He's saying that the use of it is legal. Not whether it confers an advantage or not to a player. Please try and understand what you are posting about before attempting to troll... /smh
Yes, it is clearly an advantage over another player not using it. instantaneous information allows you much more time to think about optimal plays rather than doing the math in your head.
Allowing the visual cue of 100% remembering that they have held a card for 6 turns or a card was from discover etc, is something we don't always pay attention to during the course of a game as it flows and reminds you that it is either a tech/combo piece/ late game card etc.
Ex: Turn 8 they've played 2 nourish and azure drake, you don't typically remember they haven't played their second card from mulligan unless it's staring you in the face with a big circle and 1 over top of the card.
It's a joke to say it doesn't provide an advantage, and I'd like to meet the person who does all of this each turn of every game in pen and paper.
Yes, it is clearly an advantage over another player not using it. instantaneous information allows you much more time to think about optimal plays rather than doing the math in your head.
Allowing the visual cue of 100% remembering that they have held a card for 6 turns or a card was from discover etc, is something we don't always pay attention to during the course of a game as it flows and reminds you that it is either a tech/combo piece/ late game card etc.
Ex: Turn 8 they've played 2 nourish and azure drake, you don't typically remember they haven't played their second card from mulligan unless it's staring you in the face with a big circle and 1 over top of the card.
It's a joke to say it doesn't provide an advantage, and I'd like to meet the person who does all of this each turn of every game in pen and paper.
Is it not a case of you are possibly putting yourself at a disadvantage by not using it? rather than it being an advantage to use it...
/from a certain point of view...
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...The problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude to the problem.
But are you implying that fair can only be what the person who is the worst off (in this case the IOS mobile HS player) is capable of? I'd personally rather use the PC and Android portion of the playerbase as baseline, and state that these players are all capable to run a tracker if so desired. I don't think lowering the bar for the lesser capable is good for the overall quality of life of everyone.
Ps I hope that sometime we'll get a nice tracker for IOS. I play on my Ipad 50% of the time, without tracker. I'm not bothered by that, though it's more hassle to track my winrates. I accept that I use a device that doesn't support proper tracking, but I don't think others who enjoy their tool should be lowered to my level out of spite. That wouldn't be fair ;).
One will probably be coming soon. The android app only recently showed up (I know this thread is the first time I've heard of it. note, I've DLed it and it works) so iOS should be close behind.
Fact is, we can always pull this argument for many different factors. I know some people suffer frequent disconnects due to a bad connection. It's not a level playing ground there. Slow PCs will suffer from the graphics of the game causing them to lose actual playtime (I have one such device now). At some point we all go "Oh come on, we can't cater to everyone!" And set a line that will mean SOMEONE is left out of the fairness loop.
If Blizzard, today, said that they will ban deck trackers then I will be perfectly fine with the decision, though I can understand the outrage that will come from it. If Blizzard never says this then I'll be fine as well. It's not flat out hacking or cheating or abusing an exploit, so it's really about that abritrary line between "should I allow it or not".
If it's allowed but OSes such as apple aren't a part of it then people should just stop using apple the focus should be on supporting an iOS app. HONESTLY I think the real solution is less banning and more getting blizzard to incorporate a win rate tracker and consider a deck tracker that can be turned off (for tournaments that don't want to allow it). If it's not fair because everyone doesn't have access to it, then the question is less "should be ban it" and more "should we/can we get everyone access to it?"
There's more to it than that, seeing thinks like draw percentages at a glance can give you more time to figure out the best play.
1/x or 2/x depending on how many copies you have in your deck, where x is remaining cards in your deck. The only thing trackers do is convert that into percentages, which is imo useless.
Fact is, we can always pull this argument for many different factors. I know some people suffer frequent disconnects due to a bad connection. It's not a level playing ground there. Slow PCs will suffer from the graphics of the game causing them to lose actual playtime (I have one such device now). At some point we all go "Oh come on, we can't cater to everyone!" And set a line that will mean SOMEONE is left out of the fairness loop.
If Blizzard, today, said that they will ban deck trackers then I will be perfectly fine with the decision, though I can understand the outrage that will come from it. If Blizzard never says this then I'll be fine as well. It's not flat out hacking or cheating or abusing an exploit, so it's really about that abritrary line between "should I allow it or not".
If it's allowed but OSes such as apple aren't a part of it then people should just stop using apple the focus should be on supporting an iOS app. HONESTLY I think the real solution is less banning and more getting blizzard to incorporate a win rate tracker and consider a deck tracker that can be turned off (for tournaments that don't want to allow it). If it's not fair because everyone doesn't have access to it, then the question is less "should be ban it" and more "should we/can we get everyone access to it?"
I agree that the happiest solution here would be for this functionality to be accessible on iOS devices.
I don't think so. It's a crutch, sure, and it can help you calculate odds. But generally, a player should have a pretty good idea about what's left in his or her deck anyway and be able to calc the approximate odds.
I don't think so. It's a crutch, sure, and it can help you calculate odds. But generally, a player should have a pretty good idea about what's left in his or her deck anyway and be able to calc the approximate odds.
Agreed - they "should"... but let's be fair, I rarely see streamers on Youtube that DON'T use them ;-)
@iandakar; it's unlikely we'll see an iOS port any time soon for deck trackers because it's a technical limitation of how iOS sandboxes apps (as far as I'm aware). There's a chance Blizzard could build something into the app so devs could leverage something like the extensions feature, but I'm pretty doubtful they're really going to do so any time soon. Personally I'm still hoping something shifts so that it can happen though, I'd play a lot more if I could easily track stats on my iPad.
I'd agree though, in general with how the game is designed the different platforms are simply always going to suffer inequality. Mobile being worse from a usability and third part perspective, PCs/Macs because it's significantly less common I'd wager to have a reasonably spec'd setup than to have a new-ish mobile device... and then internet connections are hardly created equal, which is something you can only design around so much. All of these things have far more impact than a deck tracker. I'd say all of these things make for an inherently unfair system from someone's perspective. Like you said, the best Blizzard can do is design the best they can for each platform and accept it will never be 100% fair to every circumstance.
Deck trackers however aren't actually giving anyone an unfair advantage, because all of the information it's displaying is legitimately accessible from every client and device. It would be dishonest to say there isn't some advantage to having this tracked automatically, but once again what's the realistic impact on winrate for someone with or without a deck tracker? I've never played a game and thought "my god, my opponent must be using a deck tracker!", because from my experience using them in the past it actually didn't contribute anything useful outside of overall statistics and the ability to review replays.
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Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
I don't think so. It's a crutch, sure, and it can help you calculate odds. But generally, a player should have a pretty good idea about what's left in his or her deck anyway and be able to calc the approximate odds.
Agreed - they "should"... but let's be fair, I rarely see streamers on Youtube that DON'T use them ;-)
Heh!
There are plenty that don't, and most competitive players completely disregard them because they're not conducive to the places they want to compete in (namely, Blizzcon). I'd argue there are plenty of non-competitive reasons to run it as a streamer, like trying to pay a lot of attention to chat, but it's definitely not mandatory.
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Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
I don't think so. It's a crutch, sure, and it can help you calculate odds. But generally, a player should have a pretty good idea about what's left in his or her deck anyway and be able to calc the approximate odds.
Agreed - they "should"... but let's be fair, I rarely see streamers on Youtube that DON'T use them ;-)
Heh!
Most streamers didn't use them a couple years ago and only started using them because that's what their viewers wanted to see, at least that's the transformation to deck trackers that I saw when I used to watch twitch all the time. They didn't do it because they needed it, they did it for their viewers (that's why I use to use one as well, and why I don't use one now that I have stopped streaming).
I actually tend to make more mistakes when I have my decktracker running because I overthink my turns, it's only really in fatigue and when you play a combo deck that it's relevant... I usually just use it for collecting stats. Also I'm pretty sure you can get decktrackers for mobile devices too (I at least remember using one when I was testing a combo deck because it was important what I had left in my deck). ^^
I don't think so. It's a crutch, sure, and it can help you calculate odds. But generally, a player should have a pretty good idea about what's left in his or her deck anyway and be able to calc the approximate odds.
Agreed - they "should"... but let's be fair, I rarely see streamers on Youtube that DON'T use them ;-)
Heh!
But streamers are also doing a lot of other things too. Narrating. Responding to chat. Entertaining. The average joe doesn't have those distractions.
Yes, it is clearly an advantage over another player not using it. instantaneous information allows you much more time to think about optimal plays rather than doing the math in your head.
Allowing the visual cue of 100% remembering that they have held a card for 6 turns or a card was from discover etc, is something we don't always pay attention to during the course of a game as it flows and reminds you that it is either a tech/combo piece/ late game card etc.
Ex: Turn 8 they've played 2 nourish and azure drake, you don't typically remember they haven't played their second card from mulligan unless it's staring you in the face with a big circle and 1 over top of the card.
It's a joke to say it doesn't provide an advantage, and I'd like to meet the person who does all of this each turn of every game in pen and paper.
Is it not a case of you are possibly putting yourself at a disadvantage by not using it? rather than it being an advantage to use it...
/from a certain point of view...
It is true that I am at a disadvantage by not using it in general, but that isn't the salient point.
In this case we have a baseline of the game that doesn't have this functionality included in it. When I load up HS by itself i don't have the option to click tracker, I have to actively seek out a third party app and simultaneously load it up. Sure it's "legal" but to me not within the spirit of the original game, and provides a notable advantage for most.
Ok try doing that with pen and paper every turn of every game, in the 70 second window playing optimally. Then compare that state of mind to the automatic information being read in 3 seconds. Some people maybe able to do all of it in their head and to them I would applaud. None of this is super difficult per se, but the tedium alone makes pen and paper unpalatable. The simplicity of the tracker is the advantageous part, given the alternatives.
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Please try and understand what you are posting about before attempting to troll... /smh
It's legal everyone can use if they want to so it's not unfair. How hard is that to understand...
...The problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude to the problem.
Yes, it is clearly an advantage over another player not using it. instantaneous information allows you much more time to think about optimal plays rather than doing the math in your head.
Allowing the visual cue of 100% remembering that they have held a card for 6 turns or a card was from discover etc, is something we don't always pay attention to during the course of a game as it flows and reminds you that it is either a tech/combo piece/ late game card etc.
Ex: Turn 8 they've played 2 nourish and azure drake, you don't typically remember they haven't played their second card from mulligan unless it's staring you in the face with a big circle and 1 over top of the card.
It's a joke to say it doesn't provide an advantage, and I'd like to meet the person who does all of this each turn of every game in pen and paper.
...The problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude to the problem.
...The problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude to the problem.
people should just stop using applethe focus should be on supporting an iOS app. HONESTLY I think the real solution is less banning and more getting blizzard to incorporate a win rate tracker and consider a deck tracker that can be turned off (for tournaments that don't want to allow it). If it's not fair because everyone doesn't have access to it, then the question is less "should be ban it" and more "should we/can we get everyone access to it?"One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
That's the whoile point.
I don't think so. It's a crutch, sure, and it can help you calculate odds. But generally, a player should have a pretty good idea about what's left in his or her deck anyway and be able to calc the approximate odds.
No need to switch
@iandakar; it's unlikely we'll see an iOS port any time soon for deck trackers because it's a technical limitation of how iOS sandboxes apps (as far as I'm aware). There's a chance Blizzard could build something into the app so devs could leverage something like the extensions feature, but I'm pretty doubtful they're really going to do so any time soon. Personally I'm still hoping something shifts so that it can happen though, I'd play a lot more if I could easily track stats on my iPad.
I'd agree though, in general with how the game is designed the different platforms are simply always going to suffer inequality. Mobile being worse from a usability and third part perspective, PCs/Macs because it's significantly less common I'd wager to have a reasonably spec'd setup than to have a new-ish mobile device... and then internet connections are hardly created equal, which is something you can only design around so much. All of these things have far more impact than a deck tracker. I'd say all of these things make for an inherently unfair system from someone's perspective. Like you said, the best Blizzard can do is design the best they can for each platform and accept it will never be 100% fair to every circumstance.
Deck trackers however aren't actually giving anyone an unfair advantage, because all of the information it's displaying is legitimately accessible from every client and device. It would be dishonest to say there isn't some advantage to having this tracked automatically, but once again what's the realistic impact on winrate for someone with or without a deck tracker? I've never played a game and thought "my god, my opponent must be using a deck tracker!", because from my experience using them in the past it actually didn't contribute anything useful outside of overall statistics and the ability to review replays.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
I actually tend to make more mistakes when I have my decktracker running because I overthink my turns, it's only really in fatigue and when you play a combo deck that it's relevant... I usually just use it for collecting stats.
Also I'm pretty sure you can get decktrackers for mobile devices too (I at least remember using one when I was testing a combo deck because it was important what I had left in my deck). ^^
Ok try doing that with pen and paper every turn of every game, in the 70 second window playing optimally. Then compare that state of mind to the automatic information being read in 3 seconds. Some people maybe able to do all of it in their head and to them I would applaud. None of this is super difficult per se, but the tedium alone makes pen and paper unpalatable. The simplicity of the tracker is the advantageous part, given the alternatives.