Mate this thread is not about Standard/Wild comparison. It is more like an advice to the newbies.
I mean, it's a valid point still; if your concern is that you want to be able to play cards you earned for the rest of forever, you have Wild as a legitimate format. Other than the people grinding HCT points there's not much of a difference as Rank 5 in either ladder is going to net you a golden epic. Standard actually requires you to own even less cards to remain relevant in the format, and if you look at something like Old Gods requires you to dip in to less sets than in the past to build a cohesive deck; now let's imagine a hypothetical world where GvG/Naxx were still around, and tell me that's a design that's friendlier to new players.
I'd also say you're entitled to your opinions, but I'm failing to see how this is the most hostile f2p model out there; as someone pointed out, you literally just farm quests and receive 75 packs per expansion. If that's not enough, then Arena is still a legit way to grind out a collection (albeit slower than in the past unfortunately)... and decks like Midrange Shaman are top tier without a particularly high dust cost to go with it. You certainly will need to fork over cash if you want cards quickly, but even in a game like Eternal that has a very generous f2p system that's still the reality; this is easily one of the most affordable card games you can ladder competitively with.
The argument Blizzard doesn't care about balance is also just pure hyperbole, they clearly do care about balance; they just don't implement changes often and try to let the meta resolve itself. Welcome to card games though, where you simply aren't going to be able to publish new cards without breaking a few things along the way. MTG is no different, Eternal is no different, Elder Scrolls is no different, and I would wager Shadowverse is no different. Now if both of these things are not to your taste is a different matter and I can certainly respect a difference of opinion, but there's nothing really to demonize Team 5 for.
As someone else pointed out, regardless of if you spend money or not you should spend some time and read up on top decks and look through the many f2p/budget lists published out there; craft what you need, keep the upcoming rotation in mind if you're concerned about only getting two more months of value out of the cards (so basically avoid BRM, TGT, and LOE), and for the most part play if the game is fun. If the game becomes unfun, evaluate if it's something money would help or look into another game so you're not just sinking hours into something you don't enjoy; like I said, Eternal has an excellent f2p model and I encourage anyone tired of HS to take a look and see if it suits their fancy.
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Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
I've got all golden heros except rogue - that's a lot of games. I've bought a few packs. My advice to newbies - understand that each expansion is a massive con to spike sales so that Blizzard can keep the money rolling in. If you are not playing the currently broken decks - currently pirate warrior dragon priest or shaman with spirit claws or Renno Mage or Renno loc you will not experience much success. This means your rank does not really reflect much about your skill - just how long you spend grinding an efficient deck. Blizzard let the broken decks run until everybody has jumped on board the current cancer wagon then nerf the broken synergies and release a new expansion to excite sales again. It's poisonous and frustrating - I suggest finding something else or resolving never to spend money on this shit because I regret every dollar I've given them.
Zero content in OP's post that wasn't in the megathreads when Standard was first announced. Can boil the entire thing down into one sentence: "I'm in the faction that doesn't like set rotation in collectible card games".
Mate this thread is not about Standard/Wild comparison. It is more like an advice to the newbies.
Yes, and your "advice to the newbies" is "don't spend money on this game because I don't like Standard".
How can you be happy with Standard? They promised balance and diversity when they were removing half of my collection from Standart play and failed miserably to balance the game and make it even more unbalanced with only 3 playable classes.
I've played since beta and spent somewhat $600-700 on hearthstone, half of it being virtual currrency from Diablo auction. Not that much for hours of fun i had if you ask me.
Made an F2P account as well, my collection isn't that shiny there, but i can make virtually any of these SMOrc "meta" deck as well as some control ones just by doing dailies, nothing more.
To spend or not to spent is up to you, tho i find it rather poor investment of time to grind these 100 extra gold winning 30 games every day. At least the welcome pack is worth it, even for newbies.
Standard is just a crappy castrated game mode, you hardly lose anything when it rotates out of it. Just play wild.
One major benefit that always goes unsaid about F2P is that they're locked in to a deck. If you're F2P and your only deck is Aggro Shaman, that's all you can play and you will master it.
I have a full collection and have played about 25 different decks this season. That's just not a great formula for laddering. Some were very bad (went from r8 to r18 at one point) some were very good, but right now I'm fried on all the Tier 1 decks so its a bit funner to take a few more losses and have fun.
My advise for newbies is to have fun and don't take the game too seriously (I have made that mistake and it's not worth it). As far as money goes everything is achievable through in game gold so if your not in a hurry (and let's face it we are not, otherwise we would't be playing videogames XD) it's not really worth the "investment".
And most important be nice to people and HAVE FUN!
OP does not seem to understand that the money he spent before Standard is exactly what makes it possible for him to play without paying now.
If you pay to accelerate your acquisition of Classic cards, those are yours forever. You cannot honestly pretend that they don't matter moving forward, whether you prefer Standard or Wild.
Because I spent real cash in the past, I had a pretty solid Classic collection at the start of 2016. I could easily have played this whole past year without spending a dime. My gold was more than enough to get me all the expansion cards I needed. But I would never, NEVER have been able to do that if I were still purchasing Classic packs in search of Ysera.
(In reality, I did spend cash in 2016 because I liked the bonus cardbacks. But I didn't need to.)
Another factor is time, which the OP erroneously glosses over. There have been 83 Tavern Brawls to date. Subtracting the very few that didn't have pack rewards, that's still 80 Classic packs you've received that new players will never have a chance to obtain. Not to mention the months and months of normal quest rewards that you've received.
No, seriously, if you spent money early on and have enjoyed the benefits of that solid foundation all this time, you really have no business telling newbies how foolish it is to spend cash. Start a new account and try playing f2p for a few months, then come back here and tell us how much fun you're having.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Those of us who did spend money on the game pre-any talks of rotating cards out ... have been well and truly screwed by Blizz. That is just plain fact. So, I agree. In fact I would advise brand new players to just forget this game and play some fun app games instead.
NOT just plain fact...more like an opinion. I have spent (and continue to spend) money on this game. I've been playing since December of 2014 and don't regret spending any money on HS. I am a long-time MtG player, and also play ESL occasionally; but my favorite game out of all three is HearthStone.
I play both Standard and Wild format and I am perfectly fine with the fact that some cards are only available in the latter. If you don't like the game, that's fine...then don't play it; but telling other (especially brand-new) players that they should play some other games is not a decision for you to make. Let them play and decide for themselves.
I'm sorry but hearthstone is by far the best f2p model I have encountered. One good deck is all a player needs to do a fair amount with this game, players have gone legend (Reynad one example) with free to play accounts. Rotation only helps free to play players as the card pool stays small enough that new players aren't chasing ridiculous numbers of cards. Every single aspect of this game is purchasable with in game currency including adventures which I think is outstanding. I play on mobile and the biggest parallel I can draw is Clash of Clans where you hit almost a brick wall at town halls 9 and 10 without investment. I've been free to play until 2 weeks ago and I've had a viable Renolock and aggro shaman list for ages. Literally the only boundary for free to play players is time and skill. I look at games like FIFA that charges you £50 up front every year and still charge you for packs with a far more unforgiving model for f2p. I have arguably the best 2 or 3 cards in hearthstone but I don't have Ronaldo and Messi.
All in all the joy I've got out of this game without putting money in is incredible and if I wanted money would allow me to enjoy it more by crafting more silly fringe cards.
My advise for newbies is to have fun and don't take the game too seriously (I have made that mistake and it's not worth it). As far as money goes everything is achievable through in game gold so if your not in a hurry (and let's face it we are not, otherwise we would't be playing videogames XD) it's not really worth the "investment".
And most important be nice to people and HAVE FUN!
Good advice IMO!
My own experience: I started just over a year ago, and bought Naxx, BRM and LoE. Soon after I set up an account for my son but he didn't bother with it so I've played it myself as F2P (apart from the Welcome Pack). I get about the same amount of enjoyment from both, and will have a similar card pool in both when BRM and LoE rotate out. I play casual mainly as I find laddering to be frustrating, and mostly do dailies and mess with new decks. I don't plan to spend money but I'm not hard over about it if another good 'Welcome pack' deal comes out. I think the most precious thing you have is time so would advise new players with any sort of access to paid work to forget about grinding the 30 wins per day for a 100g pack as a way to build your collection faster than dailies/brawl, unless you are convinced it's a good use of your time.
I'd like to add my own advice to the newbies: RUN while you still can. Play a better game instead which is actually fun.
Oh god this. If I could go back in time I'd definitely tell my younger self to never get close to this game, ever. Not because it's addictive, fun or anything (it isn't) but because it's a frustrating mismanaged mess that I'm just too late to completely quit now because the idea of not doing my dailies is impossible by now.
Stay away guys, there's plenty, PLENTY of better card games out there. It is too late for me, but not for you. This game doesn't deserve your time, even less your money.
I'd like to add my own advice to the newbies: RUN while you still can. Play a better game instead which is actually fun.
Oh god this. If I could go back in time I'd definitely tell my younger self to never get close to this game, ever. Not because it's addictive, fun or anything (it isn't) but because it's a frustrating mismanaged mess that I'm just too late to completely quit now because the idea of not doing my dailies is impossible by now.
Stay away guys, there's plenty, PLENTY of better card games out there. It is too late for me, but not for you. This game doesn't deserve your time, even less your money.
I mean I get that it's hard to give up on something you've sunk a lot of time/money into, but if it's not fun it really just takes you exercising a little willpower and finding a new game. If there are better card games out there, why not just play them? Short of Team 5 holding a family member hostage or blackmailing you, I don't think there's much logical reason not to just swap to something you actually enjoy. If you have to take a time machine to save John Connor stop yourself from being unable to move on from a game, you should probably work on that.
If the game isn't fun for people, they should certainly quit (and most people will). I'd wager overly salty individuals on forums or Reddit are more likely to turn them away than Patches is though.
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Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
I am a newbie and I did spend money on this game. The way I see it, is that by paying some money to get quick start or get ahead you are saving yourself time spent grinding. And time is by far the most valuable currency you have in your life. Each day you have less of it at your disposal.
And unfortunately, amount of money spent is relative, not absolute value.
I'd like to add my own advice to the newbies: RUN while you still can. Play a better game instead which is actually fun.
Oh god this. If I could go back in time I'd definitely tell my younger self to never get close to this game, ever. Not because it's addictive, fun or anything (it isn't) but because it's a frustrating mismanaged mess that I'm just too late to completely quit now because the idea of not doing my dailies is impossible by now.
Stay away guys, there's plenty, PLENTY of better card games out there. It is too late for me, but not for you. This game doesn't deserve your time, even less your money.
So the game is a frustrating mismanaged mess that isn't fun, yet you have to complete your daily quests, continue to play it, and even browse and post on forums related to Hearthstone...
That makes absolutely no sense. I don't continue to play games that I don't like.
Shouldn't the advice be the opposite? Best advice to newbies is actually to spend some money, either to buy adventures or a few dozen packs. It doesn't have to be an obscene amount, but it's just too hard to get going without some seed investment. The game seems consciously designed to punish people who don't invest.
When I started last year I just broke down and bought Naxxramas because I could not be competitive without Sludge Belcher and co. I was a lot happier when I did.
The problem with Free to Play -- is that you achieve access to 50 times more ingame content from going to work an extra day, for 8 hours, than playing for 8 hours; You'll have to play the game for 8 hours 50 days extra to achieve the same as an extra day at work would give you.
... Notice I said this is the problem with Free to Play. The fact that the devs/publishers rather want you to go to work and then pay them, rather than playing the game to unlock the content, is the shady part. Especially because there is no spending cap:
Like; An ethical Free to Play game would limit your spending to 100$, and give you unlimited free access to all content at that point, possibly still allowing the purchase of additional cosmetics purely to offer a way to further support the game.
How can you be happy with Standard? They promised balance and diversity when they were removing half of my collection from Standart play and failed miserably to balance the game and make it even more unbalanced with only 3 playable classes.
I'm perfectly satisfied with the balance and diversity in Standard. It's not even remotely true that there are "only 3 playable classes". As always, there are some decks that are particularly strong (same as every other moment in Hearthstone's history, and every moment in the history of every other CCG ever made). But there are counters to them.
And if you've got a problem with half your collection not being usable in Standard, then play Wild. Honestly, you come across like someone punching himself in the nads and then complaining that it hurts.
I'd like to add my own advice to the newbies: RUN while you still can. Play a better game instead which is actually fun.
Oh god this. If I could go back in time I'd definitely tell my younger self to never get close to this game, ever. Not because it's addictive, fun or anything (it isn't) but because it's a frustrating mismanaged mess that I'm just too late to completely quit now because the idea of not doing my dailies is impossible by now.
Stay away guys, there's plenty, PLENTY of better card games out there. It is too late for me, but not for you. This game doesn't deserve your time, even less your money.
So the game is a frustrating mismanaged mess that isn't fun, yet you have to complete your daily quests, continue to play it, and even browse and post on forums related to Hearthstone...
That makes absolutely no sense. I don't continue to play games that I don't like.
Falbrogna's posts are usually like that, they just don't make any sense. This guy comes to Hearthpwn usually to express his disdain towards the community and Hearthstone, and yet he usually plays it and wastes time of his life talking about it here. Of course, that is not something a smart person would do, but it's sad because there are many like him. :(
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
I've got all golden heros except rogue - that's a lot of games. I've bought a few packs. My advice to newbies - understand that each expansion is a massive con to spike sales so that Blizzard can keep the money rolling in. If you are not playing the currently broken decks - currently pirate warrior dragon priest or shaman with spirit claws or Renno Mage or Renno loc you will not experience much success. This means your rank does not really reflect much about your skill - just how long you spend grinding an efficient deck. Blizzard let the broken decks run until everybody has jumped on board the current cancer wagon then nerf the broken synergies and release a new expansion to excite sales again. It's poisonous and frustrating - I suggest finding something else or resolving never to spend money on this shit because I regret every dollar I've given them.
Zero content in OP's post that wasn't in the megathreads when Standard was first announced. Can boil the entire thing down into one sentence: "I'm in the faction that doesn't like set rotation in collectible card games".
Dead but dreaming
I've played since beta and spent somewhat $600-700 on hearthstone, half of it being virtual currrency from Diablo auction. Not that much for hours of fun i had if you ask me.
Made an F2P account as well, my collection isn't that shiny there, but i can make virtually any of these SMOrc "meta" deck as well as some control ones just by doing dailies, nothing more.
To spend or not to spent is up to you, tho i find it rather poor investment of time to grind these 100 extra gold winning 30 games every day. At least the welcome pack is worth it, even for newbies.
Standard is just a crappy castrated game mode, you hardly lose anything when it rotates out of it. Just play wild.
One major benefit that always goes unsaid about F2P is that they're locked in to a deck. If you're F2P and your only deck is Aggro Shaman, that's all you can play and you will master it.
I have a full collection and have played about 25 different decks this season. That's just not a great formula for laddering. Some were very bad (went from r8 to r18 at one point) some were very good, but right now I'm fried on all the Tier 1 decks so its a bit funner to take a few more losses and have fun.
My advise for newbies is to have fun and don't take the game too seriously (I have made that mistake and it's not worth it). As far as money goes everything is achievable through in game gold so if your not in a hurry (and let's face it we are not, otherwise we would't be playing videogames XD) it's not really worth the "investment".
And most important be nice to people and HAVE FUN!
OP does not seem to understand that the money he spent before Standard is exactly what makes it possible for him to play without paying now.
If you pay to accelerate your acquisition of Classic cards, those are yours forever. You cannot honestly pretend that they don't matter moving forward, whether you prefer Standard or Wild.
Because I spent real cash in the past, I had a pretty solid Classic collection at the start of 2016. I could easily have played this whole past year without spending a dime. My gold was more than enough to get me all the expansion cards I needed. But I would never, NEVER have been able to do that if I were still purchasing Classic packs in search of Ysera.
(In reality, I did spend cash in 2016 because I liked the bonus cardbacks. But I didn't need to.)
Another factor is time, which the OP erroneously glosses over. There have been 83 Tavern Brawls to date. Subtracting the very few that didn't have pack rewards, that's still 80 Classic packs you've received that new players will never have a chance to obtain. Not to mention the months and months of normal quest rewards that you've received.
No, seriously, if you spent money early on and have enjoyed the benefits of that solid foundation all this time, you really have no business telling newbies how foolish it is to spend cash. Start a new account and try playing f2p for a few months, then come back here and tell us how much fun you're having.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
"There is no spoon"
I'm sorry but hearthstone is by far the best f2p model I have encountered. One good deck is all a player needs to do a fair amount with this game, players have gone legend (Reynad one example) with free to play accounts. Rotation only helps free to play players as the card pool stays small enough that new players aren't chasing ridiculous numbers of cards. Every single aspect of this game is purchasable with in game currency including adventures which I think is outstanding. I play on mobile and the biggest parallel I can draw is Clash of Clans where you hit almost a brick wall at town halls 9 and 10 without investment. I've been free to play until 2 weeks ago and I've had a viable Renolock and aggro shaman list for ages. Literally the only boundary for free to play players is time and skill. I look at games like FIFA that charges you £50 up front every year and still charge you for packs with a far more unforgiving model for f2p. I have arguably the best 2 or 3 cards in hearthstone but I don't have Ronaldo and Messi.
All in all the joy I've got out of this game without putting money in is incredible and if I wanted money would allow me to enjoy it more by crafting more silly fringe cards.
save John Connorstop yourself from being unable to move on from a game, you should probably work on that.Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
I am a newbie and I did spend money on this game. The way I see it, is that by paying some money to get quick start or get ahead you are saving yourself time spent grinding. And time is by far the most valuable currency you have in your life. Each day you have less of it at your disposal.
And unfortunately, amount of money spent is relative, not absolute value.
Shouldn't the advice be the opposite? Best advice to newbies is actually to spend some money, either to buy adventures or a few dozen packs. It doesn't have to be an obscene amount, but it's just too hard to get going without some seed investment. The game seems consciously designed to punish people who don't invest.
When I started last year I just broke down and bought Naxxramas because I could not be competitive without Sludge Belcher and co. I was a lot happier when I did.
The problem with Free to Play -- is that you achieve access to 50 times more ingame content from going to work an extra day, for 8 hours, than playing for 8 hours;
You'll have to play the game for 8 hours 50 days extra to achieve the same as an extra day at work would give you.
...
Notice I said this is the problem with Free to Play.
The fact that the devs/publishers rather want you to go to work and then pay them, rather than playing the game to unlock the content, is the shady part.
Especially because there is no spending cap:
Like; An ethical Free to Play game would limit your spending to 100$, and give you unlimited free access to all content at that point, possibly still allowing the purchase of additional cosmetics purely to offer a way to further support the game.