I've been thinking about some of the best and worst case scenarios for what Blizzard might do as far as nerfs, rotating cards, and potential changes in certain formats/game modes. Generally curious what cards you really hope DON'T get nerfed or rotated etc. Personally I would love to see Sylvanas Windrunner, Ragnaros, the Firelord, and several others stay the same however many neutral cards are likely to be on the chopping block for nerf-town if Blizzard doesn't rotate cards somehow.
What do you all want to keep unchanged? Particularly classic cards because I believe any cards that are not MSoG and Classic won't get nerfed because of the big rotation coming in a couple months and Blizzard doesn't seem to care what garbage ends up in Wild Mode.
I think some stuff will be nerfed but I'm almost sure they will fuck up like they always do with nerfs. I guess we will just have some more dead cards on our collection.
I would prefer they just moved cards to wild rather than nerf them.
And honestly, while we're talking about nerfs, I really want them to change Yogg back to his pre-nerf state. Playing a 10 mana card and losing because he turned himself into a frogg isn't anywhere near as fun.
Not nerfing the cards will inevitably make Wild unplayable. It may take a couple of years, but -- it's inevitable. Cards will have to be nerfed in wild. So it's better to nerf cards in Standard to clean up the worst messes before they hit Wild.
What worries me is that no nerf or rotation will stop other cards to replace the current targetted cards.
As an example I give you Bloodmage Thalnos. This card was only played by Freeze Mage and Rogue before Whispers of the Old Gods. After the nerfs and rotations that came with it, it became more and more important and now a lot of people ask for a rotation. Following nerfs/rotations will cause the same effect on other classic cards, and it's never going to end unless they rotate or nerf the whole classic set, and I really don't want that to happen.
Maybe this would be different if Blizzard stops releasing so many bad/filler cards every expansion so we wouldn't have to go back to classic staples to make competitive decks.
Not nerfing the cards will inevitably make Wild unplayable. It may take a couple of years, but -- it's inevitable. Cards will have to be nerfed in wild. So it's better to nerf cards in Standard to clean up the worst messes before they hit Wild.
This. If a card is broken in Standard, why is there this assumption that it won't be broken in Wild as well? The incredibly lame excuse of "oh we'll just wait for it to rotate out" and letting the metagame stagnate for months while the same OP decks roflstomp the ladder time and time again is, quite literally, the cancer that is killing Hearthstone in my highly-biased opinion.
That said, Team 5 need to adjust their approach to nerfing cards - there seems to be almost no middle ground between "basically unchanged" and "sent straight into the dumpster" on the spectrum of their nerfs. This latest round of nerfs being, largely, the exception to this.
It seems like every time a balance change is floated, people seem to decide which cards are certain to be nerfed. I remember how people though Tirion would be nerfed. Alex as well. Nerf Rag and Sylvanas, wouldn't bet money on it. That being said, rotation is more likely if the issues are just design space - it's not like these cards are a problem.
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Not nerfing the cards will inevitably make Wild unplayable. It may take a couple of years, but -- it's inevitable. Cards will have to be nerfed in wild. So it's better to nerf cards in Standard to clean up the worst messes before they hit Wild.
How would Wild be unplayable?
A new super powerful card would have other decks keep it in check; no matter how powerful a Control deck is OTK will always kill it. You'd see an upward spiral of power, to be fair, and eventually only one or two cards in each set will be powerful enough to handle Wild play.
However, the good thing about this is that eventually there will be decks people *know* they can play and a very concise metagame will emerge. like in M:tG, you have the holy trinity of Jund, Tron, and Burn, with other top 10 decks like Delver, Fish or Affinity, Storm, and then T2 decks like Living End (my personal favorite deck ever), CoCo and Blitzkrieg.
Once the cardpool gets to be big enough, we'll have a high powered Wild that makes Standard players balk at the power level, but it'll still be fun and balanced within itself.
Not nerfing the cards will inevitably make Wild unplayable. It may take a couple of years, but -- it's inevitable. Cards will have to be nerfed in wild. So it's better to nerf cards in Standard to clean up the worst messes before they hit Wild.
How would Wild be unplayable?
A new super powerful card would have other decks keep it in check; no matter how powerful a Control deck is OTK will always kill it. You'd see an upward spiral of power, to be fair, and eventually only one or two cards in each set will be powerful enough to handle Wild play.
However, the good thing about this is that eventually there will be decks people *know* they can play and a very concise metagame will emerge. like in M:tG, you have the holy trinity of Jund, Tron, and Burn, with other top 10 decks like Delver, Fish or Affinity, Storm, and then T2 decks like Living End (my personal favorite deck ever), CoCo and Blitzkrieg.
Once the cardpool gets to be big enough, we'll have a high powered Wild that makes Standard players balk at the power level, but it'll still be fun and balanced within itself.
I wish hearthstone could make graveyard themed decks.
Though to be honest, Living End was the only Graveyard deck that really made sense, thematically. You actually had to bury bodies in order to raise them, rather than there just being DEAD BODIES EVERYWHERE!!!!
Not necessarily; I mean, we already have cards that rez creatures that died, so simply making a "If it got burned, rez it" would enable the "Dredge" archetype.
This. If a card is broken in Standard, why is there this assumption that it won't be broken in Wild as well? The incredibly lame excuse of "oh we'll just wait for it to rotate out" and letting the metagame stagnate for months while the same OP decks roflstomp the ladder time and time again is, quite literally, the cancer that is killing Hearthstone in my highly-biased opinion.
That said, Team 5 need to adjust their approach to nerfing cards - there seems to be almost no middle ground between "basically unchanged" and "sent straight into the dumpster" on the spectrum of their nerfs. This latest round of nerfs being, largely, the exception to this.
Not really true, in the nerfs was :
Knife jungler, still played, still op in the correct deck
lerroy : played everywhere
Auctionner : Played still and still op
Blizzard make mistakes for sure but when they overnerf a card it seems to me that is a choice to deliberately remove something from the meta. As you say last round of nerf was better.
Exec, still played, still one of the best single target removal
Abusive sergeant, still ok
Rockbiter, still played and still op with doomhammer combo
hunter mark, was still played when aggro hunter was still a thing
Call of the wild is still a strong card and may be played if hunter makes a comeback
Nerf hammer hit hards when they want to lowkey remove a card from ranked play, last nerf was tentative a tempering the powerlevel of some deck. And it mainly worked.
I would like Blizzard to make only one "Slight Buff" of several (20-80) currently unplayable (basic, classic) cards. This will give Blizzard 2 good things: 1) Better balance between evergreen class-card sets (easier to save balance while adding new stuff). 2) Huge respect from community (almost giving free playable content!). Finally this action will indirectly bring money.
P.S. other way - nerf more cards, so average power level will decrease, so again more cards become playable.
I would like to clarify; in the event that a card is fine balance wise but they want to rid standard of it (Gadgetzan Auctioneer), no nerf should be given. If the card is actually overpowered (Small-Time Buckaneer), then yes, it should be nerfed.
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Heh Greetings,
I've been thinking about some of the best and worst case scenarios for what Blizzard might do as far as nerfs, rotating cards, and potential changes in certain formats/game modes. Generally curious what cards you really hope DON'T get nerfed or rotated etc. Personally I would love to see Sylvanas Windrunner, Ragnaros, the Firelord, and several others stay the same however many neutral cards are likely to be on the chopping block for nerf-town if Blizzard doesn't rotate cards somehow.
What do you all want to keep unchanged? Particularly classic cards because I believe any cards that are not MSoG and Classic won't get nerfed because of the big rotation coming in a couple months and Blizzard doesn't seem to care what garbage ends up in Wild Mode.
Warsong Commander and Charge... Oh wait, shit... :P
I'd like Edwin and Alexstrasa to stay the same forever if that's possible...
I think some stuff will be nerfed but I'm almost sure they will fuck up like they always do with nerfs. I guess we will just have some more dead cards on our collection.
I want NO cards nerfed. Instead, just move them to Wild where the meta can be fucking nuts and broken, like it should be.
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None? Not even the dreaded Small-Time Buccaneer? haha
I would prefer they just moved cards to wild rather than nerf them.
And honestly, while we're talking about nerfs, I really want them to change Yogg back to his pre-nerf state. Playing a 10 mana card and losing because he turned himself into a frogg isn't anywhere near as fun.
As a wild player, I say nerf the cards.
Not nerfing the cards will inevitably make Wild unplayable.
It may take a couple of years, but -- it's inevitable.
Cards will have to be nerfed in wild.
So it's better to nerf cards in Standard to clean up the worst messes before they hit Wild.
What worries me is that no nerf or rotation will stop other cards to replace the current targetted cards.
As an example I give you Bloodmage Thalnos. This card was only played by Freeze Mage and Rogue before Whispers of the Old Gods. After the nerfs and rotations that came with it, it became more and more important and now a lot of people ask for a rotation.
Following nerfs/rotations will cause the same effect on other classic cards, and it's never going to end unless they rotate or nerf the whole classic set, and I really don't want that to happen.
Maybe this would be different if Blizzard stops releasing so many bad/filler cards every expansion so we wouldn't have to go back to classic staples to make competitive decks.
Given the state of meta, I think molten giant should be un-nerfed but make it 22 or 23 mana. It's the card that makes handlock able to punish Aggro
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<('o'<)
It seems like every time a balance change is floated, people seem to decide which cards are certain to be nerfed. I remember how people though Tirion would be nerfed. Alex as well. Nerf Rag and Sylvanas, wouldn't bet money on it. That being said, rotation is more likely if the issues are just design space - it's not like these cards are a problem.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Would be pretty boss.
Though to be honest, Living End was the only Graveyard deck that really made sense, thematically. You actually had to bury bodies in order to raise them, rather than there just being DEAD BODIES EVERYWHERE!!!!
Not necessarily; I mean, we already have cards that rez creatures that died, so simply making a "If it got burned, rez it" would enable the "Dredge" archetype.
Why wouldn't we just see more "rez random minion" cards?
What this game in its current sorry state needs is balance, not nesessarily by nerfs, especially not by retarded ones like the Molten Giant case.
I would like Blizzard to make only one "Slight Buff" of several (20-80) currently unplayable (basic, classic) cards.
This will give Blizzard 2 good things:
1) Better balance between evergreen class-card sets (easier to save balance while adding new stuff).
2) Huge respect from community (almost giving free playable content!).
Finally this action will indirectly bring money.
P.S. other way - nerf more cards, so average power level will decrease, so again more cards become playable.
I would like to clarify; in the event that a card is fine balance wise but they want to rid standard of it (Gadgetzan Auctioneer), no nerf should be given. If the card is actually overpowered (Small-Time Buckaneer), then yes, it should be nerfed.