Haven't seen any posts on this here, so here we go:
The goal with Standard is to keep the meta fresh for each yearly rotation. There are some benefits to keeping Basic and Classic cards in Standard: Returning players have an entry-point to the new format, and new players experience classics like "Hogger" and "Arcane Missiles" that are iconic and great introductions to the game. People take breaks from Hearthstone, and being able to jump right back in with a few cards you already own and understand makes that experience a lot better.
That upside has a real downside in working directly against the big goal for Standard. It needs to feel different each year, and if Basic and Classic cards are still appearing in large densities year after year, we will not be achieving our goals for Standard.
We knew we weren't going to get there when the Year of the Kraken began, so we nerfed 12 basic/classic cards, to put more of the weight of the meta into the rotating sets. We always knew we'd have to watch the meta to see if any future changes would be needed when we got ready for the next year of Standard. If things are looking like they are going to be too same-y for that next year, we could see more nerfs, or we might rotate some additional classic cards to Wild, like we did with Old Murk Eye. No matter what, we're committed to making Standard fresh and exciting each new year.
As someone who plays Wild, I *really* hope they go for rotation, rather than nerfing. Blade Flurry got mangled due to a nerf, and there are other Nerfs that wouldn't have really needed to happen (Rockbiter Weapon, Yogg-Sauron) if they had just rotated it out.
He goes on to say:
Given the goal of Standard is to keep the game fresh each year, it's important to keep a lot of the power of the cards in the expansions, and not in the basic and classic sets. It's not clear what that balance of power should look like (is it ~10 cards from the basic and classic sets on average?), but we're currently skewed so high towards basic and classic cards in decks, that we are at high risk for 'samey-ness' as the years change in Standard. Buffing Basic/Classic cards *increases* that risk. If the goal is to get more cool cards into the meta, just releasing awesome new cards in expansions should make an impact there, and still keep Standard fresh.
And I have to say I agree with him; look at Pirate Warrior, 8 cards out of 30 are from non-Classic sets. The power is there, ever present in Standard, just so long as it gets one or two pirates and another aggressive tool, it'll really limit design space.
Just thought I'd open a discussion on this. It's mostly a standard issue, but the potential nerfing of classic cards really affects us Wild players as well. The main take away though is that the Classic Set isn't as safe as it's supposed to be right now though.
That looks promising. I was hoping they'd spice it up a bit instead of just going with the pre-determined rotation. Also hope they're thinking about keeping some non-classic cards in standard I'd be especially sad to see the LoE cards go.
I think maybe Blizzard could announce a list of cards in the classic set that can be included in standard decks every year. I mean not all classic cards are allowed maybe 80% of them. In this way some of the decks like freeze mage or miracle rogue could be 'rotated out', encouraging new strategies.
I am realy torn on this notion. I agree that many of the classic cards are very dominant in the meta but at the same time i already felt really bad when they moved older expansions to wild, because i crafted some golden cards from this set. After they announced the change i stopped crafting golden cards from expansions and only did craft some from the basic set. To me, moving cards from classic to wild would feel like taking something away that i paid for again and on the long term that is not acceptable to me.
Many will say that compared to balancing and gameplay experience this is a minor point but I believe that many others will rethink how much money they want to spent on cards that have a limited time you can use the 100%
The blade flurry nerf was beyond stupid. If it would not hit face the cost of the card wouldnt even have needed change at all. I would have moved yogg sauron to wild as well because as it is nobody is really happy and the card just felt like it belonged into wild.
A card like loatheb could have easily been rotated in again in exchange.
I am realy torn on this notion. I agree that many of the classic cards are very dominant in the meta but at the same time i already felt really bad when they moved older expansions to wild, because i crafted some golden cards from this set. After they announced the change i stopped crafting golden cards from expansions and only did craft some from the basic set. To me, moving cards from classic to wild would feel like taking something away that i paid for again and on the long term that is not acceptable to me.
Many will say that compared to balancing and gameplay experience this is a minor point but I believe that many others will rethink how much money they want to spent on cards that have a limited time you can use the 100%
Agree with this, Expansions/Adventures i understand, but taking out Classic ? big no no.
The other thing is. Ive learned my lesons over the past years. I wait and see if something happens. Before that its talk. Intresting but its talk. They need to actually do those things they say.Nothing more and nothing less.
Wait, hold on. What has the HS team actually said they'll do that they haven't done? When they say "We'll do that" they've done it.
The trick is o see what they are SAYING and not jump on the hype train. For example, they've constantly said that they are interested in a tournament mode but never flat out said "it's coming."
In that vein though, they said they 'might' rotate cards or else they'll do more nerfs. Which means BOTH are on the table. The point of the post isn't to guarantee anything but to show what options they are considering and what might 'trigger' those options.
Thus the proper response is "Great. I hope you do that."
Beats the pants off of...sayyy... "you'll be able to see other players, but it's rare." in a game with no code for any possible player to player interaction.
I think maybe Blizzard could announce a list of cards in the classic set that can be included in standard decks every year. I mean not all classic cards are allowed maybe 80% of them. In this way some of the decks like freeze mage or miracle rogue could be 'rotated out', encouraging new strategies.
That's what they've effectively said. They aren't going to give a list because they don't have that list. This is still in "maybe we should do this" mode. We'r estill months away from them having a firm clue what WILL happen yet.
Though yes, Freeze mage and, sadly, mmiracle will probably be heavily targetted.
So what they say is this:We are so bad at balancing so to keep things fresh we remove standard cards so there are less everlasting mistakes.
Honestly how can you receive this as good news?They admit that they suck so much that they can even keep the standard set balanced....
Not necessarily; the Classic/Basic sets were the first made, so it's not too far fetched to admit that at the time they made it they didn't know where they wanted the Power Curve (much like M:tG and frikkin Ancestral Recall).
Edit: And it's not like they were making the Classic Set with the idea of rotation when the game first was being designed anyway.
I'd rather see cards rotated out than see them getting the horrible treatment they gave Buzzard, Warsong Commander and Blade Flurry...
That said i think they should add new cards to the classic set whenever they rotate some out - they would probably be able to change the meta in big ways just by rotating 2 or 3 cards out of classic and adding in 2 or 3 new ones, this would also be good in the ''middleway'' between two expansions. :)
(oh, and when I say '' add in new cards'' i don't mean cards from previous expansions, i mean completely new cards - this would also mean that if they had a REALLY good idea for a card but it didn't fit into the up-coming expansion they would be able too add it anyway)
I want them to make non-classic cards classic, but they make the opposite of what we want. THANKS BLIZZARD.
Fixed that for you.
We don't need to have an entire rotation system to push old decks out and avoid 'forever cards' only to add in more 'forever cards'. Reno and Elise are great. They aren't "play this for the next 10 years" great. That's what Wild is for, to play the same decks forever. No deck should survive +2 years in Standard.
I think it is important to keep balance even in Wild. Wild should be the place for crazy synergy at proper mana levels. Anything crazier or more unbalanced than that, makes the mode frustrating.
They should simply go easier with nerfs. Target what is wrong, without ruining cards as they did so far (granted, some of them deserved it).
AND target cards that could use some nerf, instead of leaving them live in Wild as they are, forever: Dr. Boom is literally a wandering bomb there (without even counting synergies). Same for Avenge. Those cards need nerf even in Wild.
As for the rotating out of Classic Cards, I strongly disagree. Unless they want to reinforce Wild with rebel players.
AND target cards that could use some nerf, instead of leaving them live in Wild as they are, forever: Dr. Boom is literally a wandering bomb there (without even counting synergies). Same for Avenge. Those cards need nerf even in Wild.
Strongly disagree; the point of Wild should be that cards retain their abilities/strength unless something drastically (really, really drastically) starts dominating.
Good news, I can't wait until they get rid of Alexstrasza!
That said, if they need to nerf basic cards just to keep the game fresh then the problem comes from them because that means new expansions aren't interesting enough to be considered. Shitty basic cards is part of the reason why new player experience sucks btw.
I want them to make non-classic cards classic, but they make the opposite of what we want. THANKS BLIZZARD.
Fixed that for you.
We don't need to have an entire rotation system to push old decks out and avoid 'forever cards' only to add in more 'forever cards'. Reno and Elise are great. They aren't "play this for the next 10 years" great. That's what Wild is for, to play the same decks forever. No deck should survive +2 years in Standard.
Cards like Kazakus and Inkmaster Solia will see no play after the rotation. They will be only played in Wild.
Haven't seen any posts on this here, so here we go:
As someone who plays Wild, I *really* hope they go for rotation, rather than nerfing. Blade Flurry got mangled due to a nerf, and there are other Nerfs that wouldn't have really needed to happen (Rockbiter Weapon, Yogg-Sauron) if they had just rotated it out.
He goes on to say:
And I have to say I agree with him; look at Pirate Warrior, 8 cards out of 30 are from non-Classic sets. The power is there, ever present in Standard, just so long as it gets one or two pirates and another aggressive tool, it'll really limit design space.
Just thought I'd open a discussion on this. It's mostly a standard issue, but the potential nerfing of classic cards really affects us Wild players as well. The main take away though is that the Classic Set isn't as safe as it's supposed to be right now though.
Source: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20752669377?page=1
It will take another 3 years to have a look on that cuz 9 extra deck slots
Just remember the good times!
That looks promising. I was hoping they'd spice it up a bit instead of just going with the pre-determined rotation. Also hope they're thinking about keeping some non-classic cards in standard I'd be especially sad to see the LoE cards go.
This move so so so bad for blizzard. 0% trust for the devs now.
Wimmy wam wam wazzle!
I think maybe Blizzard could announce a list of cards in the classic set that can be included in standard decks every year. I mean not all classic cards are allowed maybe 80% of them. In this way some of the decks like freeze mage or miracle rogue could be 'rotated out', encouraging new strategies.
I am realy torn on this notion. I agree that many of the classic cards are very dominant in the meta but at the same time i already felt really bad when they moved older expansions to wild, because i crafted some golden cards from this set. After they announced the change i stopped crafting golden cards from expansions and only did craft some from the basic set. To me, moving cards from classic to wild would feel like taking something away that i paid for again and on the long term that is not acceptable to me.
Many will say that compared to balancing and gameplay experience this is a minor point but I believe that many others will rethink how much money they want to spent on cards that have a limited time you can use the 100%
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#JeSuisFieryWarAxe!
The blade flurry nerf was beyond stupid. If it would not hit face the cost of the card wouldnt even have needed change at all. I would have moved yogg sauron to wild as well because as it is nobody is really happy and the card just felt like it belonged into wild.
A card like loatheb could have easily been rotated in again in exchange.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
#JeSuisFieryWarAxe!
So what they say is this:We are so bad at balancing so to keep things fresh we remove standard cards so there are less everlasting mistakes.
Honestly how can you receive this as good news?They admit that they suck so much that they can't even keep the standard set balanced....
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I'd rather see cards rotated out than see them getting the horrible treatment they gave Buzzard, Warsong Commander and Blade Flurry...
That said i think they should add new cards to the classic set whenever they rotate some out - they would probably be able to change the meta in big ways just by rotating 2 or 3 cards out of classic and adding in 2 or 3 new ones, this would also be good in the ''middleway'' between two expansions. :)
(oh, and when I say '' add in new cards'' i don't mean cards from previous expansions, i mean completely new cards - this would also mean that if they had a REALLY good idea for a card but it didn't fit into the up-coming expansion they would be able too add it anyway)
We want them to make non-classic cards classic, but they make the opposite of what we want. THANKS BLIZZARD.
Playing since 1 June 2014.
Review on Every Card: http://goo.gl/RTz806
Cards That Will Be Missed in Standart Next Year: http://goo.gl/adNMnn
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I think it is important to keep balance even in Wild.
Wild should be the place for crazy synergy at proper mana levels. Anything crazier or more unbalanced than that, makes the mode frustrating.
They should simply go easier with nerfs. Target what is wrong, without ruining cards as they did so far (granted, some of them deserved it).
AND target cards that could use some nerf, instead of leaving them live in Wild as they are, forever: Dr. Boom is literally a wandering bomb there (without even counting synergies). Same for Avenge. Those cards need nerf even in Wild.
As for the rotating out of Classic Cards, I strongly disagree. Unless they want to reinforce Wild with rebel players.
This isn't news. They said all the same stuff when they introduced Standard so we'll just have to wait and see.
Good news, I can't wait until they get rid of Alexstrasza!
That said, if they need to nerf basic cards just to keep the game fresh then the problem comes from them because that means new expansions aren't interesting enough to be considered. Shitty basic cards is part of the reason why new player experience sucks btw.
Custom cards :
CLASSES : Alchemist (CCC#5 | Phase V) | Chef (CCC#4)
EXPANSIONS : Year of the Scorpion (Year Comp)
Playing since 1 June 2014.
Review on Every Card: http://goo.gl/RTz806
Cards That Will Be Missed in Standart Next Year: http://goo.gl/adNMnn
How about moving cards into the classic set? Looking at you Reno Jackson.
Fuck cubelock