Hearthpwn

I meet opponents with Legend card backs all the time on the way up, and some of them are atrocious. I figure they must have had a good run once with aggro hunter in it's prime or whatever. 

I never liked the attitude 'Anyone can do it if they put in the time' that people make about hitting Legend, if you haven't done it don't speculate that you can because its a lot harder the closer you get.

Its also not very convincing when someone tries to make the argument that hitting Legend is just time when their posts are littered with grammatical errors.  If you can't take the time to proofread you probably aren't taking the time to make the correct play or reading the opponents hand.  Those things make a huge difference.

I will say though, the game at rank 15 now is a lot harder than it was a year ago, and there are two players on my friends list that haven't hit legend but they could probably hold their own in a pro tournament.  There are a lot of legit players out there that have never hit Legend for various reason, but that's not the whole community like this post insinuates.

The truth is, we all make the same play 90% of the time, its that other 10% that's the difference.  

Quote from Timowil1 >>

It takes me like 18-20 hours to reach legend, i play mostly in the middle of the season and reach rank 5 in the last weak because its a lot easier then :P. I only play troll decks to rank 5. (20 secret mage and stuff like that, pretty fun :P ppl even want the decklist hahahah put all the secrets in it, still beats ''meta decks'')

legend is worthless unless you want to play tournaments.

legend is only for bragging rights that you made it 7 times or 40 times w/e

 

Quote from Iceman805 >>

So I'm starting to watch other players play HS (particularly pro players) and as I see them playing at legend ranks...it seems like the decks at legend are similar (if not exactly the same) to decks at rank 15- rank 10- and rank 5. Also, after watching other players...I see very similar plays that I would make- though not always. I would not argue that I'm as good as a pro player HOWEVER...

seems to me that the biggest difference between someone at legend and someone at say rank 15-5... is time. Players that hit legend simply have more time to play more games and therefore with any positive win rate can reach legend (after enough games).

Do you agree that time is the biggest difference or do you think otherwise? I'm curious to hear reasoning for or against this argument.

It has to be time, i've been legend multiple times but i'm also no legend multiple time. It's definite not because "its too hard" or "im not good enough", it's simply because a lot of the time I think doing other things than sitting at a computer and grinding are much more appealing.

Time, experience, skill all play a role; but there's a major corollary to Time, and that's Patience.  The ability to not get frustrated, hurried, bored or distracted.  To actually focus on each and every play as if the game revolved on that particular turn.  To me, that's where the biggest gap exists.

Of course time is a factor. But its not as big as some people here might think.

The more skill (or how i call it "experience") you have with a deck the higher your winrate will be. For me that is a fact. There are of course decks that require more experience to be good with (eg. Freeze Mage) and decks that require less experience to be good with (eg. pirate warrior).  

Lets hypothetically say a deck like freeze mage is on 55% winrate over all players (just in theory). That means there are more and less experienced players playing the deck. So some players are really experienced with the deck and constantly get 60% winrate. You'd say their experience makes around 5% winrate more than the average player.

Lets assume two players reached rank 5 and are going for legend one with 55% and one with 60% winrate. You need 6 stars to climb a rank so 30 in total. With 55% winrate that means you are getting somewhere around 2 stars (winning 11 games losing 9 games) in 20 games which means you should need somewhere around 300 games to get from rank 5 to legend. Now lets look at the player with 60% winrate. He gets around 4 stars per 20 games (winning 12 losing 8). This player therefor needs 150 Games to rech legend from rank 5. 

Lets say the games for both players take an average of 8 minutes. So the 55% player needs 40 Hours to reach legend from rank 5 while the 60% player only needs 20 Hours.

To sum this up. Time is of course an important factor but experience saves you a LOT of time on the grind. So the more experienced you are with a deck the less time you need to reach legend. 

And here we are at rank 15. People dont know their matchups people make mistakes and missplays and im not even talking about the obvious ones like forgetting a heropower or something like that.  Thats why they are rank 15 until they get more experienced with a certain deck. 

So some people arent reaching legend because their experience isnt big enough which would result in a tedious grind with more than double the amount of games (and time invested ofc) to reach legend than the more experienced player.

Normally the 55% player from this example is the one that says "if i had more time on hand i'd reach legend easily" - which is probably true but doesnt say that having time on hand is the only reason some people rech legend constantly while others never gonna get there regardless if they reach rank5 every season. They both may have exactly the same time for playing but one is rank3 while the other already reached legend

I'd say if you're talking specifically about Rank 15 and Legend, and not like R5 and Legend, then the significant difference is lacking cards. When I was only able to hit R15, the only deck I was able to make was a Dr.Boom-less mech mage. Once I made Dr. Boom I was hitting R10 easily.

If the comparison is made to Rank 5, I'd say time is definitely a common factor, but it's not exactly that lack of time prevents people from climbing to legend, but that there's tons of reasons why people don't want to spend time on it. For one, the digital rewards for making it to Legend after the first time is just one more golden common card which is pretty irrelevant. For two, at R5-R1 the decks are virtually identical and without a win bonus it just seems way more slow than earlier ranks. With these combined factors, the game loses its fun, and of course with high ranks there's generally less misplays, and you get punished harder for losing.

I mean, sure, if you have a family + a full time job, then it's clearly you simply don't have enough time. But there's several reasons for why people don't want to invest time into it in the first place.

everything in this game is fucking rigged .

legend players experiment with decks more and they most importantly, don't whine and complain that aggro is cancer and seek to improve and learn from others.Also, after they have lost a match, they don't add u as friend just to say f**k u.

At an 80% winrate, even at half an hour of playing a night, you would be somewhere in the top 100 legend posting every season. 

Time is definitely a factor, but is no means the reason that someone is at rank 15 and not at rank 5 or even legend for that matter. I am not the best player, in fact I would be reluctant to even consider myself average. Only had a slightly positive winrate with aggro shaman at rank 15 the other day and could not figure out at all why I wasn't win streaking at all. I switched to control warrior, and am now at rank 11. It does come down who is able to make more optimal plays and create the better percentage to win. Pros and popular streamers are not exempt from this. It just so happens that aggro and lower curve decks in general have an easier time figuring out what is the most optimal line of play. So in short, I disagree. I think time has very little to do with how high you rank at the end of the season. Figuring out the best meta at your rank and building a counter to it using optimal strategies are the best way to advance.

80% win rate is around top 10 to 20 legend. top 100 just require 60% winrate

Exactly. So I'm saying that, someone with that winrate should be legend no doubt. Yet, they are not, and they attribute that to not having enough time. 

You're definitely right about the time thing.  There are probably a bunch of players at rank 10-15 that *could* hit legend if they could play for 30 hours a week.

But there are other factors too.  One that I think people don't realise is that what look like 'net decks' at rank 15 sometimes aren't - they are approximations of net decks with cards missing.  You won't necessarily notice that the Miracle Rogue you are up against doesn't have Leeroy.  Or that the Dragon Priest only has one Twilight Guardian.  Or that the Control Warrior deck only has one Brawl.  But that is the reality for a lot of players playing at these ranks and it knocks their win-rate down a few notches.

So I see a lot of comments stating that time is not the only factor- you need a strategic brain, the right cards, sometimes even need to have good luck, whether it's match ups, top decking or getting the exact totem needed...let me restate the original argument.

Time is the BIGGEST factor to hitting legend.

Not the ONLY factor. Just the biggest.

^its kinda hilarious how 4 pages of comments won't change that never hit legend opinion..(half the comments are saying skill is the most important factor those are people who have played r3-legend... then you have the other half who have never been past rank 5 probably never been past rank 15 say time is the most major factor) now back to the "original argument"

Time is a factor to hitting legend, however its one of the most minuscule factors.

Skill is the largest factor when hitting legend.

I mean doesn't it sound a little crazy? I'd imagine there are quite a lot of players who would love to get to legend and get the cardback if investing time was the only requirement? people normally aren't that delusional and understand skill, experience, being up to date, and playing regularly are all more important factors then time...

This thread was obviously made to make yourself feel better about not being able to hit legend and honestly deserves to be in the salt thread its pretty pathetic. ask any pro or any serious hearthstone player and your going to get the same answer over and over again.

Quote from Relashio24 >>

^its kinda hilarious how 4 pages of comments won't change that never hit legend opinion..(half the comments are saying skill is the most important factor those are people who have played r3-legend... then you have the other half who have never been past rank 5 probably never been past rank 15 say time is the most major factor) now back to the "original argument"

Time is a factor to hitting legend, however its one of the most minuscule factors.

Skill is the largest factor when hitting legend.

I mean doesn't it sound a little crazy? I'd imagine there are quite a lot of players who would love to get to legend and get the cardback if investing time was the only requirement? people normally aren't that delusional and understand skill, experience, being up to date, and playing regularly are all more important factors then time...

This thread was obviously made to make yourself feel better about not being able to hit legend and honestly deserves to be in the salt thread its pretty pathetic. ask any pro or any serious hearthstone player and your going to get the same answer over and over again.