simple as that.
I dont really care about the topic, but as a dane i just wanted to tell you that socialisme works.
That's not a socialist country, it has socialist democracy which is an entirely different thing.
I stand corrected. Denmark dosen't have complete socialisme, but the partically, and the country in the world (After China) with the most pieces.
Socialisme means that the country provides all the jobs and produces all the nessities for its people. Whereas it unlike Communisme, allows te workers to have wages, so they can buy what they think is needed.
In Denmark around 80% of the workforce works for either the goverment in some form, or in goverment owned buisnesses, like the energy company Dong, (Which was sold to the United States earlier this year, but it is the most wellknown worldwide).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
How about a less extreme solution, in which you're rewarded say 5000 dust for getting all your heroes to Level 10 or 20? (Not immediately when you start playing, so that you don't spend it all at once on some flashy, but Magma Rager quality stuff.)
5000 dust allows you to build a couple of reasonable decks and grow your skills as you learn how to play these.
The way to improve the "New Player Experience" is not to give free stuff but for example, to give new players the option to filter the opponents they're playing against; allow matching up only against people without Legendaries in a deck, or against people who own 5, 10, or 25 Legendaries in their collection, or people who have been part of the game the same time as you etc...also, give us ingame statistics already -.-'
Blizzard takes away "wild packs" from the store. By accident? No. For a reason? Yes.
Blizzard introduces 3 expansion each year. Does it get more expensive? Yes
People expect that blizzard lowers the prices on old content packs, while those 2 examples i gave above completely nullifies that scenario.
Nothing in this game happens by accident, when we talk about marketing decisions. Not one thing. Not even the 3 free packs you get for logging in on expansion release is something they didnt think long about. Its astounding that people actaully come up with the ideas OP just made in this thread. In no possible scenario and in no point this game will exist that can nor should happen. Giving classic cards away for free? I mean come on,...seriously? I mean discussing possible senarios is fine and all, but this is not one of those. This is actually an impossible scenario that only would serve to completely destroy this game to the last inch.
Ok, while that all is most probably true, I think Blizz can say this isn't the optimal way to get the money (and get customers happy) if they sit and think for 2 minutes.
Like I said on page 3, add cheap decks in limited supply (per player) that are very cheap (compared to the prices we're used to). People with cards would probably still buy it for the dust. New players would buy it for cards.
They already added that 4.99 Welcome Pack or however it's called.
Same thing, different prices and type of packs and voila!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds"
this is a daring proposition that I definitively like, a bit too generous and bold but an amusing idea for sure. I really wouldn't like that every player has access to Handlock and Freeze Mage just like that, but to give away a decent sized numbers of usable cards from Classic would benefit everyone and likely spice up the variety. I mean, people might actually be inclined to build Shadowform decks if they actually didn't have to spend 2x legendaries to craft those!
the bigger problem in this picture really is the sickening, poisoned, conditioned responses you are getting in this thread by people who are basically with their dark thinking and passivity allowing for Hearthstone to be the most expensive (reminds me quite a lot of asian ccg/tcg pricings, surpassing even MTG) and new user unfriendly experiences out there. let's look at some of the common comments going through this thread;
'I had to grind for it, others should not get it for free' --- the most basic knee-jerk reaction of, well, jerks. these people if they were drowning I guess would pull down the others with them, because 'if they have to, then others should too!' while some compensation should be given, this is a sort of mentality that needs to be cured.
'that is not how economy works' --- ah, the experts. however, lots of other games are doing just fine while being far more generous at incentive towards new and old players alike. look at the numbers; Hearthstone has surpassed even physical card games in terms of pricing, and they're looking to up the ante here. it's these sort of sheepish 'baaaah it's how the system works' passive comments that allow this corporate behavior. I mean for god's sakes, Hearthstone hasn't even implemented a daily reward system! even greedy asian ccg/tcgs do that.
'nothing is wrong with the new user experience' --- nonsense, even the old player experience is poor. you could think this is all fine if you haven't been exposed to other games which are far more welcoming and rewarding, that just makes you very short sighted and lacking compassion and understanding. there are epics and legendaries in classic that I've never even seen from a pack, and I've been playing since Naxx and have spent some cash into the game. that is completely mental. after these years in the game there's still decks I am yet to build because of the horrible dust/rarity ratio! a new player is also forced into playing archetypes that he can afford, his rewards and progress are fairly limited per day, all in the faint hopes that someday some months away he'll actually be able to build a deck of his liking.
I could go on forever, but I gotta stop somewhere. in short, I believe the problem is in the players, then in the company behind the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
There's approx. 40m players world wide across all regions i doubt we need more players for the game to feel full.
And HS doesn't show server pops.
The kicker here is you can't support new players with free without snubbing your loyal longtime customers.
Think of it like a telecommunications company. They bait new customers with pre paid credit cards or bonus packages... Yet long time customers, often on contract, foot the bill with increased monthly charges.
Blizzard doesn't have it's HS player base on contract if they slight their loyal paying customers the bread and butter ultimately walks out.
Each expansion every player has to make decisions on how much gold/money to spend and where to spend it; new and old alike. Rotation in standard causes massive resets that mostly benefit new players by heavily reducing card pool.
Blizzard has already taken massive steps to helping new players, including the match making system matching new players with each other at similar WRs.
Honestly, blizzard has done alot already, the best way to benefit everyone, including new players, is make QOL improvements across the game. Not by disenfranchising portions of their player base by giving handouts to another.
And to all the welfare posts in this thread and forum. Blizzard is a business, paying customers>f2p. The fact the game can be enjoyed entirely f2p is a massive boon to those who do it. Time spent though =/= entitlement nor does being new mean you should be able to immediately play on the same field as someone with 1000's of hrs played and practiced.
I think the New Player Experience and the F2P experience are linked.
There are, at the moment 4 Expansions available. Exclude the Adventure and you have 3 Expansions and Classic. Lets assume 300 packs would get you 99% of the cards in an expansion and 500 for classic. (these are rough numbers, i know someone will probably correct them, but for the sake of argument lets use these numbers).
In Euro, it costs between €1.05 - €1.35 per pack depending on the numbers you get at a time. So lets say €1.10 on average. Hearthstone and the 3 card expansions costs €1,540 to Complete.
Now lets look at this year alone. 3 Expansion: - 900 Packs to complete - €990 this year alone.
Hearthstone isn't cheap. Now lets look at what they give you for free.
Quests: Lets say you can average a 60g quest a day and complete them all. That's 21,900g or 219 Packs. 1 Pack per week in Tavern Brawl (i wont count heroic TB), That's 52 Packs (though only classic packs) So you get about 271 packs out of 2,000 (5 expansion + classic) for free if you play every single day for the whole year.
Its not that much... when you factor that you playing a game every day for a year is giving a lot to the life and health of a game.
I do think blizzard need to do a few things with Hearthstone. 1. Give new players a boosted start. 5 Packs a day for the first month or something... 2. They need to stop new players from being ranked against veteran players. Perhaps a segregated beginner ladder based on card numbers. 3. They need to increase the daily rewards for all players (especially now that there are 3 full expansions this year). This could be daily login bonuses and login streak bonuses. If someone plays for a months straight, give them a random legendary! 4. Decrease the dust cost of wild cards, cause wild can be fun :D
In the end if someone is playing every day for a whole year, they should be getting at least 500 packs worth of content. A big community of small sales is better than a small community of big sales.
Now this has a cost, and i don't think blizzard should be focusing on just what they can give for free. To counter this i would add lots more cosmetic items for sale in the shop. Maiev could have been sold in the shop for €10 - €20 Euro and instead give every Ungoro player 10-20 Packs and i don't think many would have complained. Add custom boards, Heroes, Hero Powers, even custom skins and animations for cards (Card included in purchase ofc!).
Making the game cheaper to play but more expensive to customize would be a great way to reduce the cost to enter and still maintain revenue streams.
3 pages of discussion and no one realised that Blizzard needs to make money?
I think a fair alternative to doling out free sets of cards would be allowing players access to free pre-constructed decks. the cards wouldn't be in their collection and they can't modify those decks. Let newbies play with tirion and antonidas for the wow factor and let them be somewhat competitive, but anyone who really wants to play with the big boys will have to grind a collection like anyone else. Eventually they'll want to customise decks and will either pay or grind to get those cards.
The decks obviously can't be top tier because you don't want everyone being able to grind rank 5 by just by playing shit on curve and getting on a couple of win-streaks, but they have to be okay, hopefully with some funky combos and concepts that an inquisitive mind would want to experiment with and expand upon.
I don't think giving out hundreds of cards to a new player will do anything other than confuse them more, particularly if they haven't come from a ccg background. New guys would have no idea what to do with all those free cards when they have no idea what 90% of them do, forcing them to do external research on how to get started. For a casual gamer, having to access external sources is a bigger barrier to entry than not having a full set imo.
I also can see both sides of the argument, though I would lean on the side that allows better introduction for new players.
I really believe MANY more people would play this, but just can't afford to catch up. And with every expansion this problem only grows.
Since Blizz (and everyone else) is about the money (oh, rly?), perhaps a compromise instead of giving all new players all Classic cards.
5.99 for 50 packs (classic only), can be bought 5 times max?
9.99. for 50 packs (max 1 from each expansion/adventure)?
I'm just throwing numbers away, but hopefully the point is there.
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds"
I wish Blizzard gives everything free.
Dead but dreaming
Yeah I bought all the past WoW expansions the full amount, now they're giving them away for almost nothing. I am mad.
No really, who gives a damn, give it to everyone.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
And i would also like to point out that calling each other idiots rarely results in agreements, so keep it civil guys!
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
I think Blizzard should pay me to play the game
Top deck is cheat
Its a CCG, its supposed to be expensive. If you can't afford to pay for a boat, don't make sailing your hobby. People should be thankful that the posibility to be F2P even exists. Quest rewards should only be card backs and new heroes...
i disenchanted most of the wild legendaries to obtain the classics one because i was a new player and wasn't able to have a decent collection,now u're tellin' me they should give the set for free?
no problem,but i want all the adventures and wild cards i disenchanted back.as simple as that.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
How about a less extreme solution, in which you're rewarded say 5000 dust for getting all your heroes to Level 10 or 20? (Not immediately when you start playing, so that you don't spend it all at once on some flashy, but Magma Rager quality stuff.)
5000 dust allows you to build a couple of reasonable decks and grow your skills as you learn how to play these.
Auto squelch. That's all I'm asking for.
The way to improve the "New Player Experience" is not to give free stuff but for example, to give new players the option to filter the opponents they're playing against; allow matching up only against people without Legendaries in a deck, or against people who own 5, 10, or 25 Legendaries in their collection, or people who have been part of the game the same time as you etc...also, give us ingame statistics already -.-'
You can't stop the signal.
People with cards would probably still buy it for the dust.
New players would buy it for cards.
They already added that 4.99 Welcome Pack or however it's called.
Same thing, different prices and type of packs and voila!
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds"
this is a daring proposition that I definitively like, a bit too generous and bold but an amusing idea for sure. I really wouldn't like that every player has access to Handlock and Freeze Mage just like that, but to give away a decent sized numbers of usable cards from Classic would benefit everyone and likely spice up the variety. I mean, people might actually be inclined to build Shadowform decks if they actually didn't have to spend 2x legendaries to craft those!
the bigger problem in this picture really is the sickening, poisoned, conditioned responses you are getting in this thread by people who are basically with their dark thinking and passivity allowing for Hearthstone to be the most expensive (reminds me quite a lot of asian ccg/tcg pricings, surpassing even MTG) and new user unfriendly experiences out there. let's look at some of the common comments going through this thread;
'I had to grind for it, others should not get it for free' --- the most basic knee-jerk reaction of, well, jerks. these people if they were drowning I guess would pull down the others with them, because 'if they have to, then others should too!' while some compensation should be given, this is a sort of mentality that needs to be cured.
'that is not how economy works' --- ah, the experts. however, lots of other games are doing just fine while being far more generous at incentive towards new and old players alike. look at the numbers; Hearthstone has surpassed even physical card games in terms of pricing, and they're looking to up the ante here. it's these sort of sheepish 'baaaah it's how the system works' passive comments that allow this corporate behavior. I mean for god's sakes, Hearthstone hasn't even implemented a daily reward system! even greedy asian ccg/tcgs do that.
'nothing is wrong with the new user experience' --- nonsense, even the old player experience is poor. you could think this is all fine if you haven't been exposed to other games which are far more welcoming and rewarding, that just makes you very short sighted and lacking compassion and understanding. there are epics and legendaries in classic that I've never even seen from a pack, and I've been playing since Naxx and have spent some cash into the game. that is completely mental. after these years in the game there's still decks I am yet to build because of the horrible dust/rarity ratio! a new player is also forced into playing archetypes that he can afford, his rewards and progress are fairly limited per day, all in the faint hopes that someday some months away he'll actually be able to build a deck of his liking.
I could go on forever, but I gotta stop somewhere. in short, I believe the problem is in the players, then in the company behind the game.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
There's approx. 40m players world wide across all regions i doubt we need more players for the game to feel full.
And HS doesn't show server pops.
The kicker here is you can't support new players with free without snubbing your loyal longtime customers.
Think of it like a telecommunications company. They bait new customers with pre paid credit cards or bonus packages... Yet long time customers, often on contract, foot the bill with increased monthly charges.
Blizzard doesn't have it's HS player base on contract if they slight their loyal paying customers the bread and butter ultimately walks out.
Each expansion every player has to make decisions on how much gold/money to spend and where to spend it; new and old alike. Rotation in standard causes massive resets that mostly benefit new players by heavily reducing card pool.
Blizzard has already taken massive steps to helping new players, including the match making system matching new players with each other at similar WRs.
Honestly, blizzard has done alot already, the best way to benefit everyone, including new players, is make QOL improvements across the game. Not by disenfranchising portions of their player base by giving handouts to another.
And to all the welfare posts in this thread and forum. Blizzard is a business, paying customers>f2p. The fact the game can be enjoyed entirely f2p is a massive boon to those who do it. Time spent though =/= entitlement nor does being new mean you should be able to immediately play on the same field as someone with 1000's of hrs played and practiced.
I think the New Player Experience and the F2P experience are linked.
There are, at the moment 4 Expansions available. Exclude the Adventure and you have 3 Expansions and Classic.
Lets assume 300 packs would get you 99% of the cards in an expansion and 500 for classic. (these are rough numbers, i know someone will probably correct them, but for the sake of argument lets use these numbers).
In Euro, it costs between €1.05 - €1.35 per pack depending on the numbers you get at a time. So lets say €1.10 on average.
Hearthstone and the 3 card expansions costs €1,540 to Complete.
Now lets look at this year alone.
3 Expansion: - 900 Packs to complete - €990 this year alone.
Hearthstone isn't cheap. Now lets look at what they give you for free.
Quests: Lets say you can average a 60g quest a day and complete them all. That's 21,900g or 219 Packs.
1 Pack per week in Tavern Brawl (i wont count heroic TB), That's 52 Packs (though only classic packs)
So you get about 271 packs out of 2,000 (5 expansion + classic) for free if you play every single day for the whole year.
Its not that much... when you factor that you playing a game every day for a year is giving a lot to the life and health of a game.
I do think blizzard need to do a few things with Hearthstone.
1. Give new players a boosted start. 5 Packs a day for the first month or something...
2. They need to stop new players from being ranked against veteran players. Perhaps a segregated beginner ladder based on card numbers.
3. They need to increase the daily rewards for all players (especially now that there are 3 full expansions this year). This could be daily login bonuses and login streak bonuses. If someone plays for a months straight, give them a random legendary!
4. Decrease the dust cost of wild cards, cause wild can be fun :D
In the end if someone is playing every day for a whole year, they should be getting at least 500 packs worth of content. A big community of small sales is better than a small community of big sales.
Now this has a cost, and i don't think blizzard should be focusing on just what they can give for free. To counter this i would add lots more cosmetic items for sale in the shop. Maiev could have been sold in the shop for €10 - €20 Euro and instead give every Ungoro player 10-20 Packs and i don't think many would have complained. Add custom boards, Heroes, Hero Powers, even custom skins and animations for cards (Card included in purchase ofc!).
Making the game cheaper to play but more expensive to customize would be a great way to reduce the cost to enter and still maintain revenue streams.
If at first you don't succeed, Cheat, repeat until caught and then lie!