You should watch the video. He said that gameplay will be more skillful in the upcoming rotation in addition to a question near the end of the presentation.
And yes in everything you do and I do, we all do politics is involved. Politics means being able to implement policies. If you don't agree at the receiving side, you may protest. Protest can take the form of activism. Even for such a seemingly unimportant thing as a card game aggro-politics are involved. It makes the game run fast and I agree on the psychological effect of winning while not winning. Whatever you do try to make it better, progress and as long as you are involved don't accept the status quo.
I think the main difference in thought here is that I don't view game design as a democracy. It is a meritocracy: those with skills run the show, and generally for good reason. They have the knowledge, experience, and expertise in the field which most people who actually play the game lack**. They are invested in making a good game, and therefore care about our feedback...as data (which they also have far more of than players do). Team 5 does not look to us for its goals.
So I reiterate: "activism" is meaningless in this context, especially in light of the fact that this is a third-party website with no connection to Blizzard. Our best form of impact is to express our concerns as clearly and concisely as possible. Not every authority needs to be regarded with suspicion, and as such I don't have a problem with the status quo insofar as how the game is run.
**
This is my obligatory, "They aren't perfect, I have some disagreements" section. In order to make it more than hand-waving, my very specific concerns are:
Pirates are too strong. This is not a particularly original or unique sentiment on my part.
The ladder system design is limited. It is intuitive, but at the same time promotes certain playstyles over others which I believe has led to the negative consequence of aggro being overrepresented throughout the history of Hearthstone.
MSoG is brutal to quirky deck design because the main archetypes were established early by Blizzard themselves. It means that as hard as you try you can't find better value than Jades orKazakus. If you want pressure it's weapons and Pirates. There aren't any "sleeper" cards that can outperform these.
Closely linked to the above concern is that the meta itself is overly polarized because Pirates and Reno/Jade are so good at what they do respectively. There is very little middle ground to stand on. "Fair" decks, like the traditional midrange that focus on solid steady pressure, have no place because they aren't utterly broken.
As a long-time Rogue player I still hate Gadgetzan Auctioneer for basically making the class unplayable without it. I'm also still a little irked that despite nerfing Blade Flurry Rogues have continued to receive extremely subpar weapon options, crippling that playstyle.
The basic/classet sets for certain classes are in dire need of appraisal. Otherwise as we've seen some classes will go through boom-and-bust cycles (like Shaman), or have it required that every expansion they receive another shot in the arm to keep going.
I made this thread because personally I miss the way hearthstone used to be. I feel like it went from a game that was fun to play with my friends to a game that I got pretty serious about and is now a game that I feel can only be enjoyed if I play with friends. I am by no means a game developer but some changes I would like to see are.
Make a game mode that doesn't allow netdecking or sites like heartharena, kind of like Reynoodle's open 50 packs and make a deck using those cards tournaments.
Maybe a mode that you can only enter if you have at least 10 different decks and when you que up you get one of your decks at random. This way it's a deck you made but you won't be able to play pirate warrior every game and you also won't run into pirate warriors every game. It would also force people to play all the heroes and get a better understanding of them which I think would be good for the game.
Stop nerfing combo decks. They have the highest skill cap and tend to keep aggro decks in check but lose to midrange and some control decks. Patron warrior is my favorite example because I rarely see it piloted correctly at lower ranks, it is very strong at high ranks, keeps aggro in check and punishes the user's misplays/slow thinking. If Warsong stopped giving charge after 3 attack it would let the Patrons still work but eliminate the OTK aspect and that would be just fine for me.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BLIZZARD STOP RELEASING STRONG 1 AND 2 DROPS!!! They aren't fun to play, they aren't fun to play against and there's no reason a rare 1 mana 1/2 should be the best card in the game.
I understand that aggro needs to exist but it is honestly sapping a lot of the fun out of the game and not just in playing it. I think we all remember when we first started and opened our first good legendary. When I opened Rag it was so exciting, I put him in all my decks and it was so cool to watch him burst out of the board and shoot massive fireballs that kill anything they hit. Now no one can run any big minions or legendaries except small aggro ones because of aggro shaman and pirate warrior. I opened Kun recently which is nice but I know that if I played 100 games with him I might play him 5 times so it doesn't feel special or cool. If they thought blade flurry was hurting design space, then why not do something about OP 1 drops since they prevent Blizzard from ever making a viable legendary that costs more than 5 or 6 mana,
You people keep using potato logic. You seriously think a game needs to cater to the casual fanbase in order to be successful? I suggest you start playing games like Dota or CS right now, which are massively successful games, and see if you can win a single game in your first 20 hours. It all depends on the focus you want to give to your game, and there have also been cases of games which have been successful at both the casual and hardcore player level, usually with a proper ranking system and balance between the classes/weapons/whatever. Blizzard has simply decided to send out a massive "screw you" to the competitive community for no reason at all, and anyone trying to justify it is way over their head.
And even out of this, I don't think blizzard are even making a good job of catering to the casuals. Pretty sure no one at ranks 15-20 likes to play against pirate warrior, secret paladin or the odd troll pro with mill druid every other game.
I suggest you start playing games like Dota or CS right now, which are massively successful games, and see if you can win a single game in your first 20 hours.
But this has nothing to do with whether your target audience is competitive or casual players? That's just a big middle finger to the new players.
I suggest you start playing games like Dota or CS right now, which are massively successful games, and see if you can win a single game in your first 20 hours.
But this has nothing to do with whether your target audience is competitive or casual players? That's just a big middle finger to the new players.
I'm not debating whether this is an "ethical" or "correct" way to implement a game, I'm merely commenting on people saying that money can't be made out of more "hardcore oriented" games.
And FYI there is more than enough target audience for these sort of games. Some people actually enjoy the grind of learning the game the hard way, as opposed to having stuff handed to them. You know, unlike the people who have been crying that hearthstone is pay to win on these forums since the day of beta, even though myself and many others have reached high legend rankings without ever spending a penny, or the ones that make threads complaining *insert x deck here* is "broken and unbeatable", when said deck is tier 3 and is never seen past rank 5.
I'm not debating whether this is an "ethical" or "correct" way to implement a game, I'm merely commenting on people saying that money can't be made out of more "hardcore oriented" games.
I think you're also overlooking that both of those games originate from an earlier era. They established themselves in a different atmosphere, one in which gaming was more of a niche hobby than an everyman pass time.
Trust me, I like DotA but the highly punishing new player experience has caused all of my friends to stop playing it after I introduced them to the game. You need a large pool of knowledge on exactly what every hero can do, which hero to choose for the team, what items exist, which items are best for your hero, the intricacies of the map, and the array of counter-intuitive mechanics just to not get yelled at as an insufferable scrub. The games are long and losses often drawn out where you are "losing" for 20-30 minutes. In essence, you have to be dedicated to the game in order to want to put up with that high entry barrier. Again, I think DotA is a good game but I suspect that if it were to be released fresh in this day and age it would flop.
I'm not debating whether this is an "ethical" or "correct" way to implement a game, I'm merely commenting on people saying that money can't be made out of more "hardcore oriented" games.
I think you're also overlooking that both of those games originate from an earlier era. They established themselves in a different atmosphere, one in which gaming was more of a niche hobby than an everyman pass time.
Trust me, I like DotA but the highly punishing new player experience has caused all of my friends to stop playing it after I introduced them to the game. You need a large pool of knowledge on exactly what every hero can do, which hero to choose for the team, what items exist, which items are best for your hero, the intricacies of the map, and the array of counter-intuitive mechanics just to not get yelled at as an insufferable scrub. The games are long and losses often drawn out where you are "losing" for 20-30 minutes. In essence, you have to be dedicated to the game in order to want to put up with that high entry barrier. Again, I think DotA is a good game but I suspect that if it were to be released fresh in this day and age it would flop.
If you want a more modern example, take a look at Dark Souls(not a fan of the series personally, but loads of people are).
Also, it's not just about having a hard entry barrier. It is completely possible to make a game accessible enough for beginners, while still be skill demanding enough at a high level to keep the "pros" engaged in the game(addressed this in an earlier post). It's just that blizzard has suddenly concluded their games are not worth the time or effort, when they still make millions just from people ranking up to rank 10 with dragon warrior.
That is exactly why WoW is trash and is no where near the game it once was and why Hearthstone is getting to be trash as well. To many RNG aspects run by Liberal developers that want everyone to have participation trophies and everyone to feel like they can ''win''. The problem is none of these 'wins' have any long lasting effect because they weren't earned so what we have is just a bunch ''who the hell cares mentality'' with no competitiveness or thought.
I don't know if you reread your statements above, but they are sure funny. " This game is not a democracy....its a meritocracy....those with skill run the show," First of all you probably right to imply that in a democracy people with no skill run the show, as we may see and hear from the fresh inaugurate calling himself president of a country where HS was invented. But what I sincerely doubt is meritocracy consisting of the skillful. As you may know I don't believe in the quality of devs to make a balanced, creative skill game. Their card design capabilities have proven up till now max to be an aggro-skill. in this respect their primary goal is the cash cow.
For the rest of your comment I never expected you to be influenced by me. Activism is an awareness, A awareness that something is wrong and must be made right. Especially when rationality fails and living by the rules means harboring unfairness, injustice, even prejudice.
I see this game as a product and an expansion as an update. If an update fails (here e.g. the pirates, or the inviability of hunter in ranked) of any kind of product, consumers will protest and the manufacturer will quickly respond. Not so with Blizzard. If an update of your software partly disables your mainframe, you will protest. Blizzard?.....well Blizzard presents you the well known finger. Of course the other part of your mainframe can still be used, so wait 3 months till the next update. You will get green and purple at the same time. Blizzard can pull this off because there's no activism, no consequence while the masses are intellectually lazy. And of course because of the fact that there are people like you ready to defend unfairness. No offence.
Never post again.
The game doesn't have to cater to you. You have the right to complain, but only on the same way a guy shouting at a bakery why won't they make smartphones has the right to complain.
Def a salt thread. Legend players push "free" advertisement of the game to gamers on twitch and other tourneys. This entices non-legend players to play more and/or invest to increase card collection. Of course, it's in blizzard's best interest to cater to the top 1% in some fashion. This dude is cray cray...
Def a salt thread. Legend players push "free" advertisement of the game to gamers on twitch and other tourneys. This entices non-legend players to play more and/or invest to increase card collection. Of course, it's in blizzard's best interest to cater to the top 1% in some fashion. This dude is cray cray...
Since when does 99% says it's good? Every single friend I have in real life or in battle.net isn't satifyed with the game now but keeps playing because it is addictive. The "top 1000" is BULLSHIT, there is no such thing as being a top player in hearthstone, this is a lame RNG game, if you get to rank 5 you are just as good as anyone, if you want to get legend you just have to waste your time. I've hit legend 3 times but most of the seasons I hit rank 10 or something because I there is no real benefit to wasting my time every season.
How many people are there like me? Who are "good" at the game but low rank at most seasons? The most stupid thing is, I'll be used in the percentage of players who is casual and happy with the game even though I think this game is the worst it has ever been and need some serious changes.
It's called a metaphor. What, do you expect me to research the actual percentage of who says it's good? What percentage of the Hearthstone player base do you think "every single friend you have in real life" represents?
I'll never understand why people who think HS is a lame RNG game sticks around so much. Find other games that caters to your needs. Maybe Blizzard WANTS HS to be an RNG game, and they have expressed that they want some amount of RNG. I'm certain that's not going to change.
If you don't like the food at a restaurant, you can wave your fists in the air and scream into the clouds, or you can find a different place to eat. It's not YOUR restaurant. It doesn't have to cater to your every whim.
I wouldn't say it's lame, but it's definitely an RnG game. You honestly couldn't play it and then claim otherwise.
That doesn't mean to say there aren't other factors involved, but RnG is one of the biggest factors involved. (Especially when every other card and it's mum has the word "random" somewhere on it)...
You don't even know what a metaphor is, and when you said 99%, you meant it as an approximate number. The reason why I gave my real life friends as examples is because they are mostly casual and certainly don't play as much as I do, and still they complain about the game even more.
"I'll never understand why people who think HS is a lame RNG game sticks around so much" As I told you before, it is an addictive game and it has a lot of potential to be one of the best games of this time, but it is so badly managed by Blizzard's shitty ass team who understands less about the game than Kripp or any other intelligent "pro" player that the game might as well be labeled as the worst flip a coin mini game ever.
lolskill. it's about time management, not skill. i could definitely make the slog up to legend if i actually cared to but...i just don't have time for that grind. it sucks but ya know, this IS just a children's card game. i think a lot of players all over need to take a look in the mirror and stop taking themselves so seriously. it's great to have goals, but when your goal is to be heard by billion(s) dollar company over your, 'skill,' in a children's card game meant to keep someone occupied on their train ride to work, your priorities seriously need to be looked at.
Spoken like a true aggro-player, defending Brode and consort for carddesign that favours a fast meta, which means cheap, low skill cap, easy winfix/laddering, focussing on expanding the playerbase, ergo increase revenues quickly (20 MILLION A MONTH). You can't deny and not justyfied angry, that carddesign is not focussed on a slower meta as that would mean less income by the very fact of a higher skill cap.
Posts like this make me sick. Ad hominem laden, conspiracy "they're out to get us" mentality, spouting nothing but salt in response to a reasonable post. Unprovable retorts, pointless argumentation. Slower meta means less income? Can you justify even saying that? Something to support it? Did you take the 5 seconds to consider that fast meta and aggro caters more to the F2P than to the people buying packs with money? Sigh...
Yeah, but he did at least spell it "justyfied". That's worth at least part of a giggle? 8)
First of all you probably right to imply that in a democracy people with no skill run the show, as we may see and hear from the fresh inaugurate calling himself president of a country where HS was invented.
First of all you probably right to imply that in a democracy people with no skill run the show, as we may see and hear from the fresh inaugurate calling himself president of a country where HS was invented.
First of all you probably right to imply that in a democracy people with no skill run the show, as we may see and hear from the fresh inaugurate calling himself president of a country where HS was invented.
Ooh! Let's play: "Spot the sore, whiny liberal!"
Yeah, you can probably leave now...
Sort of pot calling the kettle black...
Would be correct if I was a liberal. I'm not, so.... yeah. #awkward...
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This is my obligatory, "They aren't perfect, I have some disagreements" section. In order to make it more than hand-waving, my very specific concerns are:
I made this thread because personally I miss the way hearthstone used to be. I feel like it went from a game that was fun to play with my friends to a game that I got pretty serious about and is now a game that I feel can only be enjoyed if I play with friends. I am by no means a game developer but some changes I would like to see are.
I understand that aggro needs to exist but it is honestly sapping a lot of the fun out of the game and not just in playing it. I think we all remember when we first started and opened our first good legendary. When I opened Rag it was so exciting, I put him in all my decks and it was so cool to watch him burst out of the board and shoot massive fireballs that kill anything they hit. Now no one can run any big minions or legendaries except small aggro ones because of aggro shaman and pirate warrior. I opened Kun recently which is nice but I know that if I played 100 games with him I might play him 5 times so it doesn't feel special or cool. If they thought blade flurry was hurting design space, then why not do something about OP 1 drops since they prevent Blizzard from ever making a viable legendary that costs more than 5 or 6 mana,
You people keep using potato logic. You seriously think a game needs to cater to the casual fanbase in order to be successful? I suggest you start playing games like Dota or CS right now, which are massively successful games, and see if you can win a single game in your first 20 hours. It all depends on the focus you want to give to your game, and there have also been cases of games which have been successful at both the casual and hardcore player level, usually with a proper ranking system and balance between the classes/weapons/whatever. Blizzard has simply decided to send out a massive "screw you" to the competitive community for no reason at all, and anyone trying to justify it is way over their head.
And even out of this, I don't think blizzard are even making a good job of catering to the casuals. Pretty sure no one at ranks 15-20 likes to play against pirate warrior, secret paladin or the odd troll pro with mill druid every other game.
That is exactly why WoW is trash and is no where near the game it once was and why Hearthstone is getting to be trash as well. To many RNG aspects run by Liberal developers that want everyone to have participation trophies and everyone to feel like they can ''win''. The problem is none of these 'wins' have any long lasting effect because they weren't earned so what we have is just a bunch ''who the hell cares mentality'' with no competitiveness or thought.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Def a salt thread. Legend players push "free" advertisement of the game to gamers on twitch and other tourneys. This entices non-legend players to play more and/or invest to increase card collection. Of course, it's in blizzard's best interest to cater to the top 1% in some fashion. This dude is cray cray...
It's called a metaphor. What, do you expect me to research the actual percentage of who says it's good? What percentage of the Hearthstone player base do you think "every single friend you have in real life" represents?
I'll never understand why people who think HS is a lame RNG game sticks around so much. Find other games that caters to your needs. Maybe Blizzard WANTS HS to be an RNG game, and they have expressed that they want some amount of RNG. I'm certain that's not going to change.
If you don't like the food at a restaurant, you can wave your fists in the air and scream into the clouds, or you can find a different place to eat. It's not YOUR restaurant. It doesn't have to cater to your every whim.
If you got the coin, the Mercenaries get going. Vote for The Mercenary for CCC #3.
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ModeratorI wouldn't say it's lame, but it's definitely an RnG game.
You honestly couldn't play it and then claim otherwise.
That doesn't mean to say there aren't other factors involved, but RnG is one of the biggest factors involved. (Especially when every other card and it's mum has the word "random" somewhere on it)...
You don't even know what a metaphor is, and when you said 99%, you meant it as an approximate number. The reason why I gave my real life friends as examples is because they are mostly casual and certainly don't play as much as I do, and still they complain about the game even more.
"I'll never understand why people who think HS is a lame RNG game sticks around so much" As I told you before, it is an addictive game and it has a lot of potential to be one of the best games of this time, but it is so badly managed by Blizzard's shitty ass team who understands less about the game than Kripp or any other intelligent "pro" player that the game might as well be labeled as the worst flip a coin mini game ever.
lolskill. it's about time management, not skill. i could definitely make the slog up to legend if i actually cared to but...i just don't have time for that grind. it sucks but ya know, this IS just a children's card game. i think a lot of players all over need to take a look in the mirror and stop taking themselves so seriously. it's great to have goals, but when your goal is to be heard by billion(s) dollar company over your, 'skill,' in a children's card game meant to keep someone occupied on their train ride to work, your priorities seriously need to be looked at.
Just stop playing on the phone and they would stop focusing on that aspect - no market no reason to continue the phone buisness
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ModeratorI'm not, so.... yeah. #awkward...