I would prefer they just moved cards to wild rather than nerf them.
And honestly, while we're talking about nerfs, I really want them to change Yogg back to his pre-nerf state. Playing a 10 mana card and losing because he turned himself into a frogg isn't anywhere near as fun.
I absolutely support your Yogg statement. The card is has gone through a Blizzard nerf which means it was once competitive and now completely unplayable and to your point- simply not fun anymore. Just needs like a 15 spell cap maybe so the comeback probability is reduced.
I would prefer they just moved cards to wild rather than nerf them.
And honestly, while we're talking about nerfs, I really want them to change Yogg back to his pre-nerf state. Playing a 10 mana card and losing because he turned himself into a frogg isn't anywhere near as fun.
I absolutely support your Yogg statement. The card is has gone through a Blizzard nerf which means it was once competitive and now completely unplayable and to your point- simply not fun anymore. Just needs like a 15 spell cap maybe so the comeback probability is reduced.
I know it's likely not to happen, but with the fact that they nerfed him due to messing with Tournies, and Wild not having any tournies, I *REALLY* hope they give us Yogg back so we can enjoy him there.
And let's face it, Yogg decks weren't kicking out Secret paladin or Freeze Mage or anything, so it wasn't overpowered. It just annoyed the streamers.
I want NO cards nerfed. Instead, just move them to Wild where the meta can be fucking nuts and broken, like it should be.
Fuck no. Broken stuff like STB and Jade Idol needs a nerf asap, balanced cards like Ragnaros, Azure Drake and co. that "limit design space" should instead be rotated to wild because i don't want them to ruin more cards.
IMO the solution to this is simple. Move broken cards to Wild immediately, and move solid cards that limit design space out of Classic so they rotate.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Heck no to the whole idea of putting cancer in a Wild-only mode. Its already bad enough that Blizzard refuses to even touch or acknowledge the existence of the mode, we don't need Wild to become even more deprived of any balance.
You'd think Blizzard would avoid making the mistake that lead them to create formats in the first place again, but since they didn't, and auto-pilot decks are still as rampant as before, let them at least balance their favorite format properly, and indirectly change Wild too.
Rag and Sylvanas can come if they want to avoid nerfing them (I still kinda disagree with it for different reasons), but it is utterly stupid to put completely new cards in Wild just because they failed at balancing Standard.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I want NO cards nerfed. Instead, just move them to Wild where the meta can be fucking nuts and broken, like it should be.
Fuck no. Broken stuff like STB and Jade Idol needs a nerf asap, balanced cards like Ragnaros, Azure Drake and co. that "limit design space" should instead be rotated to wild because i don't want them to ruin more cards.
IMO the solution to this is simple. Move broken cards to Wild immediately, and move solid cards that limit design space out of Classic so they rotate.
Your solution is bad because broken stuff needs to be nerfed, even in wild. This whole "let's skip balance and just throw everything in wild" mindset needs to stop.
Why? That's what they originally said they wanted Wild to be.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
I want NO cards nerfed. Instead, just move them to Wild where the meta can be fucking nuts and broken, like it should be.
Fuck no. Broken stuff like STB and Jade Idol needs a nerf asap, balanced cards like Ragnaros, Azure Drake and co. that "limit design space" should instead be rotated to wild because i don't want them to ruin more cards.
IMO the solution to this is simple. Move broken cards to Wild immediately, and move solid cards that limit design space out of Classic so they rotate.
Your solution is bad because broken stuff needs to be nerfed, even in wild. This whole "let's skip balance and just throw everything in wild" mindset needs to stop.
Why? That's what they originally said they wanted Wild to be.
I am a wild player and if all the OP cards were moved to wild, I would be fine with that because then we can just play them against each other, and make good decks with old cards.
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I am not a Mage player, just thought my avatar would go with my name.
'How many Blizzard employees do you need to fix a lamp? It does not matter, because they cannot balance the ladder.'
I agree that cards shouldn't just "rotate" if they are too strong because to me, that is the easy way out for Blizzard. Although a temporary move to wild until they nerf/adjust cards could be a decent solution. Might get confusing though and God knows Blizzard won't do a single good thing for HS if it hinders the "new player experience" in any way.
Not nerfing the cards will inevitably make Wild unplayable. It may take a couple of years, but -- it's inevitable. Cards will have to be nerfed in wild. So it's better to nerf cards in Standard to clean up the worst messes before they hit Wild.
How would Wild be unplayable?
A new super powerful card would have other decks keep it in check; no matter how powerful a Control deck is OTK will always kill it. You'd see an upward spiral of power, to be fair, and eventually only one or two cards in each set will be powerful enough to handle Wild play.
However, the good thing about this is that eventually there will be decks people *know* they can play and a very concise metagame will emerge. like in M:tG, you have the holy trinity of Jund, Tron, and Burn, with other top 10 decks like Delver, Fish or Affinity, Storm, and then T2 decks like Living End (my personal favorite deck ever), CoCo and Blitzkrieg.
Once the cardpool gets to be big enough, we'll have a high powered Wild that makes Standard players balk at the power level, but it'll still be fun and balanced within itself.
Except Hearthstone's standard is about as big as a Magic Block-Format right now -- while Wild is about as big as Magic Standard.
Both Block and Standard in Magic have ban-lists.
In 10 years, Wild may reach the comparative size of early Modern. Where there is a ban list, which used to be massive -- before they pulled the plug on official support of the format.
...
As a Wild player, I want the format to be balanced and supported: I want to see Wild tournaments.
I'm also damn sure that if Wizards could CHANGE cards reactively, magically converting each card in existence to the new version, they'd do so instead of banning cards. Without refunds.
I want Aggro to return to their classic state, to the textbook TCG definition of aggro. Low-cost, low-health, high-attack minions. Fast and explosive, but easy to counter. No Trogg, Totem Golem and 4 mana 7/7 type of aggro. I want Leper Gnomes, Abusives, Bluegill Warriors like the old days.
I am not anti-nerf. Some cards are clearly insane.
I am against killer nerfs. No card deserves to become trash. Even worse if the risk is to carry whole but perfectly balanced archetypes with it (eg. Small-Time Buccaneer and Pirate Rogue).
I want Aggro to return to their classic state, to the textbook TCG definition of aggro. Low-cost, low-health, high-attack minions. Fast and explosive, but easy to counter. No Trogg, Totem Golem and 4 mana 7/7 type of aggro. I want Leper Gnomes, Abusives, Bluegill Warriors like the old days.
Ancient of Lore and Keeper of the Grove nerfs felt like a punch to the face.
Compare Keeper of the Grove to 4 mana class cards from other classes. Water Elemental: +1 attack +2 health, freezes targets Kor'kron Elite: +2 attack -1 health, charge Flamewreathed Faceless: +5 attack +3 health Houndmaster: +2 attack -1 health: Give a Beast +2/+2
It was only powerful compared to neutral 4-cost minions, and unplayable minions that cost 4 mana. It was a good anti-aggro tool, as it could punish players who played lots of low cost minions, dealing with at least two minions.
Ancient of Lore: 7 mana.
Bloody compare to Archmage Antonidas who generates a fireball from a coin, and another Fireball from Counterspell, and another one from the Fireball next turn, and another one from the second Fireball. Ancient of Lore was underpowered compared to many 7-cost class cards, and to Dr. Boom. Savannah Highmane at 6 mana is also compable: Summons two 2/2s on death, which has to be comparable to drawing two cards, as it puts two bodies on the board.
I mean: Would a 3 mana card that produces two 2/2s be balanced..? Yes. Ergo: Summoning two 2/2s is comparable to drawing two cards, perhaps just barely below.
I don't even want them moved to wild: Just restored. What is the point of a core set, if the cards aren't playable and don't define the class' identity?
Solution: Look at the good old Malygos Druid; Ancient of Lore, Azure Drake, Nourish, Innervate, Malygos, Swipe, Wrath, Moonfire, Keeper of the Grove. But WHY? Not because any of them really are overpowered. Except Malygos could've been 3 or 4 spell power. I digress. Because nothing has been offered to Druid to use with Malygos. Literally: Only one single spell that deals damage has been added to Druid since forever. Jungle Moonkin giving +2 Spell Damage to your opponent made it unplayable, and was just silly.
Where is the 3 mana damage-dealing boardclear..? Where is the 6 mana version of Swipe; 6 damage to one minion, and 2 to the rest?
Druid having no direct removal, but having access to silence, was also a saving grace. Jade Idol is just cancerous. It has to be nerfed at some point: It should shuffle Jade Idols into your deck, not copies of itself.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Heck no to the whole idea of putting cancer in a Wild-only mode. Its already bad enough that Blizzard refuses to even touch or acknowledge the existence of the mode, we don't need Wild to become even more deprived of any balance.
You'd think Blizzard would avoid making the mistake that lead them to create formats in the first place again, but since they didn't, and auto-pilot decks are still as rampant as before, let them at least balance their favorite format properly, and indirectly change Wild too.
Rag and Sylvanas can come if they want to avoid nerfing them (I still kinda disagree with it for different reasons), but it is utterly stupid to put completely new cards in Wild just because they failed at balancing Standard.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
I am not a Mage player, just thought my avatar would go with my name.
'How many Blizzard employees do you need to fix a lamp? It does not matter, because they cannot balance the ladder.'
Check out my homebrewn Paladin deck.
I agree that cards shouldn't just "rotate" if they are too strong because to me, that is the easy way out for Blizzard. Although a temporary move to wild until they nerf/adjust cards could be a decent solution. Might get confusing though and God knows Blizzard won't do a single good thing for HS if it hinders the "new player experience" in any way.
Both Block and Standard in Magic have ban-lists.
In 10 years, Wild may reach the comparative size of early Modern.
Where there is a ban list, which used to be massive -- before they pulled the plug on official support of the format.
...
As a Wild player, I want the format to be balanced and supported:
I want to see Wild tournaments.
I'm also damn sure that if Wizards could CHANGE cards reactively, magically converting each card in existence to the new version, they'd do so instead of banning cards.
Without refunds.
I want Ancient of Lore, Keeper of the Grove, Leper Gnome, Arcane Golem, Abusive Sergeant to return to their original state.
I want Aggro to return to their classic state, to the textbook TCG definition of aggro. Low-cost, low-health, high-attack minions. Fast and explosive, but easy to counter. No Trogg, Totem Golem and 4 mana 7/7 type of aggro. I want Leper Gnomes, Abusives, Bluegill Warriors like the old days.
The pioneers used to ride these babies for miles
I am not anti-nerf. Some cards are clearly insane.
I am against killer nerfs. No card deserves to become trash.
Even worse if the risk is to carry whole but perfectly balanced archetypes with it (eg. Small-Time Buccaneer and Pirate Rogue).
Compare Keeper of the Grove to 4 mana class cards from other classes.
Water Elemental: +1 attack +2 health, freezes targets
Kor'kron Elite: +2 attack -1 health, charge
Flamewreathed Faceless: +5 attack +3 health
Houndmaster: +2 attack -1 health: Give a Beast +2/+2
It was only powerful compared to neutral 4-cost minions, and unplayable minions that cost 4 mana.
It was a good anti-aggro tool, as it could punish players who played lots of low cost minions, dealing with at least two minions.
Ancient of Lore:
7 mana.
Bloody compare to Archmage Antonidas who generates a fireball from a coin, and another Fireball from Counterspell, and another one from the Fireball next turn, and another one from the second Fireball.
Ancient of Lore was underpowered compared to many 7-cost class cards, and to Dr. Boom. Savannah Highmane at 6 mana is also compable:
Summons two 2/2s on death, which has to be comparable to drawing two cards, as it puts two bodies on the board.
I mean:
Would a 3 mana card that produces two 2/2s be balanced..? Yes.
Ergo: Summoning two 2/2s is comparable to drawing two cards, perhaps just barely below.
I don't even want them moved to wild:
Just restored.
What is the point of a core set, if the cards aren't playable and don't define the class' identity?
Solution:
Look at the good old Malygos Druid;
Ancient of Lore, Azure Drake, Nourish, Innervate, Malygos, Swipe, Wrath, Moonfire, Keeper of the Grove.
But WHY?
Not because any of them really are overpowered. Except Malygos could've been 3 or 4 spell power. I digress.
Because nothing has been offered to Druid to use with Malygos.
Literally:
Only one single spell that deals damage has been added to Druid since forever.
Jungle Moonkin giving +2 Spell Damage to your opponent made it unplayable, and was just silly.
Where is the 3 mana damage-dealing boardclear..? Where is the 6 mana version of Swipe; 6 damage to one minion, and 2 to the rest?
Druid having no direct removal, but having access to silence, was also a saving grace.
Jade Idol is just cancerous.
It has to be nerfed at some point:
It should shuffle Jade Idols into your deck, not copies of itself.