In other words, it's a high chance that Azure Drake will be nerfed or rotated out with the next expansion, but I assume there will be surprising nerfs / rotations, too.
If they rotate gadgetzan auctioneer to wild, it would kill miracle rogue. That would be a very bold move imo.
I think that would also be exactly WHY they would do it. If their concern is a stale meta, where every so often you get the same basic Miracle Rogue deck that pops up again, with minor differences, then moving Auctioneer to wild, so that Miracle Rogue decks move to Wild only, would be a very obvious choice.
I commented on it in the news post too, I think Miracle Rogue is exactly what they have in mind when they talk about a stale meta. It's been around since early Classic and as long as Auctioneer remains it is going to pop up every so often.
To some that is "stale meta" to others it's bringing back a beloved and strong deck with roots in the history of the game. Both sides have a point and whatever they decide to do one of the 2 sides is going to be unhappy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
I feel Leeroy won't be changed. He may have been given advantage by certain aggro decks but he's just a finisher once someone is within range, not really a card that will get someone there unless you have a headshot crazy hand. Wreckless rocketeer is so close, there's a 1 mana difference and 1 damage while Leeroy is offset by spawning your opponent enough drakes to kill him the next turn, so he's literally a one turn closer with a potential downside.
I'm not sure whether auctioneer will come out either, 4 health is easily taken out and being a 6 drop, most rogue decks will be hard pressed to budget it with the hit to coin generation of tomb pillager cycling out. When that happens it will basically mean you'll need stronger board presence for a 4 drop and you'll need more mana to make use of him on turn 6 (more pragmatically, you won't have use until the next turn, and then what is the use?)
Some cards I agree with, others not so much. An easy way to nerf auctioneer is simply by not adding a desirable coin generator in place of tomb pillager, as the value is based on being able to drop auctioneer and use him on the same turn. The unfortunate downside is this will kill maly for all but druid decks with the loss of emperor. Turn 10 is a long way to survive until.
Am I the only one who thinks Nozdormu should be removed from standard? I don't like the existence of time-based cards, although it does kill ropers....
I honestly don't understand the logic of rotating out cards because they are good enough to see play. *See basically every card that people are reccomending we rotate out*
What is even the point of keeping evergreen if we don't want to any of the cards to see play? And let's say we do rotate out all the most popular cards right. In a year, let's pretend everyone plays Gruul now instead of ragnaros for whatever reason. Do we remove gruul then too? We don't want want any classi.cards seeing play after all. So I guess the consensus in this community is yes. Nevermind the fact that Blizzard has failed us creatively enough for us to continue playing Gruul. We just remove cards so Blizzard can sell us new ones.
People complain about Edwin, but look at the other rogue legendaries. Even without Edwin, people don't want to run Xaril or shaku. Take away auctioneer, you take away rogue. I notice that these lists aren't targeting the most powerful decks on ladder. These lists are targeting Rogue disproportionately, and blizzard has failed rogue. I mean, you can't print cards like shadow rager and wonder why we aren't playing it. Print good cards instead of forcing your new cards on us.
That would require balancing though and Blizzard, you straight up can not balance this game. Removing cards, creates space for other classic cards to be dominate, and we will be back at square one until I only the most unplayable cards of classic remain. Which begs the question, why make classic evergreen if it isn't actually evergreen?
Rotating cards out makes room for new archetypes. Who cares if new and actually good Rogue cards are released if Miracle Rogue is strictly better? Who cares about Menagerie Warden (an actually good card) when Maly Druid is strictly better? Why would you run an 8-drop that wasn't Ragnaros?
An aside, Shaku is seeing play in some Miracle Rogue lists.
Who plays shaku? And why would you? The whole burgle + undercity and every rogue "card steal" is quaint but hardly an archetype. It's lazy design that says "your new archetype is to play someone else's" because spending mana on gimmicks to obtain their cards somehow affords you to play those cards more mana efficiently? The raw meat on huckster for his cost is hardly efficient value, same with Shaku. Even if you say get the perfect removal when you need it from the mechanic, it's rng and you're still additively spending the mana on shaku / burgle / huckster and then the mana on the spell itself.
I honestly don't understand the logic of rotating out cards because they are good enough to see play. *See basically every card that people are reccomending we rotate out*
What is even the point of keeping evergreen if we don't want to any of the cards to see play? And let's say we do rotate out all the most popular cards right. In a year, let's pretend everyone plays Gruul now instead of ragnaros for whatever reason. Do we remove gruul then too? We don't want want any classi.cards seeing play after all. So I guess the consensus in this community is yes. Nevermind the fact that Blizzard has failed us creatively enough for us to continue playing Gruul. We just remove cards so Blizzard can sell us new ones.
People complain about Edwin, but look at the other rogue legendaries. Even without Edwin, people don't want to run Xaril or shaku. Take away auctioneer, you take away rogue. I notice that these lists aren't targeting the most powerful decks on ladder. These lists are targeting Rogue disproportionately, and blizzard has failed rogue. I mean, you can't print cards like shadow rager and wonder why we aren't playing it. Print good cards instead of forcing your new cards on us.
That would require balancing though and Blizzard, you straight up can not balance this game. Removing cards, creates space for other classic cards to be dominate, and we will be back at square one until I only the most unplayable cards of classic remain. Which begs the question, why make classic evergreen if it isn't actually evergreen?
Rotating cards out makes room for new archetypes. Who cares if new and actually good Rogue cards are released if Miracle Rogue is strictly better? Who cares about Menagerie Warden (an actually good card) when Maly Druid is strictly better? Why would you run an 8-drop that wasn't Ragnaros?
An aside, Shaku is seeing play in some Miracle Rogue lists.
Who plays shaku? And why would you? The whole burgle + undercity and every rogue "card steal" is quaint but hardly an archetype. It's lazy design that says "your new archetype is to play someone else's" because spending mana on gimmicks to obtain their cards somehow affords you to play those cards more mana efficiently? The raw meat on huckster for his cost is hardly efficient value, same with Shaku. Even if you say get the perfect removal when you need it from the mechanic, it's rng and you're still additively spending the mana on shaku / burgle / huckster and then the mana on the spell itself.
Lifecoach, in Miracle Rogue. And because it's a soft taunt and guarantees you get a card, and gives you a turn 3 option besides SI:7.
I honestly don't understand the logic of rotating out cards because they are good enough to see play. *See basically every card that people are reccomending we rotate out*
What is even the point of keeping evergreen if we don't want to any of the cards to see play? And let's say we do rotate out all the most popular cards right. In a year, let's pretend everyone plays Gruul now instead of ragnaros for whatever reason. Do we remove gruul then too? We don't want want any classi.cards seeing play after all. So I guess the consensus in this community is yes. Nevermind the fact that Blizzard has failed us creatively enough for us to continue playing Gruul. We just remove cards so Blizzard can sell us new ones.
People complain about Edwin, but look at the other rogue legendaries. Even without Edwin, people don't want to run Xaril or shaku. Take away auctioneer, you take away rogue. I notice that these lists aren't targeting the most powerful decks on ladder. These lists are targeting Rogue disproportionately, and blizzard has failed rogue. I mean, you can't print cards like shadow rager and wonder why we aren't playing it. Print good cards instead of forcing your new cards on us.
That would require balancing though and Blizzard, you straight up can not balance this game. Removing cards, creates space for other classic cards to be dominate, and we will be back at square one until I only the most unplayable cards of classic remain. Which begs the question, why make classic evergreen if it isn't actually evergreen?
Rotating cards out makes room for new archetypes. Who cares if new and actually good Rogue cards are released if Miracle Rogue is strictly better? Who cares about Menagerie Warden (an actually good card) when Maly Druid is strictly better? Why would you run an 8-drop that wasn't Ragnaros?
An aside, Shaku is seeing play in some Miracle Rogue lists.
Who plays shaku? And why would you? The whole burgle + undercity and every rogue "card steal" is quaint but hardly an archetype. It's lazy design that says "your new archetype is to play someone else's" because spending mana on gimmicks to obtain their cards somehow affords you to play those cards more mana efficiently? The raw meat on huckster for his cost is hardly efficient value, same with Shaku. Even if you say get the perfect removal when you need it from the mechanic, it's rng and you're still additively spending the mana on shaku / burgle / huckster and then the mana on the spell itself.
Lifecoach, in Miracle Rogue. And because it's a soft taunt and guarantees you get a card, and gives you a turn 3 option besides SI:7.
Someone who plays a couple gimmicky cards is hardly the same as advocating them as an archetype. The complaints about EVC is akin to complaining about the combo system which enabled him to be efficient. At that rate you may as well complain about overload synergies, armor generation, mage freezes, priest heals, etc. These are all core identities to their respective classes.
In mtg, nobody complained of blue counterspells, red direct damage or white heals. It is the identity of the deck, such other synergies were derived from, collectively those synergies define the meta.
A lot of rogue right now is sadly predicated on a handful of cards about to cycle out: tomb pillager, patches and swashburglar as a 1 drop that activates patches (if no buccaneer). That's 6 key cards of the total 30 which make miracle viable right now.
Tomb pillager is a big body 4 drop that offers a coin if he's removed, which is give value for rogue, who has no other viable 4 drop. The coin can be stowed for auctioneer or used for EVC. Dropping tomb pillager gives you a vulnerable mid game and makes combos harder to budget. Add in the loss of most of rogue's early game and where's the value in auctioneer? At best rogue can pull 4/4's out from turn 5-6. Is that hard for any class to deal with?
The complaints of miracle synergy are absurd, as it's only held together by 3 cards which are set to cycle out.
I'll be honest, I don't think we'll see any cards moved to Wild since things like Auctioneer are getting hit pretty hard just by the rotation; however, I do think there are 5 candidates right now that are just too common for their own good.
- Auctioneer
- Azure Drake
- Sylvanas
- Ragnaros
- Blood Mage Thalnos
I can't actually pinpoint a lot of classic cards for classes that are really problematic in my opinion (I know someone mentioned Mana Wyrm, but I'm not convinced it's bad to have a solid card for non-Control Mages and it's pretty niche right now), and I'm inclined to believe that's simply because the strong options for the classes in Classic are good to have because they lead to solid class definition. What has me more concerned is how ubiquitous the listed neutrals are, and generally how stale that's made a lot of deck builds; I'm certainly not going to complain if they remain in the game, but I wouldn't be surprised if these were high on the list of offenders.
For the people saying they should rotate out the entirety of Classic, I somewhat agree. The problem with that is how do you fill the gap it creates (it is the largest collectable set after all) without punishing new or f2p players? I agree with Team 5 the second issue is one that certainly needs to be kept in mind, because that's a lot of players to be giving the boot to.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
rework the basic set to give each class a set of actual useful tools that can serve to underpin a variety of decks, and keeping the game fresh would be a lot more practicable than in the current state.
Yeah, I would say Miracle Rogue is going to be hit hard by this potential removal.
I would advocate not rotating out Edwinn though. He's not as strong without Prep,auctioneer, rogues other cheap spells(The only reason it works to begin with) . Instead Preparation and Auctioneer are the two most likely to be rotated out. They are strong by themselves.
Other big contenders are likely Sylvanas, Doomsayer, possibly Leeroy due to 'design space' issues, I could see them seriously considering the removal of some 'aggro' staples as well. Will have to wait and see though. They got the data. They know what's up and what isn't. They would likely not rotate anything until the next expansion though, so we may be waiting a while on this one.
I think the cards that are most likely to be rotated out are cards with no real feasible way to nerf them without changing them into a completely different card. The cards that can be adjusted will be nerfed.
azure drake's effects cannot been changed,so it will become a 2/4 or a 4/2 or it'll just cost 6 mana.
Sylvanas:Really hard to nerf.IMO it will become a 7 5/5 and thats all.
Doomsayer:0/6.it wont be useless,but not a must-have epic.
Flamestrike:8 mana.will be op after,too.
Equality:so strong,even with Pyromancer.3 mana.not a huge nerf,it was only used.
Shield Slam:3 mana.control wont suffer from this,and no other Warrior deck play this.
Why i think rotate is a bad idea:
-classes cant use their identities.so mage cant lose something like Fireball,Warrior cant lose Shield Block etc.
-iconic characters must stay in the game.you cant rotate ragnaros,or sylvanas because they are part of the WoW game and story.But you cant rotate a bad card like Hogger or Nat Pagle too.
@Wishmaster333; I highly doubt we'd see Prep rotated out since it's just such a defining card for Rogue (similar to Innervate or Wild Growth for Druid), and I honestly doubt class Legendaries are getting touched any time soon. I mean it's certainly possible if they feel like it's contributing to the staleness of Rogue, but I feel like they're probably not worried about classes having a few evergreen signature cards; Auctioneer and Leeroy on the other hand could probably see rotation simply because they're enabling archetypes on their own across multiple classes and that doesn't feel healthy for an evergreen set.
If the argument for Rag is "He's good in this meta if you want to run an 8-Drop", for Auctioneer is "He's good if your deck has a combo to dig for and you run cheap spells", and for Leeroy is "You need a burst finisher but your class doesn't have any" I think there's an argument to be made those cards are keeping Standard from feeling as fresh as it should.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
You guys with the 15-20 card lists are nuts. I'd be surprised if they rotated or nerfed the Shadow Words, FWA, or Fireball. Those are core to the identify of the classes. You need to look for cards that either are a linchpin of a long-in the-tooth archetype (Ice Block, Gadgetzan Auctioneer, etc), are overplayed neutrals (Azure Drake), or limit Team 5's ability to print new cards.
After all, you don't want to gut the classes so they have no identity. You just don't want them playing the exact same archetypes over and over. Mage without burst, Druid without ramp, Warrior without weapons and armor, etc. would make for a very boring playing experience.
I would also guess that the basic cards are totally off-limits to avoid gimping the new player experience.
Well, 1 mana cost, reduce the cost of the next spell by 4 mana.
It still works the same, but now you can't drop Auctioneer at 6 mana without having both prep and the coin.
I'd say that nerfs like this are okay, the deck still functions mostly the same but it's now harder to achieve, and it makes you want to use new cards like Counterfeit Coin.
----
Personally I don't like the idea of rotating out cards from Classic. It's just too unnerving and with that precedent nobody will ever believe any of their cards are 'safe'. Also with time the classic set will get smaller and smaller and that is a huge problem, especially when it comes to packs. Rotated out a bunch of class epics? Well now the Epic pool for packs is skewed.
But some cards really annoy me regardless of them being Classic or not. Ice Block is one of them, Brann Bronzebeard is another.
I do believe Classic is good to give an idea of what a class can and should be able to do. What they need (and I think that's their aim) to fix is having Classic decks that are just as good or better than non-classic decks. I don't think they mind you using Doomsayer on your Jade control shaman deck as you're playing a deck within the new archetype.
Have you ever thought about these last 2 cards? There is no point into making 2 mana removals in the game with Frost Bolt in it. or 4 Mana removal for Mage with Fireball. What they did very smartly was to make a 3 mana that act as both. There is also synergy between spells. If Ice Lance was NOT in the game, don't you think all those new Frozen enemy cards they've been pushing lately couldn't have been a bit more on curve? Together they could be bonkers and they have to avoid that.
I don't think those cards should be rotated out, but I do feel they limit design space and in the long run
I'll give a better example on cards that need to be reworked or removed:
Hunter arrow cards. All the spells form hunter suck ass, yet they take too much design space because if you make good control options for them then suddenly they have the best spells in the game. You're kinda forced to make better spells or it will see no use, make garbage spells or remake the same spells that are already there. And then you run the risk of added redundancy making hunter broken.
Since those spells suck and take so much design space it would be better if they weren't there, so they could make actual spells that could be used. Give card draw to hunter or decent removal instead of just relying on (soon to be rotated) Quick Shot.
---
Idk, I do believe that changing the core set might help the game. But I fear though they might just change thing without thinking of the repercussions.
Last standard rotation sucked so much because they removed all mid range and control cards and left just the standard aggro cards out there without adding more tools to deal with this bullshit.
If they rotate or nerf doomsayer without giving more anti-aggro tools in the same world that patches exist, then this game is done. Pirate Warrior has NO CARD WHATSOEVER that is rotating out. I'm okay with them nerfing stuff, but please, understand what will happen to the metagame and GIVE US A CARD IN THE EXPANSION THAT CAN DEAL WITH IT.
My biggest fear of all is this, they getting so caught up in trying to change the meta that they forget completely about BALANCING it.
If they rotate gadgetzan auctioneer to wild, it would kill miracle rogue. That would be a very bold move imo.
Should you craft/disenchant (Golden) Sylvanas or Ragnaros?
Find out in the: ULTIMATE dust guide for Hall of Fame cards
none of them are rotating out because blizz will regret the can of worms they open when everyone stops playing their s**** game
When WOTOG came out, there were a lot of suprising nerfs. People were predicting cards like Knife Juggler, Leper Gnome and Force of Nature to be nerfed, but who would've thought about Molten Giant?
In other words, it's a high chance that Azure Drake will be nerfed or rotated out with the next expansion, but I assume there will be surprising nerfs / rotations, too.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
I feel Leeroy won't be changed. He may have been given advantage by certain aggro decks but he's just a finisher once someone is within range, not really a card that will get someone there unless you have a headshot crazy hand. Wreckless rocketeer is so close, there's a 1 mana difference and 1 damage while Leeroy is offset by spawning your opponent enough drakes to kill him the next turn, so he's literally a one turn closer with a potential downside.
I'm not sure whether auctioneer will come out either, 4 health is easily taken out and being a 6 drop, most rogue decks will be hard pressed to budget it with the hit to coin generation of tomb pillager cycling out. When that happens it will basically mean you'll need stronger board presence for a 4 drop and you'll need more mana to make use of him on turn 6 (more pragmatically, you won't have use until the next turn, and then what is the use?)
Some cards I agree with, others not so much. An easy way to nerf auctioneer is simply by not adding a desirable coin generator in place of tomb pillager, as the value is based on being able to drop auctioneer and use him on the same turn. The unfortunate downside is this will kill maly for all but druid decks with the loss of emperor. Turn 10 is a long way to survive until.
Am I the only one who thinks Nozdormu should be removed from standard? I don't like the existence of time-based cards, although it does kill ropers....
Wished to be pink.
Then did.
Then fired myself.
Then did again.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Whoah I'm not advocating Shaku as an archetype. You asked who plays the card, I answered.
I for one would be thrilled to see a Rogue archetype that was tier 1 or 2 viable, that wasn't Miracle.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
I'll be honest, I don't think we'll see any cards moved to Wild since things like Auctioneer are getting hit pretty hard just by the rotation; however, I do think there are 5 candidates right now that are just too common for their own good.
- Auctioneer
- Azure Drake
- Sylvanas
- Ragnaros
- Blood Mage Thalnos
I can't actually pinpoint a lot of classic cards for classes that are really problematic in my opinion (I know someone mentioned Mana Wyrm, but I'm not convinced it's bad to have a solid card for non-Control Mages and it's pretty niche right now), and I'm inclined to believe that's simply because the strong options for the classes in Classic are good to have because they lead to solid class definition. What has me more concerned is how ubiquitous the listed neutrals are, and generally how stale that's made a lot of deck builds; I'm certainly not going to complain if they remain in the game, but I wouldn't be surprised if these were high on the list of offenders.
For the people saying they should rotate out the entirety of Classic, I somewhat agree. The problem with that is how do you fill the gap it creates (it is the largest collectable set after all) without punishing new or f2p players? I agree with Team 5 the second issue is one that certainly needs to be kept in mind, because that's a lot of players to be giving the boot to.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
Before cherry picking cards to throw out of standard, they should balance the basic set by adding cards to it.
the imbalance of the basic set (Totemic Might and Sacrificial Pact vs Fiery War Axe and Fireball) are poisoned roots for any hope of balance in a rotational environment.
rework the basic set to give each class a set of actual useful tools that can serve to underpin a variety of decks, and keeping the game fresh would be a lot more practicable than in the current state.
Yeah, I would say Miracle Rogue is going to be hit hard by this potential removal.
I would advocate not rotating out Edwinn though. He's not as strong without Prep,auctioneer, rogues other cheap spells(The only reason it works to begin with) . Instead Preparation and Auctioneer are the two most likely to be rotated out. They are strong by themselves.
Other big contenders are likely Sylvanas, Doomsayer, possibly Leeroy due to 'design space' issues, I could see them seriously considering the removal of some 'aggro' staples as well. Will have to wait and see though. They got the data. They know what's up and what isn't. They would likely not rotate anything until the next expansion though, so we may be waiting a while on this one.
I think the cards that are most likely to be rotated out are cards with no real feasible way to nerf them without changing them into a completely different card. The cards that can be adjusted will be nerfed.
Don't rotate blizzard.nerf only.
azure drake's effects cannot been changed,so it will become a 2/4 or a 4/2 or it'll just cost 6 mana.
Sylvanas:Really hard to nerf.IMO it will become a 7 5/5 and thats all.
Doomsayer:0/6.it wont be useless,but not a must-have epic.
Flamestrike:8 mana.will be op after,too.
Equality:so strong,even with Pyromancer.3 mana.not a huge nerf,it was only used.
Shield Slam:3 mana.control wont suffer from this,and no other Warrior deck play this.
Why i think rotate is a bad idea:
-classes cant use their identities.so mage cant lose something like Fireball,Warrior cant lose Shield Block etc.
-iconic characters must stay in the game.you cant rotate ragnaros,or sylvanas because they are part of the WoW game and story.But you cant rotate a bad card like Hogger or Nat Pagle too.
sorry for my english it isnt my native language.
@Wishmaster333; I highly doubt we'd see Prep rotated out since it's just such a defining card for Rogue (similar to Innervate or Wild Growth for Druid), and I honestly doubt class Legendaries are getting touched any time soon. I mean it's certainly possible if they feel like it's contributing to the staleness of Rogue, but I feel like they're probably not worried about classes having a few evergreen signature cards; Auctioneer and Leeroy on the other hand could probably see rotation simply because they're enabling archetypes on their own across multiple classes and that doesn't feel healthy for an evergreen set.
If the argument for Rag is "He's good in this meta if you want to run an 8-Drop", for Auctioneer is "He's good if your deck has a combo to dig for and you run cheap spells", and for Leeroy is "You need a burst finisher but your class doesn't have any" I think there's an argument to be made those cards are keeping Standard from feeling as fresh as it should.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
You guys with the 15-20 card lists are nuts. I'd be surprised if they rotated or nerfed the Shadow Words, FWA, or Fireball. Those are core to the identify of the classes. You need to look for cards that either are a linchpin of a long-in the-tooth archetype (Ice Block, Gadgetzan Auctioneer, etc), are overplayed neutrals (Azure Drake), or limit Team 5's ability to print new cards.
After all, you don't want to gut the classes so they have no identity. You just don't want them playing the exact same archetypes over and over. Mage without burst, Druid without ramp, Warrior without weapons and armor, etc. would make for a very boring playing experience.
I would also guess that the basic cards are totally off-limits to avoid gimping the new player experience.
What's wrong with nerfing Preparation?
You really think they cant do it?
Well, 1 mana cost, reduce the cost of the next spell by 4 mana.
It still works the same, but now you can't drop Auctioneer at 6 mana without having both prep and the coin.
I'd say that nerfs like this are okay, the deck still functions mostly the same but it's now harder to achieve, and it makes you want to use new cards like Counterfeit Coin.
----
Personally I don't like the idea of rotating out cards from Classic. It's just too unnerving and with that precedent nobody will ever believe any of their cards are 'safe'. Also with time the classic set will get smaller and smaller and that is a huge problem, especially when it comes to packs. Rotated out a bunch of class epics? Well now the Epic pool for packs is skewed.
But some cards really annoy me regardless of them being Classic or not. Ice Block is one of them, Brann Bronzebeard is another.
I do believe Classic is good to give an idea of what a class can and should be able to do. What they need (and I think that's their aim) to fix is having Classic decks that are just as good or better than non-classic decks. I don't think they mind you using Doomsayer on your Jade control shaman deck as you're playing a deck within the new archetype.
The biggest issue is hiding behind Ice Block and Frost Novas with Doomsayers and then just nuking someone with 2xFrostbolt and 2x Ice Lance.
Have you ever thought about these last 2 cards? There is no point into making 2 mana removals in the game with Frost Bolt in it. or 4 Mana removal for Mage with Fireball. What they did very smartly was to make a 3 mana that act as both. There is also synergy between spells. If Ice Lance was NOT in the game, don't you think all those new Frozen enemy cards they've been pushing lately couldn't have been a bit more on curve? Together they could be bonkers and they have to avoid that.
I don't think those cards should be rotated out, but I do feel they limit design space and in the long run
I'll give a better example on cards that need to be reworked or removed:
Hunter arrow cards. All the spells form hunter suck ass, yet they take too much design space because if you make good control options for them then suddenly they have the best spells in the game. You're kinda forced to make better spells or it will see no use, make garbage spells or remake the same spells that are already there. And then you run the risk of added redundancy making hunter broken.
Since those spells suck and take so much design space it would be better if they weren't there, so they could make actual spells that could be used. Give card draw to hunter or decent removal instead of just relying on (soon to be rotated) Quick Shot.
---
Idk, I do believe that changing the core set might help the game. But I fear though they might just change thing without thinking of the repercussions.
Last standard rotation sucked so much because they removed all mid range and control cards and left just the standard aggro cards out there without adding more tools to deal with this bullshit.
If they rotate or nerf doomsayer without giving more anti-aggro tools in the same world that patches exist, then this game is done. Pirate Warrior has NO CARD WHATSOEVER that is rotating out. I'm okay with them nerfing stuff, but please, understand what will happen to the metagame and GIVE US A CARD IN THE EXPANSION THAT CAN DEAL WITH IT.
My biggest fear of all is this, they getting so caught up in trying to change the meta that they forget completely about BALANCING it.