Jade mechanic is operpowered. Here is it why.

#24 Dec 29, 2016 (Gadgetzan)
iandakar
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Quote from Neichus >>

Quote from PiLoKo >>

if anything they are very straightfoward which is kind of sad for deck building.

This is the primary complaint I do agree with on Jade decks. As somebody who loves making his own decks, MSoG has been a bit rough because so many of the decks feel pre-built for us. I'm not saying they aren't out there, but I have struggled with basic ideas. The main mechanics (Jade, Reno, Goons) are strictly class-limited and many of the mechanics encourage "all-in" building. That is you can't "splash" Jade easily, and you certainly can't "splash" Reno into your deck. You can add a little bit of Goons in, but thus far those have been on the weak end.

I'm not so sure that this expansion has messed up deck creation. Reno is extremely far away from a pre-made situation as the only thing it asks for is "Add Reno/Kazakus in" and "no duplicates". Beyond that, it's up to you what you add in, which has, for now, resulted in a very diverse spread of decks as they try to tech and shift to what their opponent is going to throw at them. That's miles away from C'thun or Jade decks where most of the deck is pre-installed.

Goons.. well, the big issue is that no one knows what to do with them in general. Warrior ignored the whole thing and went pirate. Paladin and Hunter just fell on their face.

As for Jade, the only deck that's actually 'pure' is jade druid. Rogue didn't go Jade at all, opting to combine a pirate set up with the miracle setup. Shaman actually DOES splash Jade into their aggro deck with impressive results if not as strong as their old midrange build.

The other 'archetype', pirate, hasn't made a single pure deck. It's instead being splashed into other decks ranging from pure face to slow combo. Bah I've seen a warlock reno build with Patches. Now this can bring up the "overuse" complaint that Dr. Boom had, but given that it's only a few cards it's FAR from a pre-built deck situation.

So really of all of the pre-made potential of this expansion, we only have one viable -pre-built deck in Jade druid. And having ONE pre-made deck is perfectly fine especially if it's not tier 1. People fuss about it ruining control but really, typical control/fatigue wouldn't have had a chance against the pirate decks anyway. It keeps some decks in line without overpowering the rest. That's a good thing.

As far as the competitive side goes, it's pretty good for deck design and diversity. This has been avery good expansion for Spikes.

What we are lacking are those "Hobgoblin" cards, cards that seem out of place but leave the creative folks going "hmmmm". All of the interesting cards fit neatly into an archetype, like hobgoblin for Goons or Kaz for Reno. To put it in Old Gods terms, there's a lot of N'Zoths: card 'packages' that can be slotted into decks with room to tinker, and the occasional "C'thun", the pre-made stuff. There's no Y'Saarj, that obscure card that doesn't seem to fit unless you really think about it.

Which I think makes sense. We were just fuss about how the meta needs a shake up and REALLY tore Blizzard up when they made 'off-beat' cards like Purify. MSG makes sense as a response to all of that. As I said, this is made for Spikes, not Johnnies.

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#26 Dec 29, 2016 (Gadgetzan)
Raddish1234
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Plenty of aggro shaman running jades, but no rogues or druids.

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#27 Dec 29, 2016 (Gadgetzan)
Neichus
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Quote from iandakar >>

What we are lacking are those "Hobgoblin" cards, cards that seem out of place but leave the creative folks going "hmmmm". All of the interesting cards fit neatly into an archetype, like hobgoblin for Goons or Kaz for Reno...As I said, this is made for Spikes, not Johnnies.

You actually just wrote what I wanted to write, but I kind of gave up and went with the short version. I completely agree with you: I think this expansion is overall fantastic for the game. I have really loved watching the proliferation of deck variants that are centered on existing molds. But as somebody who likes to play niche decks that allow you to abuse unusual interactions I've found myself struggling to come up with ideas separate from these. Again, the issue being that Blizzard's pre-packaged options were better from the beginning.

For instance, there is no way at this point to out-value late-game Jade. You just can't. Same with Kazakus. He is brokenly powerful and there is no ambiguity on how to break him. It's not like Grim Patron which took time to figure out; you just put 30 unique cards in your deck and you're set to abuse him. Trying to work on my own midrange variations have been rewarding, but I always feel as though I'm laboring under the shadows of giants and can only hope they don't notice me.

Edit: So AbusingKel, the difference is that while there are always meta decks that are superior to home-brew I never felt like Blizzard themselves provided them for us. That is an element that I think has become more noticeable in MSoG.

Last edited by Neichus on Dec 29, 2016

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#28 Dec 29, 2016 (Gadgetzan)
jferrante831
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My biggest issue with jade decks is shaman with Jade Claws. the card is pretty fucking good, expecially with all shaman's early board control, but the problem is the battlecry effect. there is no reason for that shit to have fucking brann synergy.. they easily could have made it like muster for battle, a 2 mana spell, "equip a 2/2 weapon and summon a jade golem. (overload 1)" problem fucking solved.. I'm sure our shaman overlords will return to completely dominate the meta soon since they have the tools to counter the face/pirate decks and enough sustained pressure to beat pretty much any control deck

Last edited by jferrante831 on Dec 29, 2016

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