Hearthpwn

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Instead of seeing the ladder as a playground where you can play a variety of decks, why not see it for what it is: people playing the most efficient decks they can find with the singular purpose of being better than the opponent they face. Playing whatever deck you want, that's what casual is for. You will find a variety of decks and the feeling of competition is almost completely gone.

However, you seem to believe that playing on a competitive ladder means that you will not face players who are trying to be pragmatic. This belief is dissonant with what ladder rewards, which is efficiency of play. The problem is your perception of the way things are versus reality. You should choose to see ladder as a competitive experience and choose to funnel your energy and your gameplay into being more efficient than your opponents.

"Efficiency of play", "the way things are versus reality", "funnel your energy". Oh God. Capitalist language applied to games. It's all because of the virus of e-sports and the business that surrounds it. You don't play to have fun anymore, you play for efficiency.  

It's not Hearthstone, it's the human race. We take our tiny, innocent pleasures and corrupt them to the extreme.

 

Well, Blizzard is a company, their products are designed to make money and entice consumers, and they exist in a capitalist nation, the USA. Further, this game, like all games, is designed to be won and excelled at. That is, actually, the joy that comes from the play. Competition as play is something inherent in our nature. I'm unsure why you are so surprised that it exists. In fact, I'm unsure what you are communicating in your response other than a lack of comprehension of facts.

 i have this image in my head of OP being on a beach building a sand castle and then someone comes up next to him and builds a bigger more impressive sand castle and OP loses his shit and starts ranting about capitalism and tries to knock down the better sand castle "muh designspace!"

  Funny story, I give you that. Capitalism is the most diabolical thing that emerged in the history of human kind. Well, I believe your words clearly reflect the way your brain works - or not  - not others'.

 surely you must be trolling. 

Capitalismn is the reason you got shoes you dont make yourself. Its the reason you can buy food in a store instead of growing them yourself. its the reason you got a computer, internet, and games like Hearthstone. Capitalismn is the main reason for prosperity in the western countries. sure some are poor, but please do direct me to a country with no poor, where all are equal.

 Typical capitalist, who only thinks the other option is communism. If you think the amount of money you pay worth for obtaining those worthless cards that you disenchant straight away, then continue to make Blizzard more and more rich and be happy with the stupid system that is imposed upon us.

I find the game more rock, paper, scissors than ever. I play miracle rogue a beat easily all decks but aggro. I play reno and beat all decks but jade. And I don't play aggro but this archetype beats all excepting reno.

I understand OP at least.

PD: seems very good when you have a 24/6 mana wyrm and the pirate warrior only can concede xD 

Quote from aleathas >>

Quote from Zkaletus >>

Bro, it's the first two days of meta. For all you know Pirate warrior's a fad and in a few weeks we'll never see it again.

 It is not only about pirate warriors. In fact, my games were fair against warriors. This thread is about, you are no longer allowed to play the type of deck that you like, but rather you are literally forced to choose a deck that has at least a potential against those broken ones.

Quote from aleathas >>

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Quote from Zkaletus >>

Bro, it's the first two days of meta. For all you know Pirate warrior's a fad and in a few weeks we'll never see it again.

 This, so much this. Do people remember Old Gods release? We're going to get the same kind of shake-up in the Spring as we did in Standard, the same kind of shake-up we did after Kara, and the same kind of shake-up we're seeing after Gadgetzan with each one having a large/small impact based on the number of different cards rotating in or out.

This is a meta in the sense that this is what ladder currently looks like, but in no way should this going to reflect the end result of what people would consider the Gadgetzan meta. Remember when N'Zoth Paladin and C'thun Druid were the scourge of the ladder? How did that turn out?

 I also played in those metas. AGAIN, this is not about how strong the decks are. This is about how the mechanic is BROKEN. Priest was also weak against other previous dominating classes but at least with proper order and some luck, there were games that I had won because there was a POSSIBILITY, which no longer exists in this meta. I never complained about how a type of deck might counter another one, in fact that makes sense but at the moment no current priest deck can possibly defeat jade druids unless the druid player is so newbie. I won many games with my Reno priest in this meta so it is not about just keep encountering warriors or druids. As I had mentioned the game has become pay to win. I bought 40 packs and got only 1 legendary out of it. This is nothing but an insult. I also like HS but can no longer tolerate Blizzard.

Quote from aleathas >>

 Oh boys. Let me put it this way. First of all, for the first two days of meta, I played HS more than 20+ hours as I was so excited about it and managed to reach Rank 8 as a Priest Player. The point of my OP is NOT to demonstrate how strong the jade mechanic is. It is about the way the HS goes. People say like oh this counters this and that counters that. Of course, some sort of decks will always an advantage over others and this totally makes sense, in fact I like the idea of it, YET as the new expansion arrived, the winner of the matches are already determined before turn 1. If you are aggro against Jade, you most likely win, if you are jade against control, you win or if you are control, you are probably gonna win against pirate if you draw perfectly - with taunts, early board clear or heal. Besides, there were some people out here that tells me to learn the game. Well, I played and tested every single priest deck out there for two years. (Even tried OTK priest and it was indeed the only game that I have won against a good jade idol druid player and I was a bit lucky as he didn't go for armor with Feral Rage.). So I feel obligated to repeat myself here. It is not about how strong certain type of decks against Priests. For instance, OTK decks were also good against Priests such as anyfhing can happen Pally, and I never complained about that since there were certain moves that you had to such as Entombing Warleader and pray that your opponent will not draw third or fourth anyfhing. 

  This is NOT how HS supposed to be. So it is entirely a black or white at the moment. The type of deck you play has become much more important and determining than the though/skill or RNG that you put into the game to win. Besides, it is just so easy to design such a mechanic: X totally counters Y, Y totally counters Z and Z totally counters X. Terrible. 

  And lastly, for those, who believe 1 legendary out of 40 packs is normal, I have nothing to say to you. You clearly never opened a pack two years ago, the amount of good card that you could get was much fair, here I merely got duplicates and had 1.2k dust to earn through disenchanting, despite the fact that it was my first MSG pack opening.

Quote from aleathas >>

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Quote from whythemy >>

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Quote from whythemy >>

Instead of seeing the ladder as a playground where you can play a variety of decks, why not see it for what it is: people playing the most efficient decks they can find with the singular purpose of being better than the opponent they face. Playing whatever deck you want, that's what casual is for. You will find a variety of decks and the feeling of competition is almost completely gone.

However, you seem to believe that playing on a competitive ladder means that you will not face players who are trying to be pragmatic. This belief is dissonant with what ladder rewards, which is efficiency of play. The problem is your perception of the way things are versus reality. You should choose to see ladder as a competitive experience and choose to funnel your energy and your gameplay into being more efficient than your opponents.

"Efficiency of play", "the way things are versus reality", "funnel your energy". Oh God. Capitalist language applied to games. It's all because of the virus of e-sports and the business that surrounds it. You don't play to have fun anymore, you play for efficiency.  

It's not Hearthstone, it's the human race. We take our tiny, innocent pleasures and corrupt them to the extreme.

 

Well, Blizzard is a company, their products are designed to make money and entice consumers, and they exist in a capitalist nation, the USA. Further, this game, like all games, is designed to be won and excelled at. That is, actually, the joy that comes from the play. Competition as play is something inherent in our nature. I'm unsure why you are so surprised that it exists. In fact, I'm unsure what you are communicating in your response other than a lack of comprehension of facts.

 i have this image in my head of OP being on a beach building a sand castle and then someone comes up next to him and builds a bigger more impressive sand castle and OP loses his shit and starts ranting about capitalism and tries to knock down the better sand castle "muh designspace!"

  Funny story, I give you that. Capitalism is the most diabolical thing that emerged in the history of human kind. Well, I believe your words clearly reflect the way your brain works - or not  - not others'.

Quote from aleathas >>

Hey guys. First, let me mention that this is not a whining post. If you think that this meta is not broken, then you have no idea how the HS mechanic supposed to work - at least properly. I have been playing priest for two years - since beta and although I was always aware that the class was bad, I still could enjoy the game and in fact recently posted a shadow priest deck that got over 100+ likes.

 The solution is simple stop playing hearthstone. Not only that the game is broken as hell thanks to jade idol cancer, which also proves how unprofessional the Blizzard game developers are, but also the game has become more like a pay to win, as you have to buy hundreds of packs to get the necessary cards to try new mechanics, a.k.a. Capitalism.

  Don't even bother replying how to counter jade idol by playing aggro since this logic only helps awful game designers and certainly doesn't help Hearthstone community.

  Anyway I am off until these two issues are fixed and PROTESTing Blizzard for it. 

  Enjoy(!) your ranked games against endless jade idols and 5 turn pirate warriors.

  Edit: I had 4866 wins for Play mode and 3162 wins for Arena. Just added the photo to indicate that I am experienced enough in Hearthstone to complain about the direction that it goes.

Quote from Junus10000 >>

Quote from Maukiepaukie >>

I hate the current meta aswell, especially pirate warrior.

But I won't stop playing Hearthstone. I admit that I'm simply addicted to the game.

I will never, ever resort to playing cancer though.

 This is my case. I wont play aggro just because its boring as hell, just like Jade Idol Druid, too boring.

I play to have fun, and i have fun with Renolock, Reno Mage, Dragon Priest, Buffadin, Buff Hunter and such stuff. I'll keep playing them, and i couldnt care less if i lose, but when i win it was totally worth it.

Quote from BeaWolf >>

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Quote from whythemy >>

Instead of seeing the ladder as a playground where you can play a variety of decks, why not see it for what it is: people playing the most efficient decks they can find with the singular purpose of being better than the opponent they face. Playing whatever deck you want, that's what casual is for. You will find a variety of decks and the feeling of competition is almost completely gone.

However, you seem to believe that playing on a competitive ladder means that you will not face players who are trying to be pragmatic. This belief is dissonant with what ladder rewards, which is efficiency of play. The problem is your perception of the way things are versus reality. You should choose to see ladder as a competitive experience and choose to funnel your energy and your gameplay into being more efficient than your opponents.

"Efficiency of play", "the way things are versus reality", "funnel your energy". Oh God. Capitalist language applied to games. It's all because of the virus of e-sports and the business that surrounds it. You don't play to have fun anymore, you play for efficiency.  

It's not Hearthstone, it's the human race. We take our tiny, innocent pleasures and corrupt them to the extreme.

 

Well, Blizzard is a company, their products are designed to make money and entice consumers, and they exist in a capitalist nation, the USA. Further, this game, like all games, is designed to be won and excelled at. That is, actually, the joy that comes from the play. Competition as play is something inherent in our nature. I'm unsure why you are so surprised that it exists. In fact, I'm unsure what you are communicating in your response other than a lack of comprehension of facts.

 i have this image in my head of OP being on a beach building a sand castle and then someone comes up next to him and builds a bigger more impressive sand castle and OP loses his shit and starts ranting about capitalism and tries to knock down the better sand castle "muh designspace!"

  Funny story, I give you that. Capitalism is the most diabolical thing that emerged in the history of human kind. Well, I believe your words clearly reflect the way your brain works - or not  - not others'.

 surely you must be trolling. 

Capitalismn is the reason you got shoes you dont make yourself. Its the reason you can buy food in a store instead of growing them yourself. its the reason you got a computer, internet, and games like Hearthstone. Capitalismn is the main reason for prosperity in the western countries. sure some are poor, but please do direct me to a country with no poor, where all are equal.

 Typical capitalist, who only thinks the other option is communism. If you think the amount of money you pay worth for obtaining those worthless cards that you disenchant straight away, then continue to make Blizzard more and more rich and be happy with the stupid system that is imposed upon us.

 lol, wow just...  wow.. 

The thing is, capitalism is not a goverment form, so capitalism and communism cant be compared at all. you are looking for words like democracy, monarchy, dictatorship and the like if you want to compare communism. Capitalism on the other hand happens all around us, every single day, no matter what goverment form you might live in. Capitalism is the reason the cab driver bothers picking you up. its the reason diabetics can get thier medicine and the reason you got power for your light bulbs or computer.

Its totaly fine by me, you dislike capitalism, but unless you move to a very isolated place and learn to get by using nothing but your own hands I can hardly see how you would avoid capitalism.

Quote from bobknobslobr >>

Quote from whythemy >>

Quote from Dahkss >>

Quote from whythemy >>

Instead of seeing the ladder as a playground where you can play a variety of decks, why not see it for what it is: people playing the most efficient decks they can find with the singular purpose of being better than the opponent they face. Playing whatever deck you want, that's what casual is for. You will find a variety of decks and the feeling of competition is almost completely gone.

However, you seem to believe that playing on a competitive ladder means that you will not face players who are trying to be pragmatic. This belief is dissonant with what ladder rewards, which is efficiency of play. The problem is your perception of the way things are versus reality. You should choose to see ladder as a competitive experience and choose to funnel your energy and your gameplay into being more efficient than your opponents.

"Efficiency of play", "the way things are versus reality", "funnel your energy". Oh God. Capitalist language applied to games. It's all because of the virus of e-sports and the business that surrounds it. You don't play to have fun anymore, you play for efficiency.  

It's not Hearthstone, it's the human race. We take our tiny, innocent pleasures and corrupt them to the extreme.

 

Well, Blizzard is a company, their products are designed to make money and entice consumers, and they exist in a capitalist nation, the USA. Further, this game, like all games, is designed to be won and excelled at. That is, actually, the joy that comes from the play. Competition as play is something inherent in our nature. I'm unsure why you are so surprised that it exists. In fact, I'm unsure what you are communicating in your response other than a lack of comprehension of facts.

 i have this image in my head of OP being on a beach building a sand castle and then someone comes up next to him and builds a bigger more impressive sand castle and OP loses his shit and starts ranting about capitalism and tries to knock down the better sand castle "muh designspace!"

Quote from BeaWolf >>

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Quote from aleathas >>

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Quote from whythemy >>

Quote from Dahkss >>

Quote from whythemy >>

Instead of seeing the ladder as a playground where you can play a variety of decks, why not see it for what it is: people playing the most efficient decks they can find with the singular purpose of being better than the opponent they face. Playing whatever deck you want, that's what casual is for. You will find a variety of decks and the feeling of competition is almost completely gone.

However, you seem to believe that playing on a competitive ladder means that you will not face players who are trying to be pragmatic. This belief is dissonant with what ladder rewards, which is efficiency of play. The problem is your perception of the way things are versus reality. You should choose to see ladder as a competitive experience and choose to funnel your energy and your gameplay into being more efficient than your opponents.

"Efficiency of play", "the way things are versus reality", "funnel your energy". Oh God. Capitalist language applied to games. It's all because of the virus of e-sports and the business that surrounds it. You don't play to have fun anymore, you play for efficiency.  

It's not Hearthstone, it's the human race. We take our tiny, innocent pleasures and corrupt them to the extreme.

 

Well, Blizzard is a company, their products are designed to make money and entice consumers, and they exist in a capitalist nation, the USA. Further, this game, like all games, is designed to be won and excelled at. That is, actually, the joy that comes from the play. Competition as play is something inherent in our nature. I'm unsure why you are so surprised that it exists. In fact, I'm unsure what you are communicating in your response other than a lack of comprehension of facts.

 i have this image in my head of OP being on a beach building a sand castle and then someone comes up next to him and builds a bigger more impressive sand castle and OP loses his shit and starts ranting about capitalism and tries to knock down the better sand castle "muh designspace!"

  Funny story, I give you that. Capitalism is the most diabolical thing that emerged in the history of human kind. Well, I believe your words clearly reflect the way your brain works - or not  - not others'.

 surely you must be trolling. 

Capitalismn is the reason you got shoes you dont make yourself. Its the reason you can buy food in a store instead of growing them yourself. its the reason you got a computer, internet, and games like Hearthstone. Capitalismn is the main reason for prosperity in the western countries. sure some are poor, but please do direct me to a country with no poor, where all are equal.

 Typical capitalist, who only thinks the other option is communism. If you think the amount of money you pay worth for obtaining those worthless cards that you disenchant straight away, then continue to make Blizzard more and more rich and be happy with the stupid system that is imposed upon us.

 lol, wow just...  wow.. 

The thing is, capitalism is not a goverment form, so capitalism and communism cant be compared at all. you are looking for words like democracy, monarchy, dictatorship and the like if you want to compare communism. Capitalism on the other hand happens all around us, every single day, no matter what goverment form you might live in. Capitalism is the reason the cab driver bothers picking you up. its the reason diabetics can get thier medicine and the reason you got power for your light bulbs or computer.

Its totaly fine by me, you dislike capitalism, but unless you move to a very isolated place and learn to get by using nothing but your own hands I can hardly see how you would avoid capitalism.

 Actually... Communism isn't a form of Government... It's an socioeconomic philosophy just like Capitalism is. So you can compare them. Communism sounds fair in theory. Capitalism sounds fair in theory. The reality of any 'system' is that the human element corrupts it... in Communism some people are "more equal" than others... In Capitalism, the system is skewed by those with power (money). So, the reality is neither idea is better in theory - but in practice Capitalism is often favourable. Aaaaaaaannnnyyyyyywwwwwaaaayyyy...

The meta is not bad because of Capitalism. The truth of the matter is that Hearthstone is a mathematically based game that does actually have optimal solutions from a statistical win rate standpoint. That means that whatever Blizzard do, there will always be an inbalance - there will always be a favoured deck... it's a chaotic system. The only way to have a 'pure' meta is for everything to be completely and perfectly balanced. Being a chaotic system, if anything is even slightly off then you get cancerisation... that is very difficult to get right. Then you factor 'fun' into it and it just gets a whole lot messier. How do you reconcile a 'fun mechanic' with a balanced system?

 I stand corrected :) however even in communist countries you see capitalism happen every single day, for reasons you mention yourself :)

it's difficult to calculate probability in hearthstone because of all the rng. you can dominate the game untill yogg shows up and then lose, or you just get crap minions from your discover cards etc.

The answer is combo decks - and how blizzard has slowly but surely decided that it needs to remove real combo decks as people be like "WTF 7 cards 30 dmg from the hand, this was not interactive". They have replaced them with 'curvestone'. Cards where you don't think about shit but just slap em down and like combo, they pay off later. C'thun...then jade idols.

Its no good guys, and though I admit I complained about the deck at the time, we need something like patron back. Actual skill.

Well, my best answer for these "Jade Druids" was Kabal Lackey into Counterspell as early as possible. If it happens turn 1 they usually concede. They are a very gruesome deck which can be beat with well thought out timing. Polymorph their Aya Blackpaw and that puts a dent in their game. This still is a very difficult deck to beat. I can see why a lot thinks it's cancerous. Also, face warriors are easy to beat with Demented Frostcaller. Just play defensively until you can get value out of it. Only bad thing is that you can't play decks you want anymore. You either play the OP deck for better win ratio's or play specific decks to counter them "barely" and lose to all others. That's hearthstone for you. If you really want to have fun, just go play wild format, there's all of Hearthstones arsenal at your fingertips. OP Dr.7. :)

Quote from aleathas >>

 This thread was not you to convience me to keep playing. Actually, the people like you are the cancer itself, who just replies to forums without even discussing the underlying reasons why such a topic is created in the first place. Blizzard is there to serve us, not the other way around. Hope, you soon realize that and bring up something interesting to argue instead of merely typing on keyboard with limited amount of vocabulary.

Quote from Sahgos>>

Capitalism is just a faster path to the elimination of material resource scarcity - which is the real villain here.  Communism attempts to mitigate resource scarcity by sharing everything equally amongst citizens.  The problem with communism though is it eliminates the motivation to improve the total amount of resources available.  Capitalism does not share resources equally but motivates citizens to increase their own (and society's) overall resources.  What was not foreseen is that eventually technology will allow for the elimination of resource scarcity (e.g., molecular nanotechnology and cheap manufacturing technologies such as 3D printing).  What will remain in terms of scarcity will be design creativity.  Looking into the even further flung future and the scarcity issue becomes computation capacity.  But that's a much more speculative scenario. 

Quote from Toxibrah >>

 And i´ve been playing NOTHING but midrange and control. 

Quote from Stitch >>

I hate this meta to, at least you didn't die at turn 5 against shaman so you had more potentionel to come back in the game, now I have only played like 2 cards and thos get ignored or rekt and i'm dead by turn 5. I lose a star in games of 4 min while when I win a game i takes around 10 min so its pretty frustrating.

Quote from BeaWolf >>

Quote from aleathas >>

Quote from Toxibrah >>

Of all the decks i´ve seen in MSG Jade druid must be one of the LEAST broken things. Hell, i´ve only lost ONE game to them in 13 total games. And i´ve been playing NOTHING but midrange and control.

The deck has NO pressure the first 4-6 turns, which is absurdly slow. Pirate warrior eats them alive, hunter destroy them, zoo lock destroys them, i haven´t lost a single time to them with my reno Krul leeroy deck. And it seems like an unfavorable matchup against Dragon priest. 

So what i ask of you is, which decks that are in the current meta does it actually counter?

 

  Jade idol is the most broken mechanics in the history of HS. Why? Not because it is super strong against everyone. It might get crushed by pirate - well only the decks that tries to counter pirates or mirrors stand a chance anyway - but is is about how it works. Control decks have absolutely no chance against jade druids because whole purpose of control decks is to survive and gain the control at the later phase of the game and at the moment that only benefits jade decks.

 I also play(ed) Reno Priest and as I had mentioned my games against warriors were even, although if you do not Reno and Exc. Evil early, you just loose. You mentioned ooze, well good luck with those oozes against reno locks and other controls. This is the problem with this meta, there are no balanced games exist.

 the amount of times people on this forum is using the words "Jade Idol crushes every control deck" the last few days are numbering countless, and it bothers me.

I have made a Shadow highlander priest deck that I enjoy alot and I havent lost a single game against Jade Druid yet. And I am neither the best deck bilder or player, but you know the opponents game plan, and you know it wont happend with any consintecy before turn 20 or so. you pretty much know it all so plan ahead. One game against Jade Druid I made a 10 mana potion with Kazakus on turn 4 because I was looking for an end game solution. got a potion that made all minions sheeps then deal 6 dmg to the board. waited for him to set up and vormit his board with his last auctioneer and cleared it the turn after. didnt even get to use Jackson that game.

Jade Rogues on the other hand is a far worse matchup. doable but much harder to counter due to raw value, and the fact that opponents allways seems to steal the good class cards....  

 

@Falco_HS; initially Anyfin was more even until it became more widespread knowledge that you could just drop the Warleaders alongside Pyro+Equality to avoid them being gobbled up. Anyfin might be favorable for Priest if the Anyfin pilot is misplaying, but at equal skill levels with both people knowing what to do it's pretty much impossible. It's not the end of the world to have Control Priest struggle with decks like that though, and that's my point with Jade Idol. Dragon Priest actually applies pressure so it's not like every combo deck sees Priest and gets a free ticket to goldfish.