The fact that people use the word cancer to describe decks is disgusting in my opinion. As far as I am concerned the way this community works is that no matter what, the most played decks in any meta will always be descibed as "cancer." Secret paladin was considered cancer, grim patron was called cancer, reno decks are called cancer, face hunter was called cancer, midrange shaman was called cancer, freeze mage is called cancer, jade druid is called cancer, pirate warrior is called cancer, miracle rogue has been called cancer, the old undertaker hunter was called cancer. Every deck that has been very successful in hearthstone has been referred to as cancer. No matter what new decks are created by new expansions or cards, if these decks are successful than they will be considered cancer by this community.
The thing about card games is that no matter what, there will always be at least one dominant deck. Also the most competitive decks in card games always tend to have something that is unfair about them. There are decks that have been problematic, overpowered and just not fun to play against, but none of them are what I would consider "cancerous."
The fact that people use the word cancer to describe decks is disgusting in my opinion. As far as I am concerned the way this community works is that no matter what, the most played decks in any meta will always be descibed as "cancer." Secret paladin was considered cancer, grim patron was called cancer, reno decks are called cancer, face hunter was called cancer, midrange shaman was called cancer, freeze mage is called cancer, jade druid is called cancer, pirate warrior is called cancer, miracle rogue has been called cancer, the old undertaker hunter was called cancer. Every deck that has been very successful in hearthstone has been referred to as cancer. No matter what new decks are created by new expansions or cards, if these decks are successful than they will be considered cancer by this community.
The thing about card games is that no matter what, there will always be at least one dominant deck. Also the most competitive decks in card games always tend to have something that is unfair about them. There are decks that have been problematic, overpowered and just not fun to play against, but none of them are what I would consider "cancerous."
Couldnt have said it better myself +1 to you sir.
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-Those who do not understand true pain, can never understand true peace.-
the term "cancer" is used to describe something; be it a behaviour, strategy or trend; that becomes widespread in a community or game and "kills" the experience, like a cancerous growth would a human. by this loose definition, the only 2 decks in hearthstone history to be cancer were huntertaker and post-nerf karazhan midrange shaman.
I can play Reno, I can play pirates, or I can play a deck that loses. You can have your variety, I prefer to win.
You are a terrible player then. Sorry but that's the truth, and what you claim is absolute bullshit.
Basically you are saying "i'm so bad that I can only win with Tier 1 decks".
Also, you claim that you prefer winning over variety, yet all the terrible players like you are spamming the forum with "this game is so boring lol".
I agree with op. You make the game boring. The game itself is perfectly fine.
This is just hot air. Very few decks that can withstand the sheer amount of damage from the current crop of aggro decks, and those decks are incredibly popular.
I've seen this post hundreds of times on the forum. Every time I have asked to see a list (not to copy, but to see the design philosophy) and it has been provided it's apparent that the poster is pretty much full of it.
Well, I agree. The only problem for me is keep hating certain decks untill rotation is soon. Year ago I exepted all meta decks and started to enjoy playing them only last few mounth before rotation. Same thing is now. Have to say, im glad that yogg-saron/barnes clown fiesta is finally over.
And also, people who trying to create a Reno-cult by saying its difficult are making me laugh so hard. My top-3 favorite decks of all time is Freeze Mage, Miracle Rogue and pre-nerf Patrion Warrior, all of them counts as really skill heavy deck. Well, guess what, its not. ALL decks in hs are easy, even if its some desicion making problem you automaticaly playing like 7 cards to make best play after 200-300 games with this deck just because you already been in exact same situation, skill is just matter of expierience in this game. Like seriously, i never played post-rotation aggro shaman and i droped 10 rangs in few hours just because i didnt new how to play with something like "patches, lava burst and aya"-starting hand, than i picked miracle rogue which im playing since beta and easly get my rangs back without losing. And honestly, reno warlock probably would be in my top-3 if somebody will ask me to name most easy to learn decks. Aggro decks are much harder than control for me, since i almost never have my whole deck, so I have to calculate my highest possible damage in several turns before im gonna die every game that i dont have explosive opening or it was shuted down by early clear which is quite likely.
Sure sure,only face and semiface decks give a fuck about reno.All other decks win with the board or with otk so you can't disguise yourself my dear smorcie.
That's actually not true. Since Reno grants up to +29 health it means that all decks have to be capable of delivering up to 59 damage, certainly more than 30 and likely needs 50+ damage capacity in practice. Any deck that cannot do this is going to lose once Reno is played. If you think about it, this is actually basic games mechanics and not deck archetype driven. If an aggro deck can deliver that much damage then it can still win.
The game would be better knowing that Reno is gone. You could play a lot of other decks, and there wouldn't be any Reno Mage or Reno lock. They would need to come up with a better plan. Sure, you could add another similar card next expansion/adventure but it would need to be different than Reno. It could be a minion that provides some kind of "make your hero immune" while on board. And then they would need to figure out how to protect that minion. But that's still better than "Heal you back to full health". It was fun for a while, and created some great match ups, but it's time for that era to be over. Bring on the new. T Trogg and T Golem will also be gone.
amen brother. I will be glad when that cancer goes to wild
Said the cancer
nah bro cant be cancer I don't play reno or pirates
Sure sure,only face and semiface decks give a fuck about reno.All other decks win with the board or with otk so you can't disguise yourself my dear smorcie.
Actually face decks are less likely to encounter reno (<50% chance in most games) than decks that have longer games where the odds of them drawing reno approach 100%.
amen brother. I will be glad when that cancer goes to wild
Said the cancer
nah bro cant be cancer I don't play reno or pirates
Sure sure,only face and semiface decks give a fuck about reno.All other decks win with the board or with otk so you can't disguise yourself my dear smorcie.
Actually face decks are less likely to encounter reno (<50% chance in most games) than decks that have longer games where the odds of them drawing reno approach 100%.
What would be good to know is whether it's better to concede as soon as you face Mage/Warlock or to play it out. I'd be interested to know what are the win/loss percentages against reno decks. If you concede you get to face another opponent and could probably rack up a win or two quicker than playing out the 30 minute reno game. Most games without Reno are under 10 minutes, so that's three games you missed out on. Same goes for Priest. Is it easier to just concede these matches?
amen brother. I will be glad when that cancer goes to wild
Said the cancer
nah bro cant be cancer I don't play reno or pirates
Sure sure,only face and semiface decks give a fuck about reno.All other decks win with the board or with otk so you can't disguise yourself my dear smorcie.
Actually face decks are less likely to encounter reno (<50% chance in most games) than decks that have longer games where the odds of them drawing reno approach 100%.
What would be good to know is whether it's better to concede as soon as you face Mage/Warlock or to play it out. I'd be interested to know what are the win/loss percentages against reno decks. If you concede you get to face another opponent and could probably rack up a win or two quicker than playing out the 30 minute reno game. Most games without Reno are under 10 minutes, so that's three games you missed out on. Same goes for Priest. Is it easier to just concede these matches?
What? Are you talking about reno vs reno games? Don't be ridiculous. If you don't want the prospect of playing a 30 minute mirror match then why the hell would you play a reno deck? If you want fast games then go play aggro.
I posted stats on my deck page for my stats vs all classes. The stats are for games played from Rank 16 -> Legend the first 4 days of this month.
I'm basically even against mage, small sample size vs priest, and big favorite vs warlock (and the majority of those matches were vs the reno variety except for priest, which was about half dragon and half reno). If you're going to auto concede because you don't like the matchup then casual mode is probably better for you.
Also if you're trying to beat aggro with reno it's not going to happen, you're at best even to a small favorite (reno mage), and at worst a huge dog (renolock)
amen brother. I will be glad when that cancer goes to wild
Said the cancer
nah bro cant be cancer I don't play reno or pirates
Sure sure,only face and semiface decks give a fuck about reno.All other decks win with the board or with otk so you can't disguise yourself my dear smorcie.
Actually face decks are less likely to encounter reno (<50% chance in most games) than decks that have longer games where the odds of them drawing reno approach 100%.
What would be good to know is whether it's better to concede as soon as you face Mage/Warlock or to play it out. I'd be interested to know what are the win/loss percentages against reno decks. If you concede you get to face another opponent and could probably rack up a win or two quicker than playing out the 30 minute reno game. Most games without Reno are under 10 minutes, so that's three games you missed out on. Same goes for Priest. Is it easier to just concede these matches?
What? Are you talking about reno vs reno games? Don't be ridiculous. If you don't want the prospect of playing a 30 minute mirror match then why the hell would you play a reno deck? If you want fast games then go play aggro.
I posted stats on my deck page for my stats vs all classes. The stats are for games played from Rank 16 -> Legend the first 4 days of this month.
I'm basically even against mage, small sample size vs priest, and big favorite vs warlock (and the majority of those matches were vs the reno variety except for priest, which was about half dragon and half reno). If you're going to auto concede because you don't like the matchup then casual mode is probably better for you.
Also if you're trying to beat aggro with reno it's not going to happen, you're at best even to a small favorite (reno mage), and at worst a huge dog (renolock)
This is what I was looking for. So this deck is basically the ladder deck you see most often. Everyone plays it to get to legend, or some form of Shaman/warrior/rogue deck similar to it. It's easy to play, fast, and takes no skill. Has good stats against almost any other deck. No bad match ups really. You can tech a few cards if you need to. If there was no Reno then you could make some mid-range/other decks that could contend with this, but since there is a reno, then only this type of deck works in ladder. And this is my argument. I can't wait until Reno is gone so that there is some other form of cancer different than pirate.
Also on another note, your Tunnel Trogg andTotem Golem opening will be gone. Amen to that. Can you name any other opening that compares?
Well right now the small time turn 1, jade claws turn 2 opening is actually stronger in general, but yeah, once trogg and golem are gone I expect to be playing something else.
It also depends on class
Vs warlock/priest: deckhand turn 1, flametongue turn 2 is the best way to do a 5 turn kill (sometimes 4 turn kill if they totally whiff)
Vs pirate warrior: small time turn 1
vs shaman: either small time + jade claws or trogg + golem
vs mage: trogg + golem. This is a tough matchup
vs druid: small time turn 1, spirit claws + something else turn 2 (but really, druid sucks so much vs aggro shaman you can get away with almost anything)
vs rogue: small time turn 1, jade claws turn 2, always keep devolve on mulligan since that card shits on rogue so hard it's not even funny
vs paladin: small time / deckhand turn 1, spirit claws + something turn 2
vs hunter: nobody plays hunter
The thing is, small time turn 1 + weapon turn 2 basically means you have a 1 drop that's giving you 4/3 in stats. Nothing in this game comes anywhere close to that. It beats out the trogg + golem opening vs most matchups which is absolutely sick.
Also on another note, your Tunnel Trogg andTotem Golem opening will be gone. Amen to that. Can you name any other opening that compares?
Well right now the small time turn 1, jade claws turn 2 opening is actually stronger in general, but yeah, once trogg and golem are gone I expect to be playing something else.
It also depends on class
Vs warlock/priest: deckhand turn 1, flametongue turn 2 is the best way to do a 5 turn kill (sometimes 4 turn kill if they totally whiff)
Vs pirate warrior: small time turn 1
vs shaman: either small time + jade claws or trogg + golem
vs mage: trogg + golem. This is a tough matchup
vs druid: small time turn 1, spirit claws + something else turn 2 (but really, druid sucks so much vs aggro shaman you can get away with almost anything)
vs rogue: small time turn 1, jade claws turn 2, always keep devolve on mulligan since that card shits on rogue so hard it's not even funny
vs paladin: small time / deckhand turn 1, spirit claws + something turn 2
vs hunter: nobody plays hunter
The thing is, small time turn 1 + weapon turn 2 basically means you have a 1 drop that's giving you 4/3 in stats. Nothing in this game comes anywhere close to that. It beats out the trogg + golem opening vs most matchups which is absolutely sick.
Right. This I'm sure is what Brode and his team are considering when the nerf bat will land on STB. That will happen soon enough, probably after the Winter Championship. The fact that you can have this along side the OP Trogg Golem opening is what makes Shaman so Overpowered.
Also on another note, your Tunnel Trogg andTotem Golem opening will be gone. Amen to that. Can you name any other opening that compares?
Well right now the small time turn 1, jade claws turn 2 opening is actually stronger in general, but yeah, once trogg and golem are gone I expect to be playing something else.
It also depends on class
Vs warlock/priest: deckhand turn 1, flametongue turn 2 is the best way to do a 5 turn kill (sometimes 4 turn kill if they totally whiff)
Vs pirate warrior: small time turn 1
vs shaman: either small time + jade claws or trogg + golem
vs mage: trogg + golem. This is a tough matchup
vs druid: small time turn 1, spirit claws + something else turn 2 (but really, druid sucks so much vs aggro shaman you can get away with almost anything)
vs rogue: small time turn 1, jade claws turn 2, always keep devolve on mulligan since that card shits on rogue so hard it's not even funny
vs paladin: small time / deckhand turn 1, spirit claws + something turn 2
vs hunter: nobody plays hunter
The thing is, small time turn 1 + weapon turn 2 basically means you have a 1 drop that's giving you 4/3 in stats. Nothing in this game comes anywhere close to that. It beats out the trogg + golem opening vs most matchups which is absolutely sick.
Right. This I'm sure is what Brode and his team are considering when the nerf bat will land on STB. That will happen soon enough, probably after the Winter Championship. The fact that you can have this along side the OP Trogg Golem opening is what makes Shaman so Overpowered.
It's not just that, it's the combination of that, spirit claws being ridiculous, the jade mechanic being ridiculous, maelstrom portal being ridiculous, and devolve is ridiculous too (once that catches on NOBODY will play rogue anymore)
Also, Reno is the cancer the idea that you can RNG an aggro deck to a loss if you make it to turn 6 is causing way too many aggro-less matchups go to fatigue.
When reno is gone and some of the aggro enabling OP shaman stuff is gone the meta will really morph in a positive way. Assuming that hunter is given something useful and they kill off auctioneer so that they can give rogue something decent and control oriented, I think it is safe to assume that much of the current aggro is going to go the way of the old face hunters.
wouldn't it be awesome to see some midrange decks again (other than mid-range shaman of course). Makes me wish for the good old days of midrange (aka secret) palladin. Ohh wait - I play mostly wild to avoid the flavor of the month standard. In wild midrange secret pally is king!
Also on another note, your Tunnel Trogg andTotem Golem opening will be gone. Amen to that. Can you name any other opening that compares?
Well right now the small time turn 1, jade claws turn 2 opening is actually stronger in general, but yeah, once trogg and golem are gone I expect to be playing something else.
It also depends on class
Vs warlock/priest: deckhand turn 1, flametongue turn 2 is the best way to do a 5 turn kill (sometimes 4 turn kill if they totally whiff)
Vs pirate warrior: small time turn 1
vs shaman: either small time + jade claws or trogg + golem
vs mage: trogg + golem. This is a tough matchup
vs druid: small time turn 1, spirit claws + something else turn 2 (but really, druid sucks so much vs aggro shaman you can get away with almost anything)
vs rogue: small time turn 1, jade claws turn 2, always keep devolve on mulligan since that card shits on rogue so hard it's not even funny
vs paladin: small time / deckhand turn 1, spirit claws + something turn 2
vs hunter: nobody plays hunter
The thing is, small time turn 1 + weapon turn 2 basically means you have a 1 drop that's giving you 4/3 in stats. Nothing in this game comes anywhere close to that. It beats out the trogg + golem opening vs most matchups which is absolutely sick.
Right. This I'm sure is what Brode and his team are considering when the nerf bat will land on STB. That will happen soon enough, probably after the Winter Championship. The fact that you can have this along side the OP Trogg Golem opening is what makes Shaman so Overpowered.
It's not just that, it's the combination of that, spirit claws being ridiculous, the jade mechanic being ridiculous, maelstrom portal being ridiculous, and devolve is ridiculous too (once that catches on NOBODY will play rogue anymore)
Also, Reno is the cancer the idea that you can RNG an aggro deck to a loss if you make it to turn 6 is causing way too many aggro-less matchups go to fatigue.
When reno is gone and some of the aggro enabling OP shaman stuff is gone the meta will really morph in a positive way. Assuming that hunter is given something useful and they kill off auctioneer so that they can give rogue something decent and control oriented, I think it is safe to assume that much of the current aggro is going to go the way of the old face hunters.
wouldn't it be awesome to see some midrange decks again (other than mid-range shaman of course). Makes me wish for the good old days of midrange (aka secret) palladin. Ohh wait - I play mostly wild to avoid the flavor of the month standard. In wild midrange secret pally is king!
Yeah, it's hilarious that people say reno counters aggro yet my stats prove otherwise. Especially renolock which absolutely gets crushed by aggro. They lose like 90% of the time if they don't draw reno (which happens > 50% of the time), and the times they do draw reno they're maybe a 2 to 1 favorite to win. That's IF they make it to turn 6, and a fair # of aggro shaman vs renolock games result in a turn 4 or turn 5 kill.
Reno mage/priest are the hardest matchups since if mage has no play they can hero power to remove something, priest can hero power to heal. Renolock's hero power puts them 2 closer to my goal.
If you want to beat aggro you need something more consistent than hoping you draw 1 card that heals you to full. Especially when you play that card on a full board so that it has no effect: https://hsreplay.net/replay/97GojnGt62yufa8T4caUe7
It's either kill by turn 5 or conceed against any reno deck. It's close to a 50% chance they will have Reno by turn 6-7. And all they have to do is stay alive until they can play it. So why play anything else? At least you have a near 50% chance of killing them before they can play it. No other deck is even worth trying. This is the current meta.
what an absurd twisted way to explain the meta , Now the best answer to combat Pirate is the issue and not the pirates themselves that killed every other aggro or midrange deck that doesn't play that package (Dragon priest excluded )
You should get a job as a spokesman for some vicious dictator i see you have the necessary set of skills
Also, Reno is the cancer the idea that you can RNG an aggro deck to a loss if you make it to turn 6 is causing way too many aggro-less matchups go to fatigue.
When reno is gone and some of the aggro enabling OP shaman stuff is gone the meta will really morph in a positive way. Assuming that hunter is given something useful and they kill off auctioneer so that they can give rogue something decent and control oriented, I think it is safe to assume that much of the current aggro is going to go the way of the old face hunters.
wouldn't it be awesome to see some midrange decks again (other than mid-range shaman of course). Makes me wish for the good old days of midrange (aka secret) palladin. Ohh wait - I play mostly wild to avoid the flavor of the month standard. In wild midrange secret pally is king!
Yeah, it's hilarious that people say reno counters aggro yet my stats prove otherwise. Especially renolock which absolutely gets crushed by aggro. They lose like 90% of the time if they don't draw reno (which happens > 50% of the time), and the times they do draw reno they're maybe a 2 to 1 favorite to win. That's IF they make it to turn 6, and a fair # of aggro shaman vs renolock games result in a turn 4 or turn 5 kill.
Reno mage/priest are the hardest matchups since if mage has no play they can hero power to remove something, priest can hero power to heal. Renolock's hero power puts them 2 closer to my goal.
If you want to beat aggro you need something more consistent than hoping you draw 1 card that heals you to full. Especially when you play that card on a full board so that it has no effect: https://hsreplay.net/replay/97GojnGt62yufa8T4caUe7
Nobody is saying that Reno counters aggro. Reno makes it impossible to play anything else but turn 5 aggro. Which you've pointed out nicely with your stats.
The fact that people use the word cancer to describe decks is disgusting in my opinion. As far as I am concerned the way this community works is that no matter what, the most played decks in any meta will always be descibed as "cancer." Secret paladin was considered cancer, grim patron was called cancer, reno decks are called cancer, face hunter was called cancer, midrange shaman was called cancer, freeze mage is called cancer, jade druid is called cancer, pirate warrior is called cancer, miracle rogue has been called cancer, the old undertaker hunter was called cancer. Every deck that has been very successful in hearthstone has been referred to as cancer. No matter what new decks are created by new expansions or cards, if these decks are successful than they will be considered cancer by this community.
The thing about card games is that no matter what, there will always be at least one dominant deck. Also the most competitive decks in card games always tend to have something that is unfair about them. There are decks that have been problematic, overpowered and just not fun to play against, but none of them are what I would consider "cancerous."
-Those who do not understand true pain, can never understand true peace.-
the term "cancer" is used to describe something; be it a behaviour, strategy or trend; that becomes widespread in a community or game and "kills" the experience, like a cancerous growth would a human. by this loose definition, the only 2 decks in hearthstone history to be cancer were huntertaker and post-nerf karazhan midrange shaman.
Vvreeeew.
Is the topic title incomplete?
Did someone removed the ",said no one, ever"?
Well, I agree. The only problem for me is keep hating certain decks untill rotation is soon. Year ago I exepted all meta decks and started to enjoy playing them only last few mounth before rotation. Same thing is now. Have to say, im glad that yogg-saron/barnes clown fiesta is finally over.
And also, people who trying to create a Reno-cult by saying its difficult are making me laugh so hard. My top-3 favorite decks of all time is Freeze Mage, Miracle Rogue and pre-nerf Patrion Warrior, all of them counts as really skill heavy deck. Well, guess what, its not. ALL decks in hs are easy, even if its some desicion making problem you automaticaly playing like 7 cards to make best play after 200-300 games with this deck just because you already been in exact same situation, skill is just matter of expierience in this game. Like seriously, i never played post-rotation aggro shaman and i droped 10 rangs in few hours just because i didnt new how to play with something like "patches, lava burst and aya"-starting hand, than i picked miracle rogue which im playing since beta and easly get my rangs back without losing. And honestly, reno warlock probably would be in my top-3 if somebody will ask me to name most easy to learn decks. Aggro decks are much harder than control for me, since i almost never have my whole deck, so I have to calculate my highest possible damage in several turns before im gonna die every game that i dont have explosive opening or it was shuted down by early clear which is quite likely.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Also on another note, your Tunnel Trogg andTotem Golem opening will be gone. Amen to that. Can you name any other opening that compares?
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Tinkmaster Overspark loves Patches the Pirate 10/10 will turn to a 5/5 devilsaur.
Also, Reno is the cancer the idea that you can RNG an aggro deck to a loss if you make it to turn 6 is causing way too many aggro-less matchups go to fatigue.
When reno is gone and some of the aggro enabling OP shaman stuff is gone the meta will really morph in a positive way. Assuming that hunter is given something useful and they kill off auctioneer so that they can give rogue something decent and control oriented, I think it is safe to assume that much of the current aggro is going to go the way of the old face hunters.
wouldn't it be awesome to see some midrange decks again (other than mid-range shaman of course). Makes me wish for the good old days of midrange (aka secret) palladin. Ohh wait - I play mostly wild to avoid the flavor of the month standard. In wild midrange secret pally is king!
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman